Tredding

Hi Everyone,
I am new here. I am not sure what exactly I am looking for by posting here. The last few weeks I have been slapped into the reality of that my husband is more than likely an alcoholic, definately a problem drinker, I have been reading up on codependency(a word i never really understood and needs a new name) and although the complex and confusing descriptions do not totally describe me, I feel I am a codependant to some degree(possibly more than I realize yet), and I have been studing the 12 steps. i find everything so overwhelming right now and I am feeling very alone.

I came to be here, because of "Marriage Builders". I don't know if anyone is familiar with that site. It is a great site with a forum designed much like this one with lots of great people and help. I went there looking for help for my marriage, which has just deteriorated over the years, to the point that I don't feel much towards my husband other than friendship, and even that is peppered with feelings of dislike. I was looking for advice on how to approach my husband on working on our marriage, via the site and marriage counseling. The people there quickly zoned in on a comment I made about his drinking, and the thread just took off in that direction. IF you want to read my story there, the URLs of my two threads are:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt...page=3#2923310
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt...page=1#2925437

According to the info there and counselors, you can't address marrital issues and work on them if addiction is an issue, that must be dealt with first(elephant in the room). So first I struggled with defining whether he was or not, and If you read the threads at MB(a great site and may benefit alot of people here) I finnally came to terms with the fact that he is, but he is a middle stage alcoholic(according to the book UNDER THE INFLUENCE) so I find it hard to relate to others posting here because my H is not a raging, falling down, blacking out alcoholic. So I am directed to al-anon, which I have not had the courage to attend yet, and i know it is probably the best place to start though.

Which brings me to codependancy. So I try to learn what that even means. I bought 4 books on the subject including two of Melody Beatties, which I have seen mentioned here(great books). So now i find another denial i have to face because i see myself in these books. Ans see that Regardless of being married to an alcoholic or not, one can be a codependant, and its a "disease" of sorts of its own. I suspect i was one before I met my husband. So now i feel I have two things two struggle through before I can even begin to approach my marrital problems, and not even knowing that if these things are addressed
my marriage will be worth saving or salvagable. What you want and love at 20 isn't always what you want and love at 40, but i can't walk away till I have tried. And no matter what, with all this codependancy stuff I realize that has to be addressed no matter what.

Which brings me to the twelve steps. I keep reading and learning but it all seems so vague and overwhelming, i am gaining understanding but i have yet to "do" the steps, do i begin with # one? I felt more compelled to jump into step 4, but then realized I have alot of issues i never really paid attention to(I was intellectually aware of them but though t I was unaffected) and i am pretty sure i need a proffesional counselor. I read alot of explainations a nd results of the steps but not actual examples of "how".

So here i am, still struggling with that last 1% that thinks maybe my husband isn't an alcoholic, the realization of being a codependant and coming to terms with that(very very hard to admit), looking for a meeting to go to, searching for a councelor, feeling stressed about keeping it all from my husband(I don't like feeling deceitful), worring about my kids in all this, and finding time to do the steps.

I am just feeling alone and overwhelmed i guess. I would really appreciate anyone's input who relates to my story, has experience or info on codependancy, how to find a good counselor, insite into the steps. How do i go through each day in a crummy marriage, while I work on this stuff. My husband tries to hug and kiss me and I hate it, it's not that we go around screaming and yelling(well sometimes) or anything but its not fulfilling, loving, or happy. I do not confront or acknowledge his drinking, haven't in a long time cuz I can't stand fighting anymore, I don't have the energy, and it acomplishes nothing but broken promises. I wanted so badly to work on our marriage(taking responsibility for my part) and start feeling better, and fall in love with him again or just walk away, now I feel trapped. And each day that goes by is another day my kids are affected.

There is an al-anon meeting in my town tommorrow morning but i am terrified to go.

Thanks for reading as i know this is quite long.

TD

gelfling

Hi Tredding,

Welcome to SR...you're not alone anymore. Mounds of wisdom to be gotten from this site. I must say BRAVO to the folks at MB for recognizing the alcoholism. If that's in your life, there is no way a couple can have a happy relationship together. Always someone unhappy or miserable.

Alanon...great start. The first meeting is scary for a lot of folks. But give it at least 6 tries. If you don't like that meeting, find another. And if you're still not happy, they promise to give you your misery back. Yes, do the steps in sequence. You'll learn an awful lot about yourself. Kind of funny how you're willing to do step 4 first. That's the one step I've avoided doing for the last 2 years. An awful lot of pain and fear there for me. But I am doing a step a month, with the hope of learning everything I can before moving on to the next one. Don't overwhelm yourself. One thing at a time. This isn't going to resolve itself overnight. And you're going to discover there's a whole lot more going on than you're even aware of.

Stick around. You're going to be in for the education of your life.

zoe

Good Morning Tredding
I am with you. My H is also a problem drinker (or had been ). We have gone round and round about the alcohol and plans for divorce for years now and I have come to realize that all that has gone on in the past was due to his immaturity. We are both 40 and it took him alot longer to mature than me. We tried counselors to no avail, and rehab befor we were married, the last didn't take. My H, since he supposedly stopped drinking a year ago, has told me that he just had not been ready to quit drinking, he had always thought " Oh she's just mad, she'll get over it and I can start drinking, lyeing, ignoring my wife and kids, and do whatever I want with my buddies. He thought this way because I led him to believe that he could continue on with his behaviour. I am familiar with the MB site and am making use of it with my H. He tried the same old "Well I have not taken a drink for months" and thought that would work. It didn't. I told him that's great, I am happy for you, we still have alot of work to do befor I can really trust you again if ever. I did not push the MB, I mentioned it once and he agreed to do the work. I waited for about 4 months for him to say he was ready and when he didn't I pointed out to him that I was waiting for him to start the process. I was not about to waste my time and energy on something that was not going to happen and I was not going to set myself up for disappointment, all he had to do was let me know when he wanted to start. He knows that I am still on the fence about leaving to start a life without him and he is doing his part with the questionaires. I have also seen improvement with the way we talk to each other. We no longer do only what he wants and he spends all his free time with me and the kids. He has become very attentive to my needs and I try to do the same without being resentfull.
I tried alanon but it was not for me and he is not in AA. I think what has made the biggest difference in our case has been MB. That being said we would not have come this far with the process if alcohol and drugs were involved. We are only a couple of months into MB and I am still not totally trusting of his motives, maybe this is just another way of placating me but if it is he is sure putting alot of effort into it.
After 16 yrs of marriage things are not going to be put right in just a few months and they may never be. I don't know if any love bank deposits will make a difference at this point. On most days I do not love my H. I need to work on letting go of what has gone on before and trust in us again. I would really like to just give up and leave but I can see progress due in large part to MB.
I wish you the best.
Zoe

rooroo

Welcome! My H was not a falling down drunk or abusive etc, but the drinking was definately there. Definately go Ala-non. It does bring to light a lot of issues. Like the others will tell you start with step 1 first. It was really hard for me to accept this step. Think I was there for several months and I still "relapse" right back to step one. I have started to gain a little serenity in my life. I think it is going to take awhile but I try to remember one day at a time. This is all I can do right now and I am fine with this.

Tredding

Hi all,
Thanks for the input and kind words and the welcome.

Kathy, your words "you are not alone anymore" sent me bawling, some sort of release, and really touched me, I am not sure why it made me cry. Thanks for the advice on the steps, i know step 4 is usually avoided, I don't know why I feel like jumping in to that, maybe i just want to get in and get dirty and get through it so i can heal, like its that easy right..LOL.. I am an all or nothing person and i have to slow down and go through the process, no quick fix, and if i am understanding all the books i am reading, you really have to wait for the process to lead you to the next step, is not your own conscious decision, we really don't understand what we need to do untill we progress through it? All the talk about undersatnding or being ready for a step when its time, if i don't get it know its because my attention needs to be on something else first? I just want to "fix" me, and fix me quick, but I know I can't. when you said "
there's a whole lot more going on than you're even aware of" I already realize that and welcome but fear it also. I just have to get the courage to go to a meeting, below i will tell you what happened when i tried to go yesterday.

Zoe,
I relate to your story alot. I sooo wanted to jump in and do the MB thing, i really think they and Harley are on to something there, unfortunately not only does alcoholism prevent their method from working, I also think codependancy issues do to. And this gets tricky because living MB principles and trying to become anti-codependant are a conflict.

I think you have to work on the codependancy before attempting MB or the MB principles could fuel codependancy. BUT unlike some of the material suggests there (with exception to addictions) trying to not be codependant wont work with trying to live the basic concepts at MB, I think you can only do the MB concepts honestly and without hurting yourself, once you have dealt with codependancy(if one is indeed a codependant). i think codependancy is misundestood there, because of detachment and "caring for ones self", it sounds selfish and not intimate, but if you study codependancy its not one extreme or the other its finding the healthy center of it all, and only then would a codependant be truley able to do the MB principles.

i think a lot of people there have codependancy issues but don't know it, whether its denial of their spouse being an alcoholic(or themselves) or just unaware of ,for what ever reason, they are a codependent, and just as they tell you MB wont work for addiction issues, MB wont work untill the codependecy is addressed..IMO. It almost seems like they want to embrace codependency there because you must be codependent to do the MB stuff, but I think it's a "interdependence" that you need to do MB, a seperate thing, and i am sure the lines are blurred.

I still post there, i think the people are great and offer me great support and advice even on these non-MB issues(I think they need a forum on alcoholism over there and this one needs to direct people over there for their marriage, its all entwined.) So, i want to stay a part of it over there, in hopes that one day i will get to work through the MB concepts.

Roo Roo, cute name....Thanks for the welcome and advice, i like to talk to others who's spouse sounds simular to mine, coming from a personality of right and wrong/black and white, it seems like it would all be easier if i had blaytant proof, falling down, drinking in the morning doing horrible stuff so i could just say "ah ha! YOu are the problem...get out, or okay this is what i am dealing with ...I need to do this, this and this..." I have already come to realize ...stop with the HIm... hIm ...HIm, work on me, its me I can do something about, stop blaming, it doesn't matter, i need to make myself feel better,

.......am i getting it people? I hope so. But it still helps to see someone elses similar circumstance for the unhealed codependants reassurance that I am doing the 'right' thing. Mealody Beatties books are amazing, and i am so grateful I am able to step out of denial and see myself in those books, even though it hurts a lot. I need to put a sticky note on my forehead "one day at a time", yep used to think it was corny, never thought about it much, a whole new meaning for me, big meaning.

Now i will tell you all, so i can have your insight, about the meeting i attempted to go to....I feel pathetic.....


The meeting was at 10:00 friday morning, although i didn't want to go to a meeting in my town, i work at night and there isn't many meetings around in the morning and this one fits right in to when my little guy is in preschool for 2 hours. So i got over it and said screw it, it'll be fine.

Trying not to force myself to deal with the whole thing at once but in steps, i think about one piece of it at a time so i won't throw up..." I'll just get ready so when i drop off my son i will be ready to go if i do" so i did, then i told myself, okay after i drop him off i'll just make the call to make sure of the time and place of the meeting, so I dropped him off and came home and called the al-anon number for the first time and got confirmation of the meeting, Catholic church basement at 10.

So i went to my computer at 9:20 and reread the posts here for encouragement. I told myself i could just drive there, no one was making me go in, just go down and check it out. So i started feeling strong and got in the car and drove there thinking, you know what, I think i can do it.

I pulled in and scoped it out, parked, desided i wasn't sure if thats where i should park, drove around the church, went out of the parking lot, drove back and parked in the same spot (LOL) sat there with the car running trying to figure out where i would go in to be in the basement, i didn't want to go through he front doors to the sanctuary, but couldn't see a possible door(the other doors had no handles to get in), so i drive around again and see there is a door on the other side of the church, i am parked near the back parking lot but am actually parked at the town hall next door. AS i drive around, I realize that parking lot was lined for holding cars in a funeral procession, so i go to pull out cuz it didn't seem like the right place to park, wouldn't ya know....here comes a funeral procession! i can't pull out, here comes the whole line of traffic from the procession and cars pulling in to attend the funeral. Freaks me out...lol.... The procession finnally passes and i can pull out, so i head down the street (the procession is turning around to line up and i can't get back to where i was, so i drive away......then i say .."nope, i got this far, i am going to the **** meeting" I turn around and go back. All kinds of people flooding in and cars and what not, i park(for the 3rd time) in the space next door at the town hall, i will wait to see if anyone looks like they are going to the meeting and what door they use, Everyone looks like they are dressed for a funeral and uses the front doors, which i am DEFINATELY not doing now!

Finally, at 10:15 a woman shows up and parks in back (yes i am feeling like a stalker at this point), she is dressed too casual for a uneral and is carrying two book bags, she walks around to the other side of the church and i can't see where she goes but that is where the door in question was. i will wait and see if more people come(she could just be a secretary or something going to work). i am in my car sweating and holding on to two little trinkets of my boys to remind myself party of why i was there and give me strength, i was also clutching onto an anklet my friend who i feel a bond with(the only one who knows of this) gave me,to remind me of her support, corny and dramatic i know....

Anyway a guy comes in a truck,definately not dressed for a funeral and has coffee in hand. Goes around the same way, okay this must be it, that must be the door, i can do this, i will wait for a few more people and i'll go in, another guy comes, jeans and coffee, okay this is definately it, another guy shows up, crap.. all guys so far, I start thinking OMG I never asked if it was an open meeting, maybe its just men, crap! So i sit there and wait. Finally a woman shows up, great okay i can do this, she greets another woman who pulls in, but then gets her two year old out of the car (kids at meetings?), play group? No, no one else has kids, okay TD ....go.... go... I am frozen and pathetic, Its just like the fear of heights, i can't get out of the car. okay, I turn off the ignition, I can do this, look theres another nice lady with a friendly face, oh what if its not the meeting, what if its the wrong door, all these people, a funeral going on, ..... I can't do it, I am PISSED, i am stronger than this!!! What the ****. It's 10:30, i sit there for another hour, trying not to bawl, but never go in .....AAAAAAAAHHHH . It s so pathetic, rediculous and..... actually freaking comical now.

On the upside, i saw no one I recognized. I finally left and got my son and went out to eat for lunch and overate and gave my son "too much lovin'" as he would say.

I cannot pin point exactly why i couldn;t get out and go in, i think I may have gone in if i had defnitive proof that That was the right door, then i waited so long i couldn't walk into the middle of the meeting with everyone staring at me, trust me i know how juvenile and imature this all sounds. Whats worse is that people descibe me as strong and conscientious, ambitious, sure of myself, head screwed on straight, confident, organized, competent and all that baloney thats really not true, i am a scared flippin 6 year old.

I was discusted with myself, but I didn't let myself go to that place" oh never mind everything fine you don't need to go anyway" you know.safe denial, where everythings just been overblown and it really fine...LOL

I think at one moment when i almost got out, I suddenly had that feeling of feeling silly, like I don't need this, I am not like them, what am i doing here, WHAT am I doing! But i slapped myself....LOL

I really think at the base of it all, it just some sort of insecurity paralyzing me, obviously an issue that needs to be delt with.

But in all honesty, maybe not quite as bad but even if it was a quilting group, i would have issues getting in there. when i started going back to church, my H is catholic and i am protestant so he wasn't going with me, so it took a lot of courage for me to go alone, it was a big deal for me to get up at xmas time in front of the church and do a little reading and light the advent wreath, but i wouldn't have done it if another newcomer to the church didn't do it with me.

Anyway thats the scoop!

Thanks for listening, WOW that was long

gelfling

Hi Tredding,

Don't give up on going to a meeting. It is a scary situation. I think we all went through the same thing. Keep trying, and look for other meetings in your area.

Also wanted to tell you, my husband was a very functional alcoholic. That's why in his head he didn't think he had a problem. He still worked and brought home "part" of his pay. The majority of it went to the bar...lucky them.

My favorite read is "Courage to Change". I got it from my meeting. Very inspiration daily readings.

Good luck!!!

denny57

Hi Tredding

I did that, too, for more than one meeting! At my first meeting I doubt I heard a thing that was said (except keep coming back) because my head was filled with "what am I doing at an Al-Anon meeting?"

I,too, had trinkets with me, including a "lucky" bracelet a girlfriend had given me. She was my only friend who from the start believed I needed the help - all my other friends took longer because they thought I was the friend who had everything together.

Now, my meetings are such an important part of my life I can barely remember those fear-filled first few times.

So, be brave. LOL

nutz

Welcome Tradding.
I got clean and sober in 1992.
I relapsed in sept 2005 from all the chaos.
I didn't know I was co-dependent, or comprehend what it ment.
So I started educating myself to the facts and accepting the truth.

One dose not have to be in a relationship with an active alki/addict
to be co-dependent. The same is true of an alki, the drugs and alcohol
are just the symtoms of the actual problem or skin deep, surface.

Yes , it is true. We can't recover if active addiction is involve.
That's is total madness and chaos.
Have you notice??...all the self help books, programs...etc.
All pretty much assume or pionts out that drugs&alcohol must
be eliminated from our lifes before we can even apply whatever
tools, concepts from the these books or program.

For me, I am at the piont where I've pretty much accept
certain truth. It dosen't matter if I seperate, re-marry
My partner will be or have certain traits.
No matter how much, I aviod or take certains steps to aviod such
a person. And of course all the damn experts wiht their oppinions
telling me I shouldn't do such things....Hello ???? Wtf , you think
I go out my way with full intentions of seeking madness . Logically, not.
But for some damn reason, I have a radar out for such a person.

But through all of this madness, somehow it forces me to look at
me and work on myself.
I keep it simple, wheather I'm an alki, addict or whatever labels.
Wheather I go to AA/NA, or not, or whatever....
I don't put poison into my system.
Right or wrong, media hype, socially acceptable or not.... poison is poison.

It's bad enough that my body produce certain chemicle naturally
and I'm a human. That makes me a creature of habits...simple truth.

Tredding

Hi denny,
Thanks for sharing that with me, there is something so comforting about someone else feeling the same as you.

As i am sure my friends do to, including my husband too I think, i think he thinks i am so confident and basically a rock, I think peoples view of me is basically distorted.

I am dreading Valentines day, I hate hwen I have to go buy a card, when i don't feel like i feel anything, or don't know what I am feeling. I am sopossed to procaim my love for my H, instead I want to throw up.

Hopefully wednesday i will try for a different meeting and if that doesn't happen, i will try again for the one i tried on friday. At any rate i bought a workbook on doing the steps and i am going to start step one. the book is called " a gentle path through the twleve steps" by Patrick Carnes. i was going to get the other workbook that goes with "facing codependance" but they only had the workbook and no t the regular book. But the one I got loooks good, lots of examples and lists and checklist to get you started, which is what I need, Its hard to dig down deep and look for stuff when you are not sur what you are looking for, but this book seems like it'll jump start the mind, and feelings, anyone used it?

thanks for listening

gelfling

Oh Tredding...you hate Valentines Day!!! It's my 30th anniversary and he's on the sh*t list at this point. When holidays come up and life isn't peachy and I feel I HAVE to get a card, I find one that's very vague...nothing lovey dovey.

Tredding

Thats what I did, Kathy, today as a matter of fact, a basic shoebox generic "funny" card. It makes me feel bad though because i know the lack of sentiment in the card will not be lost on him and he will probably get me a very mushy card, but thats all i can muster, i either feel angry at him, sad for him, or repulsed by him, i can't help it, Its so hard, i know he hurts too, but i have trouble feeling compassionate towards him because or my anger. I dread opening his card

Tredding

I know i am sopossed to be "detaching' but I have not learned how to do that yet, as my entire day yesterday was controled by my anger at him, another day with my kids that I don't get back, that no one enjoyed because I was stuck in angry mode, then i just got angry about being angry.

LeafOnTheWind

Dear tredding,

I'm trying to find the courage to go to an Al-Anon meeting, too. I left my stbxh in November. (Bad me - right before the holidays.) Was his words - "I want you out by Thanksgiving." that finally gave me the courage to do just that. Plus, I was tired of the daily anger and emotional abuse I was living with.

I think I really need to go to those meetings, because I'm dealing with feeling guilty for leaving him after 33 years. And now he's finally gotten help, but I don't want to go back and start the whole cycle again, because I came to the realization that he has always pushed me to a certain point, pulled back and reigned in his drinking, until I was pulled back in again, and then he'd start the whole circus all over again.

I finally decided to get off the merry-go-round.

Sorry about all the metaphors. Trying to make with the funny is my way of coping - one which the stbxh really hates. In fact, he hates a lot of things about me, he says.

I like me. Which is ultimately why I left.

We'll get through this, Tredding!

minnie

And that is where we find the strength.

Glad you found us Tredding and Leaf.

Kathy & Tredding - why on earth are you buying Valentine's cards if you don't want to celebrate? Is that not a teensy bit codie? Actually, isn't that really codie?

gelfling

Yes!!! BUT this year, I didn't get a card.

minnie

AAHHH!! Nice one, K. THAT'S recovery.

pmaslan

I can see there's a whole new group the greeting card companies can
market too.....they don't make the kind of card some folks deserve to get...lol

denny57

Keep going to those meetings. They will really help with this!

Valentine's Day is also my AH's birthday. So we never celebrated VDay. Of course, he also hated celebrating birthdays. In other words it was just plain old February 14 in our house.

Tredding

Leaf, have you read any books on codependency? If not, you should. The whole guilt about leaving is a red flag, you will probably see yourself in these books, and may help you get to a meeting.

I am trying again tomorrow(WED) to go to one, everyone wish me luck, send out your vibes to me so i can feel them when i sit outside that meeting trying to get the courage to go in.

Minnie, I am new to this Codie stuff, i have no idea why i am getting him one. He's not a monster or anyhting, i don't know, so he wont feel bad, because i am soposed too, cuz not getting one will only open the door to confrontation, I am not sure, i see where you are coming from, i don't feel like proclaiming my love for him but i am getting a card anyway, i don't want to hurt him. He doesn't deserve to be hurt, he's hurting already, although I am angry i try to remember it is a disease.

LeafOnTheWind

Thank you, Minnie. It took a long while for me to realize that I had no control over anything my husband did or felt. I could only control my reaction to it.

Tredding - Good luck on Wednesday. I've read Co-Dependent No More a couple of years ago. I need to reread it.