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Old 01-15-2003, 07:39 AM
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Is it cold in here?

Hello all,

I was just on Kittycat's thread talking about how I got through the worst of my anger with Rasputin. But I have this kind of new sensation that I also don't want to live with. Thoughts will be appreciated.

After a hiatus of some pretty normal human behavior, Rasputin pulled a very hurtful stunt on me at Christmas. Not his worst. Not the most financially damaging ever. But I think it must have cut me deeper than anything he's done so far. I was ticked at first... not monumentally. And POOF the anger was gone. Then I was hurt. This may sound weird, but I have never taken Rasputin's antics personally before. It was always HIS rottenness, he did it to everybody if they let him and it really wasn't a reflection on what he thought of me. This time it felt personal. I can't even explain why. It felt like he intended to hurt me. It did. Then POOF the hurt was gone. But what has replaced it is way outside anything I've ever experienced. It's coldness. I don't care that he intended to hurt me. His intent and actions mean nothing to me because he is nothing to me. Nothing. It's a strange and hollow feeling. Like a death.

Are anger and hurt more comfortable because they're more familiar? This not only feels strange, it feels BAD. Empty.

Dop
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Old 01-15-2003, 09:22 AM
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Dop,


I don't care that he intended to hurt me. His intent and actions mean nothing to me because he is nothing to me. Nothing. It's a strange and hollow feeling. Like a death.
Dop, what you are describing I understand,
for I too have been thru the same feelings. And it did come from
death. It's grief, and I still go thru it but to a lesser extent everytime. I never knew the steps of grief till I spoke to a
grief counselor about it. Here they are hope they help you
like they did me. 1. Denial 2.Anger 3.Depression 4.Acceptance.
Sometimes I am able to go through these phases rather fast,
other times I get stuck in one of them then have to look at why
am I stuck, usually it is because I have not completed the first step and am stuck in denial. When you say that this time it
felt personal. Heck every-time I get hurt whether from someone
I know or don't it feels personal, or I don't think it would hurt.
Still caring about someone yet trying not to sucks. I have had to work thru ambivalence many times. It's work. So is going thru grief and it hurts but it really does get better and better.
My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Blessings,
Vinnie
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Old 01-15-2003, 09:47 AM
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Wow Dop,

I know exactly what you are talking about. The night I left my son out in the cold I actually felt something die in me.

This is how I describe it. Death is separation. Detachment is separtation. Being set apart. In religious terms I believe this is the process of sactification. When we are separated from things of the world and then joined to God instead. I think it's the timing that makes us feel so cold. Seems the separation must come first. They went through the desert before they made it to the promise land. They were separated from everything they knew and then received the promise. The land of milk and honey.

Hugs,
MG
 
Old 01-15-2003, 10:21 AM
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i thank you all for this post and vinnie, for putting your finger right on it. grief, for the pain of life and the loss of love,i guess for once, i'm at a loss for words. i think jt should use this grief as a focus for the topic of week. thanks to all. i'm so sorry for your pain, but it is a bump in the road.
hugs from sugar
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Old 01-15-2003, 10:22 AM
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You've explained it exactly...

Dop:

I feel for you. This violation that you feel, whatever it was that he did, feels like it was meant to hurt. I have felt that same "death", and you are right....something has died. It's that trust in someone that you knew you could trust with your heart, soul, feelings, etc. I know....

Handling it just like the grief you have from the death of a person is a really good way to deal with it. These people are our friends, and their wisdom is astounding.

Hugs, and lots of prayers for you today...Lyn
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Old 01-15-2003, 01:11 PM
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Dear Dop,
Please consider yourself hugged!

Your are so honest.

That's what it takes for me to grow....

Maybe this is one of those times when a door closes and a window opens...
and it's hell in the hall....

then I pray for the window to open and complain about the draft...
I know today some pain is nessary for my spiritual growth but misery is oppsional(?)...

Hope you can hold on to these one-liners.

Sometimes they are all I can remember when I am in the hall.

Blessings
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Old 01-15-2003, 01:18 PM
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((((Dop))))

I had to take some time to collect myself here. You articulated an experience that I had years ago and like you it wasn't the biggest or the baddest....not even close.

Looking back I have no idea what I experienced but the closest I can come is what Pernell refers to as a paradigm shift. Dr Phil would call it a defining moment. I was not the same person before as after.

My situation was with Ward and it was something he said...not anything he did. And like you I have always felt that he just does what he does without any malice toward me, but this felt different. And I have never felt the same security since.

I regrouped and we have been together for 21 years. It is almost as though I lost my innocence, if you get my drift. And like you said...POOF, the hurt was gone. But I knew something that I never knew before.

This doesn't have to be the end, but that may be exactly what it is. It wasn't for me, but it was close. One thing I do know is I was wiser.

Hugs,
JT
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Old 01-15-2003, 01:37 PM
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dear dop, thanks again for the post.
i too understand that shift in the wind.
daffodil, i thank you for the one-liners, i have to keep my thoughts simple to find any clarity!
i will forever use the hell in the hall, and will bookmark as part of the road to recovery.
hugs from sugar
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Old 01-15-2003, 02:28 PM
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Hello Dop
feeling bad for you
that hollow empty feeling you describe
reminds me of a t.s. Elliot poem
I seem to remember a part of it
although its been a zillion ys. since school.
called the Hollow Men
"We are the hollow men, stuffed men,
head pieces filled with straw.
alas, our dried voices
as we whisper together...."
depressing it is
but I thought, as we whisper together
as we share our hope and our bad times
we help one another through despair
or share in the happiness
and feelings do change Dop and aren't always reliable
All is not lost !!
All is not death !!!
sometimes its just another hurdle to get to the next place
and that to me is realy - LIFE.

Many Hugs
liddy
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Old 01-15-2003, 05:45 PM
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Hi Dop

I've been in that cold room. I'm sorry that you are there now. I know what it feels like to grieve the loss of a relationship. Somewhere back in time, I realized that my ex (who sounds like he may be Rasputin's twin brother) was just not the man I married anymore.
When we got married he was healthy, and functional and sober for six years. A year later he was back after the drinking and started his descent into an abyss that he has yet to return from. I sometimes wonder where my friend went, and how he got so lost in the storm of his disease. But I can truly say that I don't know who this person is anymore. And that is a weird thing to say about someone I was married to. It's definately a grieving process.
Each evening, as it gets dark, I light a candle. And I take a moment to think about all the people who are in need of help and prayers as they make their way through troubled times. It's my way of sending some light back into the world. You, and all the good folks on this board are now a part of my nightly ritual of light. I hope that light finds it's way to all of you.
Peace,
Gabe
P.S. Note to Daffodil: The halls are SUCH hell. When I'm really frustrated, I can't figure out why the damn door and window are so far away from each other.
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Old 01-15-2003, 06:46 PM
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Hi Dop - I too have felt what you describe. I usually find that anger comes first, then hurt. I think that anger is "easier" because it is directed outwards. Hurt is directed inwards. I believe that under anger, there is always hurt. The best way that I have been able to define the emotion that you are feeling now is indifference.

Here's to happier days to you, and to all.

Love and hugs.
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Old 01-15-2003, 07:05 PM
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Dop

A similar thing happened with me and my feelings about my son. Somewhere along the line I changed. The anger, hurt, adreneline, and fear were gone, leaving a void, a sort of sad empty spot that I know I need to fill again with healthy things.

And there is a sadness attached to losing that which was familiar even if it was unhealthy. I'm not even sure of what I lost - my son is still around and in rehab right now. I just know that something has changed and I need to adjust.

The best I know of to do, for me, is to work my program, read and relax, and do nice things for myself just to make me feel better.

Wow, Dop, your posts always make me think and dig deep into my bag of emotions. Thank you.
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Old 01-15-2003, 09:31 PM
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Thanks everybody. I was getting nervous. I thought maybe I had detached without love.

I have known Rasputin for more than half of my life. I wouldn't have thought this possible, but suddenly I am able to imagine life without him. I think that was the click.
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Old 01-15-2003, 10:47 PM
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WOW,

What a very thought provoking thread. I have experienced the feeling you're talking about too, but probably to a far lesser degree. I have a feeling it's going to happen a number of times until it's effects are the same.

I described it as indifference too but it's a form of surrender, an "I give up." I think all of us in the back of our minds have some hope that the A in our lives will get sober and everyone will live happily ever after. Then I think sometimes, there's this defining moment, when you finally realize, not this A and not in this life.
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Old 01-16-2003, 12:06 AM
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Searching I think the "I give up" phrase is a good one.

The grief is so much deeper than just giving up on a person, at least for me.

It was wanting something I never had. A disfunctional childish need that was never met and could never be met as an adult. The need to love was just as great as the need to be loved. It doesn't work in my adult life and couldn't be filled.

The need to fix what I loved that was never filled.

What is there after you give up? It's a missing piece in your development. How do you live with a missing peice in your development. How do you develop what was never developed in a healthy way.

I think the HP is the answer when we come to him in a childlike way and let Him heal and re-develop us.

This is severe wounding that needs devine intervention. Not something I can do myself.

Thanks and hugs to all,
MG

Last edited by Morning Glory; 01-16-2003 at 12:09 AM.
 
Old 01-16-2003, 05:55 AM
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Thanks for this topic, I wrote "I Give Up" a few minutes ago in my post. Yes, this is exactly what it is like, a paradigm shift, "not this A, not in this life". And yes, I need to go to God and let him fix what is broken inside me.
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Old 01-16-2003, 05:59 AM
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mg,
your post takes my breath away. clarity
hugs from sugar
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Old 01-16-2003, 08:10 AM
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Originally posted by Morning Glory

The need to love was just as great as the need to be loved. It doesn't work in my adult life and couldn't be filled. The need to fix what I loved that was never filled.
This is the way it works for me. You have a much deeper spiritual connection than I do so you may feel differently, but that's OK.

I think that by having a relationship with god, through prayre, and accepting gods unconditional love you learn to love yourself. The need is to fix yourself. By acceptiong hp it fills the void that we tried to fill wth people places and things outside ourselves. These things will always fail us because we are searching for complete unconditional love that our parents should have given us that no one or nothing else can give (and we shouldn't expect them too), except hp. Once I surrender to this I become filled up by the love I have in my heart knowing that god always loves me no matter what.

However, for me.....that was only the beginning. That process brought me to a place where I could begin to parent myself, believe in myself, feel proud of myself, and enjoy my own company. If everyone around me told me I was stupid, I thought well then I must be stupid, god still loves me, but I'm stupid.

God fills up my heart with love so I feel worthy enough to fix myself. When I do that, I know I'm not stupid and that's enough. I don't even have to tell all the people around me because they don't define me.
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Old 01-16-2003, 09:14 AM
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OH MY!!!!

Okay so that is what i can call what i am feeling???? Cause i do feel like something has died in side me.. I feel as thou i am grieving for someone. but who??? for MY A or for me? or for both or for the relationship we had that will no longer be the same? yeah i think that is it.. for the relationship.because from here on out it is all diff. when my A does something that makes me wonder or makes me mad... I no longer feel anything. this last time has made me numb.. but unfortunatly it has made me numb to alot of feelings not just hurt.. but love and trust and condsideration.. i sit here and read these. and cry... cause i realise that i dont like the person i have turned into because of my A's ways. i feel as thou i am now a untrusting uncaring and quite selfcentered. i guess i feel like i have done everything to help him... and left my own feelings of hurt and anger and disappointment take over me... Well this is why i need time to heal. To get back to the person i was.. the person i liked being. the wife of my husband. Not the spy over the addict.


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Old 01-16-2003, 09:16 AM
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Good Morning, WOW! You all hit my reality on the head.

My H.P. is the source of Unconditional Love and all I can do is work at practicing it with everyone in my life...

Now, you all know why my avatar has a headache! She isn't hung over she's just been thinkin' so hard....lol.

Sunbeams and Blessings
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