So much resentment towards recovering AH
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chaos City
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I have to work on true forgiveness.
I admit, I am that I can sometimes be that hammer
This post has helped me see certain things, I couldnt see before for that I am thankful
dax: I am trying to forgive my H for infedility, I dont think that I have achieved forgiveness, I will never forget. It was with a co-worker. He is still working with this women. I cant help my thoughts, I think that is normal, I will never forget the pain I felt, I think that is normal also. I have one thing that does make me feel better about the whole thing, is that I know my H was reaching, reaching for anything to make him feel better, I know he was at a very low point in his life. You may think this is wierd, but I have learned alot from this affair. I would never have searched for SI, who suggested SR, I also never would have went back to alanon. I have sought out recovery for myself, because of his indescretion, for that I am thankful. This women he was having an affair with, was and is a very sick women, she was 6 months pregnant with her husbands kid in a parking lot waiting for my H to go on break so she could get in the truck with him for a half hour in broad daylight. She was so desperate she was willing to put her unborn baby at risk, only trusting that my H didnt have any kind of disease that could be harmful. My H was is very sick and sought out for someone else who is just as sick. I dont hate her anymore, I hope that she seeks help for herself and her three kids.
It will be two years in April, In May I found SI and SR, a month later Alanon. (although I havent gone to a face to face meeting in a long time) I have learned alot reading Melody Beattie and coming to this site. My H also quit drinking for six months to try to prove his love. I didnt know then he needed to do it for himself.
I just keep seeing things I need to do for myself to change and I am beginning to think that I owe my H one big apology for things I have done. When I do apologize to him, I hope he can be more forgiving than I have been in the past. I will always be a WIP (work in progress).
Great thread, thank you
I admit, I am that I can sometimes be that hammer
This post has helped me see certain things, I couldnt see before for that I am thankfuldax: I am trying to forgive my H for infedility, I dont think that I have achieved forgiveness, I will never forget. It was with a co-worker. He is still working with this women. I cant help my thoughts, I think that is normal, I will never forget the pain I felt, I think that is normal also. I have one thing that does make me feel better about the whole thing, is that I know my H was reaching, reaching for anything to make him feel better, I know he was at a very low point in his life. You may think this is wierd, but I have learned alot from this affair. I would never have searched for SI, who suggested SR, I also never would have went back to alanon. I have sought out recovery for myself, because of his indescretion, for that I am thankful. This women he was having an affair with, was and is a very sick women, she was 6 months pregnant with her husbands kid in a parking lot waiting for my H to go on break so she could get in the truck with him for a half hour in broad daylight. She was so desperate she was willing to put her unborn baby at risk, only trusting that my H didnt have any kind of disease that could be harmful. My H was is very sick and sought out for someone else who is just as sick. I dont hate her anymore, I hope that she seeks help for herself and her three kids.
It will be two years in April, In May I found SI and SR, a month later Alanon. (although I havent gone to a face to face meeting in a long time) I have learned alot reading Melody Beattie and coming to this site. My H also quit drinking for six months to try to prove his love. I didnt know then he needed to do it for himself.
I just keep seeing things I need to do for myself to change and I am beginning to think that I owe my H one big apology for things I have done. When I do apologize to him, I hope he can be more forgiving than I have been in the past. I will always be a WIP (work in progress).
Great thread, thank you
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Join Date: May 2004
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To everyone on this thread, maybe I am seeing things, but thought someone said "clancy is right about forgiveness". Nope I am not good with forgiveness.
I read good things from others, and I give credit to who ever said it.
I did know because of my barroom years that drink reves up the sex drive for men, and they had enough already. I did not get that from drink, I had little sex drive till I met my hubby. I enjoyed the barroom fun, loved men as big brothers, loved hearing them talk. I wanted men friends, not knowing men only want sex from females.
Not that these men were in the bar for sex, they were there to drink and brag and talk sports.
Now, JUST MY OPINION, but I would say females should not go to bars, let the boys go and be boys with boys. So where to meet men? ??
A man wrote a book about men, when he was on TV, he said, "Why you gals want one of us is beyond me, but seems you do, then you make hard work of marriage".
By that time I had read tons of stuff attended Al-Anon and AA, had all credits to be a Drug and alcohol counselor, plus courses on psychology so I thought,, how true, but the females were furious with him. Yes! he was married.
Shucks, I strayed here.
Forgiveness, yes, I could forgive my hubby almost anything. Think in back of my mind I knew bar room heavy drinkers might have one night stands. So I accepted that it might happen . I accept much in life as human nature.
Now my nasty side, I am never going to forgive some people.
I try to be extremely carefull who I become friends with. Fact is, not everyone can like me. Fact is, some are looking for someone to hurt.
Sorry, I am thinking again, thinking makes me dangerous.
So THANKS to those that wrote good and wise things about forgiveness.
Feel free to disregard my babbling.
I read good things from others, and I give credit to who ever said it.
I did know because of my barroom years that drink reves up the sex drive for men, and they had enough already. I did not get that from drink, I had little sex drive till I met my hubby. I enjoyed the barroom fun, loved men as big brothers, loved hearing them talk. I wanted men friends, not knowing men only want sex from females.
Not that these men were in the bar for sex, they were there to drink and brag and talk sports.
Now, JUST MY OPINION, but I would say females should not go to bars, let the boys go and be boys with boys. So where to meet men? ??
A man wrote a book about men, when he was on TV, he said, "Why you gals want one of us is beyond me, but seems you do, then you make hard work of marriage".
By that time I had read tons of stuff attended Al-Anon and AA, had all credits to be a Drug and alcohol counselor, plus courses on psychology so I thought,, how true, but the females were furious with him. Yes! he was married.
Shucks, I strayed here.
Forgiveness, yes, I could forgive my hubby almost anything. Think in back of my mind I knew bar room heavy drinkers might have one night stands. So I accepted that it might happen . I accept much in life as human nature.
Now my nasty side, I am never going to forgive some people.
I try to be extremely carefull who I become friends with. Fact is, not everyone can like me. Fact is, some are looking for someone to hurt.
Sorry, I am thinking again, thinking makes me dangerous.
So THANKS to those that wrote good and wise things about forgiveness.
Feel free to disregard my babbling.
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: houston, tx
Posts: 323
shannon- I am looking out for myself. If I say nothing my angry grows. Hey we have been married 40 years. He knows if I am upset-the tension could build for days -and then a huge blow up, now If i find him in a lie[usually by omisson] I call him on it right awy. To me to not do so would be enabling. Then the air is cleared and we can move.on I would hate to be in a marriage where I had to keep quiet when things were unacceptable to me. I am gald you are saving your marriage to an active alcoholic. If you can be happy married to someone who is relaible to be unreliable, more power to you. To me having been there, it was the worst way to live. He was causing extreme emotion harm to me and our 2 young children Of course you can use the 'sick' factor but sick people need to seek help. I could not live with a man who continued to drink. I was about to leave when he got help. Now some would immediately leave a cheater. i chose to stay and work it out. to each his own. But to say 'oh my poor sick alcoholic is just acting like an alcoholic does- is to me enablinng him. dax
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Hey Dax,
I don't believe I ever used the phrase, "my poor sick alcoholic." I know I didn't because I don't feel like he's a "poor sick alcoholic." Yes, I believe it's a disease with very common symptoms, but his "suffering" is by his choice. By accepting his behavior, I know longer expose myself to getting hurt. No expectations and therefore, no dissappointments. And the best part, he's learning and growing all on his own. No ultimatums from me to "force" his recovery.
Either way, I have no problem talking openly with my husband about things that bother me. He knows how I feel about everything b/c I've NEVER kept quiet when things were unacceptable. That being said, I've never had to go at him "with both barrels" because I prescribe to the Golden Rule. It seems relatively simple to me. If I want him to treat me with respect, then I'd damn well better give him respect. If I don't want him screaming at me and rubbing my nose in my mistakes, well then I'd better damn well not scream at him and rub his nose in his crap. That's what I was trying to say in my earlier post.
Have you ever been forgiven for a fault or failing? It's a wonderful feeling... something that's definetely worth passing on. I'm sure your husband would be grateful.
-Shannon
I don't believe I ever used the phrase, "my poor sick alcoholic." I know I didn't because I don't feel like he's a "poor sick alcoholic." Yes, I believe it's a disease with very common symptoms, but his "suffering" is by his choice. By accepting his behavior, I know longer expose myself to getting hurt. No expectations and therefore, no dissappointments. And the best part, he's learning and growing all on his own. No ultimatums from me to "force" his recovery.
Either way, I have no problem talking openly with my husband about things that bother me. He knows how I feel about everything b/c I've NEVER kept quiet when things were unacceptable. That being said, I've never had to go at him "with both barrels" because I prescribe to the Golden Rule. It seems relatively simple to me. If I want him to treat me with respect, then I'd damn well better give him respect. If I don't want him screaming at me and rubbing my nose in my mistakes, well then I'd better damn well not scream at him and rub his nose in his crap. That's what I was trying to say in my earlier post.
Have you ever been forgiven for a fault or failing? It's a wonderful feeling... something that's definetely worth passing on. I'm sure your husband would be grateful.
-Shannon
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: houston, tx
Posts: 323
Well all the rest of the family including me do not have to make a list of amends to make because we say we are sorry right away- to my husband too if I have done him a wrong. I am not going to apologize to him when I catch him in a lie amnd let him have it. Yes my tolerance for his unacceptable behavior is about nile since the affair was discovered. And you know what- if I did the things he did to me - I would go by the golden rule and expect to be called on it big time. otherwisr e to me that would be enabliing me to get away with bad behavior.
I have forgiven my husband for countless things he has done including ruining our finances so we will will both need to work -probably until we are in our late 60s. I am glad you are so happy in your wonderful loving alcoholic marriage. You have you act together more than I ever would be able to do living with a drunk. I don't know if it takes a saint or an insane one to proclaim they are making it with an active alcoholic. Probably a little of both.
We have been married 40 years. You are really out ot touch if you think a marriage can last that long without countless'I'm sorry" and compromises. We are a short tempered family .. My children's friends used to be afraid of my husband because he would get mad and yell at us. It didn't bother us because we knew in 5 minutes , he would calm down. I have to close all doors and windows when the Florida Gators play. My husband getsa so mad at the refefs , you can hear his yelling several acres away. I just accept he will always do this and close the windows. Oh I would never yell during a game/
dax
I have forgiven my husband for countless things he has done including ruining our finances so we will will both need to work -probably until we are in our late 60s. I am glad you are so happy in your wonderful loving alcoholic marriage. You have you act together more than I ever would be able to do living with a drunk. I don't know if it takes a saint or an insane one to proclaim they are making it with an active alcoholic. Probably a little of both.
We have been married 40 years. You are really out ot touch if you think a marriage can last that long without countless'I'm sorry" and compromises. We are a short tempered family .. My children's friends used to be afraid of my husband because he would get mad and yell at us. It didn't bother us because we knew in 5 minutes , he would calm down. I have to close all doors and windows when the Florida Gators play. My husband getsa so mad at the refefs , you can hear his yelling several acres away. I just accept he will always do this and close the windows. Oh I would never yell during a game/
dax
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I am glad you are so happy in your wonderful loving alcoholic marriage. You have you act together more than I ever would be able to do living with a drunk. I don't know if it takes a saint or an insane one to proclaim they are making it with an active alcoholic.
Step One, I'm powerless.
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Friendof bill- Actually saying I'm sorry is the first step. It seems like for the 12 stepping alcoholic they often think that is all that is needed. And actions speak louder than words. If you just change trhe negative behavior and do not say you are sorry- something to me is missing. I think there is always going to be a gap of what the alcoholic thinks is the correct amend and the person wronged is expecting. But since it is really only for the alcoholic so he can move on, the wronged person is often left with???????? what amend???????????????? The whole amend thing is a mine field. dax
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I find myself acting similar too. My AH is NOT recovering, so i don't know if that makes a difference, but I "pick" at him. We have this "under our breath" war going sometimes. Example: He tood the dog to the vet Saturday and asked if I wanted to go. I told him that I had a bunch of cleaning to do. Well, I started with the kitchen, and started on the refrigorator wich took a good hour! I was in the frig when he came home and I heard him mumble sarcasticly to the dog that he thought I was cleaning the house while he was gone. Of course I hadn't GOTTEN to the living room yet, since there was so much to do in the kitchen. Then he saw me. You know how it goes. It just puts me in a rotten mood, then there are sarcastic comments flying all day. I hate it!
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Dax,
It sounds like no amount of amends making from your husband would ever be enough for you to forgive.
Whether they apologize, amend thier behavior perfectly, give up thier life savings to you, never step foot out of the house again?..somewhere, sometime you have to make a decision to forgive him or move along without him.....what more do you want from him..the air in his lungs?
Make a choice to let go of the stinkin' anger and resentment.
It sounds like no amount of amends making from your husband would ever be enough for you to forgive.
Whether they apologize, amend thier behavior perfectly, give up thier life savings to you, never step foot out of the house again?..somewhere, sometime you have to make a decision to forgive him or move along without him.....what more do you want from him..the air in his lungs?
Make a choice to let go of the stinkin' anger and resentment.
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Join Date: Mar 2003
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Friendof bill- -you are so obssessed with me being angry and that my poor alcoholic hubby is just getting browbeat day in day out. Which he is not not. Just because I disagree with you and your precious 12 step program , you assume a lot. And Minnie is correct- it is my problem not yours if I an still angry. She has gotten her act together and moved on. She is great recovery example. And she knows enough to let others do it however they chose or chose not to. dax
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Dax,girl yup ya went and did it.lol,You say in another posts,telling another,you are really out of touch if you think a marriage can last that long without countless im sorrys....Im not that far behind you in years of marriage.Almost 38.different strokes for the many different folks,yet again .I cannot remember when both hub and i have said im sorrys,to each other.Course our past is gone all forgiven,and we treat each other,alot better today.We are not perfect,of course,thats a given.We dont put ones head above another.Throwing ego out da window.For us this is important.When one goofs up,changed behaviour is better than any im sorrys.Humans mess up,goof up,thats a given too.Understanding of each others is more important,that telling each other,im sorry.Actions speak louder than words.And today i dont feel that anyone needs to say im sorry to me.I dont personally require this.I know by their ,changed,behaviour that they are.And accept what they can give.No demands,on my part.All do the best that we can in da moment.This i trully believe.
Felt that its good to see differences here,.Tis what makes the world go around and around.
Felt that its good to see differences here,.Tis what makes the world go around and around.
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chaos City
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I personally dont want to hear I am sorry from my H anymore, he has said it so many times, it meant nothing to me, so there was no forgiveness on my part. How could I truly forgive, if I thought his apology was just hot air.
Since I have read and read and continued to read some more, I have learned alot. I also realize that half of the apologies that he gave me, was out of him feeling bad, because my expectations of him disappointed me and he knew this and felt bad and apologized. Since I have absolutely no expectations of him anymore, I hear I am sorry alot less. He was constantly apologizing for him being him and because I didnt accept him for him and this is something I see now and can work on.
Also, once I quit trying to change him and accept him for who he is alcohol and all, I dont get as mad as often. My expectation and acceptance are shifting, it is taking a long haul to understand, but I think I am getting there.
I hope this makes sense to someone other than me
Since I have read and read and continued to read some more, I have learned alot. I also realize that half of the apologies that he gave me, was out of him feeling bad, because my expectations of him disappointed me and he knew this and felt bad and apologized. Since I have absolutely no expectations of him anymore, I hear I am sorry alot less. He was constantly apologizing for him being him and because I didnt accept him for him and this is something I see now and can work on.
Also, once I quit trying to change him and accept him for who he is alcohol and all, I dont get as mad as often. My expectation and acceptance are shifting, it is taking a long haul to understand, but I think I am getting there.
I hope this makes sense to someone other than me
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Originally Posted by dax
Friendof bill- -you are so obssessed with me being angry and that my poor alcoholic hubby is just getting browbeat day in day out. Which he is not not. Just because I disagree with you and your precious 12 step program , you assume a lot. And Minnie is correct- it is my problem not yours if I an still angry. She has gotten her act together and moved on. She is great recovery example. And she knows enough to let others do it however they chose or chose not to. dax
It's all about Y-O-U!
I think I need a 12 step Dax-Anonymous program.
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Join Date: Mar 2003
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Emily and cap-I guess because my husband rarely says that he is sorry, it is important to me. But you are right about one thing- an 'I'm Sorry "from a drinking alcoholic is meanless. I had forgotten he used to say that a lot when he was drinking. dax
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Hi All,
Well since im back posting today i thought i would add my thoughts here. I am always torn by alcoholism being a disease. Is it? Is it a real disease or simply a character flaw or weakness? I believe it is a disease. It afflicts some, and is painful for all of us around it. If it is as i believe, a disease, should'nt their be some pity, for the alcoholic.
I am not talking about one that abuses or causes harm, (but even then is it the person or the person afflicted with the disease.) but the every day pain in the ass, BS, that goes along with living with a drunk. Does anyone think one chooses to live that way? If the choice was to never have the urge to drink, or be an alcoholic, what do you think the choice is?
I lived with an active alcoholic for 18 years prior to her getting help. I live with one still. (minus the drinking) I know what it is like to throw a verbal jab that really is meant only to cause pain. It also is an unfair shot. How does treating one bad make us feel better? Has it for you? Has it for anyone here? I mean really feel better about the situation? Id be surprised.
Marriedtoit, I think, actulally believe, Gabe is right. Not drinking is in a way "showing you". I think everyday they dont drink is showing you. We dont fool ourselves and think it is just for us. It is for them to. But it's also for us.
It is to easy for us to remain upset. It is painful to think what drinking may or may not have done to the kids, family, friends etc. But all we can hope for is they stop. Once they stop it serves no purpose to beat them up over something they no longer do. We can still carry hurt, but they do also. Rather than thinking of making sure he has as much pain as you do, remember he probably does. You feel bad after a one cheap verbal shot, imagine the pain, once sober, he feels for putting you through years of it.
Hope you feel better, good luck to you both.......
Well since im back posting today i thought i would add my thoughts here. I am always torn by alcoholism being a disease. Is it? Is it a real disease or simply a character flaw or weakness? I believe it is a disease. It afflicts some, and is painful for all of us around it. If it is as i believe, a disease, should'nt their be some pity, for the alcoholic.
I am not talking about one that abuses or causes harm, (but even then is it the person or the person afflicted with the disease.) but the every day pain in the ass, BS, that goes along with living with a drunk. Does anyone think one chooses to live that way? If the choice was to never have the urge to drink, or be an alcoholic, what do you think the choice is?
I lived with an active alcoholic for 18 years prior to her getting help. I live with one still. (minus the drinking) I know what it is like to throw a verbal jab that really is meant only to cause pain. It also is an unfair shot. How does treating one bad make us feel better? Has it for you? Has it for anyone here? I mean really feel better about the situation? Id be surprised.
Marriedtoit, I think, actulally believe, Gabe is right. Not drinking is in a way "showing you". I think everyday they dont drink is showing you. We dont fool ourselves and think it is just for us. It is for them to. But it's also for us.
It is to easy for us to remain upset. It is painful to think what drinking may or may not have done to the kids, family, friends etc. But all we can hope for is they stop. Once they stop it serves no purpose to beat them up over something they no longer do. We can still carry hurt, but they do also. Rather than thinking of making sure he has as much pain as you do, remember he probably does. You feel bad after a one cheap verbal shot, imagine the pain, once sober, he feels for putting you through years of it.
Hope you feel better, good luck to you both.......
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