Now I Don't WANT Control!!!!
Nature Girl
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
Now I Don't WANT Control!!!!
Well here's a twist...
My son has been struggling with his recovery, trying to stay clean but not too successfully, and he hasn't been to meetings or worked his program for a few weeks now (and it shows).
He came over Thursday night, crying and saying that he really wanted to stay clean and was having such a hard time doing it.
He said he just wanted a "normal" life like other people.
I listened to him, then asked him "So what are you prepared to do to get that? How much are you willing to sacrifice or surrender to get clean and stay that way?"
He said he didn't know but would think about it.
Well, he came over tonight again, and said that he had spoken to his boss (who knows about his addiction) and that he has asked the boss to let ME pick up his pay every day, and that he figured I could buy him his pack of cigarettes and give him $10 for coffee and lunch and pay his rent out of it, and hang on to the rest.
We talked about this, and I said that I wouldn't do it unless he was prepared to do something more substantial for his recovery, like going to daily meetings and getting a sponsor and working his program again.
I told him my reason for this was that I knew he would just give me an excuse when he wanted his money and I did not want to be put in the position of trying to decide if he was lying or telling the truth. We tried this years ago with a bank account that we both had to sign for withdrawl, and it didn't work out well at all....and I am not going through that again.
I think this is fair...he thinks I am not helping him. I am looking out for my own best interests and recovery, and his recovery has to be second to mine....as I see it.
And he did ask to go to church with me tomorrow...well that's a start and was his choice, but it's not enough to me.
Do you think I am being unfair?
Isn't is strange that after all the years of wanting control, that I really really do not want it now. Thank you God.
My son has been struggling with his recovery, trying to stay clean but not too successfully, and he hasn't been to meetings or worked his program for a few weeks now (and it shows).
He came over Thursday night, crying and saying that he really wanted to stay clean and was having such a hard time doing it.
He said he just wanted a "normal" life like other people.
I listened to him, then asked him "So what are you prepared to do to get that? How much are you willing to sacrifice or surrender to get clean and stay that way?"
He said he didn't know but would think about it.
Well, he came over tonight again, and said that he had spoken to his boss (who knows about his addiction) and that he has asked the boss to let ME pick up his pay every day, and that he figured I could buy him his pack of cigarettes and give him $10 for coffee and lunch and pay his rent out of it, and hang on to the rest.
We talked about this, and I said that I wouldn't do it unless he was prepared to do something more substantial for his recovery, like going to daily meetings and getting a sponsor and working his program again.
I told him my reason for this was that I knew he would just give me an excuse when he wanted his money and I did not want to be put in the position of trying to decide if he was lying or telling the truth. We tried this years ago with a bank account that we both had to sign for withdrawl, and it didn't work out well at all....and I am not going through that again.
I think this is fair...he thinks I am not helping him. I am looking out for my own best interests and recovery, and his recovery has to be second to mine....as I see it.
And he did ask to go to church with me tomorrow...well that's a start and was his choice, but it's not enough to me.
Do you think I am being unfair?
Isn't is strange that after all the years of wanting control, that I really really do not want it now. Thank you God.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Ann,
I don't think that's unfair. I think he needs to learn to do this on his own. I know if I asked someone to hold my cigarette money for me it just wouldn't work. I have to want to quit smoking on my own and do it myself. It wouldn't take me long to cancel the deal. I think putting the responsibility back on him would be the best idea. I don't think he will do it himself until it is the only option left open. Sometimes there's just not an easy way out.
I think you are doing the right thing.
Hugs,
MG
I don't think that's unfair. I think he needs to learn to do this on his own. I know if I asked someone to hold my cigarette money for me it just wouldn't work. I have to want to quit smoking on my own and do it myself. It wouldn't take me long to cancel the deal. I think putting the responsibility back on him would be the best idea. I don't think he will do it himself until it is the only option left open. Sometimes there's just not an easy way out.
I think you are doing the right thing.
Hugs,
MG
Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: That's what I'd like to know.
Posts: 2,416
Hi Ann!
I was trying to put myself in your shoes. If Dino asked me to do this, would I? I don't know! It sounds like kind of a silly game. I'm hoping some of the former substance abusers will chime in on this. Would this have been a real help, or just a bandaid on a broken arm?
I don't blame you for asking him to take some further recovery steps than just having you monitor him... otherwise you could be monitoring forever. I also wouldn't blame you if you just said no. Icky decision... don't envy you! But love you!
Hugs,
Smoke
I was trying to put myself in your shoes. If Dino asked me to do this, would I? I don't know! It sounds like kind of a silly game. I'm hoping some of the former substance abusers will chime in on this. Would this have been a real help, or just a bandaid on a broken arm?
I don't blame you for asking him to take some further recovery steps than just having you monitor him... otherwise you could be monitoring forever. I also wouldn't blame you if you just said no. Icky decision... don't envy you! But love you!
Hugs,
Smoke
Nature Girl
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
Thanks MG and Smoke
I wonder what others would say too, that have been in this situation.
He has never ever been able to hang on to his money...when he had 3 years clean his girlfriend handled all the money.
And I have offered to help him plan a budget, suggested opening a bank account with no bank card so that he can't withdraw at 11 pm, and offered to hold the "rent" portion to ensure his rent gets paid and no option to argue with me about it.
It seems strange to me that after finally letting go, that I don't want it handed back to me.
I'll talk to him again tomorrow and see if we can work something out where I am not his banker. I will take him to the bank to deposit it, but I don't want to hold the money.
I wonder what others would say too, that have been in this situation.
He has never ever been able to hang on to his money...when he had 3 years clean his girlfriend handled all the money.
And I have offered to help him plan a budget, suggested opening a bank account with no bank card so that he can't withdraw at 11 pm, and offered to hold the "rent" portion to ensure his rent gets paid and no option to argue with me about it.
It seems strange to me that after finally letting go, that I don't want it handed back to me.
I'll talk to him again tomorrow and see if we can work something out where I am not his banker. I will take him to the bank to deposit it, but I don't want to hold the money.
Supply Manager
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleaverville
Posts: 2,898
Ann,
My chin dropped when I read your post! My eyes bugged out and my neck shot forward! Not pretty!
I think you can see this to the end, can't you? I know you can. He will lie!
He knows where you stand and he is asking you to choose. It sucks! I would be angry...really really, door slamming, tire squealing angry!
That being said...I am not 100% sure I wouldn't do it...even tho I have more than once and I KNOW it would end in disaster. I would probably not do it the same as in the past. I may take the money...but if he asked I would hand it over. His choice. I would not get involved in some sick guessing game trying to decide if he is telling the truth. You ask it is yours. You use and all bets are off! Who the heck made us hall monitors anyway? And why do you have to go get his check? If he wants you to have it so bad he should be able to get it from point A to point B.
Can you tell that my feathers are ruffled? I can only imagine how you feel!
Hugs!!!!
JT
My chin dropped when I read your post! My eyes bugged out and my neck shot forward! Not pretty!
I think you can see this to the end, can't you? I know you can. He will lie!
He knows where you stand and he is asking you to choose. It sucks! I would be angry...really really, door slamming, tire squealing angry!
That being said...I am not 100% sure I wouldn't do it...even tho I have more than once and I KNOW it would end in disaster. I would probably not do it the same as in the past. I may take the money...but if he asked I would hand it over. His choice. I would not get involved in some sick guessing game trying to decide if he is telling the truth. You ask it is yours. You use and all bets are off! Who the heck made us hall monitors anyway? And why do you have to go get his check? If he wants you to have it so bad he should be able to get it from point A to point B.
Can you tell that my feathers are ruffled? I can only imagine how you feel!
Hugs!!!!
JT
Nature Girl
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
BINGO JT!!!
You just gave me an idea.
He gets paid cash every day. Not good.
So he could ask the boss to pay him by cheque every Friday, I'll pick him and the cheque up, and he can cash it, pay his rent weekly, buy a few groceries, carton of cigarettes, toiletries, and the amount that is left over should just barely cover his lunches and coffees. If he blows that part...well too bad.
He usually goes with me to get my groceries, so this isn't out of my way to do this.
And if he manages to escape with the cheque and cash it...well too bad. I won't be there the next Friday.
I know there is still room in here for him to leave early and cash his cheque and use...but that is his problem and does not put me in a bad position.
This leaves me as his chauffeur and not his banker, but as I said he goes with me anyway for groceries. And he will be the one to pay his obligations and take care of his own needs.
This may not be a perfect plan...and if anyone sees holes please tell me...but it seems like a much better solution and a fair compromise to me.
As someone very wise here told me lately..."Never do for the addict what they can do for themselves". This will help him get into a routine of doing for himself, and hopefully I won't even have to be part of it after a while.
Thank you!!!!!
You just gave me an idea.
He gets paid cash every day. Not good.
So he could ask the boss to pay him by cheque every Friday, I'll pick him and the cheque up, and he can cash it, pay his rent weekly, buy a few groceries, carton of cigarettes, toiletries, and the amount that is left over should just barely cover his lunches and coffees. If he blows that part...well too bad.
He usually goes with me to get my groceries, so this isn't out of my way to do this.
And if he manages to escape with the cheque and cash it...well too bad. I won't be there the next Friday.
I know there is still room in here for him to leave early and cash his cheque and use...but that is his problem and does not put me in a bad position.
This leaves me as his chauffeur and not his banker, but as I said he goes with me anyway for groceries. And he will be the one to pay his obligations and take care of his own needs.
This may not be a perfect plan...and if anyone sees holes please tell me...but it seems like a much better solution and a fair compromise to me.
As someone very wise here told me lately..."Never do for the addict what they can do for themselves". This will help him get into a routine of doing for himself, and hopefully I won't even have to be part of it after a while.
Thank you!!!!!
Supply Manager
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleaverville
Posts: 2,898
Ann,
Whew! I thought we were going to lose you there for a minute! Ann the Banker doesn't suit you!
And aw shucks Mam...you would have thought of all that on your own...I have faith in you!
But I do still have smoke (uhhhh...sparks?) coming out of my ears! Do they think we were born yesterday??? (I don't THINK so!)
Hugs!
JT
Whew! I thought we were going to lose you there for a minute! Ann the Banker doesn't suit you!
And aw shucks Mam...you would have thought of all that on your own...I have faith in you!
But I do still have smoke (uhhhh...sparks?) coming out of my ears! Do they think we were born yesterday??? (I don't THINK so!)
Hugs!
JT
Supply Manager
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleaverville
Posts: 2,898
Hi again!
You asked about holes? Even if he gets paid cash weekly and not a check I don't see any holes. HE can talk to his boss, HE can wait for you to pick him up and HE can take care of his needs with minimal supervision. Now lets see if HE buys it!
Hugs again!
JT
You asked about holes? Even if he gets paid cash weekly and not a check I don't see any holes. HE can talk to his boss, HE can wait for you to pick him up and HE can take care of his needs with minimal supervision. Now lets see if HE buys it!
Hugs again!
JT
Supply Manager
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleaverville
Posts: 2,898
MG,
It's like ENOUGH ALREADY! Here is this wonderfully evolved, superrecovered woman and he does THAT? Auntie JT is ashamed of him!
And I want to know when it ends...and yes I DO want a date!!
(And no nothing happened to me today...I am fine...I DID take my hormones...)
LOL
JT
It's like ENOUGH ALREADY! Here is this wonderfully evolved, superrecovered woman and he does THAT? Auntie JT is ashamed of him!
And I want to know when it ends...and yes I DO want a date!!
(And no nothing happened to me today...I am fine...I DID take my hormones...)
LOL
JT
Grace Under Fire
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Another world
Posts: 536
Here I am late night lurking-very, very
quiet, and then THIS music comes on!
Scared the $$%% out of me!
Ann, all I know is whatever you decide
to do, whether it's a win or a lose-you
will be just fine.
Hugs,
quiet, and then THIS music comes on!
Scared the $$%% out of me!
Ann, all I know is whatever you decide
to do, whether it's a win or a lose-you
will be just fine.
Hugs,
Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 122
Hi Anns,
I think your first insticts are right. He needs to learn to take care of himself. Addicts can be very manipulative. When he really wants to be sober he will really work at it and go to any lengths to achieve that. You've taken the steps you need to for yourself and he needs to do the same. Not going to meetings and doing what he needs to do is no good. He's an addict, he has an allergy to drugs/alcohol and can never use like a normal person again. It's an incurable disease but through abstinence the disease can be arrested.
I know how hard it is to have cash in early sobriety, ( I keep very small amounts on me now, just as much as I need for meetings, food, and cigarettes) and use a checking account to pay bills. I don't take any chances and have learned not to put myself at any unnessary risk. If I did have a job that only paid cash I would make sure it was deposited in the bank the next business day. If I wanted to use now all I would need is 3 dollars to get some. I don't want to use anymore. A person has to really want it and I really want it this time and am cautious cause I know when I am not feeling too good and craving I am in a dangerous place. It all comes down to whether he wants to recover or keep living the way he has. It took years of messing up for me to finally see the light and I hope your son can avoid going through what I did in order to learn it is up to him. You can't be there for him forever. I'll pray that he will make it back to the meetings. Meeting makers make it.
I think whatever you decide it will be what's best for him. Sounds like your taking care of yourself and no longer a doormat.
H
I think your first insticts are right. He needs to learn to take care of himself. Addicts can be very manipulative. When he really wants to be sober he will really work at it and go to any lengths to achieve that. You've taken the steps you need to for yourself and he needs to do the same. Not going to meetings and doing what he needs to do is no good. He's an addict, he has an allergy to drugs/alcohol and can never use like a normal person again. It's an incurable disease but through abstinence the disease can be arrested.
I know how hard it is to have cash in early sobriety, ( I keep very small amounts on me now, just as much as I need for meetings, food, and cigarettes) and use a checking account to pay bills. I don't take any chances and have learned not to put myself at any unnessary risk. If I did have a job that only paid cash I would make sure it was deposited in the bank the next business day. If I wanted to use now all I would need is 3 dollars to get some. I don't want to use anymore. A person has to really want it and I really want it this time and am cautious cause I know when I am not feeling too good and craving I am in a dangerous place. It all comes down to whether he wants to recover or keep living the way he has. It took years of messing up for me to finally see the light and I hope your son can avoid going through what I did in order to learn it is up to him. You can't be there for him forever. I'll pray that he will make it back to the meetings. Meeting makers make it.
I think whatever you decide it will be what's best for him. Sounds like your taking care of yourself and no longer a doormat.
H
Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: North America
Posts: 362
Anns, isn't it a good feeling to actaully not want control over something? When you mentioned that I could relate to that, that move of just letting it go comes into play..but it feels so good. Your not being unfair~your being strong.
Hugs!
Hugs!
It is what it is!!!
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sobriety
Posts: 5,767
Ann -
Sorry for not tossing my 2 cents in here yesterday (spent the day in SF with the girls, went to see The Full Monty on stage - what a hysterical show, see it if it comes near your town). Yesterday was a Pauline day - yeah!!!
Okay - First let me say I am proud of you for realizing that you don't want to control this situation. You cannot monitor his recovery you can only help him if he is first helping himself. I know you have already made your decision, I just want to tell you I think that you have made the right one. Holding his money for him will only cause problems between the two of you. Take him to p/u his check and to get his groceries. And like you said the first Friday that he has already taken the money, well that is the last Friday you show up.
And you know what, he is right, your recovery has to come first, just like his does. And I pray that he understands that one day.
You Go Girl!!!
Sorry for not tossing my 2 cents in here yesterday (spent the day in SF with the girls, went to see The Full Monty on stage - what a hysterical show, see it if it comes near your town). Yesterday was a Pauline day - yeah!!!
Okay - First let me say I am proud of you for realizing that you don't want to control this situation. You cannot monitor his recovery you can only help him if he is first helping himself. I know you have already made your decision, I just want to tell you I think that you have made the right one. Holding his money for him will only cause problems between the two of you. Take him to p/u his check and to get his groceries. And like you said the first Friday that he has already taken the money, well that is the last Friday you show up.
And you know what, he is right, your recovery has to come first, just like his does. And I pray that he understands that one day.
You Go Girl!!!
Nature Girl
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
Wow - thanks for all the input and support.
I slept on it and have decided that the Friday thing is my only option I will offer. And only if it works out okay with no hassels.
I really appreciate the input from Pauline and Hedenuff, it gives me a view from the other side and you know better than me what would have been okay for you and what wouldn't.
He went to church with me this morning. It couldn't have been a better service and message. The message was about returning to God and God's welcome and love for those who have come back, regardless of where they have been or what they have done. It almost brought a tear to my eye. And the opening hymn was "Amazing Grace", my son's favourite.
I go to a few different churches, and this one was a catholic church downtown, old and beautiful, and as I sat there I thought of all the times I had gone there alone to pray and how I had always felt the presence of God there. There is a stained glass window with a picture of Jesus and a big angel behind him. I used to pray for an angel for my son too. And today I felt that there is one.
I feel better today. I don't feel that I have to do anything that I am not comfortable with, and that we are both being protected.
I love you all and love that you are here to talk to when my head gets fuzzy.
**********{GROUP}}}}}
I slept on it and have decided that the Friday thing is my only option I will offer. And only if it works out okay with no hassels.
I really appreciate the input from Pauline and Hedenuff, it gives me a view from the other side and you know better than me what would have been okay for you and what wouldn't.
He went to church with me this morning. It couldn't have been a better service and message. The message was about returning to God and God's welcome and love for those who have come back, regardless of where they have been or what they have done. It almost brought a tear to my eye. And the opening hymn was "Amazing Grace", my son's favourite.
I go to a few different churches, and this one was a catholic church downtown, old and beautiful, and as I sat there I thought of all the times I had gone there alone to pray and how I had always felt the presence of God there. There is a stained glass window with a picture of Jesus and a big angel behind him. I used to pray for an angel for my son too. And today I felt that there is one.
I feel better today. I don't feel that I have to do anything that I am not comfortable with, and that we are both being protected.
I love you all and love that you are here to talk to when my head gets fuzzy.
**********{GROUP}}}}}
Paused
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 18
anns, I don't think you are being unfair at all. I think it is unfair for him to put the pressure on YOU to make sure he stays out of trouble, isn't that the whole point of the "consequence" issue, to let them take charge of their addiction and deal with it THEIR way??Don't feel bad, you are right, YOUR recovery is number one for you, he has to do the same. And I know you have the support you need right here...Also, even if you manage his money , if an addict wants to use,don't they always find a way??? That would make you crazy, to do all that and still wonder, wouldn't it? I know that is how I would feel.
Hang in there, and keep us posted!
((((((((((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))), Jamy
Hang in there, and keep us posted!
((((((((((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))), Jamy
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