TexasGirl

OK, knowing that not all answers apply to all situations, I have a question about ultimatums.

From my ongoing reading here, it seems that most people feel ultimatums do not benefit the addict. I read time and again that they have to do it for them, not for you. I've never dished out one of these puppies...I'm too afraid of the repurcussions. I fear my own inability to follow through, and I fear that he will agree to my terms only to blow them days to years down the road, possibly at a time when it would be harder to leave like after having kids. So if this is not the right route to leaving, what is? Don't I owe him a chance to show him I am serious? I have never boldfaced told him I think he is an alcoholic, as I still manage to convince myself sometimes that he isn't or that I'm not sure. I have gently prodded a couple of times in the nicest, non-confrontational voice I can muster that I am concerned about his drinking, and when he tells me he's in control of it, I drop it (I hate fighting...the only time I ever yell is when he starts in on me, and I will not take that). I have never encouraged him to seek out rehab programs or AA. I don't yell at him about his drinking...I've always been of the mindset that a person is who they are, and you can't make them do anything. And that goes from the decision to grow facial hair (which I hate) to making poor choices. So to just leave, no ultimatum or "big talk" or anything, seems a bit unfair to him. But him quitting in the now and not meaning it is unfair to me. I DO NOT want to think all is well and start a family only to have to leave in 5 years. Doesn't he need someone to try and tell him he needs help? What do I owe him in all fairness?

labbylover01

Im sorry I am not an expert here and I know there are many people on the board with much more insight to your problem. I would also like to know what they think because my situation is similar. I learn so much from just reading the posts.

cwohio

ANYONE telling him he needs help, if he does, will go in one ear and out the other. he's got to believe that he needs help and seek it. all you can do is voice your concern and know that if YOU have a problem with it then it is a problem. it's a tough thing to grasp - still had problems with it myself. just continue to read, go to meetings, come here and post. it will help you!

TexasGirl

So, in a way, I am making this too much about me then, right? I can see that maybe my thoughts have been for my need to feel like he understands why I [potentially] leave. But I guess, in accordance with what all I've read, whether he said it or not, he probably would understand it. Am I thinking right? That even when he either cried and begged me to stay or flipped out and called me nasty names, deep down he would know the reason. I think that's what y'all would tell me. So what it comes down to in my brain then is that I need to know with 100% absolute certainty that he is in fact an alcoholic. I think I can accept the aforementioned logic if I just really, really knew. So there again, I am proposing a "big talk" or ultimatum to convince myself that he is an alcoholic, not for him. Hmmm...this is all so confusing. I wish so badly that some objective person could say, "M, he IS an alcoholic, and if being married to an alcoholic is something you can't accept, you need to leave," OR "M, he just hasn't quite grown up yet. His friends like to drink, and he's not ready to part with that lifestyle JUST YET. Stick around, he'll grow up in a couple of years."

minnie

Hon, does it really matter what label you put on him and his behaviour? Bottom line - can you accept who he is RIGHT NOW and project 10 years into the future and see yourself STILL accepting him exactly as he is now?

My ex still doesn't accept why I left 10 months ago and he has now had another relationship (engagement, no less!) go down tha pan and STILL hasn't accepted that any of this, or his 2 previous marriages, have anything at all to do with his drinking and the behaviour that surrounds it.

Cynay

Yea what Minnie said.....

No one can tell you one way or another, it has to come from deep inside of you. Your the only one that can answer what your tolerance will be and it does not matter really if he is an A or not. Can you live with who he is right now, and if he chooses to drink more can you live with that too? What are you looking for in a father for your children?

Personally I dont see anything wrong with expressing your concerns.... letting him know what you see for your future. If he is imature and has not grown up, that might be what he needs to drink more responsibly.... but if he is an A it will not matter, nothing you do or say will keep him from drinking.

But the bottom line is what you want from life and does he fit closely to those wants. What else is there that you dont want other then the drinking??? maybe make the pro/con list... I do suggest Al-anon, it might really help answer more of the questions... nothing like a f to f group discussion.

Fire_Wind_Rain

This is very, very true. I have come to the acceptance that no ultimatum will work in my situation, & I don't have the ways and the means to get out right now. However what I DID do, is look at what behavior he is doing that I just simply could not tolerate anymore, and told him so, and told him just how I planned to react should those behaviors continue in order to maintain my self preservation.

The biggest one here is our sex life which suffered as a result of his rages, verbalness, physical impotence as a result of his drug useage, and sex addiction. I would just "do the deed" because I felt that was the right thing to do since I am married, and as a result was losing myself & going slowly insane in the process. I talked it out with him, told him things that were bothering me, how they affected me, and how I planned to change what I was doing, and how I was handling things. As a result, I've had no sex life for around 3 months now. He also doesn't say "I love you" anymore, nor does he give me a kiss, a hug, or even a compassionate touch. Even still, I feel like a huge weight has been lifted, and sure enough, none of his behavior has changed, so I could of gone on for 3 months being used and abused, but I didn't, and therefore am nurturing just a touch of my spirit.

Does that make sense?

Zoey

May I add just one thing, do not talk if he has been drinking. They mostly do not remember.

AA says if your drinking causes you problems, then you are alcoholic.
Such as if you miss work because you drank the night befor. If you get a DUI, or write bad checks because of drinking, get in fights when that is not normal sober.
Bottom line still is, can we live with it?????
Just my own personal thought, if anyone drinks more than 3 drinks per day, I would expect it to get worse. Always exceptions.

TexasGirl

Wow, I see something now that I had not seen before. I really struggled with the labeling thing...it was my thought that if I could accurately label him, I would know what to do. But now I see that even if he is not an A, even if he is not addicted to alcohol, he might very well continue drinking heavily the rest of our lives, which would still make me unhappy. I see that "growing up" might not necessarily mean "slow down" to all people. Wow. Revelation. But he does promise me that he will not drink like this "when" we have kids. A heavy drinker might be able to do that, and an A might not, and I don't like that gamble. I think this needs resolved now.

I want to thank you all for your replies. You cannot believe how invaluable your thoughts are to me. This has become even more special to me today because...I did it...I attended my first Al-Anon during lunch. While I know that many of you appreciate the face-to-face aspect of meetings, I found it very intimidating. Everyone was so nice, but I could never tell these people the thoughts I am able to share with you all just because you don't know me. The whole meeting thing was weird, but I guess I'll give it the old Girl Scout try a few more times...

walkingtheline

Good for you! Doing the happy dance for you!

And yes, DO go back. Some people are just friends you've not gotten to know yet.

Zoey

Another just what I have heard, they the A, say childern will fix them, usually doesn't, just more people affected. You no doubt have read enough to have caught that. Just makes it harder for Mom.
Go with your gut.
Best Wishes always and keep trying Al-Anon, and keep coming back here.

Cynay

ACK children never "fix" anything.... let me tell you that. I did not plan to have children (glad now that I had my daughter) but once she was born and I expected the big "change" Well lets say that I was divorced by the time she was 2. Children can bring couples closer, but they can alot add ALOT more stress and strain to a marriage.

My daughter is now attending Al-anon with me to cope with her A Father.

Keep going back for awhile to Al-anon, trust me I dont know anyone that hated AA/Al-anon more then I did, but it grows on you like a fungus *giggles teasing* It does help though.

minnie

Good for you in going to your first meeting!! It is intimidating at first, but WTL is right - these are friends you just don't know yet. Try 6 before you make a decision. What have you got to lose?

herewegoagain

I really struggled with the whole label thing too....I couldn't figure out whether or not my husband was an alcoholic. I was told (and also finally learned) that the important thing wasn't whether or not the label fit, what mattered was how I was reacting to his drinking. THAT was the true issue, because my reactions were making me really unhappy.

I still don't know for sure whether or not he is, and I've quit trying to decide. Instead I'm working on me. Now when I do see him drinking I work really hard at not letting it bother me. It's his business, not mine. I'm not always successful, but I am making progress at it.

cwohio

slowly you will know if the meeting you are attending is the right fit for you. i didn't share a lot but have continued to go to meetings and have become friends with several folks and have been able to share more as time has gone on.

steve11694

ultimatums can work but you you do not know if it will work in your situation

at an intervention, if the addict refuses treatment, the bottom line is read and followed through.

without following through, your bottom line is worth zero.

Jazzman

TG - I can only convey my experience w/ ultimatums for you to consider/be aware of/ add to the list of stories...

I did use the ultimatum, three times. Not because I was trying to effect the outcome of my axw addiction, but because I was communicating MY boundaries, what I CAN live with and what I CAN"T live with. The 1st time, I got the response I expected, then we talked separation, then a month later she entered rehab, then later relapsed. The second time, exact same drill as the 1st time. The third time, we were separated and will be divorced in October.

I guess it depends what YOU expect to achieve with the ultimatum approach.