rookknight65

Hey guys,
I was just wondering, and I know every alcoholic is different, but, how much insight do they have. Do they know they are hurting the ones who love them, do they just process it differently than us, or do they just don't care? Also, do they know they are alcoholics and try to fool us, or is the denial so profound that everyone sees it but them?
I wonder about my AGF. I got her to go to an AA meeting with me and she almost went inpatient back in August. I tell her she's an alcoholic and she doesn't try to convince me otherwise. It's like trying to love an alien from another planet where normal rules of relationships just don't apply. DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW THESE PEOPLE THINK???

Chy

I have a great deal of insight..did when drinking to.
Did I know I was hurting my loved ones? No.
Had I known would it have mattered? No...but I would sure try to over compansate in other areas.
Do we process it differently...oh hell ya, it's called manipulation.
Care? ..oh yeah.. but we're stuck in doing anything as there is something more powerful controlling us. Alcohol.

Most of us know...many reamin in denial, but me who knew, yeah, tried to fool everyone by justification.

Telling me I was an alcoholic wouldn't do a thing. It was my own honest realization that got me to take back control and learn how to get gut bucket honest with who I was, how I was hurting those around me and learn how to quit manipulating those that enabled me.

JMPOV...

CarolD

"Mind your own business" was my drinking creed.

I got rid of anyone who bugged me too much.

Bars are full of friendly non judgemental drunks.

Jazzman

Hey RK, I can offer another perspective. My ex wife knew exactly what ALL the consequences were to her drinking problem but had no desire to make a serious change. Any chemical dependency has a built in denial mechanism and in the case of my ex, so powerful it can make a Mother walk away from her children. You will hear stories here that would boggle the rational mind at just how strong denial can be.

Dan

I'd tell my family, yep, I am an alcoholic.
That way, they'd stay off my case until the next time I embarassed them.
The only thing that matters, when I'm active, is my next bottle.
Your feelings, and mine, are distant concepts that might enter my thoughts at some point, especially if I'm at a loss as to how and where I'm going to get more alcohol.

bahookie

Hi
How do all these insights relate to someone who is a dry drunk?
there's no chasing of alcohol but it is definitely like talking to someone from another planet where I don't know the rules.

J
xxx

Dan

For me, it's a question of spirit and inner plumbing.
I can manifest nearly every behavior of an active alcoholic even if I'm not drinking. Replacing the drink, an often used cliche, is no joke.
Change requires action. And faith that I have somewhere inside me, the power to change.

bahookie

The first one makes sense to me. It also explains a lot.

Replacing the drink? Huh? I'm not the best at grasping these things, and have probably asked the same questions over and over, sorry!

J
xxx

Dan

Replacing the drink...

Figuratively speaking, I guess.
Replacing what the drink did for me.
I drank to feel, not feel, be happy, be sad, etc...

Finding a way to be without the drink.
It's hard to explain, really...

bahookie

ah...

So, she'll find ways of avoiding feeling, like constant housework, doing things for other people and having "no time" for our stuff? Any diversionary tactic?

you know, every time a wee lightbulb goes on in my head like this I feel like a complete sh** for the way I behave with her.

Avoiding life screams of fear and here am I complaining about it.

hmmm.
Thanks for taking the time, Dan, I really appreciate it.
Jane
xxx

Dan

Sobering up is sometimes murder on a relationship.
Just as being loaded all the time was.
It's big work, for both involved.
You're very welcome, Jane

Texxie

Dan, I've read your replies to Jane and they've been very helpful to me as well. Mind if I keep you in mind and pick your brain from time to time?

pmaslan

Can someone post
"What alcoholics Do" for RK
I can't find it at the moment.
Might help him to understand......
Thanks

rookknight65

Thanks Patty.
I found it. It's hard accepting that you come second to something so small as a bottle of booze. I'm working on it tho. Every day I get a little wizer. I guess the serenity prayer does work!!!

kellisch

Hey Rooknight65:

My name is kasiola and I'm an addict 7 years in recovery and I'm also a counselor. Here is a litte something that might help.

"Also, do they know they are alcoholics and try to fool us, or is the denial so profound that everyone sees it but them?"

Denial is the mechanism that allows every addict and alcoholic to continue despite the negative consequences and harm to self and others. Be careful though, at the bottom of your post you ask about "these people" which implies judgement of the person. Addiction is a disease which has been scientifically proven to change brain chemistry. There have been brain scans of alcoholics that show that damage to the limbic (pleasure center) can be extensive. Try to think of the person as sick, because he is, and when you separate yourself by saying "these people" you cease to be helpful, although I know this is not your intention.

Look for information about the medical aspect of aloholism, and how it affects chemistry. A good place to start might be your local college bookstore.

rookknight65

Sorry, didnt mean to insinuate anything against anyone. I'm just really confused and frustrated with her. I wish I weren't in love with this girl, but I am.

BlueMoon

YES, it is. What helped me a bit is when I finally figured out that accepting something DOES NOT mean that I LIKE it.

Another thing it's helped me to know is - it really is darned near impossible to understand and make sense of, an alcoholic's behavior. Think of it as insanity.

You don't need to tell an "A" that they're an alcoholic. They either know and don't care, or just plain don't care.

I'm FINALLY learning that the ONLY thing I can do to help ANY of the many A's in my life is to TAKE CARE OF ME. It hurts to watched loved ones be insane and hurt, it hurts when that hurt threatens to pour over onto me - but ALL I have control over is ME.


Dan - I think you said it just right in your post:
"Finding a way to be without the drink."
I drank to explain why I felt however I felt at that moment. (Yeah, THAT makes sense.)


Blessings,
Blue

rookknight65

I still don't get it tho. Should I just stop trying to figure out what she's thinking? I still wonder if I even mean anything at all to her other than a doormat/ security blanket. She has the attitude sometimes that she can either take me or leave me. She overcompensates for being cold and emotionally unavailable by being thoughtful (remembering birthdays of me, my kids, not calling me at work during my busy time, and little thoughtful gestures that are really touching, etc..).

BlueMoon

IMHO, yeah - I think that's exactly it.

It has taken me a great many years (+ a great deal of pain) to come to the realization that I cannot read ANY one's mind - or *know* what they are thinking. When that involves an alcoholic in my life, I also have to accept that I CANNOT predict their behavior.

ALL I can do is *ask* someone how they feel, what they'd like, etc. - AND TAKE THEM AT THEIR WORD - even if I *THINK* they might "really" feel differently and be unable to express it. It's not my job, not my responsiblity, not part of my capabilities as a mere mortal to *KNOW* what someone is thinking, needing, wanting. I am NOT God.
For MY sanity, I had to learn to stop acting as if I was. Hell. Half the time I'm still not sure what my OWN needs (etc) are. But DAMN! I love being *asked* instead of someone assuming.

If it were possible to "figure out" alcoholics, forums like this, groups like Al-anon wouldn't exist.

It's NOT because you are doing something wrong, that you don't care enough, that you aren't *something* enough. It's just NOT ABOUT US. That was (+ still is) a hard concept for me to totally grasp. But I believe it is true - enough people over the years have told me it's true - I feel better when I can *act* like I believe it.

And - Just because someone is a alcoholic (+ creating havoc in our lives/minds) - doesn't mean that THEY don't care. It's that alcohol is and always will be, number one for them. It is their disease.

Alcoholism IS a disease. We can't "fix" someone with the disease of alcoholism any more than we can fix someone with a brain tumor. Until either person is willing to accept and seek help, no one can help them.

ALL we can change is ourselves.
But ya know what? That is one huge change to make. And it's worth it.


I'm not sure if I'm writing to you Rookknight, or to myself. Sometimes in trying to reply to someone, I find myself saying things that I needed to hear myself. Weird kind of feeling. But I really needed to remember this stuff - so thank YOU for helping ME!

Bright Blessings,
Blue

finallyfree?

I think you can love someone and let them go. I've been trying so much to keep my marriage stable and "normal." I'm exhausted after 10 years. its time to let go, and let myself free