but ... but ... I still LOVE him/her ...

Old 03-05-2006, 02:11 PM
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but ... but ... I still LOVE him/her ...

I've said that SO many times over the years - and I've heard so many others say it - that when I ran into this article (link in red below) - I HAD to share it. Somethings REALLY hit home - maybe it'll help me open my eyes - regarding my family as well as my x-AH - - -

I hope a tidbit or 2 will help some of those reading this forum.


The Stockholm Syndrome


Bright Blessings,
Blue
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Old 03-05-2006, 02:16 PM
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Very interesting!!!
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Old 03-05-2006, 02:25 PM
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I've read quite a few different things about this (Stockholm Syndrome) and I truly feel that it's beneficial in many ways. I think, often times, it is true of codependants.
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Old 03-05-2006, 02:27 PM
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Thanks, BlueMoon Have wanted this info
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Old 03-05-2006, 03:46 PM
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bluemoon, thanks for that link.

so much of that hit home regarding this nightmare of a relationship i got myself into and couldn't for the longest time seem to get out of.
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Old 03-05-2006, 06:22 PM
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Here's a link that woke me up:
http://www.committment.com/goodhusband.html
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Old 03-05-2006, 07:59 PM
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Thanks Blue. There is also an interesting article entitled "Identifying Losers..." on the following website http://www.drjoecarver.com/
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Old 03-05-2006, 08:13 PM
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hmmmmmmm - the ouchy part could be reading it as a question - "AM *I* those things?"

good link! thank you!
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Old 03-05-2006, 09:46 PM
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Huh. According to the Good Husband one, my AH had all the earmarks of a perfect husband. Every single item on the list. Now what does that tell us?

What I'm going to take away from that is that I didn't do a bad job of checking him out first. I just don't know what went wrong afterwards. Maybe the list is missing items.
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Old 03-05-2006, 11:01 PM
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Mushroom - my ex was all of those things too. For a while.

Or is he an immature boy trying to maintain an image of being something he isn't?
But this was the reality. He portrayed everything on that list for long enough to get me hooked in, then gradually showed his true colours. How do I know? Because he started the same cycle with someone else 2 months after we split up. I am eternally grateful that I found his emails to her and also that she contacted me about 8 months later. To say it was chilling would be an understatement.
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Old 03-06-2006, 01:49 AM
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Holy schmoly !!!!!

I've read it in AA's big book or the 12 &12.
The alcoholic takes the family mentally and emotionally hostiage
and verious other ways AA addressed this or pionts out these
defects of charecter.

What I experinced in the passed 6-8 months. and the way I view
or feels about everything. I gotta let it sink in.
It's just been chaotic and I'm glade to just get some rest and still be alive.
Yet just reading about this syndrom , I can relate.

I don't know..I don't know...I don't know.....
I don't think, If I hate her there would be any good that can come
out of it.
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Old 03-06-2006, 03:44 AM
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What an informative website. I copied all of the articles on depression & treatment. Thank you so much for posting the link!!!
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Old 03-06-2006, 08:37 AM
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Hey there mushroom,

Originally Posted by mushroom
Huh. According to the Good Husband one, my AH had all the earmarks of a perfect husband. Every single item on the list. Now what does that tell us?

What I'm going to take away from that is that I didn't do a bad job of checking him out first. I just don't know what went wrong afterwards. Maybe the list is missing items.
I don't know how the disease works for you. The way it works with me is that it is a disease of "perception". My "codie-ism" changes the way my brain interprets the reality that my eyes see. I observe a behavior in the woman I love and that behavior is interpreted in a positive manner by my diseased brain. When I ask people who are wiser than me they look at me funny and comment that they interpret it a completely different way. My disease justifies her behavior, and I then make decision based on the _justifications_ instead of on the _observations_.

My wife was spending 10-12 hours a day on the phone and web talking to married men. She never wanted to meet the wives, or have all four of us go out and meet in real life. I justified her behavior as caused by her insecurities and fear of rejection. When I finally did meet the wives I discovered the husbands all had a long history of affairs. Eventually I discovered that my wife was having affairs with those husbands.

Mike :-)
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Old 03-06-2006, 11:13 AM
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mushroom -
"Huh. According to the Good Husband one, my AH had all the earmarks of a perfect husband. Every single item on the list. Now what does that tell us?"

Interesting - when I went back and re-read that list - it kinda reeks of passive/aggressiveness to me.

I think the answer may be in the Stockholm article:

"... It has been found that four situations or conditions are present that serve as a foundation for the development of Stockholm Syndrome. These four situations can be found in hostage, severe abuse, and abusive relationships:
The presence of a perceived threat to one’s physical or psychological survival and the belief that the abuser would carry out the threat.

The presence of a perceived small kindness from the abuser to the victim
Isolation from perspectives other than those of the abuser
The perceived inability to escape the situation... "

It's those "small kindnesses" that have always hooked me and kept me hooked - whether to my former AH - or to my alcoholic family.


nutz -
"Yet just reading about this syndrom , I can relate.

I don't know..I don't know...I don't know.....
I don't think, If I hate her there would be any good that can come out of it. "


I totally relate to the "I don't know ... " part!
Bits + pieces just really hit home for me - food for thought if nothing else.

I don't think the opposite of Love is Hate.
I think the opposite is closer to Apathy - and sometimes that feels ALOT like "Letting Go".


DesertEyes/Mike -
"My disease justifies her behavior, and I then make decision based on the _justifications_ instead of on the _observations_."

Yeah! That's it exactly!
It's like me reading the "Good Husband" article and thinking "Oh, how sweet ..."
Then going back the next day and thinking "Sounds damned manipulative to me!"
Which is more realistic??

I am learning that if I'm thinking "all good" or "all bad", I'm probably not quite sitting in the real world.

I did something that my family (mom + 4 siblings) did NOT like (to put it mildly!) It was a MAJOR something.
My punishment until I can "see the truth" (ie: THEIR side) is that they refuse to speak to me or have ANY contact with me.

I'm pretty sure that I could crawl/beg my way back into their good graces - IF I admit that it was ME who was wrong - and grovel and plead forgiveness.

I'm pretty sure that without my various support systems (including SR!), I will eventually believe that I miss my mommy more than I think I was right in what I did. That's who I've always been - pat me on the head and tell me I'm a good girl and I'm yours.

I no longer believe that's love.


Blessings,
Blue
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Old 03-06-2006, 12:19 PM
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That's weird as Dessert Eyes stated.... it's perception.
I'm being reminded again.
I'm reading a book at the moment..
Reclaiming your self esteem...recovery for co-dendency and other addtions
My perceptions...i'm not sure if it clear or not.
My perception plays a big part on how I live.

In Love is a chioce...the analogy used is
"I'm wearing a twisted, scratched pair of shades..."
I don't let everything or light in and don't see clearly.
Also kind of like looking thur those old soda bottles.

In AA, chapter 16..
" I have the glasses on backwards"

Yet it's all normal to me, becuase I'm in that state.
Even with the informations or data I have. When I'm
in that state , i don't even know it.
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Old 03-06-2006, 02:30 PM
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Yo Blue,

Being raised as a child in a "toxic family" is a _perfect_ example of Stockholm Syndrome. When I first bolted from my biological family I had it _bad_. Every now and then I get "echoes" of those old childhood fears in present day disguise. What I found most liberating about Stockholm is that all the insanity I felt inside of me was _forced_ upon me against my will. I was born healthy, happy and sane. I can live that way today if I choose to.

Mike :-)
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Old 03-06-2006, 06:10 PM
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I was born healthy, happy and sane. I can live that way today if I choose to.

What a concept hey??

I'm only just now learning the full extent of "family toxicity" - - -
part of me is relieved - another is terrified --> how the hell do I go about learning to BE healthy, happy + sane?!?!?

Answer --> baby steps Blue, baby steps.

Hard to not start wondering if maybe there REALLY ISN'T an elephant in the livingroom - after all - NO ONE ELSE in my family can see it!
MAYBE it really IS ME who's insane - not them???

Yeah, right. That's why I keep steping in elephant doo-doo up to my eyebrows - cuz the elephant's NOT THERE - - -


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