trying to help
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: panama city florida
Posts: 3
trying to help
Hi, I'm trying to help a friend of mine and I found this board and I must say I'm REALLY impressed with the quality of the messages and the moderators! I've sent her the link and hopefully she will have time to read a little. (And if you're reading this, I'm glad you made it! Big HUGS)
Here are a couple of things that I've written her that in the little I've read that I haven't seen, and I hope that maybe in posting it might help someone else.
Part One:
You cannot help another person. And you cannot help another person that doesn't want to help themselves. So anytime you try to help A by being nice to him and letting him remain in the delusion that everything is ok in his world, is not helping him. A is a good person at heart, we have been doing A an injustice of not seeing him in his highest and best, but instead, have come to expect failure and dishonesty from him. And until we can "see" A as to the person God intended him to be, that A does not have a chance to rise up to that standard. You can either bring out the best or the worst from another person, depending on what your expectations are. So I think we are all going to learn something here from this even though it may not be easy at first. We need to focus on the good that A does have to offer and to know that he will come out of all this a better person overall.
This is all probably going to be harder on you than A right now, and it's going to take more effort from you than it is from him. Because I can tell that you are a good person at heart and that you will want to help him. And you can't. A can only help himself. You're not going to be able to say the right thing, do the right thing, be the right thing. You can only be strong and to be true to yourself and to your child and to what you need in your life. Yes, your child does deserve a father, but she deserves someone she can look up to. And she might right now, but that is because she sees with the eyes of a child and she sees that person that God meant A to be. When she gets older she won't. So the time to help your child and A is right now, right this minute.
You may just be A's saving grace if you're strong enough to step back and let A rule or ruin his life. This may or may not be the one thing that will wake him up and this may be the reason you were brought into his life. And I think you're strong enough and I also think that you will get as much, if not more, out of this if you can do it. It won't be easy at first, because we tend to stay with what's familiar and what we know. But we're going to have to step out of the box and to make a stand and to know what we stand for. You won't be alone, because we're all going to have to do it together. There is no way that B is going to be able to give A enough cars or money or jobs to make A happy, God knows he's tried. A can only make himself happy. C can only make herself happy. And it's time don't you think?
Tell him the truth in a calm and caring way that you just can't stand to watch him destroy himself and take you with him . Don't get caught up in this or try to give him any advice, because that's what he will want is to keep you enmeshed in it. Just try to stay detached as much as possible and tell him that he needs more help than you can give him. Keep it simple, keep it short and stand firm. It won't be easy I don't think. Since I've known B I've seen each and every family member try to help A individually. Maybe it's time they all join forces and refuse to help enable him anymore.
It hasn't happened it quite a while, but B can also go through what they call "dry drunks". But as soon as he or I recognize it (and point it out gently) he can get control of himself and then he recognizes it is not about "me" but about him. (Sometimes I get caught up in it though and it's not until I get back in touch with myself that I can see it for what it is.)
I'd reccomend Al Anon because you also have to work on yourself as there is something within you that allows this treatment from other people. And I do mean that in the nicest possible way. We are all very human and as women we tend to defer to men and the way they WANT to treat us, not that they always do of course, but they try to.
B and I have gone through several years of working things out between ourselves through HIS past problems (and mine, we all carry baggage with us from past relationships, even from parental relationships) and things really didn't start working for us until someone pointed out to me that there was something within ME that was drawing that behavior out of him! I found that hard to believe at first but nothing else had worked so far, so I thought I had nothing to lose at that point.
If B starts going through his "jealous" routine I don't point my finger at him and say, "if you just wouldn't do that then we wouldn't have any problems", instead I know that it is time to take a look at what I am doing or thinking. Most of the time is it simply the fact that I might expect that behavior from him and since I think that is how he is going to act or react, he has no choice but to act like that for me. It's a little complicated to explain it all here but it a FACT that life only treats us in the way we expect or ALLOW it to treat us. So at that point I know it's time that I expect a little better of myself or to know that I deserve to be treated better. It's actually more of philosophy and way of life that B and I try to live and it's actually the easiest thing in the world, only at the same time it's very very difficult because it's so contrary to the way we were raised and the way every one else believes. It's always so much easier to blame things on someone or something else, but in fact we create our own reality.
I'm sure you're scratching your head at this point:-) OK, I'll give you an example. You know B and I have lived together for 8 years and I kept thinking that he wouldn't marry me. It wasn't until I thought and felt better about myself that it allowed HIM to live up to the person I knew he really was (is). Once I felt like I was worthy enough to BE married, then B proposed easily and without my having to twist his arm.
And, even if you and A don't get back together if he gets sober, you have to realize that "where ever you go, there you are". Which means that is why we repeat disastrous relationships so many times. We keep thinking that if we change partners that it will change our lives but that very rarely happens. We always take ourselves with us into the next relationship and keep recreating the same things in one form or another in our lives. That's mostly why B and I both were so scared to commit to one another, because of what we each had been through, we didn't want to recreate that same relationship in another form. It's not always easy to see how they could relate to one another, but it's along the lines of looking for your father or mother in your mate. Sometimes you're looking for the father or mother you never had (or both even, we all have male and female parts of us), or certain aspects of the parent.
Here are a couple of things that I've written her that in the little I've read that I haven't seen, and I hope that maybe in posting it might help someone else.
Part One:
You cannot help another person. And you cannot help another person that doesn't want to help themselves. So anytime you try to help A by being nice to him and letting him remain in the delusion that everything is ok in his world, is not helping him. A is a good person at heart, we have been doing A an injustice of not seeing him in his highest and best, but instead, have come to expect failure and dishonesty from him. And until we can "see" A as to the person God intended him to be, that A does not have a chance to rise up to that standard. You can either bring out the best or the worst from another person, depending on what your expectations are. So I think we are all going to learn something here from this even though it may not be easy at first. We need to focus on the good that A does have to offer and to know that he will come out of all this a better person overall.
This is all probably going to be harder on you than A right now, and it's going to take more effort from you than it is from him. Because I can tell that you are a good person at heart and that you will want to help him. And you can't. A can only help himself. You're not going to be able to say the right thing, do the right thing, be the right thing. You can only be strong and to be true to yourself and to your child and to what you need in your life. Yes, your child does deserve a father, but she deserves someone she can look up to. And she might right now, but that is because she sees with the eyes of a child and she sees that person that God meant A to be. When she gets older she won't. So the time to help your child and A is right now, right this minute.
You may just be A's saving grace if you're strong enough to step back and let A rule or ruin his life. This may or may not be the one thing that will wake him up and this may be the reason you were brought into his life. And I think you're strong enough and I also think that you will get as much, if not more, out of this if you can do it. It won't be easy at first, because we tend to stay with what's familiar and what we know. But we're going to have to step out of the box and to make a stand and to know what we stand for. You won't be alone, because we're all going to have to do it together. There is no way that B is going to be able to give A enough cars or money or jobs to make A happy, God knows he's tried. A can only make himself happy. C can only make herself happy. And it's time don't you think?
Tell him the truth in a calm and caring way that you just can't stand to watch him destroy himself and take you with him . Don't get caught up in this or try to give him any advice, because that's what he will want is to keep you enmeshed in it. Just try to stay detached as much as possible and tell him that he needs more help than you can give him. Keep it simple, keep it short and stand firm. It won't be easy I don't think. Since I've known B I've seen each and every family member try to help A individually. Maybe it's time they all join forces and refuse to help enable him anymore.
It hasn't happened it quite a while, but B can also go through what they call "dry drunks". But as soon as he or I recognize it (and point it out gently) he can get control of himself and then he recognizes it is not about "me" but about him. (Sometimes I get caught up in it though and it's not until I get back in touch with myself that I can see it for what it is.)
I'd reccomend Al Anon because you also have to work on yourself as there is something within you that allows this treatment from other people. And I do mean that in the nicest possible way. We are all very human and as women we tend to defer to men and the way they WANT to treat us, not that they always do of course, but they try to.
B and I have gone through several years of working things out between ourselves through HIS past problems (and mine, we all carry baggage with us from past relationships, even from parental relationships) and things really didn't start working for us until someone pointed out to me that there was something within ME that was drawing that behavior out of him! I found that hard to believe at first but nothing else had worked so far, so I thought I had nothing to lose at that point.
If B starts going through his "jealous" routine I don't point my finger at him and say, "if you just wouldn't do that then we wouldn't have any problems", instead I know that it is time to take a look at what I am doing or thinking. Most of the time is it simply the fact that I might expect that behavior from him and since I think that is how he is going to act or react, he has no choice but to act like that for me. It's a little complicated to explain it all here but it a FACT that life only treats us in the way we expect or ALLOW it to treat us. So at that point I know it's time that I expect a little better of myself or to know that I deserve to be treated better. It's actually more of philosophy and way of life that B and I try to live and it's actually the easiest thing in the world, only at the same time it's very very difficult because it's so contrary to the way we were raised and the way every one else believes. It's always so much easier to blame things on someone or something else, but in fact we create our own reality.
I'm sure you're scratching your head at this point:-) OK, I'll give you an example. You know B and I have lived together for 8 years and I kept thinking that he wouldn't marry me. It wasn't until I thought and felt better about myself that it allowed HIM to live up to the person I knew he really was (is). Once I felt like I was worthy enough to BE married, then B proposed easily and without my having to twist his arm.
And, even if you and A don't get back together if he gets sober, you have to realize that "where ever you go, there you are". Which means that is why we repeat disastrous relationships so many times. We keep thinking that if we change partners that it will change our lives but that very rarely happens. We always take ourselves with us into the next relationship and keep recreating the same things in one form or another in our lives. That's mostly why B and I both were so scared to commit to one another, because of what we each had been through, we didn't want to recreate that same relationship in another form. It's not always easy to see how they could relate to one another, but it's along the lines of looking for your father or mother in your mate. Sometimes you're looking for the father or mother you never had (or both even, we all have male and female parts of us), or certain aspects of the parent.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: panama city florida
Posts: 3
Part Two:
As far as knowing where A is coming from, drinking comes from simply trying to fill a hole within us. That pain of feeling like we're not enough or trying to regain that spiritual wholeness or self-esteem. It's a little known fact but actually Alcoholics are some of the most truly spiritual people of all. And living in this life and this body and feeling disconnected from God actually drives people to drink to numb the pain of not feeling whole. You don't feel whole when you're not connected to God. I'm not talking about going to Church but feeling spiritual. There are a whole lot of people that go to church that aren't spiritual and there's a whole lot of people that are spiritual that never go to church. But you do have it right, what you need to know is how to act or not react to A.
Come on; tell me I'm right on this next one......Most of the time doesn't somebody act some way and don't we just usually have a knee jerk reaction and act right back to him or her? People can only change when we change ourselves. If you aren't doing the dance that they expect, they then have two choices. At that point, they have to change their dance or find someone else to dance with. I've written this whole letter just trying to make that one point, I just couldn't figure out how to say it!
And we, meaning me and B and possibly everyone else in the family, we need to see A for who God made him to be and not what A thinks he has to show us. And that's about the hardest thing to remember when they are acting out right in front of us! If we can hold the highest possible vision of A FOR A, then A has the opportunity to rise up to it. But if we keep thinking that A lies and drinks, then guess what? A is going to lie and drink. It's like we are all actors and this life is our stage and everybody gets to play the part we have assigned to them.
Usually the things we attract to us are only because we don't know who we really are, and I think you are just beginning to come into yourself. And there's nothing wrong with being a "B" sometimes in the right way. Men use the word when a woman is being strong and assertive and they don't know how to handle that. So get busy and don't worry about working on A or trying to fix him, think about what YOU want in your life and how you want to be treated. Write it out, get a notebook, keep a journal.
If you could have life any way you want it, what would you want? If you had the perfect mate, career, house, what would you want? Write it out, there's a lot of power in the written word. Be specific. If you're ordering a house, you don't want to just say "I'd like 3 bedrooms 2 baths" you want to design each closet, each light fixture, each view from the window, everything. The same holds true for everything in your life. Write out what you want to be yourself.
I'm starting an online class in January and our first assignment is to write about who we are. And I'm really having to think on that one, because who am I? How do I want people to perceive me? These are people that I will probably never meet in person and so they will only have what I write to go by. And I want to be truthful, yet I want to be magnificent! I don't want to be just my past history. You don't want to go around introducing yourself as "C, single wife and mother" because that holds you in that space. You want to be C the magnificent!
As far as knowing where A is coming from, drinking comes from simply trying to fill a hole within us. That pain of feeling like we're not enough or trying to regain that spiritual wholeness or self-esteem. It's a little known fact but actually Alcoholics are some of the most truly spiritual people of all. And living in this life and this body and feeling disconnected from God actually drives people to drink to numb the pain of not feeling whole. You don't feel whole when you're not connected to God. I'm not talking about going to Church but feeling spiritual. There are a whole lot of people that go to church that aren't spiritual and there's a whole lot of people that are spiritual that never go to church. But you do have it right, what you need to know is how to act or not react to A.
Come on; tell me I'm right on this next one......Most of the time doesn't somebody act some way and don't we just usually have a knee jerk reaction and act right back to him or her? People can only change when we change ourselves. If you aren't doing the dance that they expect, they then have two choices. At that point, they have to change their dance or find someone else to dance with. I've written this whole letter just trying to make that one point, I just couldn't figure out how to say it!
And we, meaning me and B and possibly everyone else in the family, we need to see A for who God made him to be and not what A thinks he has to show us. And that's about the hardest thing to remember when they are acting out right in front of us! If we can hold the highest possible vision of A FOR A, then A has the opportunity to rise up to it. But if we keep thinking that A lies and drinks, then guess what? A is going to lie and drink. It's like we are all actors and this life is our stage and everybody gets to play the part we have assigned to them.
Usually the things we attract to us are only because we don't know who we really are, and I think you are just beginning to come into yourself. And there's nothing wrong with being a "B" sometimes in the right way. Men use the word when a woman is being strong and assertive and they don't know how to handle that. So get busy and don't worry about working on A or trying to fix him, think about what YOU want in your life and how you want to be treated. Write it out, get a notebook, keep a journal.
If you could have life any way you want it, what would you want? If you had the perfect mate, career, house, what would you want? Write it out, there's a lot of power in the written word. Be specific. If you're ordering a house, you don't want to just say "I'd like 3 bedrooms 2 baths" you want to design each closet, each light fixture, each view from the window, everything. The same holds true for everything in your life. Write out what you want to be yourself.
I'm starting an online class in January and our first assignment is to write about who we are. And I'm really having to think on that one, because who am I? How do I want people to perceive me? These are people that I will probably never meet in person and so they will only have what I write to go by. And I want to be truthful, yet I want to be magnificent! I don't want to be just my past history. You don't want to go around introducing yourself as "C, single wife and mother" because that holds you in that space. You want to be C the magnificent!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: panama city florida
Posts: 3
I hope I haven't offended anyone here with an "I know it all attitude" because I'll be the first to admit I don't. I still learn and grow everyday. The original post was just part of the letter(s) I sent my friend, I left out all the parts about what a magnificent person I know she is:-)
This is an incredible board! I only found it by typing in addictions into google. I kept looking for something online for Al Anon since my friend is short of time to attend meetings.
My husband and I jokingly call our way of life the 13th step. When I met him, his first words to me were "I am an Alcoholic" and I said no way am I getting involved with this guy, I'm already in Therapy from being married to a sexually addicted person! I also came from an Alcoholic family and I knew what hell Alcohol could do to a family. But he was going to 2 AA meetings a day and had been sober 12 years and there was just something about him that attracted me :-)
8 years later, almost 9 now, we have grown so much spiritually and individually. And I realized along the way that "just" the alcohol was not the only problem because you also have everything that goes into making someone want to drink. And we struggled with his jealousy issues and I had to learn how to become my whole self. Somehow when we met (which was a miracle in itself let me tell you! God actually brought us together and I do mean really!) we saw the inner people that we were meant to be.
And I was very uncomfortable the first time I heard that somehow something I was doing was bringing out the very behavior I didn't want to see. There was just no way, but you know what? That's the only thing that worked for us. He tried therapy, he tried everything and he couldn't get past it. Once I learned to start being totally honest with him and grow spiritually, things started easing up a little bit. Just enough that we could see some light at the end of the tunnel.
Now sometimes if things get a little rough, then I get out my notebook and start writing. I start thinking about all the truly incredible things he's done for me and in his life and what a wonderful person he is, and I just try to stay there in that and let go and let God. And it works. We could have a fight and he could go to work mad and I get busy on myself instead of wanting to point my finger at him, and once I reach that place of peace inside me, something shifts. And he will come home a changed man because he felt the shift too. Once I could finally quit seeing him as having a jealousy problem was he able to let go of it.
Think of it as an old timey wagon wheel with the spokes going from the hub out to the rim of the wheel. The HUB can make just the tiniest move while the outside of the wheel will look like it moved a great deal. Can you picture that? If I can make that hub move just a little bit, then I know that the outside is going to move a whole bunch.
The A in the story is his son. And we are working to "see" him in a different way and yes, it's hard. I call her my friend instead of a relative because we've only met like 5 or 6 times but I see her for who she is becoming and somehow we are all sisters under the skin.
This is an incredible board! I only found it by typing in addictions into google. I kept looking for something online for Al Anon since my friend is short of time to attend meetings.
My husband and I jokingly call our way of life the 13th step. When I met him, his first words to me were "I am an Alcoholic" and I said no way am I getting involved with this guy, I'm already in Therapy from being married to a sexually addicted person! I also came from an Alcoholic family and I knew what hell Alcohol could do to a family. But he was going to 2 AA meetings a day and had been sober 12 years and there was just something about him that attracted me :-)
8 years later, almost 9 now, we have grown so much spiritually and individually. And I realized along the way that "just" the alcohol was not the only problem because you also have everything that goes into making someone want to drink. And we struggled with his jealousy issues and I had to learn how to become my whole self. Somehow when we met (which was a miracle in itself let me tell you! God actually brought us together and I do mean really!) we saw the inner people that we were meant to be.
And I was very uncomfortable the first time I heard that somehow something I was doing was bringing out the very behavior I didn't want to see. There was just no way, but you know what? That's the only thing that worked for us. He tried therapy, he tried everything and he couldn't get past it. Once I learned to start being totally honest with him and grow spiritually, things started easing up a little bit. Just enough that we could see some light at the end of the tunnel.
Now sometimes if things get a little rough, then I get out my notebook and start writing. I start thinking about all the truly incredible things he's done for me and in his life and what a wonderful person he is, and I just try to stay there in that and let go and let God. And it works. We could have a fight and he could go to work mad and I get busy on myself instead of wanting to point my finger at him, and once I reach that place of peace inside me, something shifts. And he will come home a changed man because he felt the shift too. Once I could finally quit seeing him as having a jealousy problem was he able to let go of it.
Think of it as an old timey wagon wheel with the spokes going from the hub out to the rim of the wheel. The HUB can make just the tiniest move while the outside of the wheel will look like it moved a great deal. Can you picture that? If I can make that hub move just a little bit, then I know that the outside is going to move a whole bunch.
The A in the story is his son. And we are working to "see" him in a different way and yes, it's hard. I call her my friend instead of a relative because we've only met like 5 or 6 times but I see her for who she is becoming and somehow we are all sisters under the skin.
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