DJ*

After 15 years of marriage, I have finally decided that I have HAD IT with the grip that alcoholism has on my family. I told DH tonight that he has 2 choices, his denial or his family and I do mean it. I have already contacted my Employee assistance program for counseling and legal help.

My problem with Alanon is that I have never found a group that I feel I fit in at. I remember going there once and there was another new gal there too. People came up to her and offered her support...gave her books, etc. Nobody spoke to me. Last meeting was about a year ago. Everyone there looked haggard and worn and still putting up with the same old garbage from their AH's. I don't want to be like that. One woman did give me her phone number, but again, I did not feel comfortable there. Everyone was a lot older than me also. I have never found a meeting with other professional women and it's hard for me to relate to other groups. It is also hard for me to buy the "Alcoholism is a disease and the alcoholic has no control over it." line. I DO believe they can choose to change their behavior and it is not like having a disease like TB. You can't release your denial and be cured of TB. I also have a difficult time seeing how detachment works. I cannot let my AH get into another car crash, get killed, kill someone, get sued etc. I cannot watch our finances crumble. I think to modify someone's behavior, you must put their feet to the fire and be prepared to carry out all threats. What the hell do I know though? I have been doing this co-dependency thing for 15 years.

So what has changed? Well, my AH is just coming off of his latest bender. His last remaining parent died a few months ago and he cannot cope with the loss. He is depressed and also is in denial of that. He paces the house at all hours of the night and has horrible insomnia (and the alcohol obviously doesn't help that). Furthermore, he has let his business go to pot and I am supporting the family. Well, I can't pay all the bills on my salary alone, so he wants to sell the house that I adore and move to the sticks. 2 mos ago we refinanced the house to lock in a better rate and now he wants to pack it in. One day he has me signing legal papers and repainting and the next day he wants to cash out and head for the country? We have children and they are well aware of his irrational behavior. They are also now well aware that he is an alcoholic. He accuses me of poisoning the children against him. The other night he sat at dinner with his face about to fall into his plate, but apparently that was from exhaustion, not alcoholism.

I can't stand this denial! I can't stand the nights I have sat up hysterical that he won't come home this time. One time ( about a year ago) he showed up at 9am and when he jumped in the shower, I rummaged through his pockets and found a receipt from 7 hrs earlier for candy and condoms. He claimed he had been sleeping in his car because he was too intoxicated to drive. When I showed him the receipt, he claimed he had only paid for a purchase of a girl he had been bar hopping with. I called the store manager from the condom receipt and begged him to tell me who my AH was in the store with. He said it was a hooker. Subsequently, I went through all of our old credit card bills online and found a shady $250 charge from an "art studio". I called AMEX and they told me it was an escort agency. Though we went to marriage counseling and he did not drink a drop for 6 mos ("No big deal. I can do it anytime"), I have never forgiven him for these acts. Each drunken night that has followed has simply fueled my loss of respect for the man I once deeply loved and the father of my children. Need I even say that our sex life is non-existant....

I am under 40, make a very good living and I am a kind, honest, loving woman. I could have a second chance with a new man who doesn't drink in a second. I do not currently have anyone in mind, but it sure is tempting to start looking. Financially I could buy a small house for cash and provide very comfortably for my children.

Am I crazy to stay with this man any longer? Believe it or not, when he is not drunk he is a great guy. He promises he will never drink again, but doesn't want any kind of medicinal or professional help. I think he suffers from a chemical imbalance, situational depression (with the death in his family) and desperately needs professional help. He needs someone other than me to go to when the going gets tough. He needs someone he cannot project onto, which he tries to do with me over and over. I keep telling him this is not about me. I know his vow to not drink is only temporary. After living 15 years with him, I am aware if the pattern and he counts on me to replay the dance with him. He will not admit that his drinking is problematic. He has to know it is deep down (they do know on some level, don't they?).....he can't remember most of what happens when he is drunk. Lately, he has been extremely forgetful even during sober times. I feel like I have another child. Oh, and though he has been to AA, he is not like them. He is a binge drinker and unfortunately when people share at meetings, usually it's the chronic drinkers, so he absolutely thinks he is much better than them.

I love my kids so much too, but it is getting to the point where they are better off not being exposed to him. How do I decide what to do? I feel as though I am at a crossroads and I don't know where to turn.

Thanks for listening,
DJ*

whitetail fever

Being an Alcoholic whi is in recovery I believe you when you say he is a nice guy when he is not drinking. In response to your question would you allow anyone else in the world to be around your children drunk? Unfortunately tough love is what it took to get me sober and I am eternally grateful for my wife for protecting my children, from me, when I was drinking. Save your kids as a drunk parent cannot. A drunk parent is a parent in gene pool only. A drunk alcoholic only cares about the next drink / drunk and will do or say anything to get his enabler to keep enabling. You are the enabler and the sober parent. Stop enabling and start parenting. Good Luck. I know he is a good guy and I know you love him, so do the the right thing by him and take care of his children, until he is healthy enough to help.

bikewench

DJ...

Welcome to Sober Recovery.

I have to echo Whitetail about Alanon.

Even though you felt there was no fit for you there... I have to say that the message in Alanon is going to be the same in whatever meeting you attend... because it is about living with an alkie.... and that's the basic problem.

We dress up our dysfunction in many different ways... but time has proven that addiction works in predictable patterns... and when we understand these patterns.. we begin to be free of the power someone else's addiction holds on our lives.

Now.. we can stumble around for years trying to figure it out ourselves... but.. the problem is is that we have the disease as well... the controlling side of Codependancy.

Lucky for us though.. this forum is a one stop shop.
There is excellent help here and perspective... from all walks of life.

Glad you found your way here.

myselfagain

WOW !
Sounds like you have hit your bottom. How you handle it is up to you. Good luck in whatever you decide.
Take care,

wraybear

WOW! DJ, welcome! I started coming here last November for very much of the same reasons you describe... 15 years in an alcoholic marriage, children, I am supporting the family, car accident, nice guy, etc. About 7 years ago, I started the "healing" process. I went to one or two alanon meetings, but felt similar to what you describe.

I did start reading books. The first book I read, "The Booze Battle" by Ruth Maxwell helped me tremendously. Most recently read a book titled "Boundaries". Two years ago I started going to a support group at my church for families suffering with addiction. It has helped me tremendously. I learned to stop "taking care" of him. He is an adult, he should take care of himself. I stopped lying to friends/family about him. I stopped taking food to him in the bedroom when he was sick or too drunk to come to dinner. I left the house when he was drunk... even if that meant putting the little ones in their carseats and just driving around. I believe by doing these things, it helped my sanity. Helped me feel more "in control" of my own life in some small way I guess. Things got better, he went to his first rehab and then became a binge drinker. He used to drink every day and night. The past few years he would go 3-6 months without drinking, but then would drink uncontrollably for 1-2 weeks. Then there was an almost tragic car accident, with the children. He has never recovered, physically or mentally, 3 1/2 years later. We have been separated now for a little over 6 months, and he is in worse shape than ever. Been hospitalized about 6 times in the past 4 months because of alcohol. I also believe I am beginning to see some signs of brain damage in him... even though I rarely see him at all anymore. It is so sad.

I can tell you my life and the lives of my children are more peaceful since he has been gone. I did file for divorce last November but "sat" on the papers as I just wasn't ready to make that final step. However, I am now getting divorced. It was probably the hardest decision I have ever made. I know it's hard for people to understand that. Most of my friends/family think I should have never married him and/or should have left him years ago. I can not or will not recommend anything for you as only you can decide this.

For me, I struggle with how can it be God's will for me to raise these children alone? And, I also know he is a good man. But, the dream I have of that good man ever coming back, is starting to turn into a nightmare. Besides, I have been raising them alone anyway. He has not been available emotionally for years.

I am getting names changed on auto titles, name on house, etc. As, he is out there on the streets and could kill himself or someone else. And, my family could lose everything. I think this is what made me take the next step to divorce. Yes, I still love him... but, he is jeopardizing my future and our kids future. I have gone from anger and frustration to just feeling sorry for him now. He is in terrible shape and there isn't one damn thing I can do about his problem.

I would like to make one recommendation. You don't have to decide TODAY. Take baby steps. Start making a plan, getting things in order, and when you are ready to make some changes, it will go a little smoother if you have some other things in place. I started by getting my own checking account a little over a year ago. (I wish I would have done this one a long long time ago!) then, I started working on getting some of the debt paid off. Baby steps. You don't have to do it all at once.

Sorry, I turned your post into an all about ME ME ME post. I guess, I want you to know someone out here understands what you are going through. I can feel your frustration and anger. I hope you can find someone to talk to in person soon. I hope you can find some answers and peace very soon.

FormerDoormat

Evening DJ:

First, welcome to SoberRecovery. You're among friends. Friends who understand exactly what you're going through and how miserable it can be to live with an active addict. I wish I could tell you that everything will be OK and your husband will one day find the strength to obtain long-term sobriety, but the chances of that happening are slim.

Like you, I came to SoberRecovery looking for answers on how to get my AB of 23 years on a path to sobriety. I didn't get the answers I expected. I learned that I couldn't do a darn thing to make my AB change. I learned that the only thing I could change was myself. I also learned a lot about alcoholism--both by reading the posts of friends and family members of addicts and by researching alcoholism and learning the facts about how few people are able to maintain long-term sobriety. I also learned to stop living in denial myself and to stop waiting for my AB to change, because quite honestly, I'm certain that will never happen.

Now I'd like to make some observations and answer some of your questions:

You CAN have a second chance with a new man who doesn't drink, and you certainly deserve a healty, loving relationship, but that won't happen if you aren't willing to change.

Then I say, what are you waiting for???

I'd say yes. But I must have been crazier than you because it took me 23 years to break free. When I think of all the years I suffered, all the years my dauther suffered, all the years I wasted on a non-existent partner, all the things I did to try and fix my relationship, all the things I did to try and fix my boyfriend's addiction, I can only say that I must have either been insane or in serious denial. Perhaps I was both.

Oh, I'd believe it. That's the same story participants here convey again and again. But that doesn't make his drunken misbehavior OK or guarantee that he'll be a great guy if he ever becomes sober. In fact, many posters report that their sober A's still behave as badly as they did when they were actively drinking. So after years of waiting for that "great guy" to re-emerge they're disappointed to find out that drunk or sober the unacceptable behavior remains. What a slap in the face for many partners who've patiently to see that "great guy" re-emerge.

Well, I'm sure you've heard that before. I certainly have, but I don't buy it for one minute. I think he means it when he says it, but he simply can't overcome the desire to drink, especially if he refuses to seek any medical or professional help. His refusal to seek help is a clear indication that he has no desire to stop drinking, that he has not yet hit his bottom. And he may never hit bottom.

You got that right.

He is well aware that he has a problem and deep down he knows he's hurting you and your children. But alcoholism is a powerful disease and he's more concerned with finding his next drink than whether he's hurting you. Why don't you spend some time on the AA forum? The recovering addicts there often reveal that they were well aware they were hurting their families. But alcoholics tend to be selfish and self-centered and they often leave victims in their wake. So what can you do? You can choose to stop being a victim.

I felt like my AB behaved more like a child, and a misbehaving one at that, than an equal partner. In fact, once I stopped deceiving myself I realized that he hadn't been a partner to me in a long time. I also realized that I deserved a healthy, loving partner, so six weeks ago, I asked him to leave. And you know what? It was the best decision I've ever made.

They're all "not like them." They all think "I'm much better than them." There's a word for this behavior: DENIAL.

You've asked a lot of good questions, so now I'll pose one to you:

Are you ready to change?

DJ*

Wow...thanks everyone. I feel like I have gotten more support here than I ever got at any meetings I went to. I think my next step will be to find a good counselor (hopefully the EAP people will call today) and figure how to insulate myself and the kids emotionally and financially as much as possible. I have hit my bottom. I find myself daydreaming about being in my own house in the neighborhood I used to live in. I wonder what it would be like to have peace and freedom from this.

emily33

I want to welcome you to SR, this is a great place to start there are alot of wise people here.

Alanon is a great place to go, When I went to my first couple of meetings, I was desperate, I was depressed, my life was completely unmanageable. I was willing to try anything. What I realized was I cant do anything to help my H, to change him, I had hit my bottom, I had given up on him, and that was a very sad day, but it gave me the room that I needed to start working on me, I never understood detaching until recently, detaching for me was and is letting go of things that I have no control of. This was so hard, I never realized how many things I tried to control, alot of people may think this is crazy, but I came to a point where I thought I needed help trying to control my H, I saught marriage counseling for him of course not me, I was fine, I started going to his church, so he may get renewed (if you will). When I started SR, I thought people here would give me advice on what they did to make there AH listen.

I am so glad that I did all those things for him, because I listened, I learned, I gained tools that I need to help me when things get rough, now I am not doing those things for him, I am doing them for me, and I am growing, and I do not see my life without my friends at alanon, because here or at meetings, I can be me and I have not one time been turned away. I realized for myself, that the only person in the world that I have control of was me and my actions, I can now move forward one baby step to a time. But I am looking the right person now me, I know that I can move forward, I know that I can have a bright future.