The 13th Step
 

To me the 13th step is your next step to recovery. Getting your life in order and moving on.

13th step
 

I'd like to offer an another perspective. Alanon 2 years. I've seen alanon members come into the rooms on the brink of seperation or divorce, they and their partners in many cases have made it to the rooms of recovery as a couple, but there has been some damage done. The first year of sobreity is just as hard as the last year out there. It is a huge adjustment period, and equally difficult on a couple. I've also seen members lonly members from the rooms hit on newcomers. In one case the guy was in for a week before a long standing woman member member of AA went away fro the weekend with him. So who do you blame? However, having seen alanon comes in angry, and a year later or a bit more, that relationship begins to heal, or is on the brink of healing. When you thirteenth step someone in a seperated position, you rob people and families of a chance to heal, dashing any new found ground they have made. On the other hand, in some cases people do come from long standing unhappiness and/or lonliness, I get it. Couples seperate for a while as sometimes recommended by the book of AA itself, some will reconcile, some will not. I do feel however that seperation in a newcomer situation wether the AA member or the family member is a newcomer, is not an excuse to rob these people of a fair fighting chance to let program work its magic. I
feel like you are damaging much more than just the potential individual. You are in fact also damaging AA and its reputation. I've also seen huge setbacks from this on the Alanon side. Meaning peopel who were doing well, in their own recovery in Alanon, just learning to trust, just beginning to "come around" "come back" get strong, totally obliterated in their own recovery by this type of behavior. These people are fed that it is their hope. They are told to trust. They are told to "give space" for the good of their qualifier. they do this out of love. When a situation like this occurs, they feel betrayed. You can say it's the individuals and not the program and in many many cases it is. Hell you cant stop them - all you can do is advise them. just another perspective.

Please keep in mind that the Big Book was written MANY decades ago - the first edition came out in 1939 - when attitudes and expectations for women were much different. It has a lot of wisdom in it, but you must sift it out of the times and societal norms in which it was written.

Personally, I think that chapter is crap.

I read that chapter as Grin and Bear It wives.


No thanks!

Get well, do your recovery etc etc and I'll be over there -----> if you want me back.

its all over the world...if you have low self esteem..it happens...I could go on about this subject...but everyone preys on something that would BENEFIT them...no?

13th step....hummm, if not fullfilled in all the steps/traditions(its an every day stuggle to keep sober) , STEP 13 is around the corner..the casket?...

I find this very interesting....

Well, I guess I don't have to worry, the only guy in my meetings is an adorable 80-something!. He even said in a meeting once it was hard for him sometimes because he doesn't feel he can call anyone outside of a meeting for support because he is worried that a spouse of one of the Al-Anon ladies might get the wrong idea. I thought that was so sweet and respectful!

I posted this in another section, perhaps it really belongs in this thread.

Hi, I'm new here and I have no where else to go, so I'll tell you my story. My wife of 16 years grew up with parents who were alcoholics and divorced. During her teens her only sibling committed suicide, later in life her first husband walked out on her, to say she's had a rough life would be an understatement.

Her father went to AA and became sober (I hope I use the right terms and don't offend anyone, if I do remember I'm confused), he died a couple of years ago and she was real close to him, he lived with us for his last few years. His death hit her real hard, and he was sick for a few years prior to that. In that time we had our own difficulties, we've been to a couple of marriage therapists, but it was like she wasn't really "there". In that time I started to also see a personal therapist, I didn't want any issues I may have interfere with our marriage. It was hard to get any emotion out of my wife, it's like she built a wall around herself so she would appear strong.

Over the winter we separated briefly, in that time she joined Al Anon, she wrote me a beautiful and heart felt letter in hopes that we haven't gone to far, she was excited for her new journey and really wanted me there by her side for support. I was enthusiastic to say the least, we got back together and we were doing good, I found the woman I had married and fell in love with, and I fell in love all over again.

Sorry, it's not a happy ending. During this period she started to go to more and more meetings, she had 5 or 6 books around she was always reading, she was writing notes all over the place, I would ask her how things worked, but I didn't want to pry, she would give me half answers, or say it was personal, ok, I get it, but she was starting to get distant emotionally. She starting spending a lot of time with her sponsor, she would either be out with her sponsor, or on the phone with her sponsor, she even stopped going to her part time job during the week (she works full time weekends).

One day out of no where she asks for a divorce. She has admitted to having "feelings" for her sponsor, and I understand this happens, my therapist tells me she's had lot a patients "fall in love" with her, it's happens when you share like that. It became very apparent to me that while I was falling in love all over again she was starting to withdraw, she was using Al Anon and her sponsor for emotional support, she didn't allow herself to trust me with her feelings. Her sponsor actually is a marriage therapist, so her sponsor knows exactly where we were in our relationship, and yet her sponsor is now in a relationship with my wife.

My wife insists they only have a typical sponsor/sponsoree relationship, yet I know this isn't true, I live in her fathers old apartment and one day I went to get something out of my car and saw them kissing and fooling around through the window. She tells me her sponsor isn't doing anything morally or ethically wrong, the thing is I can't call her a liar because I believe she actually believes that. It just seems to me if you are a sponsor you're probably familiar with the concept of emotional attachment of the sponsoree, and would try to explain that to them. As a Marriage therapist, you really, really should know better.

I don't know if I have a question really, well actually maybe I do, where do you go if you are the spouse of a family member of an alcoholic? I love my wife and our family (we have 3 boys between 8 and 12), I can't help but think she's disillusioned, and I would really hate for her to wake up in a couple of years and realize what she has done, I've tried to explain it to her, but you know how it is when you fall in love, even your closest friend and confidant for half your life is obviously wrong, they just don't understand.

Thank you for using the correct word -- which almost no one in the program does!

T (technical writer/editor in a previous life)

WoW! You know I relate to what Andy said here most. I am a new comer. I do inderstand that there are pros that are really broken & peps that will take advantage of this, but victim? Takes 2 to play the game in or out of recovery! Here's the deal. I am a 46 yr. Old woman, new to recovery yes, but I've been a woman my whole dang life! In life, everyday I face challenges & adversity. It's how the program I live gives me the tools to deal with these things that make the difference. If I lose the want/need to use the tools, then i may be in trouble. I am now seeing an 'old timer' 21yrs clean! I knew there was a chance we'd run into disapproval, but I had know idea MY fine group of people would honesty brand us with a scarlet letter & seem to want to hang him! The judgment from others affect my recovery way more then the 13 stepping! And I sit and think "no wonder relationships inside the program usally don't work!" It may just be the bs from the program! I kinda feel like I have to go to the streets if I want to persue any romantic relationship! Ive been out there, I say no thanks! Come on! Nothing changes if nothing changes. I love that i have s relationship with someone I can share my new way of life with! Someone that understands it. I was honestly going to go out and 13 step on my damn own if he decided he couldnt do it. A victim I'm not, not of him anyway! So It's not for everyone & itd something to pray about for sure. But to spit all the glares & gossip, I continue to walk onto that room with my head high, because it is MY program. Please continue to keep caring, but also BE careful, as just maybe by trying to protect we end up hurting even more. :thanks

NewComer,

This is a very old thread, started in 2005, and the last post was in 2011. If you are just looking for someone to validate your relationship, I suggest your change your focus and focus on your recovery. I think relationships between newcomers and people with "time" is generally a bad idea--in fact, I agree with the suggestion that people new to recovery avoid all new relationships for a year. I know couples in AA who have waited until the newly sober one was a year sober before dating.

But if you are determined to disregard that suggestion, then I suggest you work on the FACT that many people are going to disapprove. It's called living life on life's terms. But whatever you do, don't allow your relationship--or other people's feelings about it--derail your recovery. That is within YOUR power, even if other people's reactions are not.

I suggest you might get more helpful responses over on the alcoholism forums. We do have quite a few people in recovery from alcoholism (I'm four and a half years sober), but this forum is primarily for friends and family of alcoholics. You are welcome here--just think you might get more helpful responses on the other forums.

Might as well throw my 2 cents into this ancient thread since I took the time to read some of it without noticing the date.

In short, the 13th step is what my EXAGF did about 2-3 months out of Rehab #2. She is an adult, and it takes two to tango. "He really understood her, etc." The final outcome was that she hurt herself, me, and her kids in the process. Soon after she relapsed.

It is your choice, but I can't see it as anything but unhealthy for a newcomer to sobriety.

On Track
 

"The admonition on pg. 119 of the Twelve & Twelve is an understatement of great magnitude."

The article quoted here has the Twelve and Twelve(Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions) as the source for reading on page 119 -120.
All of the posts/comments I have seen have been using page 119 of the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous as their reference point.

The context is quite different in the 12 & 12 and speaks more to "Thirteen stepping" than the same pages in the Big Book.