rara

I know, what a title. I haven't bene around the boards for a while. I had a lovely break recently when he stopped drinking for a diet, but that is over. It's awful to go back to the drinking even though I knew it would happen. I just read some of the recent posts on detaching. I have to say that I thought I was doing pretty darn good with my detachment, yet I find I am now punishing my AH for my anger and disappointment that the detachment is WORKING for me in many ways, but not really for us. So, lately, I am not really detaching except that I spend more time alone than wih him!

I am living my own life in ways I never did before. As a matter of fact, I've gotten so good at it that I prefer to spend most of my time without him (in the house or going out), even when he is sober. I've gotten used to it. I find that I look forward to being by myself. But lately, I find that I am sarcastic and contemptuous at times because I feel so lonely and sad about it all, even though I prefer not to spend too much time with him. But I feel I punish him and this is not detaching.

AH has been trying to be especially kind and thoughtful since my detachment has increased and I sort of appreciate it, but I want to scream, "Who cares????? You're still an A!!!" Clearly there are problems in my marriage, and I have a lot of resentment , but that is not why I'm posting. It's the punishing...I sometimes feel that I want to be so MEAN to him. This is not helpful!!! I feel like I want to try to connect somehow but don't know if I can.

I don't respond enthusiastically enough when he buys me flowers, takes me out, agrees to deal with (OTHER) important issues he knows have bothered me for a while, does lots of little things, enjoys having my little nephew stay over, who adores him...he is trying in his own way. Then I feel that since I don't respond too well, the detachment is just going to backfire. It gets confusing, this detachment! Punishing or ignoring makes me feel like a terrible person. I find I am even doing it in front of others and I can't seem to stop--this makes me feel awful.

One of the many indignities of dealing with my AH that I have a hard time with is the lack of physical relationship--along with the (physical) problems that go along with drinking, his attention to his appearance has gotten worse. Because he is being more attentive to me in other ways and I am not too responsive after the fact, I feel like I'd like to try to spark something since we are so far apart emotionally and physically. But I am turned off by him not taking care of himself (this is part of my resentment). I wonder how to address this without being mean? Maybe it can't be done. I don't know, I'm just looking for a way to connect. I'd appreciate any thoughts. Thanks!

JT

Rara,

First I wish you would hang around when things are going well as much as when they are going badly. You would have so much positive to share.

I am not going to address the intimacy...but in a a way I am.

The thing I find in my relationship with Ward is that when I am not seeing the positive all I am seeing is the negative.

I too have gotten very very good at detaching...to the point where I often feel alone. But that is not his burden. It is not his job to keep me entertained and just because he is not available doesn't make him automatically the bad guy. As you pointed out your husband has been especially kind and thoughtful. That is often the result you get when you back off or "detach". Nothing changes if nothing changes and that is the change you were probably looking for.

Personally I would say you are making incredible progess. Detachment (or being self contained) will never backfire. All that means is that you are not dependent...it doesn't mean that you don't love him. You can let down your guard and show him...you won't forget what you have learned.

((Hugs))
JT

splendra

I agree with JT that you seem to be making progress. I wonder if you are numbing out and distancing yourself instead of just detaching?

I think it is very difficult to separate the person from the disease. I know that it is best for me if I am present when my H is making efforts to change his way of relating to me and keeping to myself if he is using, Sometimes I do just the opposite.

I understand the feeling of wanting to punish. Perhaps you could try to discuss that with your partner. Maybe you could also acknowledge that you think he is trying to change cause maybe it would give an opening for some good diaolog between the two of you.

It does seem like we could just wave a magic wand and everything bad would just go away and we could just go on to lead some kind of perfect life. I can't seem to find one that works though. But it is a process working stuff out and it is not easy.

At least you are aware of this punishing thing you have going on and you know when you are doing it too. Acknowledging it is at least half the battle.

FaithChaser

ra ra, good to see you again! Speaking for myself, I know I am so bitter and so angry but in the past I have done everything for him, been the cheerleader in the relationship. Always sparked the emotions etc. Anyway this "detachment" thingy is so opposite from what I am used to that it feels mean. I do harbor some very mean feelings for my ah, but I try very hard not to lash out at him. I am taking care of myself and for me too this means a lot of alone time. I find that now I am more comfortable alone than with him. His presense makes me angry. I actually like him more when he is not around. I guess this is sad and to me where I am, it seems like it is a relationship nearing the end. Someone said to me yesterday that God can change him but he has to want to change for that to happen. I know he doesn't want that and it hurts, which leads to more anger on my part. I suppose my point was that when we are normally the cheerleaders, the one's who do it all, detachment feels extremely mean. How can we not be angry? That's one I need to work on too, thanks for pointing it out!

Big hugs to you!
~FaithChaser

rara

Thanks JT, Splendra, FaithChaser. As usual, you all make great points and have such insight! I think I've been detaching from the boards as well! JT, I think when AH is not drinking it is so scary to feel good knowing it won't last. I'd almost rather all the bad than that big tease and the crash. He is back full tilt now and the difference in him is so profound that I couldn't bear to enjoy his good days. ( that is a good phrase, huh? Can't bear to enjoy!) You are so right that he is not responsible to keep me entertained and that he is not the bad guy (feels that way). I become the bad guy to protect myself.

I know I am making progress. Yet I also feel so stuck because I can't communicate with him--he doesn't acknowledge the drinking as a problem once he is in it. So I shut down, feel like what's the use. I did get the results I wanted when he was trying, but I knew it wouldn't last so I am afraid to give. I agree with Splendra that I do the opposite when he is trying. I would like to discuss all this with him, but when the chaos returns so does the belligerence and forgetting and defensiveness. I try to wait for a nearly sober day but that can drive you nuts. I thought if I tried to connect during the good period he may forget some of it once the alcohol took over! I have learned that the alcohol clouds up his brain and emotions and I feel like I am talking to a disabled person (mentally). It is SO exhausting. I am not saying I won't ever try the dialogue--I guess I should have tried anyway when he was sober!

FaithChaser, I also feel that I like him more when he is not around. I almost feel like maybe if I spend enough time away that poof! he will change when I do see him. He said to me yesterday that I seem so unhappy. This was at the start of a long day of drinking (family came over) so I brushed it off. It will explode at some point, but as you say I am so tired of my former cheerleader role that I can't seem to cheerlead now. Yes, I do feel the marriage is disintegrating and it is so unlike me to not step in and try to stop it. Six months ago I would have been in a complete panic, desperate to fix it. I don't feel we are partners, but being mean doesn't work either. Maybe I need to let down my guard again. But since he won't change...I have to. I like my independence and newfound strength, but I don't like who I've become otherwise.

BTW, I do love that banana dance guy. I sometimes gauge how I feel here by whether I smile at him or not! Thanks to all! It does really help!!!!!!!!!!

cwohio

rara - i feel EXACTLY as you do. i am working on myself (counseling, al-anon, CoDe workshop) but mine hasn't stopped drinking for any length of time. i had a bad "resentment" day yesterday and quickly tried to shake myself out of it. i don't really want to be around my ah much either and he just doesn't see that life is going on without him. i completely understand where you are at as i am there too!

hugs - chris

rara

CW,

When I wrote this post I had a feeling people would relate to it--how long can you detach without some negative effects too, like punishing and feeling alone? Detchment does not go along with a healthy marriage. I think underneath it there has to be some anger and hurt because you are not real partners, and it is so draining to live your life as a "successful detacher". A lot is gained but I think more is lost. I haven't been to AlAnon for a while because I don't want to talk about "detachment with love" as that is not what I able to do much of at the moment.

MY AH has never been truly sober either, just for short periods. This last one was about three weeks, and boy, he was like a different person--and he knows it. He likes it! He says he's happier. So when he goes back I feel almost worse for him than for me. After he sinks back in within a few days, I just feel so, so crushed, like being hit with a truck, because I have lost the person he can be and I love that person. As Splendra said, I guess I am numbing more than detaching.

Well, sad as I am I'll give banana guy a try!

cwohio

rara - i see that "other" person less & less each day so i hear what you are saying. i DO feel numb instead of detached and i guess that's as bad as the A numbing themselves with alcohol. i guess i haven't got the hang of truly detaching - i have heard from many that it is a hard concept to grasp.

thanks for the banana guy dance!

ggnewme

Hi all - as usual, thank you for your insight and willingness to share.

I was not very successful at detaching with love either - I tried, when he started trying to quit, but then two kind of bad elements were thrown in 1) he wasn't into any kind of recovery, or even introspection, so that made me dubious as to his success. 2) He kept assuring me that nothing would change even though he was sober. It was that insistance that threw me over the edge, because certainly I wasn't happy all along with his joblessness, his lack of interest in his own growth and care.

I am still hoping he is wrong- this is an email I sent to him today, after not talking to him since 4/1. I felt compelled, because I'm still very sad and confused about my decision to walk away. Hope it helps someone:

" Doug, I hope you understand that I'm really only trying to give you the space you need to make your own decisions about what you want out of life, for yourself. One conclusion I've come to so far is that I was ALWAYS trying to "help" you, or make suggestions about how I thought you should handle your future, or at least prepare for it, and if you weren't moving fast enough (in my opinion), I tried to do it for you.

Of course, now I know that your lack of interest in your own development and care is (please, god,) due to alcoholism, quitting drinking had to be step one for you. Despite your insistence to the contrary, I firmly believe and infact am clinging to the HOPE that sobriety will give you the clarity you need to pull your life together; and I also sincerely hope that you are staying sober, with or without support and/or introspection.
I will always love you and want to support you, and want you in my life. I have fantasies of starting over, at some point, with Sober Doug and Sober Me, and seeing if those people can get along as friends, or if they will even have anything in common.

Still, for now though, I need to see what kind of decisions you make on your own, if any, regarding your health, your work, your living situation, your spirituality, your education, your friendships... and I can't figure out how to be in your life on a day to day basis and not try to be influential or controlling. I want to see that you want great things, or at least stability and self reliance for yourself and are willing to put in the work required to get them, just like everyone else.

I'll be able to call you soon. I'm sorry I can't be there for you right now. I'm sorry I'm not strong enough to talk to you yet. This was not an easy decision for me - I second guess myself every other minute, and am in a great deal of emotional pain. But it is necessary if either of us wants a better relationship with the other, in any capacity. "

cwohio

thanks for sharing ggnewme! very well written!

Beautiful

I went through the numbing period because I couldn't figure out any other way to be away from him and still live with him. In the end, I figured that it's his problem and he would either address it or I would divorce him. I think for each person it is a personal decision -- mine took a long time to really be able to look at it objectively.

You're making progress if you recognize your punishing as you detach. I did it-- and he DESERVED IT! Should've happened long ago. Now the anger is gone but it needed to come out. Any expert will tell you that it wasn't the greatest way to emerge but I emerged -- and he could've said "I'm sorry for being a schmuck" and saved himself all that aggravation! Wahoo!

rara

gg--thanks for sharing your letter. I agree with your thoughts and I think you did a great job of letting him know how you feel in a caring and thoughtful manner.

Good luck with it, please let is know what goes on!

rara

Beautiful- thanks so much-----it was really helpful for me to read the word DESERVED. It makes me feel better because I don't think we want to punish but we are trying to SURVIVE. I'm glad your anger is gone. That alone is great!!!!! I wish I could hear that he was sorry for being a schmuck (super schmuck), but he doesn't SEE it. He knows it somewhere, somehow, but the alcohol does a great job of covering it up for him. Almost seems like an excuse, a way to avoid responsibility. You know, that makes sense. He is avoiding responsibility!

Thanks!

JT

rara,

I think detachment is the defintion of a healthy marriage! Ward and I have been married now for 24 years and before I got the concept of detachment (meaning we are separate people) we were both miserable. It may have been me trying to control him or at other times it was him trying to control me. Where is the love in that? Wanting another person to be something or someone they are not is a recipe for misery.

Now as a detached person I am able to allow Ward to be who he is...warts and all. And I insist on the same from him....and he allows me to be me warts and all.

That is called acceptance....
Hugs,
JT

rara

JT,

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I am happy for you that you are in a good place as far as detaching. Unfortunately, I am not where you are. And I think detachment is a very complex and difficult concept. I agree completely about being two separate people who don't try to control each other. I do think we have come a long way in that area. Both of us tried to control each other and that is a miserable existence. That has been brought out into the open and we are doing much better at that. But now, with him drinking again, there is little true communication and I am just trying to survive the emotional roller coaster of living with an A.

There are a lot of bad feelings, hurt, anger, resentment that really can't be addressed when he is drinking, and even when he is sober (mostly during the day), it is still difficult because of what the alcohol does to him generally. I have to say again here that when we got married, I had no idea of what I was marrying into, including his drinking and how very, very difficult it would be dealing with a stepfamily. There was no preparation and I was blindsided. (we got married quickly)

I have been SO overwhelmed by the chaos of the drinking and the stepfamily combined, and everything was out of my control. His (adult) children and his siblings all grew up with alcoholism. AH can't deal with a lot of this stuff, including his very unhappy, emotionally damaged daughter who has caused SO many problems between us. I was the outsider in the family, and I became lost in the chaos. So I tried to control, and of course that didn't work. I could write books, movies about stepfamilies. I no longer try to control, (usually) but we are now so far apart emotionally that detachment is all I can manage--it is survival. I don't see how we can move on from all the bad stuff without real communication and a partnership.

JT, it is helpful for me to see that by not trying to control, we are at least in a better place than in the past. Maybe there is some hope that detachment won't be a way of life forever.