TexasGirl

After the normal wild weekend, Monday morning came, and my H returned to his get-up-and-go-to-work self. Sometimes the binges last 5 days, and sometimes they are more like 3, but Monday morning always seems to jolt him back to reality. This past one was not unlike the rest, but that night he seemed more remorseful than usual. He told me he knows he's hurting me, and I gave him my normal spiel, saying something like "Do you think it's possible that I can see something you can't? Until you're ready to face reality, nothing is going to change. I know you think you can do it alone, but AA is such a good tool because it addresses the mental and spiritual side of what's going on for you. If you're really uncomfortable with meetings, you still have the number to the counselor I gave you." And that was the end. I never go on more than that. I know it probably doesn't help him, but it does help me to know that I've done my part.

Long story longer, last night he didn't drink a drop. And I almost hate it even more because I am 99% sure it's not going to last. After his 2nd DWI, he managed to stop for four months, the longest I've seen. Even if it goes that far again, which of course I doubt, I can't help but fear it's a short-term thing. Yes, there is that tiny 1% chance that he's actually ready to make the commitment, but let's be honest, 1 out of 100 isn't that great and isn't that likely. Although I don't say it, I can't help but think:

Either be serious or don't! Don't bother stopping if you're not going to consider counseling! Don't waste my time when you are still thinking in the back of your head that you can control it! Unless you're serious, let's just make us both happy -- go ahead and drink your 5 weeknight beers...you'll feel better and I'll go back to wondering how and when I will be ready to leave. Don't put on this charade any more.

I guess I want to know...is this all a lie, or does he really believe that he is quitting? Is he saying stuff to keep me happy or is his disease lying to him that much? Does he know in his mind that he is going to drink again?

Cynay

Hey TG....

I just want to give you a hug.... I hate that feeling and completely understand where you are coming from.

During the last 6 to 9 months of talking with my ex I often said I liked him better when he drank, then he had an excuse for the lies, cheating and unstable behavior. I knew how to react to him, and I did not get my hopes up or expect anything... when he starting AA and did the same things I was beside myself (and a worse person) because it did not make since to me.

Keep strong hon and keep the focus on you... that is all you can do.

TexasGirl

Thanks Cynay. It truly is a cycle, isn't it? It's amazing how all of our stories correlate so closely, how my path of processing this is one that has been travelled many times. It doesn't change my situation, but I guess we get strength in numbers. It's always good to know someone can relate.

Cynay

Yea...

I find it amazing that the stories are so similiar... also what is scarry is that it seems the results are also too similiar.

Im such a romantic, I want to be the princess and have the happy ever after... I have always been this way and seem to look for the good out ... What Im learning (the hard way) is that you have to accept life on lifes terms and if its not your happy ever after... its probably a toad in your arms, not a prince.... and I kept choosing the toads. *shrugs* Im a slow learning princess.

I just have to keep the focus off all that and on me. That is what helps the most for me to keep a centered and peaceful life....

Jazzman

Hey Cynay, I saw all those same Walt Disney movies too!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

TG- I'm trying to think this through. The whole binge drinking thing has always puzzled me. I don't have any personal experience w/ binge drinkers, but I was once, (long time ago in a galaxy far, far away) a binge coke head. I would binge on the weekends and get up Monday and go to school full time then my part time job after that, never fail. But as the weeks turned into months, I stopped sharing w/ my buds and rationing out my coke so I could stretch it out for the entire week. Needless to say, my "plan" backfired on me. My guess is addiction has it's own built in denial mechanism, for addiction survival/maintenance sake. Some people can go through life with never having their "plan" backfire on them I guess. Some get the "reality pie in the face" and make a change...

Just thinking out loud...<o:p></o:p>

Crystalct1

I have read a lot of these forums and I'm glad to have them. My husband is different than most that I have read about. Maybe that's why I know that I need help too.

Someone wondered if "he'd really stay clean". I have a man who wants to stay clean, I think. He tries real hard. We've been married for two years and together for three and a half. He was using when I first met him. I didn't find out until we were already in love. Then I realized how bad it could be. He's lost a couple of jobs, stolen money from my purse, taken hundreds of dollars form the bank and disappeared, etc. You know the drill. He goes months in between each episode and each time he promises, and each time I hope and believe.

Now, when he lost his job the first time, he admited he needed help. I never supported him. I said we'd look into it, but we never did. It was never mentioned again. I let it go, time passed and I hoped it was over on its own. Another few months and then here we go again and again and again. Finally this last time (a week ago), when he disappeared on payday with his check again, something new happened to me. We did the regular thing at first. I put him out to scare him, but I knew I wasn't done with him. I just wanted him to see what it could come to. The next day, I was alone and devastated without him and he without me, I'm sure. Again he brought up getting help. He came back to "check on me" as he put it and we argued, fought, cried screamed, threw things. I begged, he apologized, etc. But after it was all calmed down again, he said, "I know I have to fix this, because I never want to see you like this again." He said I looked like I was having a nervous breakdown. Maybe I was. I just couldn't take this anymore. I had called our minister for support. I did involve a couple of his close friends, but not my family. I don't want anyone prejudging him. I'll say and think what I want to, but nobody else better (lol).

Anyway, I have made positive steps to accept that I can't love him out of this or threaten him out of this. I think I have to accept that there is no such thing as "If you loved me, you'd just stop!" Sound silly when I look at it now, but I really felt like he just didn't love me enough. Maybe that's why I was insistent on making him stop by myself--to prove that he did love me, or that I was that powerful or whatever. Crazy, right? He asked for help a long time ago. And a part of me didn't want anyone else to help him, I wanted to do it myself, even though I kept failing. See how I made this thing about me? I feel like such a fool now. Maybe someone will read this and it will help someone else.

I am probably lucky in the respect that he keeps reaching out for help. Most stories I hear are about people who won't accept that they have a problem, or those who have been in treatment after treatment, but haven't been successful at commiting themselves to it.

We are going to have counseling with our minister, and on December 1 (that's the soonest I could get, he usually makes it that far...let's hope) he has an appointment with Genesis Behavior Health and Counseling. He's going to be evaluated and treatment plans will be recommended. Today, I'm going to buy him a get well card (is that wrong to do?) just to let him know that I understand that he's not exactly well and I'm gonna be here since he does want to get well.

This is my first post. Any thoughts or words of wisdom?

Minx1969

Welcome CrystalCt1 to SR..

You may want to copy everything you wrote and start a new post..don't want to see you get lost in another post..

What are you doing to help you? Like many others I'm going to recommend Alanon..If your husband does succeed in getting sober, you need to change and get better too..I've heard in many meetings in AA and Alanon, that since it is a family disease, both parties have to get better..

From reading your post, I can see that you are completely focused on him. You need to let him work on his recovery and you need to work on you..There are three C's in Alanon - you didn't cause it, you can't control it and you can't cure it..

I'm glad that he is finally getting help by taking action..Just cuz they admit they have a problem is not that same as actually reaching out for help..

I know..my exbf admitted a few times he had a problem..I got help..he didn't..and he's still drinking today...

You have a long road ahead of you..sobriety is not an overnight cure..so go to some Alanon meetings, you will get additional support from people who understand what you are going through..

Just because he's not drinking doesn't mean everything is getting better..

Good luck.

FriendofBill

TG.....Do you think your husband wants to be alcoholic? Nah, neither do I.

Yes, he means what he says when he says no more. Problem is...he cant stay stopped. THats why its an obsessive disease.

They mean it at the time, but theyh ave no coping skills to follow thru...thats why its one day at a time..literally. One day he can cope with not drinking,,,but another day he may not..until gets help from others who are recovering, he has no earthly idea of how the heck to stay stopped.

I pray his day to fall on his kness in desperation will come soon.

ASpouse

TexasGirl, why is it so important to have these questions answered? What does it matter to your recovery? What does any of this have to do with YOUR getting better and doing for yourself. This is where so many people get stuck ..... you don't NEED answers to these answers to move on with your life. Problem is, seems as if you WANT them answered before you'll move on with your life.

You told him about AA, you gave him a counsellors # to call ..... why do you keep reminding him? He is making the choice to drink, he is being remorseful, but all he is doing is luring you in more and more. Are you enjoying getting sucked into HIS insanity? He sure seems to be enjoying sucking you into it! It's his life, let him make the choice, it may not be the choice you like or want for him to make, but it is his choice and unfortunately, married or not, you have absolutely nothing to do with it, not a damn thing!

TexasGirl

Judy, I had to think a bit on this. If I'm being codie and I need to stop, I want to know that and learn from it. And I certainly don't want to make excuses. But I also want to explore other reasons I ask these questions. I tried to really look into me to find the answer. This is the first thing I have come up with, and I don't know how true it is. But looking back, I think that all of my questions have stemmed from this issue.

My entire life, my mom brainwashed me with what she thought was right and wrong. This is more nicely referred to as establishing morals in me, and they were really good. Always be nice to everyone. Find the positive side in everything. Go to college. Don't get married until you get your degree. Don't have children until you have been married a while. Divorce is never an option since you should work through problems with your spouse. These things, along with MANY more, were engrained in me my entire life. But I have since also learned that there seem to be some acceptable reasons for divorce, such as domestic violence, adultery, or addiction. I have been told time and again here on SR that, for example, it doesn't matter whether he is an alcoholic or not but whether he is doing something that I cannot live with forever. But see, that doesn't work for my brainwashed mind. My head with everything I have ever known, says you don't divorce someone just because you don't like what they are doing right now. I like that I value the commitment of marriage, but I wish in a way that I didn't have that attitude about divorce at this point! Because sometimes, I am really unhappy. Well, as unhappy as this generally happy girl can get. So yes, I keep asking questions to put labels on him, to confirm time and again that he is behaving alcoholically, because try as I may, I cannot divorce him just because I feel like it. Even if I dislike him, I can't do it. The only way I can end a marriage is if he is destroying it based on one of the three things I've come to believe is acceptable. Does this make sense? I feel like I need permission to leave, and I don't know how or where to get that. Placing labels on him, making sure that he is "bad" enough, is one way to do it in my confused head.

TexasGirl

Sorry, I need to add one more thing. To confuse the situation even more, I should admit to you all that I have a crush on someone. Now, I would never in a million years cheat. I've never spoken to him more than a minute or two in passing. He works for the same company as I do, but in a totally different office, so our paths cross maybe once every two or three weeks. I know that it is nothing, but I can't help but get massive pitter patters every time I see him. I dream about him 2 or 3 nights a week. He is totally hot! He hates drinking. I've always gotten crushes like this my whole life, almost the obsessive kind. So I'm also trying to re-confirm my motivations every single day. I hope with every inch of my being that I'm contemplating leaving because of my husband's alcoholism, not because of some fleeting crush. Crushes go away. But at the same time, I can't shake the thought that some day I might could date him if I weren't married, and THAT IS TERRIBLE! So I do question myself every day, attempting to reassure myself that he IS an alcoholic and that he IS doing things I dislike. I just kind of don't trust myself a bit, so I keep asking questions.

ASpouse

Yes, it makes sense in a very manipulative way. I wish my tone could be heard, because although the content may seem harsh, it hardly harsh the way I would say it.

Things are not always as black and white as your mom has taught you. Unfortunately in this life, there are many many shades of gray. Not every square peg fits into a square hole, does that make sense?

I cannot believe that your mother would want you unhappy, and your husbands drinking will eventually bottom out, be it 20 years from now or 40 years from now. There will probably be kids by then ..... what about them? Do you think that the way your mother taught you was correct?

My gosh, he has 2 DUI's ..... maybe next time he'll kill someone or even himself? Maybe worse ..... I'm not advocating you leaving him or even divorcing him, but please stop trying to make logical sense of a disease that does not use the rules of logic. It's insanity, pure and simple and if your mother taught you that living with insanity is the right thing to do because you're married, then I will say you're mother is wrong and I would tell her also.

Now me, I tell my daughter and try to lead by example that happiness comes from being true to oneself, to always follow her convictions and take responsibility for her actions. I hope, and I believe, she will mature into a wonderful stable young woman, who knows her heart, who knows what she will and will not live with and will always be true to her own heart. It's all that she can really call her own.

ASpouse

But that's just it .... you don't have to reassure yourself of anything. He is the one that needs to admit he is powerless over alcohol. All you have to decide is if his behavior is acceptable to you, for you to live with FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE.

Don't overcomplicate it ......

Live

Take it or leave it, a counselor once told me that crushes and fantasy relationships occur when our needs are not met in our home and romantic life.

In my case she was right, I got a divorce and suddenly found myself much less interested in men.

Me, I think it also has alot to do with age. I am guessing you are a young woman.
I am a grandma, I have had a lifetime to observe men. I have a loving husband and I don't see other men as measuring up to mine.

Different situations in many ways.

We drink socially but neither are alcoholics and we live a harmonious life.

But it did take breakups, independence and time to run into that man I married in my grandma age.
My daughter lucked out and found it at 23 with her second serious involvement.
They are two jewels.

Go for the good life. And yes,morals are a very important part of it as is an acceptance of reality.
If you are unhappy, you are unhappy.

Commitment should not be a constriction choking your life. Furthermore commitment and union are a bi-lateral contract not a unilateral one. To journey together you must be in step, and hopefully smiling and holding hands.

I ramble.

Live

minnie

TG - do you think you have already made your decision to leave, but feel that you have to cross the "t"s and dot the "i"s on your justification? I did when I was deciding to leave my ex. I had to know a) that I had done everything I could to make the relationship work and b) that things really were as bad as I thought. Of course, I was still in the insanity of it all. Why on earth would I want to do everything to make it work when the behaviour was already beyond the pale? I had to work out exactly what my dealbreakers were. Once I did that, I knew the deal was off as he was breaking it week in, week out.

You're in a tough place at the moment. Be patient, your answers will come. And they will come quicker, the more you post about your situation, I'll bet.

1212

Texas Girl,

I am at the same crossroads you are right now. My AH says he wants to stop, but doesn't. I try to justify leaving, staying, what my dealbreakers are... I also have a crush on a guy but have a hard time rationalizing if that's why I'm thinking of divorce. I've had crushes on 3 guys during our marriage, this one was the worst, and this time I got sober instead of drinking more myself. It's maddening. I've been married for 14 years and the drinking hasn't stopped.

Lately I have fleeting moments that this is all much more simple than I'm making it out to be, but still question my every motive and move. Thanks for posting, I got a lot out of everyone's response to you.

We're separated right now and he's on a trip (he doesn't say if he's drinking or not, so I'm trying to be smart and realize that means he *is * drinking) and on and on and on... I'm slowly moving my stuff out of the house while he's gone, I can't base any more decisions on my life around whether he's gonna get sober or not. And if he does, I guess I'll see how I feel then, otherwise I'm getting ready to file divorce papers.

and p.s. - I'm NOT letting the guy I have the crush on know I have a crush on him. I think he has one on me, I've decided I can't cross that moral line and I'm proud I haven't. Divorce... maybe, but I'm officially married and cheating is cheating. IF he's available and IF I get divorced then maybe I'll LET HIM ask me out No more co-dependent latching on to guys for me.

Thanks again for your post.

minnie

TG - just something else I wanted to add.

It was never the drinking that bothered me, really. It was the behaviour that surrounded it - the lies, the lack of emotional intimacy, the selfishness, etc etc etc. THOSE were my dealbreakers, not the drinking itself.

TexasGirl

I always think it's kind of confusing when people use a bunch of quotes, but I want to touch on a few things that were said. I think this is kind of long...sorry...

You are 100% right on this. I finally decided to tell my mom about a month ago. She told me the second I was ready, she and my dad would be here to help me move if I wanted. She just never thought to warn me about alcoholism during my "brainwashing" years. She also didn't think to instill the idea to do what's best for me and only me. So those are things I need to start putting in my own head I guess. She couldn't think of everything!

I believe this whole-heartedly. Which is all the more reason I continue to question my motivations. How ridiculous would I be if I ended a marriage over a stupid crush. And what if that's my biggest motivator. Crushes, as meaningless as they are, are capable of getting one to rationalize the strangest behavior!

Yes and no. I've been referencing your "get your heart and head on the same page" thought a lot recently, and I've realized that my compassionate heart is the only one that's not on board. But the rest of it and I have emotionally checked out, a lot to protect myself and a lot because I'm tired. But I'm still not to the point where I can say out loud, "I do not want to be married anymore." That's just a bit too definitive for this stage. And thanks for letting me share...you're right, the more I post, the more I learn about myself. Sometimes I feel a little guilty posting, so I try to make sure I don't post too much and become annoying.

Ditto!

Yes, the drinking doesn't bother me either. I don't like many of the way-too-drunk side effects (passing out in the car, looking like a fool in front of our friends). But even beyond that, he's mean when he's not drinking or not drunk! I don't know if those are truly still effects of him drinking or not. He's short-tempered and controlling. Not the controlling that prevents me from doing stuff, but the kind that criticizes my every move or yells at me for not turning off the oven. Now I must state, I am not perfect. I definitely am not the best housekeeper, I forget to pay bills on time sometimes, etc. It's just not my priority...I'm just a happy-go-lucky girl! And he says I don't help him with our responsibilities enough...maybe I don't. But I get in "trouble" all the time with him, and it makes me crazy. This morning I got yelled at because I had not payed the utility bill yet, but it's not even due for a week and a half!!! LEAVE ME ALONE!!!

cwohio

ok - that's codieness showing thru! LOL

like someone else said a while back - you never know when one of your posts, even tho we make think they are annoying, whining, whatever, may help just one person.

keep on posting to your heart's content TG - for me, typing it out here seems to help more than talking about it sometimes! the very physical act of typing releases something in me sometimes. now is that weird or what? LOL

Live

Hey, check out the stickies at the top of the Women In Recovery forum.
I am seeing two problems here...one drinking, the other the control issue which is addressed in those stickies.

I am not sure if you misunderstood my point about the crushes being about not being satisfied at home. To my counselor these were symptoms of an unsatisfactory marriage.

Best wishes, everyway, everyday!
Live