StandingStrong

And it's hard, depressing, and I'm just feeling the need to vent I guess.

As some of you may recall, my ah had a fling while we were seperated. I, too, was seeing someone. However, his fling entered my life by sending her friends to harrass me at work, ended up pregnant (Supposedly by ex boyfriend though as far as I know, no paternity test has been done), and then has come into my workplace (since my last post concerning her) where she told me "her side" of the story. Of which my ah denies - and so does my son as she involved him also. Anyways...that was just a quick downsized recap of the mess.

I had posted here about being a reactor to life. One of the members here pointed out the difference between proacter versus reactor. And then posted about blocking out all the noise (that ever present committee of voices in our heads) and said something to the effect of - either I could accept ah's fling or not. So, I took some time (It's been quite some time, lol) and really gave that some thought. And I can come to terms with the fling as I understand the "why's" of it happening, etc. However, I also have come to realize just what I can't accept. And that is where my needs come into play. My emotional needs.

This was all new to me. As I'm sure many of you can relate, I have always put my needs in the "not important" category, as I codependantly always put ah's needs ahead of my own and was too busy cleaning up ah's messes to have time for any of my own. So after the merry-go-round that I've been on this past year (and let me tell you, it's been a very confusing spinning ride - which my ah has been sober more of that year than not!!!) I narrowed down just what I needed from ah. Interesting enough, some of them he himself suggested some time back.

Anyways.......I asked for cell phone records from his phone for a certain period of time. I offered to pay for them. He agreed to it - but then after he (supposedly) called, they did not arrive. He supposedly called again, but still they never arrived. These cell phone records would answer alot of the questions I have in regards to who is telling me the truth. It's a simple way to prove it - and I'd have thought ah would be all for it - IF he was telling the truth.
I also asked him to call her and confront her on how she has treated me, how she has (supposedly) lied about things - including things she said in regards to one of my children, etc and allow me to listen in on the conversation.
I also asked that he email me about an event that took place. This was suggested by him - after I questioned something he said that had me wondering if he was lying about something. However, he said he typed the email up while offline but lost it when he went online. But he wouldn't re-type and re-send it.
My youngest son is having some issues with ah. He is not speaking to ah and not seeing him. While there are a few issues, one of them is that our son wants to know who the child belongs too that the fling gave birth too last month. I have tried to contact the flings ex at my son's request but I have been unable to get a hold of him (and honestly, I haven't tried too awfully hard). So, I asked ah if he was going to have a paternity test done to ease our son's mind.
And last of all, I asked my ah if he was going to be a responsible adult and father.
Of the 5 requests that I asked/made - he answered NO to the first 4 and YES to the last one. However, how responsible is it to allow your son to go through this without at least trying somehow to get the answer your son needs. If not submitting to a paternity test, why not find out if a test has been done with the ex? etc. And as I said, there are other issues that my son is going through concerning ah - as well as I am - at the way he's parenting our oldest son who lives with him. Regardless..............

I guess my point is that I do not understand why he would not do the things I asked if he had nothing to hide. Or if he was so sincere about wanting us to get back together, etc. He wants to move forward and says that I am trying to make him keep living his mistake by keeping a hold of this. However, I feel that I need the above things to find closure to the point that we could possibly begin again. I guess it's all in the way you look at it.
I've wondered and questioned myself many times if I'm asking too much, etc. however, I simply keep coming back to the fact that this is what I truly need. I know that we would never have the relationship that we could/should if the above issues are not addressed.
Ah has always been bad about creating messes and then not dealing with them. I've always cleaned up his messes - and I think the 22 months have proven that he's just not willing to deal with the issues as I've not cleaned them up for him. I made a list of all the things I've asked of him since he's moved out - and it was really eye-opening to see the list compared to what he has not done. Something about seeing it in black and white was just really something.
So I've come to the point where I just have to accept that ah is not going to do what I have asked him to do. That my emotional needs are still not going to be met. And that possibly, my son's meeds will not be met as well. That although ah is not drinking - this is one of those things that obviously hasn't changed. He may have tried to meet our needs in ways that he didn't before, but in times like this where the needs we have are important, he is failing to do what we need. It's been very depressing - a sad reality check.
And of course, when we've talked about it, he reverts back to the blame game. Doing the whole thing about how it's me that is keeping us apart, how I don't want us together, how I'm always finding excuses/reasons to keep us apart, etc. And I in turn am saying - You have a choice and you've made that choice.

So now, after being seperated for about 22 months and going through all that I've gone through....I guess my eyes have peeled back another layer of that onion. And like peeling an onion, it's been a little hard on the watering eyes. It's been a little raw, a little strong, and the layers keep peeling - only to reveal another layer. The reality is a bit hard to bear, I guess a part of me liked that world of hope - where the denial is not ever too far away - where the hope just keeps you going. And now, I know that the hope is not there anymore. He is making his choice. So that leaves me to make a choice - to accept the decision he has made and go on with my life. Or to swallow my needs once again to only go forward with such doubts, feelings of unimportance, etc. as I've done so many times before. And honestly, I just don't want to do that - I've been there, done that. And I'm a much wiser stronger person now than I was back then. And I deserve to know the truth, I deserve to have him confront her over what she has done to me, I deserve the email of the truth which he suggested, and my son deserves to have the answers for which his heart yearns. Funny really, I hadn't come to the point where that child really mattered anymore - I guess again, I had focused all my hope on ah himself. (It's laughable now I think about it as I had really not deemed the child important - and yet a few months ago - that was a major concern of mine!)

If you've reached this far in this very lengthy post, thank you. I guess I'm just feeling a little defeated right now. And a whole lot of empty.

sadface

I am going through a similiar situation, and I seemed to be in the same phase you are in. I wanted to hope, and wanted to believe. Can I ask you a question? Do you really need to know the truth? What will you do when you know the truth? In my case, I was fooling myself. Deep down I knew the truth. If it looks like he is hiding something chances are he is. My husband can tell me he is dying and I won't believe him. Not anymore. My husband and I have been separated for 13 mos. He is out of state for about a week now and you know what, I don't really miss him that much. I think about him once in awhile. Yes, we deserve the truth. We deserve a better life and a good man. I dont know about you but my husband is not it.

Beautiful

I call his behavior the "moving and shaking dance." He's moving around and shaking so fast that you can't keep up with him....or so he thinks. It's like getting an insurance claim paid from the company. They deny, lie, and manipulate the system so that you "think" you're getting somewhere when, in reality, you're going nowhere. Check's in the mail so you sit by the mailbox for weeks and it never arrives. That's a good waste of my life and the insurance company laughs all the way to the bank.

I understand your sadness. I'm not sure how old your son is but would think that your son's issue with his father is a separate issue of yours with AH and not part of the equation. To me, if you're anything less than a superstar athlete dancer prepared for the disco marathon, you may wish to reread your post. I think the answers are pretty plain. I can honestly hear the sadness.

Hugs.

paula a.

((((Standing))))
No wisdom from me, you seem to know what you need.
Love and Hugs,
Paula

LaTeeDa

I, like you, want to hope. Want things to be the way I want them to be. I constantly have to remind myself--don't listen to his words, listen to his actions. You know this already, but sometimes a little reminder helps. :-)

L

StandingStrong

Beautiful, my son is 15 years old. And yes, my son's issues with ah are seperate from mine. However, my son's needs are also my responsibility as a parent and therefore, they tend to run into my needs as well in the category of ah doing the right thing. Not for me persay, but for our son. As I told ah, I've held his relationships with his children together all of their lives and he is the one that really needs to be doing that.

Yes, I am saddened by ah's lack of effort in giving me what I want. It's not just about the truth - I think I'm pretty prepared for the truth. I guess maybe it comes down to validation. My needing the truth - but also for him to be willing to swallow his pride a little and do something unselfish for another (in this case, being me). To validate my importance to him, validate the love that he so freely speaks of. I'm really not sure how else to explain it.

I know that many people believe that if you have no expectations, then there will be no disappointment. I guess there are things that I still wish for, maybe things I do even still expect. Not just from ah, but from life in general. However, it's been disappointing to know that while we've seemed to have progressed in some areas...well, when it comes down to the nitty gritty, it's apparently been progressing because it's as old times. Ah giving me words and hoping I'd allow it all to blow over - and my having belief enough to stall by giving him time to do as he says he's going to do - when in reality, he's only just stalling me to what? win me over some more, manipulate me? I don't really know anymore.

Sometimes I re-read the IM conversations that we've had, thinking maybe I have pushed etc when I think about how he blames me. But in truth, I can't see it. I only see me telling him over and over again what I want - and then he twists it to me, ignores the issues, and then refuses to give me what I ask. In many ways, it's like the same old rollercoaster ride.

minnie

SS, ignore his words for a minute. What do his actions tell you?

StandingStrong

Well Minnie, that's the interesting thing. LOL.

He is much more thoughtful, more loving, more giving. Examples being that he's attentive and always asks about my day, my job, etc. He tried to show it by hugging me, holding my hand, etc. before I started withdrawing again. He's more giving as far as with gifts, with surprises like bringing me flowers, just calling me at work to wish me a good day, etc.

So, when I look at the actions - I see what he's trying to accomplish. As he points out, he's trying to rebuild our relationship, treat me as he should have all along, and move forward with me.

But I'd have to say it's the lack of actions that tend to be speaking to me as well.
Not dealing with his messes!!! Which ultimately mean being irresponsible in my book.

So I guess even with no words - and just the actions alone - well, I just see alot of the old behaviors still. Not saying that I expected him to be a completely changed person - but I guess I wanted him to grow up, be responsible, etc. and I just don't see that.

minnie

Tricky one.

Seems like he's not taking the actions you want him to take, because you do realise that deciding not to do something, or rather to do something else instead, is as much an action as doing it?

Personally, I wouldn't buy the story about the cell phone records not arriving, nor the email that was "lost". If that was the case, why not go back to square one, re-order the records and re-do the email? As for the OW - is that all finished now? Any repercussions from her? If so, I would wonder why you are trying to rake it all up again and create more drama.

I'm probably not the best person to be replying to this, actually, because I see a lot of that "relationship building" stuff as a bit phoney based on my own experience. And of course, that is just projection.

What does your gut say?

StandingStrong

quoting minnie:

Seems like he's not taking the actions you want him to take, because you do realise that deciding not to do something, or rather to do something else instead, is as much an action as doing it?

I hadn't ever actually thought of it that way. I guess I realized that "refusing" to do the action was an action though I referred to it as a lack of action.

Personally, I wouldn't buy the story about the cell phone records not arriving, nor the email that was "lost". If that was the case, why not go back to square one, re-order the records and re-do the email?

I don't buy it now. Supposedly he has called 2 times in total now. I was willing to accept that there really could have been a glitch the first time and the company didn't get them mailed. However, this being the second time - uh, nope. Not believing it now. As for the email, he just claimed that he was tired of going over and over and over this and my not letting disappear, etc. so he since he was tired of it, he wasn't going to type it up again. (See me rolling my eyes here)



As for the OW - is that all finished now? Any repercussions from her? If so, I would wonder why you are trying to rake it all up again and create more drama.

From what I understand, they have not spoken since July. However, she has been into where I work and has talked to me. And even when I she doesn't speak, I see her and I believe that she comes in my direction to make sure I see her - like letting her presence be known. The last few times, I've ignored her as I headed out of the public area as soon as I saw her. However, we had a major discussion in December (which was when she gave me "her side" of the story). Also, on that note, she had brought my son into it as well which is an issue for me.

Why bring up more drama? I think I'm wanting to refocus the drama onto ah. I believe that it's unfair that I've had to deal with this mess - and he has not, which in truth, I look at it as his mess. I also believe that it's the right thing to do in confronting her and sticking up for me! (validation of sorts) and I also believe that my son's need to know whose child that is should fall on ah's shoulders to find out - not mine. Again, he created this mess - he truly needs to deal with it.


I'm probably not the best person to be replying to this, actually, because I see a lot of that "relationship building" stuff as a bit phoney based on my own experience. And of course, that is just projection.

I believe that some relationship building stuff is a bit phoney. But some of it I believe. And I'm not going by what any in particular really says. I guess I"m just trying to get what I want/need. That sounds selfish, but I"ve truly never really asked for anything ever before. And I know that I really need some things.


What does your gut say?

My gut says that as always, he's avoiding issues.
That it's a matter of what I'm willing to sacrifice internally in my spirit and soul if I wish to keep our marriage together.
That if he truly loved me like he says and wanted to make me happy and give me that feeling of love, security, peace, etc - he'd more than willing to do these things for me. Unselfish love! (Then again, I also realize that is MY opinion and obviously not as he sees it)

JessicaNAJ

I personally wouldn't buy it either. If he truly wanted you to see the truth, he'd e-mail that to you again.

And the phone records....yeah right. couldn't you call the phone company and ask them to send the records to you. Better yet, can you check them on-line?

If your gut is telling you that he's avoiding issues, that is probably what he's doing. IMO He's giving you attention to shield you from the responsibilities he's overlooking with the hopes he can get you back. If he can't be responsible for his past actions, how is he going to handle his future ones?

hittwice

IMOP and having been there with promises and lies or as I call them "pie crust promises" easily made and broken (thanks Mary Poppins)..............and back there again..........and again. Notice he is doing the EASY stuff. The non emotional stuff. The stuff that doesn't cost him much? (time, effort, or honesty or emotional work" or stuff that is complicated AND emotional or that would REBUILD trust.)

A monkey can buy flowers.

He is ignoring the hard stuff, he IS lying and giving excuses to doing that which isn't EASY for him or very reassurring to you.

Don't go with the if you care you will____________________ and ___________________ and ____________________. They will always pick the easy one off the list. and forget the rest. Same as they round robin, off the subject steer conversations to spin us and keep US off balance.

You will be "telling him" EXACTLY how to "con" you. And he will. You will get the superficial stuff. Or worse they will always pick the "this is easy no responsibility part" and "forget" the rest.

GIVE em ONE thing, one thing important really important and substantial to do. Stop seeing the GF and PROVE it. Get a paternity test, NOW. One thing really important and you will know JUST how really committed they are.

So he buys flowers.............BUT WON'T take a PATERNITY TEST?

AND you are OK with that................? (flowers die) ANOTHER child will live a long long time and impact you and his lives together in enormous ways and you HAVE to know the truth on that one...........the implications are enormous don't just look the other way on that one. And don't hide behind your son (sorry to be so blunt). YOU need to know, for financial implications alone. (that is if you and AH are still together or married).

Out of the mouths of babes. You son has seen the REAL issue here ....the important one. DUH?

I apologize if I am missing info.......but this seems REAL clear to me.