minnie

Honeybunch, no wonder you are angry and frustrated. What meaningful effort is your hubby making towards rebuilding your marriage?

splendra

I don't know if it makes you look like anything but yourself. What he did is not on you it is on him. I believe what you need to know will come to you as you can really handle it. You know some things just cannot be forced no matter how hard we push.
I believe that deep inside we do know the answers but, we have to get quiet and let the answers surface.

Live

harley,

cool for you to have the great good sense to be making financial plans should you need them and on continuing counseling on your own.

Everyone I have ever talked with about being betrayed has said that one of the most painful parts was that everyone knew but them. And being angry that none of their friends would tell them.
I stand by what I said before I WOULD not want to be chatting with one of the mistresses unknowingly or have them in my or our lives unknowingly.
You are in a cruel position.
But you have always exhibited an intelligent, strong and sensible approach as this has developed.
One of the issues I needed to take into my counseling was that I was not allowed to be angry...as you have mentioned...being shouted over, out-angered, blah, blah, blah.
In every relationship there will occur anger. Only communciation, listening, being heard and discussing it with respect works.
And I am jealous, I want a hot tub!

live

harleygirl92156

He has put effort into rebuilding the marriage. He no longer lies to me about anything in the PRESENT. I have not seen any evidence that this is not true. He is different since getting sober, much more patient, less anger, more understanding, just all around better EXCEPT when it comes to any discussion about ANYTHING he did while drinking. This includes other events that don't involve betrayal. He has secrets, admits he has secrets and also maintains none of this will be discussed. His boundries. To hell with me.

I don't know what the secrets are, but I figure if he has told me of a one year long affair with a bar fly *****, what he won't discuss must be much worse. My biggest fear is we have 4 young granddaughters and if it is something that would affect them (you know what I mean) then I need to know so I can keep them safe. Two of them spent the night with us this weekend and I was very uncomfortable. I just couldn't let them out of my sight with him alone and I refused to let him change a diaper. Now this man has never show anything but undying love for these girls and I have no reason to suspect anything, there is just the nagging wonder there. If it is something so terrible that he can not discuss it with me or tell me then it has to be REALLY bad compared to what I do know. That is the worst thing I can think of so of course it is on my mind. I don't think that is what it is, but the doubt and wonder is still there. There are several other things I can think of, but that is the only one that SCARES THE HELL OUT OF ME.

He doesn't realize that what I imagine and worry about is most likely far worse than the truth.

CAPTAINZING2000

HG


nice to see you in here.

I'd be in this site if, they told me I've recovered.


I like everyone in here too much to ever leave.

LOL

Well, til they run me off anyway


hugs

Chris

walkingtheline

Someone mentioned a marriage counselor. The quote above jumped out at me...perhaps you need to find a better way to deal with disagreements-or at least a different one, a counselor might be just the ticket for that.

Live

ummm, I see your point walkingtheline. In my marriage we have a rule that we do not raise our voices to one another, insult one another or disrespect one another. I was brought up with that example from my parents, so I know it is possible. And I have it now. Sometimes, we need to take time to ourselves when we are frustrated, but we always meet back at the table and discuss it openly, honestly, and respectfully. Each listening to the other, to understand and find solutions.

CAPTAINZING2000

yeah,

I go along with that rule Unless the house is on fire!!!!

gelfling

HI HG.

You in the beginning of this post said his counsellor told him that he doesn't need to tell you anything. Were you there and hear this? I ask this because when my husband went into rehab, his confession of infidelity was a part of his recovery program and his admission to me in front of our counsellors was a must. The past had to become the past and not an ever present mysterious event hanging over anyone's head. We had to bury it. He was taught to forgive himself but not forget and I was told I should forgive and forget. And that was tough to do.

After all you've been through, do you really want to know who, what, when, where. Ignorance is bliss. Everyone else and everything else be damned. Torturing yourself doesn't make it any better.

. Making threats to make your life hell if you filed for divorce is not rebuilding the marriage. IMO lots of stuff is missing on his part as to working a full and healthy program. Threats aren't part of it.

We all have a perverse sense of curiosity. Him telling you this stuff on your anniversary just isn't right. What does he hope to accomplish and what do you want to get out of finding out?

You're expressing lots of questions and showing a lot of fear. What's your gut telling you?

HockeyMom

((((((Harley))))))

You don't want to hear this, but from my personal experience - knowing all the gorey details DOES NOT HELP YOU FEEL BETTER. It only gives you more to obsess about.

You need to decide if you can accept this situation, with the information you've been given. Most likely, anything else you would find out would be worse than what you've already heard. Can you live with that?

I have decided, after finally convincing AH to tell me the truth about everything, I really don't like the truth. It was bad enough trying to live with the lies.

FriendofBill

Hg...


Are you in recovery?
It helps. Alot.

harleygirl92156

The counselor told ME it was his personal business and I had no right to ask any questions. The counselor told me "He told you he cheated on you and the rest is his personal business and he is not going to discuss it with you." End of conversation. That was it and hubby took that with him and refused to discuss it. Now, was I told I definately needed to be checked for STD's, NO, was I told these women still work with my husband every day and he maintains a close friendship with them, NO, was I told one of them was the daughter of a good friend and 25 years younger than him, NO. How do I know all this??? Small town, people talk and delight in telling you things they over hear. SAD. He tried to hide all this from me "to not cause me anymore pain." I say to save his ass and protect himself. No consideration for me.

As far as the yelling ranting and raving. I can talk in a calm quiet voice and if this subject it brought up, HE will yell, rant and rave over top of anything I try and say until I finally just quit. Mostly I want to know how he feels about it and how he felt about it then. He justs expresses anger, lots of it, directed toward me. What the hell did I do???? Have no clue as I am not to be informed about any of it because it is his PERSONAL BUSINESS. Now the counselor that said this was an alcohol counselor, NOT our marriage counselor. Our marriage counselor has a different take on it. Does not take sides on the issue either way, but also does not agree with him ranting over top of me which he has done in sessions and then walked out. The marriage counselor has seen how he reacts and has told me the stiuation APPEARS to be hopeless.......boy was that encouraging to hear.

harleygirl92156

Not really, if I find out I have the OPTION to deal with it or not. If I am not told, I must assume it is something worse than what I already know, A LOT worse and if that is the case I don't want to be in the relationship any longer. I guess the only real option to save the marriage is to come clean and let me decide for myself if I want to salvage the marriage. He says he doesn't want to tell me because he doesn't think I can handle it. HOW DARE HE THINK FOR ME, but then he has been doing that for years now hasn't he and up until now I let him.
Last night he said to me "I have to go get more dirt, you stay here and I will be right back." I just said OK with an attitude, because I didn't think it was right for him to DECIDE for me what I wanted to do. He immediately said "I didn't think you would want to go" How frickin' hard is it to ask. It wasn't too hard for him to TELL me. That is just an example, small example of how he treats me. He thinks HE knows what is best for me, makes decisions for me, tells me he knows how I think, or what I am thinking and in reality he has no clue. I now call him on this and he hates it. I can think and decide very well for myself and he is freaked out by that. When he says things like you stay here and I will go, I most likely will be in the truck when it leaves the drive just because he DECIDED I wanted to stay behind. What is with that???

Live

sorry for misunderstanding you harleygirl, please forgive!
hugs,
live

harleygirl92156

Also, I would like to hear it from him. I am tired of hearing about it on the streets from stranges. One of the most intimate things in a persons life is being thrown around the town on the gossip train and I am in the caboose and the last one to know a thing. I just want to hear something from him first that is all. I would think it would be the respectful thing to do. He knows it is all over and I will hear it and have heard it, but he has his heals dug in and will not give an inch. I guess I am not worth it to him. It is about trust and respect. I don't want the GORY details, just the admission that there were more and who they were. I have the gory details on one and that is quite enough. I don't need to hear about the sexual favors he got in the parking lot after work before he came home to supper with me any more. One of those tales is enough. I just want the basics. Who they were, type of affair and how long it lasted. That is it, that is enough, no more is necessary. Been there done that.
But it doesn't matter what I want or need. He is taking care of himself at my expense and he doesn't care a bit. He will protect himself to the end unless I show up with graphic photos and then he would say they were fake, I know it as well as I know my own name. I need to just get on with it, get things in order for myself and move on. Colorado is nice!!

dreamcatcher

Hi HG
I haven't been around in awhile. Thank God I have moved on. My story in a nutshell. Married 23 years, 3 great children. I have been cheated on, lied to and lost all my self respect. With Gods devine intervention my soon to be ex AH went to prision for 3 DUI's the last one he ran over someones foot. He has been gone 8 months. What I realized is that all these years I have been expected to let go of my core values of the person I truely am. The sayings "live and let go", detach, this person was driving a knife into my soul. I wanted to know the details, I wanted to try to understand why someone would do these things, maybe if I knew the whole picture I could go on. I lost a whole lot of self respect and self esteem. When I was given the opportunity to get out of the insanity it was easy to see I needed to be who I am and accept nothing less, the fight of fooling myself was over. Being cheated on and lied to is not what I am made of, I guess there are people out there that can overlook it or accept I know I am not one of them AND IT IS OK! I will live and life is going on just fine. I wish you all the luck, and I hope you can find the peace in who YOU REALLY ARE.

Zoey

HG....I hurt soo much for you. Partly because you live in a small town. I just feel small towns are deadly when these things happen. Wonderfull if there is no danger or chance for anyone to stray.
Are both your families living there?? Evidently your childern are there, and these grandchildern are step gc to him????

Even after our divorce I did not want to live where I might run into and have to speak to someone he may have or could be sleeping with. I loved him so very much and could have forgiven him most anything, but could not live where everybody knew his sex or love life but me. People have always been a problem for me.
The old saying, "The more I see of people the more I love dogs." is really true in my case.
I understand, but have no solutions. Take care.

Cynay

Before you read this remember... Take what you need and leave the rest ok?

I COMPLETELY understand the need to know the details... I have been cheated on and though the details of who, when, how long etc... hurt like hell, there is no way I would have been able to work through it and walked through the fire to come to the other side and forgive him... and yes I was able to forgive him. She oviously knows about me, I feel I should know about her too. Im not they type to blame the OW for an affair and to be honest I have been the OW in my lifetime too.. But for me I needed to know the truth.

Now this guy is 9 months sober (congrads) but he refuses to talk with you and refuses to go to counceling... he walks out??? It sounds to me like your doing the right thing to make plans to support yourself, from your post it sounds like he is in "dry drunk" phase and still is "life is about meeeee only" Alcholics are selfish people, dry drunks are no different and for my story.... it got alot worse in early sobrity because he did not have the buffer and became more distant and uncaring.

I do understand it has to be all about them in the begining and its hard when they turn to everyone else in AA and complete strangers and you become enmy ..

Please think about just taking your focus off the elephant and the man and putting it only on you... what do you want, what are you doing for your recovery, what do you need from him to recover... if he is not willing, then you can make decisions....

Beautiful

Yup. Our elephant has reappeared after a short hiatus in the backyard.

This flat out SUCKS!

When you find the answer, let me know. Same thing is happening to me: talk over me, talk louder at me, shift the blame to me, and, when all else fails.........drum roll, please................attack me personally so that I go away defeated! He WINS! I LOSE! Congratulations, AS*HOLE, you got the prize!

escape artist

Harleygirl, i haven't read the others' posts but i am sure they have lots of comfort to give you. I know that if I was in your shoes I would be absolutely insane with anger and grief and more anger and it would feel like i would be ready to implode. I have been there for a couple of issues that could be as devastating (ie. child molestation).

the only thing that worked for me and you might think this is crazy but I gave it to God. I said God, I cannot deal with this anymore and there is NOTHING i CAN do about it. So please take this from me because all i can do with it is LET IT GO. and i am more than sure that JUSTICE will be meted out to those who have it coming. there is nothing that i can do. call it karma, call it what you will. but that is what works for me. and then i started to not feel so insane anymore. sometimes i had to remind myself that i gave this to God and i refuse to dwell on it anymore because once again, there is nothing i can do about it. even if you do divorce, you are still going to be dealing with how you feel about this and how what you are feeling is affecting you. sometimes it helps to go over all those stickys again, and maybe try reworking the steps to get YOU through this-not him. your anger is screaming out victim mode. it is part of the alcoholic triangle- his actions may have treated you as the victim, but you do not have to stay there if you do not want to. hope you find your peace with this -since this is not the wild wild west anymore- except maybe in Texas- and you will not be able to act upon your anger in a more reactive way. good luck and keep posting!