I am giving this note to my husband...
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: US
Posts: 316
I am giving this note to my husband...
What I need…
$500.00 a week in cash to cover the mortgage and taxes.
Sober childcare 2 days a week for the summer.
I am hoping that is not too much to ask. I need to take control of my future. This is what I need from you in order to do that. If you can not commit to staying home with the kids and being Daddy (not John’s drinking buddy) then I will have them go to childcare while I am working this summer.
I am not going to fight with you about your drinking. Obviously you are unable to stop. I can put some boundaries in terms of how I am going to allow it to effect our children and me.
I am not going to fight with you about your gambling. I am, however, going to ask that you please allow me to create a budget that works for us. For that, I need $2000.00 a month from your paycheck in cash.
I know that we can’t talk about these things and that is so frustrating to me. I have done all that I can not to blame or shame or anger or disrespect you. It is time that I no longer let myself be a victim in your illnesses.
I need you to do these 2 things for me. If you can not, then we really do need to talk with a professional and figure out what to do next.
I love you…very much.
Jenny
$500.00 a week in cash to cover the mortgage and taxes.
Sober childcare 2 days a week for the summer.
I am hoping that is not too much to ask. I need to take control of my future. This is what I need from you in order to do that. If you can not commit to staying home with the kids and being Daddy (not John’s drinking buddy) then I will have them go to childcare while I am working this summer.
I am not going to fight with you about your drinking. Obviously you are unable to stop. I can put some boundaries in terms of how I am going to allow it to effect our children and me.
I am not going to fight with you about your gambling. I am, however, going to ask that you please allow me to create a budget that works for us. For that, I need $2000.00 a month from your paycheck in cash.
I know that we can’t talk about these things and that is so frustrating to me. I have done all that I can not to blame or shame or anger or disrespect you. It is time that I no longer let myself be a victim in your illnesses.
I need you to do these 2 things for me. If you can not, then we really do need to talk with a professional and figure out what to do next.
I love you…very much.
Jenny
too much on my plate!!
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: not kissing frogs anymore
Posts: 646
But hasn't he already proven to you that he can't stay sober while watching your children? It seems as though your asking for a lot in terms of him trying to stay sober two days a week; he may agree to, but actions speak louder then words.
If it were me I would just take my children to a sitter, I would be to worried about them.
It is a lot to handle, especially when children are involved.
Good luck!
If it were me I would just take my children to a sitter, I would be to worried about them.
It is a lot to handle, especially when children are involved.
Good luck!
1000 Post Club
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Recoveryville, USA
Posts: 1,297
Hi Jenny,
Well, since you asked for our opinion................
Caution: Tough-Love editing in progress.
Please know that I had a sponsor who was wonderful at editing my emails, letters etc to people, so I learned something along the way. I hope it doesnt hurt too much for you to read my critique, Just trying to help you see things that you may not have seen.
What I need…
(Dear Husband's name?)
$500.00 a week in cash to cover the mortgage and taxes.
Sober childcare 2 days a week for the summer.
(Youve already asked the day care issue of him, and he has already let you down..why asking again, expect it will be different 2nd time around?Thats the definition of insanity)
I am hoping that is not too much to ask. I need to take control of my future. This is what I need from you in order to do that.
(You can take control of your future with or without his help. Even if he doesnt give it to you, you have legal options and choices.)
If you can not commit to staying home with the kids and being Daddy (not John’s drinking buddy) (This sounds offensive.and angry...remember, sepreate the man from the disease).
I am not going to fight with you about your drinking.
Obviously you are unable to stop.
(This is a judgement and insulting. How do you know he will ever be unable to quit?)
I can put some boundaries in terms of how I am going to allow it to effect our children and me. (Yes you can! How about listing exactly what they are, without judgement or add;'l comments about him or his drinking?)
I am not going to fight with you about your gambling. I am, however, going to ask that you please allow me to create a budget that works for us. For that, I need $2000.00 a month from your paycheck in cash.
(be careful with that ASK word,,,HOw about saying "Id like to sit down with you to create a budget, lets meet on XXX date at XX time?". Be specific. Include him in on it, otherwise he may become angry at your attempting to control him.,is this merely a request that you can live without, or is it a boundary? A boundary is something that you are adament about and must be willing to enforce it?...
I know that we can’t talk about these things and that is so frustrating to me. I have done all that I can not to blame or shame or anger or disrespect you. It is time that I no longer let myself be a victim in your illnesses.
(Again, offensive and angry....How about " I feel that I cannot talk with you about resolving these problems and Im frustrated")
I need you to do these 2 things for me. If you can not, then we really do need to talk with a professional and figure out what to do next.
Again....is this a request or requirement? IF its a boundary, you need to state with the enforcement is. Logic probably indicates he will not give you what you are asking. He is an active alcoholic which means illogical, irrational, angry and controlling.
Perhaps you ought to suggest a professional right now?
I love you…very much.
(This line is perfect!!)
Good luck!
Well, since you asked for our opinion................
Caution: Tough-Love editing in progress.
Please know that I had a sponsor who was wonderful at editing my emails, letters etc to people, so I learned something along the way. I hope it doesnt hurt too much for you to read my critique, Just trying to help you see things that you may not have seen.
What I need…
(Dear Husband's name?)
$500.00 a week in cash to cover the mortgage and taxes.
Sober childcare 2 days a week for the summer.
(Youve already asked the day care issue of him, and he has already let you down..why asking again, expect it will be different 2nd time around?Thats the definition of insanity)
I am hoping that is not too much to ask. I need to take control of my future. This is what I need from you in order to do that.
(You can take control of your future with or without his help. Even if he doesnt give it to you, you have legal options and choices.)
If you can not commit to staying home with the kids and being Daddy (not John’s drinking buddy) (This sounds offensive.and angry...remember, sepreate the man from the disease).
I am not going to fight with you about your drinking.
Obviously you are unable to stop.
(This is a judgement and insulting. How do you know he will ever be unable to quit?)
I can put some boundaries in terms of how I am going to allow it to effect our children and me. (Yes you can! How about listing exactly what they are, without judgement or add;'l comments about him or his drinking?)
I am not going to fight with you about your gambling. I am, however, going to ask that you please allow me to create a budget that works for us. For that, I need $2000.00 a month from your paycheck in cash.
(be careful with that ASK word,,,HOw about saying "Id like to sit down with you to create a budget, lets meet on XXX date at XX time?". Be specific. Include him in on it, otherwise he may become angry at your attempting to control him.,is this merely a request that you can live without, or is it a boundary? A boundary is something that you are adament about and must be willing to enforce it?...
I know that we can’t talk about these things and that is so frustrating to me. I have done all that I can not to blame or shame or anger or disrespect you. It is time that I no longer let myself be a victim in your illnesses.
(Again, offensive and angry....How about " I feel that I cannot talk with you about resolving these problems and Im frustrated")
I need you to do these 2 things for me. If you can not, then we really do need to talk with a professional and figure out what to do next.
Again....is this a request or requirement? IF its a boundary, you need to state with the enforcement is. Logic probably indicates he will not give you what you are asking. He is an active alcoholic which means illogical, irrational, angry and controlling.
Perhaps you ought to suggest a professional right now?
I love you…very much.
(This line is perfect!!)
Good luck!
Wipe your paws elsewhere!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,672
(((Jenny)))
I think Friend of Bill has made many valid points. I hope you get the results you want, but as FOB says you're asking an active addict to behave like a healthy, responsible, and mature adult. Based on what I've read, your husband has shown you time and time again that he simply can't do that.
If those were my children, I would not, under any circumstances, give him a second chance. If you found your daycare worker or babysitter in a drunken state, would you give him/her a second chance? Absolutely not. Your husband is not capable of taking care of your children by himself, keeping them safe, or even meeting their daily needs. It's not healthy for them to stay alone with an active addict. What kind of example is this setting for your children? They may grow up to think that this is normal behavior and they may turn to the bottle themselves one day when the going gets rough. After all, children learn by example. Your children deserve much more than this.
You deserve much more than this, too.
Have you visited the AA forum? If not, I'd recommend you read some of the posts there by active addicts. It's clear that the most important thing in their lives is getting their next drink. This comes before family responsibilities, job responsibilities, financial responsiblities, all other aspects of their lives. It completely consumes their every thought, their every move. An active addict can think of nothing else.
It took me 23 years to realize this and 23 years to realize that I deseved more--much, much more. I hope you won't wait that long.
I think Friend of Bill has made many valid points. I hope you get the results you want, but as FOB says you're asking an active addict to behave like a healthy, responsible, and mature adult. Based on what I've read, your husband has shown you time and time again that he simply can't do that.
If those were my children, I would not, under any circumstances, give him a second chance. If you found your daycare worker or babysitter in a drunken state, would you give him/her a second chance? Absolutely not. Your husband is not capable of taking care of your children by himself, keeping them safe, or even meeting their daily needs. It's not healthy for them to stay alone with an active addict. What kind of example is this setting for your children? They may grow up to think that this is normal behavior and they may turn to the bottle themselves one day when the going gets rough. After all, children learn by example. Your children deserve much more than this.
You deserve much more than this, too.
Have you visited the AA forum? If not, I'd recommend you read some of the posts there by active addicts. It's clear that the most important thing in their lives is getting their next drink. This comes before family responsibilities, job responsibilities, financial responsiblities, all other aspects of their lives. It completely consumes their every thought, their every move. An active addict can think of nothing else.
It took me 23 years to realize this and 23 years to realize that I deseved more--much, much more. I hope you won't wait that long.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: US
Posts: 316
YIKES...I should not have read your replies before my coffee.
Well too late. I gave it to him.
I have alternative childcare and I will use it.
At this point I really don't care if I hurt his feelings.
I am sorry I posted this....I need to learn that some things I just need to do and not ask opinions of...especially when it is too late to change the outcome.
Well too late. I gave it to him.
I have alternative childcare and I will use it.
At this point I really don't care if I hurt his feelings.
I am sorry I posted this....I need to learn that some things I just need to do and not ask opinions of...especially when it is too late to change the outcome.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 727
Thank you for sharring,Jenny.Do what ..you..know best.If it doesn't work out,then you learn to do things differently.No perfection..on this earth,lol.Im all for guidence,sharring etc.But its,God,and i who makes the,final decisons in my life.Some decisions that ive made,through prayer/meditation,folks said it wouldn't work out,and it has.No i didn't do it /say it,the "right" way,probably.,but alls well..no matter.The thing is that im learning growing.Can't let folks do my talking for me.I learn.,and share.Try this and that out see what works for me....Life.!!!!!!!Keep on,keeping on.Living the way that you know best,in recovery.
Thanks for letting me share,
God Bless,take care!!!!!!!
Thanks for letting me share,
God Bless,take care!!!!!!!
1000 Post Club
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Recoveryville, USA
Posts: 1,297
Originally Posted by JennyK
At this point I really don't care if I hurt his feelings.
I am sorry I posted this....I need to learn that some things I just need to do and not ask opinions of...especially when it is too late to change the outcome.
Sad.
Supply Manager
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleaverville
Posts: 2,898
Jenny...something I have learned the hard way is to "sleep on it" I have taken many actions, written many letters and said many things that I wish I could take back. Part of who I am is that I cannot trust my own thinking. This is as true today as it was 10 years ago when I walked into Al Anon. My own thinking caused me to be the unhappy person I was. And I still get called on things today by people I trust and by those I barely know. I don't get offended by it and I do consider what I am told.
Another thing, boundaries are not about molding another person. They are about taking care of ourselves. For example, I don't talk to my son when he is drunk, if he wants to talk with me he can do it sober. Changing how you handle situations in your own best interest (action) is going to do more to get your husbands attention than any number of words.
Hugs,
JT
Another thing, boundaries are not about molding another person. They are about taking care of ourselves. For example, I don't talk to my son when he is drunk, if he wants to talk with me he can do it sober. Changing how you handle situations in your own best interest (action) is going to do more to get your husbands attention than any number of words.
Hugs,
JT
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
...especially when it is too late to change the outcome.
I'm not suggesting that you do either one but I think one letter is only a tiny part of an ongoing relationship so there are plenty of opportunities for you to say you've thought more since you wrote it - IF that's what you want.
I think the most important thing is that you say what you know to be true. You can know that YOU no longer believe he can quit drinking, that is something you can know and say with full integrity, it referes to your current beliefs not the future. Would you want to say that?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,955
I wholeheartedly agree with JT.
I have regretted doing more things than I care to mention because I didn't "sleep on them".
Giving yourself time between "reaction" and "action" is very valuable.
That being said, I don't think there was anything wrong with the note you gave your husband. It was an honest account of what you would like to get from him.
I think you know that he's not a safe person to leave your children with due to the fact that he's still drinking.
I'm glad you have alternative childcare.
I have regretted doing more things than I care to mention because I didn't "sleep on them".
Giving yourself time between "reaction" and "action" is very valuable.
That being said, I don't think there was anything wrong with the note you gave your husband. It was an honest account of what you would like to get from him.
I think you know that he's not a safe person to leave your children with due to the fact that he's still drinking.
I'm glad you have alternative childcare.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 491
Originally Posted by FriendofBill
Hi Jenny,
Well, since you asked for our opinion................
Caution: Tough-Love editing in progress.
Please know that I had a sponsor who was wonderful at editing my emails, letters etc to people, so I learned something along the way. I hope it doesnt hurt too much for you to read my critique, Just trying to help you see things that you may not have seen.
What I need…
(Dear Husband's name?)
$500.00 a week in cash to cover the mortgage and taxes.
Sober childcare 2 days a week for the summer.
(Youve already asked the day care issue of him, and he has already let you down..why asking again, expect it will be different 2nd time around?Thats the definition of insanity)
I am hoping that is not too much to ask. I need to take control of my future. This is what I need from you in order to do that.
(You can take control of your future with or without his help. Even if he doesnt give it to you, you have legal options and choices.)
If you can not commit to staying home with the kids and being Daddy (not John’s drinking buddy) (This sounds offensive.and angry...remember, sepreate the man from the disease).
I am not going to fight with you about your drinking.
Obviously you are unable to stop.
(This is a judgement and insulting. How do you know he will ever be unable to quit?)
I can put some boundaries in terms of how I am going to allow it to effect our children and me. (Yes you can! How about listing exactly what they are, without judgement or add;'l comments about him or his drinking?)
I am not going to fight with you about your gambling. I am, however, going to ask that you please allow me to create a budget that works for us. For that, I need $2000.00 a month from your paycheck in cash.
(be careful with that ASK word,,,HOw about saying "Id like to sit down with you to create a budget, lets meet on XXX date at XX time?". Be specific. Include him in on it, otherwise he may become angry at your attempting to control him.,is this merely a request that you can live without, or is it a boundary? A boundary is something that you are adament about and must be willing to enforce it?...
I know that we can’t talk about these things and that is so frustrating to me. I have done all that I can not to blame or shame or anger or disrespect you. It is time that I no longer let myself be a victim in your illnesses.
(Again, offensive and angry....How about " I feel that I cannot talk with you about resolving these problems and Im frustrated")
I need you to do these 2 things for me. If you can not, then we really do need to talk with a professional and figure out what to do next.
Again....is this a request or requirement? IF its a boundary, you need to state with the enforcement is. Logic probably indicates he will not give you what you are asking. He is an active alcoholic which means illogical, irrational, angry and controlling.
Perhaps you ought to suggest a professional right now?
I love you…very much.
(This line is perfect!!)
Good luck!
Well, since you asked for our opinion................
Caution: Tough-Love editing in progress.
Please know that I had a sponsor who was wonderful at editing my emails, letters etc to people, so I learned something along the way. I hope it doesnt hurt too much for you to read my critique, Just trying to help you see things that you may not have seen.
What I need…
(Dear Husband's name?)
$500.00 a week in cash to cover the mortgage and taxes.
Sober childcare 2 days a week for the summer.
(Youve already asked the day care issue of him, and he has already let you down..why asking again, expect it will be different 2nd time around?Thats the definition of insanity)
I am hoping that is not too much to ask. I need to take control of my future. This is what I need from you in order to do that.
(You can take control of your future with or without his help. Even if he doesnt give it to you, you have legal options and choices.)
If you can not commit to staying home with the kids and being Daddy (not John’s drinking buddy) (This sounds offensive.and angry...remember, sepreate the man from the disease).
I am not going to fight with you about your drinking.
Obviously you are unable to stop.
(This is a judgement and insulting. How do you know he will ever be unable to quit?)
I can put some boundaries in terms of how I am going to allow it to effect our children and me. (Yes you can! How about listing exactly what they are, without judgement or add;'l comments about him or his drinking?)
I am not going to fight with you about your gambling. I am, however, going to ask that you please allow me to create a budget that works for us. For that, I need $2000.00 a month from your paycheck in cash.
(be careful with that ASK word,,,HOw about saying "Id like to sit down with you to create a budget, lets meet on XXX date at XX time?". Be specific. Include him in on it, otherwise he may become angry at your attempting to control him.,is this merely a request that you can live without, or is it a boundary? A boundary is something that you are adament about and must be willing to enforce it?...
I know that we can’t talk about these things and that is so frustrating to me. I have done all that I can not to blame or shame or anger or disrespect you. It is time that I no longer let myself be a victim in your illnesses.
(Again, offensive and angry....How about " I feel that I cannot talk with you about resolving these problems and Im frustrated")
I need you to do these 2 things for me. If you can not, then we really do need to talk with a professional and figure out what to do next.
Again....is this a request or requirement? IF its a boundary, you need to state with the enforcement is. Logic probably indicates he will not give you what you are asking. He is an active alcoholic which means illogical, irrational, angry and controlling.
Perhaps you ought to suggest a professional right now?
I love you…very much.
(This line is perfect!!)
Good luck!
Jenny, I know its so hard to deal with an A... wishing you the best always.
1000 Post Club
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Recoveryville, USA
Posts: 1,297
Thank you CodeMaster, for your kind words.
Jenny..you may not be ready for tough love yet, but I think you are ready for some self-love...dont you?
Its hard work to learn to love ourselves again, but it is possible and absoultely necessary.
Do you go to al-anon?
They loved me until I learned to love myself.
Jenny..you may not be ready for tough love yet, but I think you are ready for some self-love...dont you?
Its hard work to learn to love ourselves again, but it is possible and absoultely necessary.
Do you go to al-anon?
They loved me until I learned to love myself.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: US
Posts: 316
Originally Posted by FriendofBill
Thank you CodeMaster, for your kind words.
Jenny..you may not be ready for tough love yet, but I think you are ready for some self-love...dont you?
Its hard work to learn to love ourselves again, but it is possible and absoultely necessary.
Do you go to al-anon?
They loved me until I learned to love myself.
Jenny..you may not be ready for tough love yet, but I think you are ready for some self-love...dont you?
Its hard work to learn to love ourselves again, but it is possible and absoultely necessary.
Do you go to al-anon?
They loved me until I learned to love myself.
I apologize for my immature reaction to your very loving and well crafted response.
I do not attend alanon for a variety of reasons.
This week I just had it. I was on the verge of telling him to find a new place to live for the summer. I needed to give him a warning, and this note was the follow up to a conversation we had earlier in the day.
He "said" that he agrees with everything and that he wants to be sober and responsible more than anything in the world. Yet, I have heard that before.
This ploy, the note, at least buys a few weeks of him "trying" really hard so I can figure out what to do when he falls back into his old habits.
In terms of the childcare...I posted very rapidly about the sequence of events. He has always been sober with the kids until this week. Sat morning I called him on it and told him I was finding alternative childcare and I left the note for him Sat night while he was at work...so it was not really a second chance...more of a reminder of about how serious I was.
I have NEVER been this close to ending my marriage. I am so loving and so supportive and I know how to take care of myself, AND I have also HAD it with his selfish and immature and sick behavior.
I will give him a chance to do as he says he will, ONE MORE chance and that is it. I do believe that he wants to be a sober person. I also know that he is not finding the right path. Less than 6 months ago he was at the doors of rehab, unemployed and in massive debt. Today he has a good job and is not drinking very much and has no debt...of course he is also still drinking some and has a horrid habit of gambling away any cash. I don't feel like I am "acting insane" by stating my expectations in writing and then HOLDING TO IT. I will do it this time. I am strong enough and I am able enough. He knows it.
So, again, I do really apoligize for my sarcasm earlier in this tread, it has not been a good day for me...or good week.
I DO know myself and I was NOT myself this weekend. And I also appreciate your support and words of self love. You are wise.
Jenny
Wipe your paws elsewhere!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,672
AND I have also HAD it with his selfish and immature and sick behavior
Dealing with an alcoholic is hard enough, but dealing with an alcoholic who also has a gambling problem must be too much to bear. I hate to see you struggling so, and the codie in me wants to fix your situation for you because I care about you. So if I offended you in any way, please accept my apology.
Caring for the 3 little bears
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Oz
Posts: 509
JennyK, I know how you feel. I understand your reluctance. I would like to remind you, if you do end up feeling like you have to separate, it doesn't mean it is the end of your marriage. It doesn't mean it is the end of the world. And, things could get worse before they get better.
My AH and yours are a lot alike, I think. They both verbalize their desire to stop drinking. Thank God they both acknowledge that. That's why I have always had hope that mine will get well. Sometimes a very small glimmer of hope. However, it took me 14 years to find the courage to separate from him. I always thought I could live with the disease. It took me that long to realize I can't. And, I WON't ANY LONGER. This separation has been the best thing I could have done for me and my children. And, I am also hoping, the best thing I could have done for him - to give him the freedom to do whatever he wanted to do and now he is finally facing the consequences of his actions without my involvement. I couldn't do that living in the same home. Some can, I can't.
Just know that you will know when the time or if the time is right. In the meantime, I hope you can make some changes in your own life and find peace and happiness very very soon.
Someone has posted this phrase to me on several occassions and I think now might be an appropriate time to post on one of your threads... Nothing changes if nothing changes.
Take care.
My AH and yours are a lot alike, I think. They both verbalize their desire to stop drinking. Thank God they both acknowledge that. That's why I have always had hope that mine will get well. Sometimes a very small glimmer of hope. However, it took me 14 years to find the courage to separate from him. I always thought I could live with the disease. It took me that long to realize I can't. And, I WON't ANY LONGER. This separation has been the best thing I could have done for me and my children. And, I am also hoping, the best thing I could have done for him - to give him the freedom to do whatever he wanted to do and now he is finally facing the consequences of his actions without my involvement. I couldn't do that living in the same home. Some can, I can't.
Just know that you will know when the time or if the time is right. In the meantime, I hope you can make some changes in your own life and find peace and happiness very very soon.
Someone has posted this phrase to me on several occassions and I think now might be an appropriate time to post on one of your threads... Nothing changes if nothing changes.
Take care.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 727
Hey Jenny,ive been going to al-anon,for many years.Really i don't think that we'd be still together,if not for this recovery program..,and a closer realtionship with God.In these years,do i never say harsh words?Do i never get angry,at hub?Of course not.I sometimes let er rip.No longer into the daily battle,as i once was.And knowing that when i do get angy,and i,burst out,that its all ok.No expections,on any great outcomes.And yet,ya know sometimes hub and or i needed to hear what the other one has said.Yea it hurt.Truth hurts sometimes.Im not always serene,peaceful,wish i was..Still learning/growing.For me,when i take councel im looking to where folks are at.Do they have what im looking for?Is their marriage what i would want for myself?I was asked to find folks who have what i would want in my own life,5 years from now,in al-anon.For me this was great advice.To each their own.
Keep on,keeping on.
Prayers for you and your family.
Keep on,keeping on.
Prayers for you and your family.
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