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Nightmare Won't End!

Old 12-02-2002, 11:14 AM
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Angry Nightmare Won't End!

Hello Everyone:

First I'd like to begin by responding to what Hangin' In said about her daughter being disrepectful to her Dad by shouting "I hate you." Hangin' In, I would absolutely die if anyone heard the way my son talked to me last night over the phone. Yes, yes, I would hang up, but he kept calling! I, myself, am 62 years old and have never used these words. I wonder if it is like your daughter's counselor said, the "cleansing period" that's causing these outburst or the Bipolar and not taking his meds.

Davidsmom: I'm in the same predicament as you because I'm so predictable...no more....last night I had it I think he'll believe me now read on...

My husband and I went away for the weekend and had a wonderful time. We came home and there weren't any messages so I thought GREAT all is well. Then the girlfriend called and said the son was harrassing her all weekend by phone. He was threatening, etc.

I called him (cellphone) and asked him about the agreement we had about not calling her anymore if he ever wanted to be part of our family again. He said he remembered but did it anyway. I lied to him and told him that neither she or he need ever call me with their problems. He was happy to hear that because he always says I take her side. Unfortunately, he called one time after that and he heard the girlfriends child in the background and went nuts!

He then called every second and said he was leaving Reno and on his way back here to fix us all. He said call his Dad and ask him if he was missing a gun! I did! He said yes, a shotgun! I called the "son" and told him the game was over I was calling the police and I did believe him when he said he was going to fix me and everyone else. He said go ahead (Davidsmom, remember all the empty threats?) well after I talked to the police I asked them to call him and let him know that I called them and they would be watching for him.

He didn't answer his phone so I asked the police to leave a message for him, they did. I called one time after that and I said, now you know that we refuse to live our lives like this anymore the game was over and the police are now involved. He said he didn't have a gun (his an x-felon) I said I don't know that and we're treating this as a threat on our lives! I told him if he didn't believe that the man who left a message was a real police officer he only had to call the station and ask for him. The calls stopped!!! We were able to sleep!!! This morning he called 7:00 am and said "are you having fun?" My reply was, "don't call here, I only need to make a phone call and he hung up."

He just called again now he said "so, what did the cops want to talk about" I said call them and find out. He said "too late, I'm already in town." I said fine and hung up.

I can't believe how scared he has made all of us (except my husband, who is afraid for me). The girlfriend stays here or elsewhere, can't go to her house. The baby (7 year old) sweet child is scared now too because of the Mom's reaction to the calls. I downplay things so she feels secure. I WILL GIVE HIM UP GLADLY JUST KNOWING WHAT HE IS DOING THE THIS CHILD!

Laceejoe: I did say there were days when I didn't want to wake up, but you know what??? I'm done! I'm thinking now only of this 7 year old and us now.. He can either get help and get better or do what he is always saying he's going to do...I'm powerless over his situation, but not mind! Hugs, Devastated
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Old 12-02-2002, 11:45 AM
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Devastated,

My heart goes out to you as I just read your post. But I think you've done the right thing. You are putting an end to the abuse he has been putting you through for a long time. I KNOW it is NOT an easy step, but bottom line is if you don't take care of yourself, NO ONE ELSE will.

I can't help but think about the conversation I had with the doctor who runs the out patient treatment place where my daughter goes. I was feeling like NO ONE understood me, a parent of an A. Seems like everyone else in the program with my daughter was an adult, thus there was NO WAY anyone, including the folks treating my daughter, could understand how a PARENT feels in all this. (See how naive I was?... Well.......gimme a break, I'm learning... )

Anyway so I thought I'd just ask the doctor if he knew how all this felt, how helpless a parent feels in all this. Now, I knew the doctor had children but her counselor does not, thus the reason I was feeling "they don't understand!" When I asked the doctor about his children and if alcoholism had touched them, I'll never forget his response and the look on his face.

He said, "I have five children and all five are alcoholics. Three are in the program (AA and been through treatment) and I have a wonderful relationship with them. Two are not working the program and I have no relationship with them." The heartache in his eyes told it all. HE DID, IN FACT, KNOW EXACTLY HOW I WAS/AM FEELING. He went on to tell me that he finally had to draw the line and tell his remaining two children that he could not, for his own sake, continue to keep contact with them. It was too painful for him. And I could see the hurt and disappointment in his eyes as he told me this story.

Devastated, I know you will do whatever the right thing is for you when you need to do it. Just know that there are other parents out here (even though our situations are different) that understand the pain that a parent goes through with an alcoholic child. Letting go is probably the hardest thing we will ever do.

Hugs gal. Our prayers are with you.
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Old 12-02-2002, 11:58 AM
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Davidsmom

Hi:

Just read your thread about how your son steals from everyone in the family....been there! Morning Glory is right when she says when you're ready you'll take the steps to stop his insanity. Better he's in jail (warm there) than in the cold.

I remember replacing a camera 3 times!!! Talk about crazy! He stoled a Lyonell (sp?) train collection that belonged to his grandfather. A coin collection silver dollars that belonged to my husband. One night he broke in our house and stole my silverware! Finally, called the police and he returned the silverware. He stole jewerly. He stole everything he could get his hands on. Yes, they have plenty of time to hunt around for things. Now, he's 40 and he was doing well for a couple of years. He had wonderful tools for his business and I had just given him a $5 gold piece coin and chain for his last birthday (500.00). Guess what? He pawned everything he could get his hands on. When there wasn't anything else to pawn he stole from the 7 year old!! If I were to go back and live my life again, I would have turned him over to the police when he took the camera the first time! By covering for him, I enabled him to continue his rampage!

As far as living in the cold, I thought about that just this weekend. I tried mentally putting myself in that position and thought, "What would I do" and I decided my answer would be to get a place to stay and get on the road to recovery! They have a choice but don't have to make the choice until there's no place to turn. I have gotten so hateful this past weekend because I have to live like a prisoner in my own home! Yes, I'm scared of him getting in trouble again and wish he would make it because God knows he is more than capable of making 5,000 a week, but do I have the power to make him see this??? No! He has told me that I'm nothing but a piece of s--- Mom! Darn I guess I should have replaced the camera for the fourth time in order to be a good Mom in his eyes huh? I'm just mad and tired of this nonsense!

Incidentally, my Son is always so nice when he's in jail! However, I told him if this happens just to make the one initial phone call to let me know he's there so I can say, "are you having fun" like he says to me now! Also, I wouldn't put one penny on his books or visit him every week or write him everyday or see to it that he has plenty of good books to read...this way maybe he would have thought twice before returning to jail and then prison! Hugs, Devastated
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Old 12-02-2002, 09:41 PM
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Devastated,
I'm not expert, believe me. But when a person, son or not, starts to threaten your life its time to put them in jail. For your safety as well as that childs. If you love that child like you say you do then you need to act on this. A 7 year old knows whats going on. She may not show it but she has to be scarred to death. At least if she knows that he's in jail, she may feel safer and not have to look over her shoulder everytime she leaves the house. Or worry who's there every time someone knocks at the door.
He truly sounds more like he has more severe problems than addictions. Its time to take care of yourself and your family.
Its never OK to threaten people with death. A psychological game that I wouldn't play.

Hangin' In
That story was so sad but I need to hear things like that. Thanks
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Old 12-02-2002, 10:27 PM
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The others are right. You have to do whatever is necessary to take care of yourself and the child. Jail and police are probably an appropriate step. I would also suggest stashing some money and car keys and maybe a change of clothes, so if you have to get out of the house in a hurry, you can do so. One of the other moms has said she kept stuff in the trunk of her car so she could just get in and GO.

This is such a difficult time. I hope that you can wrap your son up and hand him to his Higher Power. Sounds like he has a difficult journey ahead of him

HUGS
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Old 12-02-2002, 10:50 PM
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motion detector lights and caller id and pepper spray are extra security measures as well.
It truly is a nightmare to be afraid in your own home.
Being terrorized like that can do some lasting damage to the psyche.
Good luck.
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Old 12-02-2002, 11:26 PM
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DEVASTATED---Thanks for the post!! I, too, have FINALLY admitted that my daughters journey and recovery are her own. I still have many dark days, but I'm really trying to take care of myself, and think of what the effects of the alcohol in our family has done to my 7-year old grand- daughter also. (The baby is only 10 months and too little yet to understand). It terrifies me in many ways that my granddaughter's daddy won't admit to HIS drinking problem, and comes home all the time wasted and often mean to my daughter and the kids. It is all I can do not to threaten him with the police---but the day may yet come. My daughter knows that he has a problem, but won't leave him for any length of time. Once, when she did finally leave him and came home to me---he blamed ME for "taking them away from him", and she went back to him because he soft-talked her into it. She then got pregnant with my little grandson---and now she feels even more trapped. She sees that her sister is now in recovery and staying with me, and I'm hoping that it will make her open her eyes to what her boyfriend (NO, he never married her!!) is doing---not only to his life, but to hers and the kids!!! He came home tonight when I was there visiting---and had a beer in his hand!! It made me sick, because the baby crawled over to him and put his arms up for his daddy to take him. These little kids need a decent male figure in their lives so badly, and he is NEVER going to change. He just doesn't seem to have the type of incentive to---or he would get a decent job, stop the drinking---and take decent care of his family. It's insane, isn't it??? My 7-year old granddaughter is like a little, old lady---so worrisome about everything. She's already a little enabler, because she went to the refrigerator and got her daddy a beer when he asked her to. (ANY attention is better than none????) I try every chance I get to give her some good guidance---but she's only with me on occasional weekends, and has to go back to the same environment. It's the saddest departure for me every time I have to take the kids back. As much as I love my dgt., I would just love to take these kids and raise them as my own. I know that I can't shield them from the world, but I could try to instill some decent values in them, and give them some positive things to think about. Those little angels are my life!! So, devastated, I do understand your thoughts on your grandchild---and thanks for reminding me how much we have to give!!! Hugs back!!!
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Old 12-03-2002, 12:31 AM
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Devastated,

Sometimes we need to act before we're ready and I think this is one of those times. You're doing really well. I personally know 4 families who were killed by a loved one who then killed themselves.

I can't tell you what danger you are in. Your son's girlfriend and child should be in a domestic violence shelter where they can receive counseling and be hidden and protected. Your son has taken this to a new level and the police can't protect you. You can make a citizens arrest for terrorist threats. You can get a restraining order. I had to act when my son made threats. I would have taken it as far as I had to if the threats had continued. My heart will always be against taking action with my son, but I have to put my heart aside and use logic sometimes.

There is absolutely nothing you can do now to help your son except pray for him. Please talk to a domestic violence counselor. Go tomorrow or call tomorrow. This is really really serious.

I will be praying for your safety and will pray for your son too.

Hugs,
MG
 
Old 12-03-2002, 11:06 AM
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Devastated,

I was thinking about you this morning. I realized when dealing with my son last time that the disease of alcoholism took him over and he wasn't there anymore. I spent 3 wonderful months with him when he wasn't drinking. As soon as he drank he became a different person. I realized that I was no longer dealing with him, but with his disease. It wasn't him I was battling, but his disease.

You said your son was a meth user. You are battling his disease.

Years ago my son moved in with his girlfriend who was pregnant. They lived in another state. I went out to be there when the baby was born. It was a terrible disaster. My grandchild was born ill and almost died. My son was terribly drunk and almost killed us on the way to the hospital. He snuck a whole bottle before we got in the car. I sobbed through the whole labor because he was jealous of the doctors and abusive everytime they left the room. I came back home and he continued to be abusive. I had to sneak his girlfriend and baby away from him and hide her until I could get her on a plane to her mothers. I felt so bad for my son. He was devastated. I had to choose to protect the baby because she could not protect herself.

My son ended up following her to the other state. He slept in the woods and stole food to eat. He ended up being put in jail for abuse. They set him free and ordered him out of the state.

Recently he became abusive with me and threatened me by stabbing a knife in the fence right next to me. I realized that he could and probably would kill me if I let him stay around me. I sent him away. I had to realize that it was his disease I was sending away. It breaks my heart, but that is reality.

If my son had continued to threaten me I would have gotten a restraining order and had him put in jail if he violated it. A restraining order is very important if you want police protection. There is no easy way to handle this. It is heartbreaking. I know how wonderful my son is without this disease. To have to send him away because of this disease broke my heart. We are so powerless over this. All we can do is grieve and move ahead with our lives and pray that they are set free.

You are fighting a disease that wants you dead right now. Grieve and do what is necessary to protect yourself against this disease.

I wish I had a magic wand.

Hugs,
MG
 
Old 12-04-2002, 06:56 PM
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CALLED POLICE

Hello Friends:

Thank you all for your advice, suggestions, support! I want you to know that I did call the police that evening! I had the police call him on his cellphone and leave a message. Well, it worked because the next call I got was "what did the police want" like he didn't know! He still is terrorizing the girlfriend and has now involved her entire family, X-husband, X-inlaws, boss and anyone else he can threaten her with.

Fortunately, she still hiding out and the son is back in Reno! Her X-husband said it would be best that the baby (she's 7 and I still refer to her as the baby) stayed with him until this is resolved. She got a restraining order and is waiting for it to get in place.

He calls all day all night leaving horrible messages on the girlfriends cellphone. She is changing the number at home and the cellphone. He has everyone up in arms and against him now.
He has called here four times I haven't answered. Nice calls now like, "come on, please answer the phone."

He says he wanted to hurt everyone because he was hurt. He says he has no life and has so many problems he doesn't know where to begin to solve them. Again, he promised no more calls no more threats. He says he's beaten and she won. He says he has no friends, money or transportation. He lives on top of a mountain and can't get to any job because of transportation.

Now, here I go again, when he cries, I cry! When he hurts, I hurt! It's almost better when I'm angry I don't hurt as much. I told him to look at resources available to him. Counseling, books, and most of all God. He says there isn't any God. No God would do this to me! Here I go again downhill slide...will this ever end?

MorningGlory: Where is your son now? How is he doing?

Laceejoe: I'm so sorry for you and those babies! Your daughter is like me I guess always hoping they will change and get better! I pray she gets those children out of this enviroment before anymore damage is done. How sad that that 7-year old (like mine) has all these concerns. I try to keep everything light and not scarey for her. She's very well-adjusted, does well in school.

I'll pray for you too! Love to all Devastated
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Old 12-04-2002, 07:56 PM
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Devastated,

My son is ok right now I think. He knows I won't listen to him and let him unload his problems on me now. He used to do what your son is doing to you. Now he only calls for help if he is really desparate. I don't ask questions and really don't know if there are problems. It helped him when I stopped letting him dump on me. The thing that really helped me stop was the fact that he wouldn't do anything to help himself yet he would call and cry and tell me all his problems. That wasn't helping him and certainly didn't help me. It made him take some responsibility for his emotions and problems. He was making me responsible before.

So look at your son and ask yourself what he is willing to do to fix the problems that he's dumping on you. There are plenty of people on these boards with bipolar who are working on their recovery and getting support. Your son can do that too. You are not responsible in any way for his problems. He is hurting because he won't do what he needs to do to get better.

He has choices that he's not taking right now. I know how you feel and I know how bad it hurts. I know how afraid we get when we think they are not going to survive. We have to stop letting them stay in the victim role and allow them the consequences that make them take responsiblity so they get out of the victim role and have a chance to make a life for themselves.

My heart goes out to all of us in this struggle that seems endless. We will die one day and they are going to eventually have to make it without us. We can help them now to start taking care of themselves by not doing it for them and by not taking on their pain and consequences.

It's hard and you're doing really well and moving in the right direction. I'm sure I'll be in crisis again too. One day at a time.

Hugs,
MG

Last edited by Morning Glory; 12-04-2002 at 08:01 PM.
 
Old 12-05-2002, 04:43 AM
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Devastated,
Morning Glory is one smart woman. She should write a book.
This whole group of parents offers a lot of valuable information.
They offer comfort for up parents who think that we're all alone.
They offer a pat on the back and a shoulder to cry on.
I've gotten more information in the last 4 weeks than in the last 4 years.
Keep coming back. It will give you strength that you never knew you had.
Davidsmom
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Old 12-05-2002, 08:24 AM
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Devastated,

You are SO right! Last night as my husband was going to bed, I told him, "I'm going to go read on-line."

He said, "Oh, you're going to your on-line Al Anon meeting?"

I said, 'You betcha" and I prompty came to this board and read.

I don't have the luxury of having Al Anon meetings daily or even more than once a week where I live, so this board is very much a source of strength for me.

So thanks to people like you and all the many others on here who share their stories and their actions and reactions. I've learned alot from the people who post on this site.

Thanks to all of you! You are helping this struggling Al Anon mom here.
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Old 12-05-2002, 12:02 PM
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Morning Glory

Hello Morning Glory:

I have spoken to my son today only because he was begging! He said he was through making all the threatening phone calls! He was sorry (of course, he is! Could this be the bipolar mood swings?) anyhow, he said he now can't get to work because his truck won't run, and doesn't have money to get it fixed. His Dad hasn't money to lend him. I said so what will you do, go to bed? He said yes. I tried and tried to give him encouragement, but he shoots down everything or every suggestion I make. He said he had everything and now (for the second time in his life) has lost it again. I told him he has lost it again because of choices he has made. I feel so horrible because like all moms when they are being themselves they are wonderful. He is such a quitter! I don't know what else to do. I am going to write a letter and maybe send him a self-help book! I already sent "The Book That Made It Through The Fire". Thanks for everything...Incidentally, Davidsmom is right you are so wise! Hugs, Devastated
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