minnie

Oh, mega. The irony of you not wanting or needing to go to meetings because of what your MIL says is too much. Because the tools I learned in al-anon helped me to know my own mind and make my own decisions.

If al-anon isn't for you after you've tried 6 meetings, then think about some counselling. Above all, please do yourself a favour and figure out why you got into this relatonship, why you stayed and why on earth you are trying to work on this relationship in advance of any recovery from hubby. You owe that much to yourself.

denny57

Venting is good, but it doesn't lead to personal growth IMO. There is nothing "official" about Al-Anon. In all honesty I have some people in different groups who do approach it as another religion or cult, if you will. Some of them even get frustrated if others are not falling into line with how they think recovery should be done. In the past, that would have been enough to make me not keep going back. Once I decided to really embrace the Al-Anon idea of "take what you like and leave the rest" I was able to work the program for my personal recovery. I am an unabashed fan of 12-step recovery.

megamysterioso

Thanks All and I may give it a try. I have looked up my area in the past for the closest meeting and it is about 30 miles away. I appreciate your advice and concern.

ASpouse

Do you want your H to attend AA or NA or both? If so, wouldn't that be cultish or cult like also?.

I have to ask, do you always take others word for things without investigating for yourself?

If you let the group know you are a beginner, then I'm sure they will be more than helpful and compassionate. You will have a group of people to vent to, and a sponsor who will know you better than you know yourself sometimes. Remember, they've all been where you are and are not critical nor do they make assumptions ....... IT'S SUPPORT, plain and simple until you can figure out the situation for yourself.

megamysterioso

Thanks Minnie. Here are the answers today:

1. Got into the relationship b/c my hubby and I do share bad past experiences with drinking and drugs. I was over mine and looking for a better life with someone that aspired for the same. I thought he could understand the importance of breaking free for a better life and not repeating the same mistakes and living in the misery. I thought he was ready and he was not.
2. I've stayed b/c I believed his promises of change and always thought that in time he would change.
3. I'm staying right now in lieu of recovery b/c I've come to terms with the fact that his promises to quit on his own mean nothing. I know he will only quit when he is ready and it may or may not be through AA or some other sort of program. I cannot force the issue, have no urge to and I think that even if he quit drinking today that our marriage would still be in trouble just considering how different our cores are. I am also staying in lieu of recovery b/c my version of what is "acceptable drinking" and many of yours may be different. I even told him the other day, "if you could just drink like I do, maybe a few on the weekends once a month when we're out being social and then just LEAVE IT THERE- but I KNOW you can't b/c you are an alcholic." I drink too, enjoy it and know that it is possible to not have something psycho happen every time one drinks. I can't be a hypocrite on this issue with him. If he keeps his drinking to a few on the weekends, I can actually live with that. He is really OK when he keeps it in moderation. However, I've been shown time and time again that he always goes back to the binge state of mind. I'm refusing to live through the binges. It's the Jerry Springer episodes that I cannot stand.

Hope that makes sense.

megamysterioso

Oh, let me clear up any misunderstanding. My MIL LOVES Al-Anon and has been a member for years. She never told me anything negative about it, but listening to her experiences with it, those conversations made me assume that it was sort of cultish. But we all know the famous saying of assumptions...

To assume is to make an @ss out of you and me.

pmaslan

With all of that said.....tell me again why are you still there?

ASpouse

mega, your husband is an addict and an alcoholic. In one sentence you say "if he can limit his drinking to ..........." and the next your saying you understand he can't because he is an alcoholic and in the next you say "but maybe on just weekends ....."

He can't! You can't flip/flop like this. He is an alcoholic and my question to you, if you decide to stay with him and if he gets into recovery, are you willing to not drink around him, have booze in your house or totally abstain from drinking while he is in the beginning stages of recovery? Many of us do, I did for my husband and I did lots of social stuff without him because he simply could not be around booze at that time.

Go to Al Anon mega ..... you will work on yourself from the inside out and not just externally as Denny mentioned before.

megamysterioso

Thanks guys. Patty, you make me think I'm a nutbag! And after reading those reasons, I kinda see where you're coming from. lol

Judy, yes, there is a lot of flip-flopping around in my language. I'm just trying to be as realistic as possible though. I'm done with buying into his promises. I know he won't stop completely any time soon and will more than like NEVER join AA. The reality is that he could possibly (am I deluding myself?) cut down and rid himself the binge factor, right? I mean- couldn't he possibly do this? I mean I quit the binge scenerios over 10 years ago. I did not have a program or work any steps.

I would be willing to quit drinking in his presense. It would be easy. I don't drink at home and never have had booze in my fridge as a single person. This is something I just don't do. We could find other activities that don't involve alcohol to enjoy. If there is alcohol at a social I want to attend, I'd go alone too.

ASpouse

Are you serious? Yes you most definitely are deluding yourself. Only he knows the answer to that question but from your description of his drinking and binges I'd say no he can't, but it's not for me to say.

You need help mega, more than you can get here that's for sure and I certainly will push back on things you type or post here that make absolutely no sense.

From the quote above, you are still deeply enmeshed in enabling and co-dependent behavior even though you speak as if you are not. You are, believe it or not, you are still stuck, hoping against hope. I hope you go to a meeting and see the reality of things for yourself over time.

LaTeeDa

If he is an alcoholic, then yes, he could probably do this, for a period of time....
Sounds like you are now questioning whether he really is or not.

Are you saying you are an alcoholic too?

L

pmaslan

I personally found it not worth it with my ex fiancee. When all was said and
done I just didn't want to stop drinking for him or anyone else.
I am very social....duh like you all haven't guessed that by now....
I enjoy wine and have several bottles in my home all the time.
It is not my fault he is an A, it is not my fault he will never be able to
drink in moderation. I choose to not want to live waiting for the other shoe
to drop, all my choices....selfish who knows just the way I feel.
Life is short, why should I give up things I can handle and enjoy for
someone who hasn't proven even to date that this is what he wants.
Your situation apprears to be a no win...just confused why you choose to
hang around when no apparent change is in the midst.....

megamysterioso

Hey guys and sorry to frustrate you Judy. Thanks La- he is an alcoholic and no, I never was. The only thing I've been addicted to is nicotine. Back in the day though, I was in full-on "party mode". I guess I just don't understand how he cannot do this as I do not understand people who only smoke a couple of cigarettes a week. Ok- that's a good analogy.

Ayers1995

Mega,
My MIL didn't give me good impressions with Alanon either. She just hasn't seemed supportive of that idea at all. I have had to do/and find my own resources. I have found alot of strength from this site, to vent but also to be told straight forward things... I hope that the meeting will be the same. Just more .... f2f... I guess.

She mentioned that co-dependent was really a broad variety of people. That anyone could be defined as a codie. I am sure both books are great. For me..either one would be a great start, as I have not read either. I read some of the preface for the Dance of Anger... it seemed interesting.

ASpouse

Your not frustrating me mega at all. You're bouncing all over the place, I used to be tha way too when I was in full enabler/co-dependent thinker mode. It goes with your disease.

pmaslan

That's why Alanon would be so helpful to you...you will learn just why your
H can't drink a couple and you will learn about the disease as well.

denny57

Maybe because he's an addict. It's not for any of us to decide. You have to decide what you're going to do about your life. I never thought about this, but maybe you don't believe he is an alcoholic. Maybe you're here looking for some answer to get him to stop bingeing. Lots of us walk into Al-Anon looking for tools to get our loved one sober. Always good for a laugh now.

megamysterioso

Thanks again everyone. I have thought about that before too Patty-- about why do I have to give up these things that I can handle and enjoy, etc.? That thought process seemed a bit selfish though- as my mother pointed out! I don't think it's wrong or selfish though. I mean- this is MY life too.

megamysterioso

No Denny- I wholeheartedly know he is an alcoholic. He admits that he is one. I just cannot wrap my head around a person's need to have that drink EVERY SINGLE day. I mean now that he's been trying to cope by "cutting down," he doesn't even start drinking until around 9PM and I'm thinking, "why bother?? It's 9PM, you'll have a few, **** them out and then pass out." What is the sense in this?

Reading what I just wrote, I can see how DUHHHH- it doesn't make sense and it's not supposed to!!! He's an alcoholic, it's a disease, I too smoke cigarettes every single day of my life...

sunshine003

mega, my husband does not drink everyday. He only drinks out of the house and when we are out or he is out. He also, only drinks about once or twice a month....just one night. But let me tell you that I am suprised he lives through how much he'll consume. I believe others would die in that one night, no kidding. I've never even seen him throw up or have alcohol poisoning. He has made all sorts of promises, bargins. He'll only drink beer, no liquor. He'll stop at a certain time. He'll stop after a certain number, etc. He has never stood by these promises/bargins....they were just words and tools to not have to face the music. Now, on a night that he drinks, he'll drink until he cannot talk in a way you'd understand....oh and he doesn't "pass out" either. Once he starts and gets into this mode, he drinks and drinks as if he's fitting in a months worth. He stays and stays out and once there isn't anything to do, he stays up at home, blah blah blah. Sometimes hes a happy drunk, sometimes he's disorderly. Never know what kind of night it'll be but I always can count on him drinking way past a normal persons limit. The next day he spends in bed....I believe still drunk and hungover. He's in bed because he feels so bad but he can't really sleep either. If he actually had to work (this has not happened) or do something,he's told me before that he'd have to drink to get straight....whatever that means? I believe even though he doesn't drink often, he is physically addicted. When I say often, I mean daily or even weekly. Most every time he drinks, some sort of chaos happens. Oh and once a year or twice a year, he'll get into some sort of trouble with his drinking.....arrested for disorderly conduct, bar fights....something. But that's always chalked up to a "boys weekend" where things got out of hand but somehow,he is the only one arrested for something or another.

My point of all this is I believe my husband could cut down and only drink a few for a while but it wouldn't take long before he was back to the same old same old and back up to binging this way. You know why? Because he isn't like me or those of us who aren't alcoholics....it's because he is an alcoholic. Whether he drinks daily or weekly or monthly, he isn't any more or less an alcoholic.

As far as I go, whether I stay with him or get away from him, I am not any less a person who thinks with a codependant mind. I am slowly starting to understand where this came from. It didn't start with my AH, it started LONG ago as a child. Things I learned, things that didn't develop the way they should have. I didn't have a terrible life. I am close to my mother to this day but my relationship with her isn't normal. I coped with her less than nurturing mothering by adapting thoughts that people without a codependant mind wouldn't have. I pushed my feelings aside because nobody was there to help me with them. She was unavailable. When problems did arise, she was always the "freak out" type of mom. Not physically but she would yell and explode. Then she'd hide to cool off and com eout trying ot be all nice as if nothing ever happened. Oh the familiar feeling of the rollarcoaster.

In therapy, I learned that as a person with a codepedant mind, I minimize things. I have trouble using the word abusive....so I say "less than nurturing." LOL. I have trouble saying someone is lying to me so I learned to say "less than honest." You see, my mom lied a lot too. Now, I am not blaming my mother. She did the best she could. I was a kid and did what I did to cope but now I'm an adult and those tools do not hold any usefulness, they cause me pain. So I have to learn how to be an emotionally healthy person all over again.

so do you. now, this came from somewhere inside of you....it doesn't have to be some sort of dramatic thing but somewhere. it probably didn't start with your husband so the point is, it won't end there either.