Question for the board
Supply Manager
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleaverville
Posts: 2,898
T,
You in no way stirred things up. You got caught in the crossfire of a totally unrelated exchange. You have made a choice and that too is what Alanon is about. Many of us don't have the same clarity that you seem to have to make decisions. That is why it is often recommended to take some time...to find the clarity.
Many stay and many go. And if you visit us enough you will find that we laugh too. Every meeting is different...and when newcomers are present laughing is not always what they want to see. I too went looking for advise and not getting it was difficult at first but soon enough I was finding the answers in the sharing
Alanon for me was about learning that I did have choices and you seem to have already known that. Good for you!! And good luck in your future. Visit often.
(((HUGS))))
JT
You in no way stirred things up. You got caught in the crossfire of a totally unrelated exchange. You have made a choice and that too is what Alanon is about. Many of us don't have the same clarity that you seem to have to make decisions. That is why it is often recommended to take some time...to find the clarity.
Many stay and many go. And if you visit us enough you will find that we laugh too. Every meeting is different...and when newcomers are present laughing is not always what they want to see. I too went looking for advise and not getting it was difficult at first but soon enough I was finding the answers in the sharing
Alanon for me was about learning that I did have choices and you seem to have already known that. Good for you!! And good luck in your future. Visit often.
(((HUGS))))
JT
believer
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: walking in faith
Posts: 1,023
Wow T, you kinda halted me in my tracks a bit.
Yes, my husband's actions were abusive. I don't know how to justify it or talk it away with sounding like I'm in denial, but I will try to explain my feelings.
My alcoholic dad was mentally abusive to me while growing up, meaning he called me fat, ugly, bitch, and would punish me with the silent treatment. To a child, his words and actions were devastatingly abusive.
By comparison, my husband has never disrespected me in that way. Yes, the lies, stealing, disappearing, those actions abused me and our relationship. I guess I have no defense in why I stayed and continued to put up with it. But I still love him, I still love my dad, and they're both still in my life today and I'm more than ok with it. Maybe this makes me a really sick person, I don't know. At some point you say when, I can't do this any more. Other times you forgive the person and move on.
Still trying to sort my feelings on this one...
Yes, my husband's actions were abusive. I don't know how to justify it or talk it away with sounding like I'm in denial, but I will try to explain my feelings.
My alcoholic dad was mentally abusive to me while growing up, meaning he called me fat, ugly, bitch, and would punish me with the silent treatment. To a child, his words and actions were devastatingly abusive.
By comparison, my husband has never disrespected me in that way. Yes, the lies, stealing, disappearing, those actions abused me and our relationship. I guess I have no defense in why I stayed and continued to put up with it. But I still love him, I still love my dad, and they're both still in my life today and I'm more than ok with it. Maybe this makes me a really sick person, I don't know. At some point you say when, I can't do this any more. Other times you forgive the person and move on.
Still trying to sort my feelings on this one...
Paused
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: oh
Posts: 51
T.....
I am glad that after 3 1/2 yrs you have decided you have had enough and want to get out. We would support either decision, but mostly we support the idea that YOU have the power to make that decision. Some people see the first episode of drinking and leave....one week is all it takes them. Some, like you, stay for 3 1/2 yrs trying to salvage what they had. Others, stay for even longer.
Staying/Leaving is SUBJECTIVE and each situation is different as is each alcoholic/addict and each co dependent. Women in this world tend to push each other down for not "having the strength to act as I think I WOULD" instead of reaching out a hand to help up someone who is struggling with the decision. 3 1/2 yrs was the RIGHT time for you. So, now instead of judging how much you think OTHER women should put up, reach out and offer some support and guidance.
much love ~piggle~
Staying/Leaving is SUBJECTIVE and each situation is different as is each alcoholic/addict and each co dependent. Women in this world tend to push each other down for not "having the strength to act as I think I WOULD" instead of reaching out a hand to help up someone who is struggling with the decision. 3 1/2 yrs was the RIGHT time for you. So, now instead of judging how much you think OTHER women should put up, reach out and offer some support and guidance.
much love ~piggle~
Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: North America
Posts: 362
2 cents are being thrown in from my way.....
T, welcome to the boards.
Tough, Tough thoughts there about staying and leaving. I struggled with that for so long. I've been living apart from my A now for close to 7 months.
I truly beleive it is all about the situation. Of coarse everyone is different, and each one has strength and hope to share. My A was verbally abusive, and tearing me down mentally and emotionally. We have a daughter together and after years of back and forth, I finally left. He still to this day thinks he does not have a problem.
But, there again each situation is different.....The most important thing I think in Al-anon is sharing. You learn so much just from listening or reading.
Keep posting!
Hugs...
T, welcome to the boards.
Tough, Tough thoughts there about staying and leaving. I struggled with that for so long. I've been living apart from my A now for close to 7 months.
I truly beleive it is all about the situation. Of coarse everyone is different, and each one has strength and hope to share. My A was verbally abusive, and tearing me down mentally and emotionally. We have a daughter together and after years of back and forth, I finally left. He still to this day thinks he does not have a problem.
But, there again each situation is different.....The most important thing I think in Al-anon is sharing. You learn so much just from listening or reading.
Keep posting!
Hugs...
Paused
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lake Havasu, Arizona
Posts: 8
3.5 years
Yes of course, you're all right. I hate alcohol, I hate what it does to people. At the time my A and I were getting together my mother became ill and I found out her liver had shut down, when I got to the hospital (in another state) her skin wasn't yellow it was orange and she barely knew I was there. They sent her home to die where I stayed with her for the 8 days it took. Her death certificate states she died from alcoholism. My mother was never a raging drunk, but that whole side of my family drank each night and always had, no none ever got out of line or falling down drunk. So it was a surprise for me when it killed her, she had just turned 59, she went in to the hospital the day after her birthday. My mother should not be dead.
The reason I stayed as long as I did with my A was for a few reasons. I was married to him when I was 18 - 19 (he was 27) for a short time. He drank too much but nothing like the pattern he has now and I was too young so we split. He remarried and ended up leaving her to be with me after almost 20 years of marriage. He hid his real drinking problem at this time so I assumed he was merely a 'partier' in his younger days and he assured me drinking was not a problem. Well after living with him for one month he pulled the old "I'll be on my way home from work in about a half hour, see you shortly" and I didn't hear from him til the next morning. I packed his stuff up then and kicked him out but he was showing up on his knees and I felt I needed to give him the opportunity to do things right considering he left a 20 year marriage to be back with me. So I gave him chance after chance but he kept repeating the same behavior over and over again.
It gets a lot more involved and I could end up writing a book here if I included everything his ex wife did and continued to do and the control she still maintained over him through her threats of creating problems for him through contacting me. I've read about extreme co-dependents and she was that and more. She refused to let go and had manipulated and controlled him and his mother and his grown children (not hers, she had no kids) for so long they weren't even aware she was doing it, and she continued to do this even though she had a new relationship with a new man, a serious relationship. 6 months into our relationship we both had to take out restraining orders on her. After those expired she kept working on him behind my back and he allowed it for fear of her starting in on me again rather than stand up to her like a man and take out another restraining order if she didn't let up. So there were more lies on top of lies.
So after living through this for 3.5 years I finally decided he'd been given enough chances to make the changes he needed to make that would enable us to have a decent life together. He'd been warned I wouldn't take it like his ex wife did, for 20 years, and look how she ended up because of it, she didn't think that he or anyone else in his family could survive without her help even 3 years after their divorce and would even create problems so that she could come in and fix them. That wasn't going to be me. I felt I gave the relationship more than my best shot, I'm comfortable with that. He, however, did not and it does take the work of two people to make a good relationship. One can't do it alone.
He made the choice to leave her to be with me and then he made the choice to repeat the behaviors that were going to end up leaving him with no one, which is where he is now by his own hand. At the age of 56 you'd think he'd be a little smarter than that! Sorry guys, but I don't think men are the smartest creatures on God's green earth. Looking back I would've saved myself a whole bunch of turmoil and a whole lot of money had I stuck with the first time I kicked him out that first month. Had he not left a 20 year marriage I wouldn't have felt so obligated to give so many chances.
Well this got a lot longer than I intended and it still barely scratched the surface!
I wish you all the best of luck in your situations.
T
The reason I stayed as long as I did with my A was for a few reasons. I was married to him when I was 18 - 19 (he was 27) for a short time. He drank too much but nothing like the pattern he has now and I was too young so we split. He remarried and ended up leaving her to be with me after almost 20 years of marriage. He hid his real drinking problem at this time so I assumed he was merely a 'partier' in his younger days and he assured me drinking was not a problem. Well after living with him for one month he pulled the old "I'll be on my way home from work in about a half hour, see you shortly" and I didn't hear from him til the next morning. I packed his stuff up then and kicked him out but he was showing up on his knees and I felt I needed to give him the opportunity to do things right considering he left a 20 year marriage to be back with me. So I gave him chance after chance but he kept repeating the same behavior over and over again.
It gets a lot more involved and I could end up writing a book here if I included everything his ex wife did and continued to do and the control she still maintained over him through her threats of creating problems for him through contacting me. I've read about extreme co-dependents and she was that and more. She refused to let go and had manipulated and controlled him and his mother and his grown children (not hers, she had no kids) for so long they weren't even aware she was doing it, and she continued to do this even though she had a new relationship with a new man, a serious relationship. 6 months into our relationship we both had to take out restraining orders on her. After those expired she kept working on him behind my back and he allowed it for fear of her starting in on me again rather than stand up to her like a man and take out another restraining order if she didn't let up. So there were more lies on top of lies.
So after living through this for 3.5 years I finally decided he'd been given enough chances to make the changes he needed to make that would enable us to have a decent life together. He'd been warned I wouldn't take it like his ex wife did, for 20 years, and look how she ended up because of it, she didn't think that he or anyone else in his family could survive without her help even 3 years after their divorce and would even create problems so that she could come in and fix them. That wasn't going to be me. I felt I gave the relationship more than my best shot, I'm comfortable with that. He, however, did not and it does take the work of two people to make a good relationship. One can't do it alone.
He made the choice to leave her to be with me and then he made the choice to repeat the behaviors that were going to end up leaving him with no one, which is where he is now by his own hand. At the age of 56 you'd think he'd be a little smarter than that! Sorry guys, but I don't think men are the smartest creatures on God's green earth. Looking back I would've saved myself a whole bunch of turmoil and a whole lot of money had I stuck with the first time I kicked him out that first month. Had he not left a 20 year marriage I wouldn't have felt so obligated to give so many chances.
Well this got a lot longer than I intended and it still barely scratched the surface!
I wish you all the best of luck in your situations.
T
Paused
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 10
T,
I admire your strength to move on with your life and mostly to be able to find the solution that will make YOU happy. I'm in both these worlds....I'm an alcoholic and so is my husband. We have tried recovery together in the past and were both able to stay sober for alittle bit of time.
Today, I'm back in recovery after relasping. My husband is actively drinking again and has not chosen to look at his problem today. For me, right now it's all about saving myself. I'm from both sides of the fence and know my own pain and suffering from this awful disease of alcholism. And in my heart I want to stay sober and make amends for my past but, I can only tell you that today I'm not planning on drinking. That's all that we can really truthfully give to others as a promise......I don't know about forever right now. I'm holding on sometimes just barely........but, I'm not a bad person and I don't intentionally abuse alchohol and plan on hurting the people I care about, I'm a nice person who wants to be good to the people in my life.
You sound like you're doing the right things to make yourself happy. Each of us are differant in what we will tolerate and for how long. That's the wonderful thing about this fellowship.....no one will judge you for your decisions.
Thanks for being here for me today and helping me in my recovery!
Ferg
I admire your strength to move on with your life and mostly to be able to find the solution that will make YOU happy. I'm in both these worlds....I'm an alcoholic and so is my husband. We have tried recovery together in the past and were both able to stay sober for alittle bit of time.
Today, I'm back in recovery after relasping. My husband is actively drinking again and has not chosen to look at his problem today. For me, right now it's all about saving myself. I'm from both sides of the fence and know my own pain and suffering from this awful disease of alcholism. And in my heart I want to stay sober and make amends for my past but, I can only tell you that today I'm not planning on drinking. That's all that we can really truthfully give to others as a promise......I don't know about forever right now. I'm holding on sometimes just barely........but, I'm not a bad person and I don't intentionally abuse alchohol and plan on hurting the people I care about, I'm a nice person who wants to be good to the people in my life.
You sound like you're doing the right things to make yourself happy. Each of us are differant in what we will tolerate and for how long. That's the wonderful thing about this fellowship.....no one will judge you for your decisions.
Thanks for being here for me today and helping me in my recovery!
Ferg
Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Troy, MI
Posts: 29
I often wonder why I have chosen to stay with my A. I'm an extremely independent person, the sole breadwinner, have a great career and I am completely capable of taking care of myself. I'm aggressive and outgoing and never take any crap from anyone (other than my A). Most acquaintances think I live a fairy-tale existence. If they only knew the truth!
I met my A when we were very young. I lived the "Brady Bunch" life - 6 kids, a loving mom & dad, a great childhood. My husband's family life was so dysfunctional, I took great pity on him. His father was an A who often beat him and once even held a gun to my husband's head. This was my first experience with alcoholism and I felt sorry for my husband having to live this horrible life. I was going to "rescue" him.
My husband's father was such an abusive drunk I remember asking myself how could my mother-in-law stay with such a jerk. I never would! And yet......here I am in the same boat she was. Like someone posted earlier, this doesn't happen overnight. It's years before you realize your loved one has a problem. And like others stated, when my husband doesn't drink he is loving, caring and a wonderful person. He has been sober on and off for years. He does realize he has a problem but always quit on his own and never went to meetings or got additional help. The last time he quit for two years. I realize now that I was enabling him to drink. I didn't want to leave him because he would end up homeless or in jail. I was going to protect him. During his two years of sobriety I told him that if he ever went back to drinking I was going to divorce him. When he started to drink, I went to a divorce attorney right away. I think that changed my husband. He didn't want to lose his family and he knew this time I wasn't making idle threats.
He is now in a 28 day rehab program and is making a real effort to change his life. I can already see that progress is being made. I will give him one final chance when he gets out but WILL leave if he ever picks up a bottle again. I have finally realized that I can't rescue someone who doesn't want to be saved.
I met my A when we were very young. I lived the "Brady Bunch" life - 6 kids, a loving mom & dad, a great childhood. My husband's family life was so dysfunctional, I took great pity on him. His father was an A who often beat him and once even held a gun to my husband's head. This was my first experience with alcoholism and I felt sorry for my husband having to live this horrible life. I was going to "rescue" him.
My husband's father was such an abusive drunk I remember asking myself how could my mother-in-law stay with such a jerk. I never would! And yet......here I am in the same boat she was. Like someone posted earlier, this doesn't happen overnight. It's years before you realize your loved one has a problem. And like others stated, when my husband doesn't drink he is loving, caring and a wonderful person. He has been sober on and off for years. He does realize he has a problem but always quit on his own and never went to meetings or got additional help. The last time he quit for two years. I realize now that I was enabling him to drink. I didn't want to leave him because he would end up homeless or in jail. I was going to protect him. During his two years of sobriety I told him that if he ever went back to drinking I was going to divorce him. When he started to drink, I went to a divorce attorney right away. I think that changed my husband. He didn't want to lose his family and he knew this time I wasn't making idle threats.
He is now in a 28 day rehab program and is making a real effort to change his life. I can already see that progress is being made. I will give him one final chance when he gets out but WILL leave if he ever picks up a bottle again. I have finally realized that I can't rescue someone who doesn't want to be saved.
Queen of one liners
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: walking beside you! Not in front of you.
Posts: 658
Hi group,
here's my 2 cents wortth; Please Take what you can use and leave the rest.
I am new to these boards but not new to Al-Anon and definitly not new to alcoholism, I do not call myself co-dependent, I do call myself a grateful member of Al-Anon, which means I go to meetings, work the steps with my sponsor, do service work, and work the princlables to the best of my enlightenment one day at a time. Now having said all that I am a survivor NOT a savior...I need all of the above just as surely today as when I came through the doors the first time.
Alcohlism is a processive diease...not only for the drinker but for me...the only way I can recover from the effects of the family diease is to keep coming back.
I what I've seen in the short time that I've been reading these boards is: a safe place where pain can be shared, where I can learn to stay off the merry go round and find myself, where I can learn to Not take things personially. a place where I can learn to trust others to handle my feelings with kind and gentle hands.
piggle said that women need to give each other an helping hand UP; (Thank you piggle) Learning to TRUST is one of my biggest issues in all my relationships not just with women but all of them especially with my H.P.
I can share my experience, strengh, and hope and maybe help someone UP or I can carry the disease and stay in the problem not the soluation. Today I judge no one (most of the time) I don't believe there is one right or wrong, there is NO black or white thinking allowed in my program. There is what's right for you and what's right for me.
I try ODAT (one day at a time; sometimes one minute at a time) to practice unconditional love.....took a long time to find a difination that I could live with....Mine is:
Unconditional Love means that I cannot always predict my reaction or guarantee my strength, but I am committed to your growth and happiness whether your in my life or not. I will always strive to accept you as you are not as I want or think I need you to be. EASY SAID HARD TO DO.
Now I didn't learn any of this over night. I came into Al_Anon at 45 so I have alot of living to UNLEARN. Since it took 45 yrs. to get where I was; I firgue I'll be 90 before I graduate...(so I'll be here for a while folks if my H.P. and you allow it and the creek don't rise)
T. Your doing just fine...your right where you need to be to get to where your H.P. needs you to be... PLease keep coming back.
Sorry this is so long, it's just been weightin' on my mind.....
Sunbeams and Blessings (still wish there was spell check)
here's my 2 cents wortth; Please Take what you can use and leave the rest.
I am new to these boards but not new to Al-Anon and definitly not new to alcoholism, I do not call myself co-dependent, I do call myself a grateful member of Al-Anon, which means I go to meetings, work the steps with my sponsor, do service work, and work the princlables to the best of my enlightenment one day at a time. Now having said all that I am a survivor NOT a savior...I need all of the above just as surely today as when I came through the doors the first time.
Alcohlism is a processive diease...not only for the drinker but for me...the only way I can recover from the effects of the family diease is to keep coming back.
I what I've seen in the short time that I've been reading these boards is: a safe place where pain can be shared, where I can learn to stay off the merry go round and find myself, where I can learn to Not take things personially. a place where I can learn to trust others to handle my feelings with kind and gentle hands.
piggle said that women need to give each other an helping hand UP; (Thank you piggle) Learning to TRUST is one of my biggest issues in all my relationships not just with women but all of them especially with my H.P.
I can share my experience, strengh, and hope and maybe help someone UP or I can carry the disease and stay in the problem not the soluation. Today I judge no one (most of the time) I don't believe there is one right or wrong, there is NO black or white thinking allowed in my program. There is what's right for you and what's right for me.
I try ODAT (one day at a time; sometimes one minute at a time) to practice unconditional love.....took a long time to find a difination that I could live with....Mine is:
Unconditional Love means that I cannot always predict my reaction or guarantee my strength, but I am committed to your growth and happiness whether your in my life or not. I will always strive to accept you as you are not as I want or think I need you to be. EASY SAID HARD TO DO.
Now I didn't learn any of this over night. I came into Al_Anon at 45 so I have alot of living to UNLEARN. Since it took 45 yrs. to get where I was; I firgue I'll be 90 before I graduate...(so I'll be here for a while folks if my H.P. and you allow it and the creek don't rise)
T. Your doing just fine...your right where you need to be to get to where your H.P. needs you to be... PLease keep coming back.
Sorry this is so long, it's just been weightin' on my mind.....
Sunbeams and Blessings (still wish there was spell check)
believer
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: walking in faith
Posts: 1,023
Hi Daffodil,
The whole unconditional love thing is a big reason why I stay. Not b/c I've necessarily had it for my husband, but b/c he always had it for me, and having never experienced such an unconditional love, it's a hard thing to walk away from.
Not only am I learning to apply this to my loved ones, but to myself as well, b/c I am harder on no one more than I am myself. But as I've grown in self-love, it's easier to grow in love for others. Despite everything we've been through, I will always be grateful to my husband for being the first person to accept me AS IS. I also understand that accepting him as is doesn't mean I will always be able to live with him AS IS. But today, I trust myself enough to handle what comes my way and to leave if it ever becomes too much. It's no longer about trusting my husband to stay clean or whatever. It's all about trusting myself to make the best decisions for ME.
Thank you Daffodil for your post.
The whole unconditional love thing is a big reason why I stay. Not b/c I've necessarily had it for my husband, but b/c he always had it for me, and having never experienced such an unconditional love, it's a hard thing to walk away from.
Unconditional Love means that I cannot always predict my reaction or guarantee my strength, but I am committed to your growth and happiness whether your in my life or not. I will always strive to accept you as you are not as I want or think I need you to be
Thank you Daffodil for your post.
Paused
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: oh
Posts: 51
Thank you
To all here who have shared their pain.... I think this thread hit home for alot of us because we spend so much time justifying our decisions to stay to our friends and family who care deeply about us. It is hard to understand why anyone would stay and suffer what truly is a horrific existence.
I know there are many situations I have read where I say to myself "holy cow! Why are you still there?" but then I have to remember we are only hearing the bad...and sometimes after enough yrs of addiction, the spouse only SEES the bad. We are all different...and we all have different reasons for staying. Some people have posted that they left after a short time and I wonder if they really gave the A a fair chance? I tend to read each situation through my own eyes and my own life. When I do this and then allow myself to judge, I have failed in my attempts to be helpful to anyone, including myself.
I am glad I stayed....but my time was much shorter than many of you. My husband is such a great person and I wanted him to succeed for him as much as for me. He has so much to offer the world. If he relapses, I do not know what I would do. One day is one thing, but he seriously jumped back into his addiction I think I would be right back on the rollercoaster.
I love this forum because it is the ONLY place where I can discuss what happened without people judging me harshly for choosing to stay. I love that you all lend a hand and even when you get upset about something, almost everyone comes back and posts with love and apologies. We are all works in progress I thank God for this forum and for all of you
I know there are many situations I have read where I say to myself "holy cow! Why are you still there?" but then I have to remember we are only hearing the bad...and sometimes after enough yrs of addiction, the spouse only SEES the bad. We are all different...and we all have different reasons for staying. Some people have posted that they left after a short time and I wonder if they really gave the A a fair chance? I tend to read each situation through my own eyes and my own life. When I do this and then allow myself to judge, I have failed in my attempts to be helpful to anyone, including myself.
I am glad I stayed....but my time was much shorter than many of you. My husband is such a great person and I wanted him to succeed for him as much as for me. He has so much to offer the world. If he relapses, I do not know what I would do. One day is one thing, but he seriously jumped back into his addiction I think I would be right back on the rollercoaster.
I love this forum because it is the ONLY place where I can discuss what happened without people judging me harshly for choosing to stay. I love that you all lend a hand and even when you get upset about something, almost everyone comes back and posts with love and apologies. We are all works in progress
I thank God for this forum and for all of you Paused
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lake Havasu, Arizona
Posts: 8
Open Minds.....
For those here that wonder if they should stay in the relationship they have with an A (and I'm not talking fathers, brothers, sisters, mothers although those could be considered as well), there are a couple of message boards that have been extremely helpful to me. The boards are listed here and you will find a LOT of helpful boards dealing with all types of relationships:
http://www.ivillage.com/relationships/boards/
Two boards in particular are "Breaking Up is Hard To Do" -
http://boards2.ivillage.com/messages...eaking211.html
And "Mending Broken Hearts" -
http://boards2.ivillage.com/messages...broken140.html
Most posts are from people in the process of ending relationships that are not alcohol related, there is one who is in the process of leaving her A,
Two regulars who reply to posters in pain are Doubleblade (sober 6+ years) and board moderator cl-northwestwanderer (sober 8.5 yrs). Their wisdom is amazing. I seek out their posts in particular.
If anyone here needs help defining their own worth and value as an individual, these two boards are the place to go and you don't have to be ending a relationship to benefit from reading the messages. If you need strength to help you break free from the roller coaster life of living with an A, you will find the advice here invaluable. To me, love isn't more important to me than my overall happiness - I only have this life to live - it's MY life, I want it stable and happy and to share my life with another means they have to want the same things - stability and happiness (and much more really but you get the idea) and the work it takes to accomplish those things means both partners are heading in the same direction. My A was a loving wonderful guy when he was sober (and most of the time he was sober), I've seen this stated over and over here in these posts. I believe that's true of all A's. But when they're not life is pretty miserable...... I can still love my A, but I don't have to be subjected to the life of living with him. Even his extremely co-dependent ex wife said to me about her new relationship with her new man that she didn't know how to deal with the normalcy of it. She also thanked me - she likes her new life, she thought that being married to I guess what could be called "our A" was the best she could have in life. Her new man treats her like she's never been treated before and she can "trust" him. She found a healthy love after leaving a sick love. She was also under the impression that all she would attract are other addicts, something told to her in Al-Anon that she decided to believe, so why leave the current addict if only to attract another? Might as well make the best of a bad situation cuz that's as good as it's going to get.
Here is a post on Trust by Doubleblade:
Trust is not given to someone upon meeting. Trust is not given to someone just because you've gone on "x" number of dates, or been in a particular situation.
Trust is a very closely guarded commodity - if you value yourself as an individual.
Trust is something you don't just give out like complimentary tickets -if you've create a life and lifestyle for yourself where happiness, success and security is a reality by your standards, efforts, means, and definitions.
Trust is not given to someone until it is earned. And trust is assessed as to whether it is earned based on YOUR VALUES, PRIORITIES, BOUNDARIES, STANDARDS AND REQUIREMENTS. It's about - does this person share your values and priorities, do they enforce their own boundaries, are they pursuing goals you admire in ways that you accept. If all that is happening - they're a good deal "like you" - although they may be opposite from you - they won't be in opposition to you regard fundamental values and goals.
At that point, you can trust them - with your life if you wish, your lifestyles can be joined with a little ripple and wave - but not a whirlpool or rip tide in the ocean of life.
Here's the thing....trust isn't a gaugable commodity. It's an all or nothing proposition, really.
If you trust someone to take out your trash - that means they were in the house alone to begin with. And what in there could they have gotten into or have access to - that could destroy your life if they were of that sort of character.
People do what they do because they want to do it. The values, priorities and boundaries a person holds justifies and entitles their actions, feelings, thoughts, words, ideas, desires, and decisions. Those same values determine the character, conscience, integrity and honor with which we conduct our lives.
http://www.ivillage.com/relationships/boards/
Two boards in particular are "Breaking Up is Hard To Do" -
http://boards2.ivillage.com/messages...eaking211.html
And "Mending Broken Hearts" -
http://boards2.ivillage.com/messages...broken140.html
Most posts are from people in the process of ending relationships that are not alcohol related, there is one who is in the process of leaving her A,
Two regulars who reply to posters in pain are Doubleblade (sober 6+ years) and board moderator cl-northwestwanderer (sober 8.5 yrs). Their wisdom is amazing. I seek out their posts in particular.
If anyone here needs help defining their own worth and value as an individual, these two boards are the place to go and you don't have to be ending a relationship to benefit from reading the messages. If you need strength to help you break free from the roller coaster life of living with an A, you will find the advice here invaluable. To me, love isn't more important to me than my overall happiness - I only have this life to live - it's MY life, I want it stable and happy and to share my life with another means they have to want the same things - stability and happiness (and much more really but you get the idea) and the work it takes to accomplish those things means both partners are heading in the same direction. My A was a loving wonderful guy when he was sober (and most of the time he was sober), I've seen this stated over and over here in these posts. I believe that's true of all A's. But when they're not life is pretty miserable...... I can still love my A, but I don't have to be subjected to the life of living with him. Even his extremely co-dependent ex wife said to me about her new relationship with her new man that she didn't know how to deal with the normalcy of it. She also thanked me - she likes her new life, she thought that being married to I guess what could be called "our A" was the best she could have in life. Her new man treats her like she's never been treated before and she can "trust" him. She found a healthy love after leaving a sick love. She was also under the impression that all she would attract are other addicts, something told to her in Al-Anon that she decided to believe, so why leave the current addict if only to attract another? Might as well make the best of a bad situation cuz that's as good as it's going to get.
Here is a post on Trust by Doubleblade:
Trust is not given to someone upon meeting. Trust is not given to someone just because you've gone on "x" number of dates, or been in a particular situation.
Trust is a very closely guarded commodity - if you value yourself as an individual.
Trust is something you don't just give out like complimentary tickets -if you've create a life and lifestyle for yourself where happiness, success and security is a reality by your standards, efforts, means, and definitions.
Trust is not given to someone until it is earned. And trust is assessed as to whether it is earned based on YOUR VALUES, PRIORITIES, BOUNDARIES, STANDARDS AND REQUIREMENTS. It's about - does this person share your values and priorities, do they enforce their own boundaries, are they pursuing goals you admire in ways that you accept. If all that is happening - they're a good deal "like you" - although they may be opposite from you - they won't be in opposition to you regard fundamental values and goals.
At that point, you can trust them - with your life if you wish, your lifestyles can be joined with a little ripple and wave - but not a whirlpool or rip tide in the ocean of life.
Here's the thing....trust isn't a gaugable commodity. It's an all or nothing proposition, really.
If you trust someone to take out your trash - that means they were in the house alone to begin with. And what in there could they have gotten into or have access to - that could destroy your life if they were of that sort of character.
People do what they do because they want to do it. The values, priorities and boundaries a person holds justifies and entitles their actions, feelings, thoughts, words, ideas, desires, and decisions. Those same values determine the character, conscience, integrity and honor with which we conduct our lives.
believer
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: walking in faith
Posts: 1,023
open, one thing I have learned, nothing in this world is as black or white as you're trying to make it....
T, just b/c someone loves an A doesn't mean it's a sick love. If I love and choose to stay with someone who's a diabetic or who has Alzheimer's, etc, does that mean it's a sick love? Like you've said, like we've all said, at some point enough may be enough. But if someone chooses to stay with an A, does it mean they're sick?
I chose to spend my life with someone who has the same values and goals, things you mentioned. But b/c he has an addiction, does that mean he can't possibly have the same values? B/c he has this disease, does it mean he doesn't want stability and happiness? I think most people would choose NOT to have an addiction. For A's, getting clean and sober is not as simple as not picking up. Yes, that's the first step. But if it were that easy, well, there wouldn't be any A's out there.
I could go on and on about this, about my feelings on the topic. But the bottom line for me is this, addiction is a disease, not a character flaw, and not an automatic determination of ones values.
I hope you don't take my tone harshly. This is a very worthwhile discussion and I'm glad to be having it.
T, just b/c someone loves an A doesn't mean it's a sick love. If I love and choose to stay with someone who's a diabetic or who has Alzheimer's, etc, does that mean it's a sick love? Like you've said, like we've all said, at some point enough may be enough. But if someone chooses to stay with an A, does it mean they're sick?
I chose to spend my life with someone who has the same values and goals, things you mentioned. But b/c he has an addiction, does that mean he can't possibly have the same values? B/c he has this disease, does it mean he doesn't want stability and happiness? I think most people would choose NOT to have an addiction. For A's, getting clean and sober is not as simple as not picking up. Yes, that's the first step. But if it were that easy, well, there wouldn't be any A's out there.
I could go on and on about this, about my feelings on the topic. But the bottom line for me is this, addiction is a disease, not a character flaw, and not an automatic determination of ones values.
I hope you don't take my tone harshly. This is a very worthwhile discussion and I'm glad to be having it.
Guest
Posts: n/a
People do what they do because they want to do it. The values, priorities and boundaries a person holds justifies and entitles their actions, feelings, thoughts, words, ideas, desires, and decisions. Those same values determine the character, conscience, integrity and honor with which we conduct our lives.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lake Havasu, Arizona
Posts: 8
Addicted to Love
I really don't consider a relationship with an active A as a healthy relationship, or another description could be used, sick relationship - same as love. If I were married to a diabetic I doubt I'd be subjected to abuse, which comes in all forms, because of the disease. Does the diabetic accept treatment to keep his disease under control? Usually if they want to live. Does an alcoholic?
I'm addicted to cigarettes. Does that mean I have a disease? I'm also addicted to Dr. Pepper. I never really bought into that 'alcoholism is a disease' claim. If that's really true then all other addictions should also be considered diseases. Or don't other addictions count if they're not legal substances?
I don't think it's a good idea for me to stay around this board. I can see I don't see eye to eye with many of you who will defend or make excuses for someone who continually abuses alcohol and makes everyone who cares about them miserable wrecks who have to go to meetings to learn how to cope with living with them.
Sorry if I've offended and I can see I have. You of course can choose to live whatever kind of lives you wish. That is always your choice - just remember that it is a choice you make though. I wish you all the best although I don't know how many of you will ever get that. Love can also be an addiction.
T
I'm addicted to cigarettes. Does that mean I have a disease? I'm also addicted to Dr. Pepper. I never really bought into that 'alcoholism is a disease' claim. If that's really true then all other addictions should also be considered diseases. Or don't other addictions count if they're not legal substances?
I don't think it's a good idea for me to stay around this board. I can see I don't see eye to eye with many of you who will defend or make excuses for someone who continually abuses alcohol and makes everyone who cares about them miserable wrecks who have to go to meetings to learn how to cope with living with them.
Sorry if I've offended and I can see I have. You of course can choose to live whatever kind of lives you wish. That is always your choice - just remember that it is a choice you make though. I wish you all the best although I don't know how many of you will ever get that. Love can also be an addiction.
T
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lake Havasu, Arizona
Posts: 8
www.alcoholismkills.com
What Makes Them Stay?
Most people who come in contact with the inappropriate behavior of an alcoholic will simply walk away. They will end the relationship or friendship and take steps to avoid further contact. But for many others it is not so simple.
Others seem to be drawn to alcoholics and the more the behavior becomes unacceptable or abusive, the harder they seem to hold on to the relationship -- the harder they work to try to "fix" it.
In our story, Glenda tried to hold on to her marriage to David long after his treatment of her became what any "normal" person would consider totally unacceptable -- even after it got to the point that he appeared to be trying to push her away.
She worked even more diligently to try to make the marriage work. She went out of her way to cater to his every need and desire. She ignored his verbal abuse and blamed herself for his violent outbursts. She spent most of her time "walking on egg shells".
In the process, she simply disappeared. She was no longer Glenda; she was "David's wife." Her goals and ambitions in life became non-existent as she put all of her energy and effort into trying to hold on to David at all costs. It required all of her attention; there was no time left for her. She stopped living her own life and began living his -- with her "happiness" solely dependent upon what kind of day he was having.
Some Common Traits
What is the difference between those who walk away from an abusive alcoholic and those who cling to them? There may be no black-and-white answers, but here are some characteristics that seem to be common to those who can't just walk away:
Low Self-Esteem -- For whatever reason, those in abusive relationships usually have a very low opinion of themselves. They may think they are unattractive, or too overweight, or not smart enough. Consequently, they hold on to their present relationship, because they believe that no one else would ever want them. They think it's the only relationship they will ever have.
Abandonment Issues -- Perhaps they were abandoned by a parent in childhood and the loss was traumatic. They go through life trying to avoid feeling that way again. They hang on because being in an abusive relationship is better than being left alone -- their greatest fear.
Need to be Needed -- They confuse pity with love. All of their relationships are with people who "need" them or are dependent on them in some way. They are rescuers. They don't leave the relationship because they think the alcoholic could not survive without their help.
Controlling -- They have a strong need to be in control. They take on responsibilities that do not belong to them -- paying the bills, repairing the house, mowing the lawn -- because those things just would not get done without them. They may complain about the alcoholic's lack of responsibility in these areas, but many times the truth is they would have it no other way because it satisfies their need to be needed.
No Boundaries -- They have trouble setting personal boundaries, standing up for themselves. They have a problem saying "no." They may try to set boundaries, but then feel guilty and allow those lines to be crossed, which usually causes more problems in the relationship than never having set the boundary in the first place.
Addicted to Excitement -- Many who are involved in alcoholic relationships find that they are attracted to the excitement, the chaos, the uncertainty, and even the crises. They cannot stand to be bored. They would find "normal" people terribly dull. In times of relative calm, sometimes they will even create a crisis, just to avoid boredom. For them, life must be a constant soap opera.
Acceptance Seeking -- Since many who end up in alcoholic relationships grew up in alcoholic homes themselves, they are comfortable with alcoholics because they know they will not be judged. Many are attracted to alcoholics in the first place because that is behavior that they are used to and most comfortable being around.
Martyr Complex -- There are those who seem to enjoy being in the role of a martyr, a perpetual victim, for some psychological reason. They enjoy the sympathy they receive when they tell their friends the suffering they have to endure as a result of the alcoholic's behavior. These martyr personalities seem to have the most problems if the alcoholic seeks treatment and finds sobriety.
Hiding Out -- As long as they have the alcoholic's behavior to focus upon, it takes the spotlight off of their own shortcomings. If they can point the finger at the alcoholic and blame all of the family's problems on his behavior, no one notices the part they are playing, including themselves sometimes. They are "safe" in the relationship because they can hide their own flaws behind the many mistakes of the alcoholic.
Not everyone in an abusive relationship has all of the above characteristics, but most have at least some of them.
Enabling
Sometimes 'Helping' Doesn't Help at All
Many times when family and friends try to "help" alcoholics, they are actually making it easier for them to continue in the progression of the disease.
This baffling phenomenon is called "enabling," which takes many forms, all of which have the same effect -- allowing the alcoholic to avoid the consequences of his actions. This in turn allows the alcoholic to continue merrily along his drinking ways, secure in the knowledge that no matter how much he screws up, somebody will always be there to rescue him from his mistakes.
What is the difference between "helping" and "enabling?" There are many opinions and viewpoints on this, some of which can be found on the pages linked below, but here is a simple description:
Helping is doing something for someone that they are not capable of doing themselves. Enabling is doing for someone things that they could, and should be doing themselves.
Simply, enabling creates a atmosphere in which the alcoholic can comfortably continue his unacceptable behavior.
Are you an enabler?
Here's a few questions that might help determine the difference between helping and enabling an alcoholic in your life:
1. Have you ever "called in sick" for the alcoholic, lying about his symptoms?
2. Have you accepted part of the blame for his (or her) drinking or behavior?
3. Have you avoided talking about his drinking out of fear of his response?
4. Have you bailed him out of jail or paid for his legal fees?
5. Have you paid bills that he was supposed to have paid himself?
6. Have you loaned him money?
7. Have you tried drinking with him in hopes of strengthening the relationship?
8. Have you given him "one more chance" and then another and another?
9. Have you threatened to leave and didn't?
10. Have you finished a job or project that the alcoholic failed to complete himself?
Of course, if you answered "yes" to any of these questions, you at some point in time have enabled the alcoholic to avoid his own responsibilities. Rather than "help" the alcoholic, you have actually made it easier for him to get worse.
If you answered "yes" to most or all of these questions, you have not only enabled the alcoholic, you have probably become a major contributor to the growing and continuing problem and chances are have become effected by the disease yourself.
As long as the alcoholic has his enabling devices in place, it is easy for him to continue to deny that he has a drinking problem -- since most of his problems are being "solved" by those around him. Only when he is forced to face the consequences of his own actions, will it finally begin to sink in how deep his problem has become.
Some of these choices are not easy for the friends and families of alcoholics. If the alcoholic drinks up the money that was supposed to pay the utility bill, he's not the only one who will be living in a dark, cold, or sweltering house. The rest of the family will suffer right along with him.
That makes the only option for the family seem to be taking the money intended for groceries and paying the light bill instead, since nobody wants to be without utilities.
But that is not the only option. Taking the children to friends or relatives, or even a shelter, and letting the alcoholic come home alone to a dark house, is an option that protects the family and leaves the alcoholic face-to-face with his problem.
Those kinds of choices are difficult. They require " detachment with love." But it is love. Unless the alcoholic is allowed to face the consequences of his own actions, he will never realize just how much his drinking has become a problem -- to himself and those around him.
Most people who come in contact with the inappropriate behavior of an alcoholic will simply walk away. They will end the relationship or friendship and take steps to avoid further contact. But for many others it is not so simple.
Others seem to be drawn to alcoholics and the more the behavior becomes unacceptable or abusive, the harder they seem to hold on to the relationship -- the harder they work to try to "fix" it.
In our story, Glenda tried to hold on to her marriage to David long after his treatment of her became what any "normal" person would consider totally unacceptable -- even after it got to the point that he appeared to be trying to push her away.
She worked even more diligently to try to make the marriage work. She went out of her way to cater to his every need and desire. She ignored his verbal abuse and blamed herself for his violent outbursts. She spent most of her time "walking on egg shells".
In the process, she simply disappeared. She was no longer Glenda; she was "David's wife." Her goals and ambitions in life became non-existent as she put all of her energy and effort into trying to hold on to David at all costs. It required all of her attention; there was no time left for her. She stopped living her own life and began living his -- with her "happiness" solely dependent upon what kind of day he was having.
Some Common Traits
What is the difference between those who walk away from an abusive alcoholic and those who cling to them? There may be no black-and-white answers, but here are some characteristics that seem to be common to those who can't just walk away:
Low Self-Esteem -- For whatever reason, those in abusive relationships usually have a very low opinion of themselves. They may think they are unattractive, or too overweight, or not smart enough. Consequently, they hold on to their present relationship, because they believe that no one else would ever want them. They think it's the only relationship they will ever have.
Abandonment Issues -- Perhaps they were abandoned by a parent in childhood and the loss was traumatic. They go through life trying to avoid feeling that way again. They hang on because being in an abusive relationship is better than being left alone -- their greatest fear.
Need to be Needed -- They confuse pity with love. All of their relationships are with people who "need" them or are dependent on them in some way. They are rescuers. They don't leave the relationship because they think the alcoholic could not survive without their help.
Controlling -- They have a strong need to be in control. They take on responsibilities that do not belong to them -- paying the bills, repairing the house, mowing the lawn -- because those things just would not get done without them. They may complain about the alcoholic's lack of responsibility in these areas, but many times the truth is they would have it no other way because it satisfies their need to be needed.
No Boundaries -- They have trouble setting personal boundaries, standing up for themselves. They have a problem saying "no." They may try to set boundaries, but then feel guilty and allow those lines to be crossed, which usually causes more problems in the relationship than never having set the boundary in the first place.
Addicted to Excitement -- Many who are involved in alcoholic relationships find that they are attracted to the excitement, the chaos, the uncertainty, and even the crises. They cannot stand to be bored. They would find "normal" people terribly dull. In times of relative calm, sometimes they will even create a crisis, just to avoid boredom. For them, life must be a constant soap opera.
Acceptance Seeking -- Since many who end up in alcoholic relationships grew up in alcoholic homes themselves, they are comfortable with alcoholics because they know they will not be judged. Many are attracted to alcoholics in the first place because that is behavior that they are used to and most comfortable being around.
Martyr Complex -- There are those who seem to enjoy being in the role of a martyr, a perpetual victim, for some psychological reason. They enjoy the sympathy they receive when they tell their friends the suffering they have to endure as a result of the alcoholic's behavior. These martyr personalities seem to have the most problems if the alcoholic seeks treatment and finds sobriety.
Hiding Out -- As long as they have the alcoholic's behavior to focus upon, it takes the spotlight off of their own shortcomings. If they can point the finger at the alcoholic and blame all of the family's problems on his behavior, no one notices the part they are playing, including themselves sometimes. They are "safe" in the relationship because they can hide their own flaws behind the many mistakes of the alcoholic.
Not everyone in an abusive relationship has all of the above characteristics, but most have at least some of them.
Enabling
Sometimes 'Helping' Doesn't Help at All
Many times when family and friends try to "help" alcoholics, they are actually making it easier for them to continue in the progression of the disease.
This baffling phenomenon is called "enabling," which takes many forms, all of which have the same effect -- allowing the alcoholic to avoid the consequences of his actions. This in turn allows the alcoholic to continue merrily along his drinking ways, secure in the knowledge that no matter how much he screws up, somebody will always be there to rescue him from his mistakes.
What is the difference between "helping" and "enabling?" There are many opinions and viewpoints on this, some of which can be found on the pages linked below, but here is a simple description:
Helping is doing something for someone that they are not capable of doing themselves. Enabling is doing for someone things that they could, and should be doing themselves.
Simply, enabling creates a atmosphere in which the alcoholic can comfortably continue his unacceptable behavior.
Are you an enabler?
Here's a few questions that might help determine the difference between helping and enabling an alcoholic in your life:
1. Have you ever "called in sick" for the alcoholic, lying about his symptoms?
2. Have you accepted part of the blame for his (or her) drinking or behavior?
3. Have you avoided talking about his drinking out of fear of his response?
4. Have you bailed him out of jail or paid for his legal fees?
5. Have you paid bills that he was supposed to have paid himself?
6. Have you loaned him money?
7. Have you tried drinking with him in hopes of strengthening the relationship?
8. Have you given him "one more chance" and then another and another?
9. Have you threatened to leave and didn't?
10. Have you finished a job or project that the alcoholic failed to complete himself?
Of course, if you answered "yes" to any of these questions, you at some point in time have enabled the alcoholic to avoid his own responsibilities. Rather than "help" the alcoholic, you have actually made it easier for him to get worse.
If you answered "yes" to most or all of these questions, you have not only enabled the alcoholic, you have probably become a major contributor to the growing and continuing problem and chances are have become effected by the disease yourself.
As long as the alcoholic has his enabling devices in place, it is easy for him to continue to deny that he has a drinking problem -- since most of his problems are being "solved" by those around him. Only when he is forced to face the consequences of his own actions, will it finally begin to sink in how deep his problem has become.
Some of these choices are not easy for the friends and families of alcoholics. If the alcoholic drinks up the money that was supposed to pay the utility bill, he's not the only one who will be living in a dark, cold, or sweltering house. The rest of the family will suffer right along with him.
That makes the only option for the family seem to be taking the money intended for groceries and paying the light bill instead, since nobody wants to be without utilities.
But that is not the only option. Taking the children to friends or relatives, or even a shelter, and letting the alcoholic come home alone to a dark house, is an option that protects the family and leaves the alcoholic face-to-face with his problem.
Those kinds of choices are difficult. They require " detachment with love." But it is love. Unless the alcoholic is allowed to face the consequences of his own actions, he will never realize just how much his drinking has become a problem -- to himself and those around him.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Basement
Posts: 724
Re: Addicted to Love
Originally posted by T...
If I were married to a diabetic I doubt I'd be subjected to abuse, which comes in all forms, because of the disease. Does the diabetic accept treatment to keep his disease under control? Usually if they want to live. Does an alcoholic?
I don't think it's a good idea for me to stay around this board. I can see I don't see eye to eye with many of you who will defend or make excuses for someone who continually abuses alcohol and makes everyone who cares about them miserable wrecks who have to go to meetings to learn how to cope with living with them.
T
If I were married to a diabetic I doubt I'd be subjected to abuse, which comes in all forms, because of the disease. Does the diabetic accept treatment to keep his disease under control? Usually if they want to live. Does an alcoholic?
I don't think it's a good idea for me to stay around this board. I can see I don't see eye to eye with many of you who will defend or make excuses for someone who continually abuses alcohol and makes everyone who cares about them miserable wrecks who have to go to meetings to learn how to cope with living with them.
T
I don't think anyone here has made excuses for the alcoholic. They have in fact defended their choice to stay in a relationship with one. Most relationships we wind up in when we are adults are about healing. for whatever reason, some of which you spoke about in your post that followed this one "what makes them stay", whether it is to work through past wounds from an alcoholic parent or to deal with leftover abandonment issues, the goal is to heal, and every individual has their process. As one who has lived through all of this and got out, I would imagine you would understand that and respect another's process to find their way. If people don't go through the healing, they are bound to repeat the same pattern.
I consider myself fortunate to be going through such enormous self discovery and growth. Many people go through life lost and unable to find their way. It's unfortunate that some of us have to become involved in an alcoholic relationship to realize our worth and fight for ourselves, but it takes what it takes. Respecting another's process to learn that for themselves is about maturity and not being so codependent that you have to make everyone see your point of view or else you have no choice but to leave. This board is about supporting people through their process, a place people can come where they don't feel judged and ridiculed for being who they are but, offered guidance in a loving way by those who have walked similar paths and want to help.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: georgia
Posts: 531
Hey I just had to jump aboard this one since I am one who has chosen for now to stay.
It is not black and white, well they are an alcoholic so I must go or they must go. In my case, we dated in High School, got married four years after school (which is still young) and did a lot of partying. The difference is, he became addicted, I did not. When did it change? Who knows! It took me YEARS to realize that he was and addict. I thought he refused to grow up, he couldn't handle resposiblity etc., etc. Well I probably truely realized the addiction about five years ago, then it took me another couple of years to accept it and still another couple to actually start doing something about it. When you have been with someone 15-20 years it is difficult to admit to yourself that they have a problem. I didn't want to believe it either. After all by this time we have 3 children together whom he is wonderful to.
So now it isn't just me I make decisions for it is for the children as well. I spend a lot of time weighing out the choices and at this point in my life and theirs, I believe it would do more harm to seperate them from their father than to live with him. We have many more good times than drunk times. At this time I usually am the one that it affects the most. The kids are in bed or aren't aware that he spent the night at his brothers because he couldn't drive home. I realize that they will understand more and more as they get older, and maybe the time will come when it is better for them to be apart than together. My oldest son is aware that his father has a problem with drinking and we talk about it a good bit. He would go to pieces if I threw his Dad out.
I know for me it isn't always the best, but generally speaking I have been very blessed in my life. I have three beautiful, healthy children. Loving parents, a great job, and a roof over my head. Yes sometimes it sucks that I have to do things by myself because he doesn't want to partcipate or I have to put up with the excessive snorring because he was drunk, but my HP never promised that the road would be easy. In fact He tells us that we will be challenged time and time again even pursicuted for what we believe. I have become a better Christian and more in touch with myself and others because of my husbands addiction. I pray everyday that he will win the battle with alcohol and I will be given the strength and wisdom to guide my family to the best life that I can.
I understand that everyones circumstances are different and some can choose to leave and some can choose to stay, but it isn't our job to judge each other for the choices that we make, but to offer whatever support that we can to help each other in the choices we make.
Constant
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is being sure if what we hope for and certain of what we do not see
It is not black and white, well they are an alcoholic so I must go or they must go. In my case, we dated in High School, got married four years after school (which is still young) and did a lot of partying. The difference is, he became addicted, I did not. When did it change? Who knows! It took me YEARS to realize that he was and addict. I thought he refused to grow up, he couldn't handle resposiblity etc., etc. Well I probably truely realized the addiction about five years ago, then it took me another couple of years to accept it and still another couple to actually start doing something about it. When you have been with someone 15-20 years it is difficult to admit to yourself that they have a problem. I didn't want to believe it either. After all by this time we have 3 children together whom he is wonderful to.
So now it isn't just me I make decisions for it is for the children as well. I spend a lot of time weighing out the choices and at this point in my life and theirs, I believe it would do more harm to seperate them from their father than to live with him. We have many more good times than drunk times. At this time I usually am the one that it affects the most. The kids are in bed or aren't aware that he spent the night at his brothers because he couldn't drive home. I realize that they will understand more and more as they get older, and maybe the time will come when it is better for them to be apart than together. My oldest son is aware that his father has a problem with drinking and we talk about it a good bit. He would go to pieces if I threw his Dad out.
I know for me it isn't always the best, but generally speaking I have been very blessed in my life. I have three beautiful, healthy children. Loving parents, a great job, and a roof over my head. Yes sometimes it sucks that I have to do things by myself because he doesn't want to partcipate or I have to put up with the excessive snorring because he was drunk, but my HP never promised that the road would be easy. In fact He tells us that we will be challenged time and time again even pursicuted for what we believe. I have become a better Christian and more in touch with myself and others because of my husbands addiction. I pray everyday that he will win the battle with alcohol and I will be given the strength and wisdom to guide my family to the best life that I can.
I understand that everyones circumstances are different and some can choose to leave and some can choose to stay, but it isn't our job to judge each other for the choices that we make, but to offer whatever support that we can to help each other in the choices we make.
Constant
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is being sure if what we hope for and certain of what we do not see
Paused
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: oh
Posts: 51
T...don't leave, stay and read with an OPEN mind :)
Wouldn't it be simple if we all left as soon as we found out? We wouldn't need al-anon or nar-anon. We would just walk out and move on.
The truth is that many of us DON'T! You can post a million reasons why we are the flawed ones for staying, T, but it doesn't change the fact that many have stayed and are currently living with an addict or alcoholic. Does this mean they are not worthy of support?
I stayed but with strict boundaries...and he was actively seeking help as soon as we realized what was going on. His actual drinking problem only last 1-2 yrs. Does that mean that anyone who stays longer deserves no support from me?
What is, simply IS. In my humble opinion, we are not here to judge someone for their choice to stay or leave. We are here to support them REGARDLESS. We do suggest meetings.....we DO suggest setting boundaries. If the situation is violent, we urge the person to get out.
We cannot make anyone do anything. All we can do is give them the information & tools and let them come to the right decision for themselves. When you judge them for not choosing what YOU deem is right, you are no longer selflessly helping. You are, instead, attempting to validate to yourself that your choice was the one, true way.
My husband has a master's degree and is the kindest, most giving man I have ever met. He would give anyone a ride, loan someone in need half of our meager resources to help them, give of himself amost endlessly. He struggled with the DISEASE of alcoholism for approx 2 yrs of his 36. I chose to stay while he was being treated for his DISEASE. You know how I KNEW it was a disease? because like a previous poster, he and I drank together for quite some time...partying and hanging out. When it was time to buckle down, I didn't have a problem letting go of the alcohol, and he couldn't go without. His body craved it so desperately that this strong man (6'2"!) would cry with need. He didn't WANT it, but his shaking, sweating body did.
You are addicted to cigs?? welcome to the club...I am actively trying to quit. My husband and I both smoked, also...but when it came time to quit, guess what? HE was able to set them down and never miss them and I WAS the one with such intense cravings and obsessions of the mind that I was struggling all the time with my need.
Most "diseases" have choice related to them somewhere along the line...heart disease-diet! Cancer - sun exposure, smoking, etc. That doesn't lessen the degree of the disease nor does it make the patient unworthy of support.
I, too, struggle with feeling that my way is "more" right sometimes.....when I do, I realize it is time again to be humbled. My way is simply that....MY way.
You have alot to offer but I don't feel like you think people who stay deserve your wisdom and support. You are the one who loses the biggest when you make that choice...through supporting others, I have learned the most about myself.
Good luck in whatever you choose
Much love ~piggle~
The truth is that many of us DON'T! You can post a million reasons why we are the flawed ones for staying, T, but it doesn't change the fact that many have stayed and are currently living with an addict or alcoholic. Does this mean they are not worthy of support?
I stayed but with strict boundaries...and he was actively seeking help as soon as we realized what was going on. His actual drinking problem only last 1-2 yrs. Does that mean that anyone who stays longer deserves no support from me?
What is, simply IS. In my humble opinion, we are not here to judge someone for their choice to stay or leave. We are here to support them REGARDLESS. We do suggest meetings.....we DO suggest setting boundaries. If the situation is violent, we urge the person to get out.
We cannot make anyone do anything. All we can do is give them the information & tools and let them come to the right decision for themselves. When you judge them for not choosing what YOU deem is right, you are no longer selflessly helping. You are, instead, attempting to validate to yourself that your choice was the one, true way.
My husband has a master's degree and is the kindest, most giving man I have ever met. He would give anyone a ride, loan someone in need half of our meager resources to help them, give of himself amost endlessly. He struggled with the DISEASE of alcoholism for approx 2 yrs of his 36. I chose to stay while he was being treated for his DISEASE. You know how I KNEW it was a disease? because like a previous poster, he and I drank together for quite some time...partying and hanging out. When it was time to buckle down, I didn't have a problem letting go of the alcohol, and he couldn't go without. His body craved it so desperately that this strong man (6'2"!) would cry with need. He didn't WANT it, but his shaking, sweating body did.
You are addicted to cigs?? welcome to the club...I am actively trying to quit. My husband and I both smoked, also...but when it came time to quit, guess what? HE was able to set them down and never miss them and I WAS the one with such intense cravings and obsessions of the mind that I was struggling all the time with my need.
Most "diseases" have choice related to them somewhere along the line...heart disease-diet! Cancer - sun exposure, smoking, etc. That doesn't lessen the degree of the disease nor does it make the patient unworthy of support.
I, too, struggle with feeling that my way is "more" right sometimes.....when I do, I realize it is time again to be humbled. My way is simply that....MY way.
You have alot to offer but I don't feel like you think people who stay deserve your wisdom and support. You are the one who loses the biggest when you make that choice...through supporting others, I have learned the most about myself.
Good luck in whatever you choose
Much love ~piggle~
Banned User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: reno nevada
Posts: 34
why they stay
Addictions are not all the same. Nicotine is one of the strongest addictions. But it is different than alcohol, because it does not intoxicate the user like alcohol. Alcohol is a class 2 narcotic but since it is has been legal for thousands of years it is considered harmless by most people. A single drink is enough to impair the minds ability to reason quickly. Mr. Watson who founded IBM did not allow salesmen to return to the office on the days they did business at the three martini lunch. He felt they were usless for productive work.
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