Savana 54

Please forgive my ignorance on this subject, but I don't understand why some of us continue to live with their AH or Abf, if you know they are a burden to you and your progress in healing and taking care of yourself.

Wouldn't eventually the ultimate goal be to someday be away from them forever in order to move on with your life and take care of yourself?

I do realize that sometimes children and finances are involved, but how healthy is this for a child to see Dad or Mom constantly drinking? I realize being Co-Dependent is part of the whole problem, but as you grow through Al-Anon doesn't it give you the courage to move on past the A, and find a new life for yourself?

I'm sorry, I just don't understand how being "married" is any different then dating someone in the sense of being able to leave them and the drama and sickness that they bring to everyone's life. Everyone has options, no matter if your married or not.

It just baffles me some of the women on here that are so smart and wise, give others and myself excellent advice, but yet as I read their stories I realize they still are living actively with their A.

Help me to understand...

equus

He isn't my A, he isn't a disease, he's my husband and best friend. If he had cancer I would never call him 'my cancer' - it wouldn't make sense.

Alcoholism is a disease, I hate the disease.

Also he adds to rather than destructs my life.

splendra

Alanon does not try to break up families. They teach us how to look at our own behaviors that could be making our situation worse. If what you want is to leave I am sure they would support you in your dicission and if you want to stay they would support that too unless you are living with violence....

quietsins

i would love to be with my A. he is a charming, wonderful man of intense inner beauty. he just doesnt see it and what his disease projects on me and my daughter is sheer misery.

do i feel healthier away from him? yes and no. i feel healthier for myself, and yet the vows i made in my heart to him are as strong as ever.

i think for some of us, we dont have a past strong enough to resist this disease. he had been an A for 30 years before i met him. i didnt get to know him, struggle to build a life with him, all the things that make a relationship stronger.

i pray for him and hope for him to find serenity, peace and hope whether it is with me or without me. i just cannot be with him as long as he chooses not to have a recovery program.

this is my own personal motto. believe in beautiful dreams, live in truth. that is what i choose to do in my own situation. i believe in a beautiful dream but my truth is that i cannot be with him without recovery. there are as many different situations in these people as there are people in the world.

what i find intolerable, perhaps someone else finds acceptable, or a step in the right direction. for myself this journey pointed out that i was too weak in my own personal belief system to withstand the constant barrage of hurtful hateful words towards my self esteem.

so what bounces off me may sink in to another, and visa versa. the one thing i realized was true was told to me by my sponsor. we each of us are doing the very best job we can every day.

my A is doing the best he can with the skills he has. i am doing the best i can with the skills i have. and they just are not compatable. in other cases, that may be untrue. and there in lies the mystery and the hope of this disease.

only God knows how this will all come out. and we just have to believe and do what we think is the "next right thing"

minnie

Savana

I sometimes find it difficult to understand too. However, I have to realise that, like alcoholics, those of us who are partners of As have different kinds of rock bottom too.

I found it very difficult to convince myself that if my ex had a different disease that I would stay. To me, that was guilt-inducing. If my ex had an other disease and was unwilling to admit it and got no treatment for it whatsoever, and as a result was emotionally abusive and unavailable, I would still have left. If he had chosen to acknowledge his disease, sought help, and was making an honest effort, then that may have been a different story. I wasn't going to waste two lives instead of one.

equus

I think I should have added that I see my husband fight this and this distance he's come is huge.

It's not that disease or lack of it can justify behaviour it's that the disease and the person will never be one in the same.

wraybear

My AH has tried to stay sober, unsuccessfully for more than 8 years. We love each other always. When he is sober, we are IN LOVE. Fortunately, mine has been sober more than drunk over the past 8 years until recently. He became a binge drinker and would be sober for 4-8 months and then have a one to two week binger. When he is drinking, I am the one that becomes verbally abusive and full of rage, not him. His disease has progressed so badly that he has been non stop drinking for 5 months, morning, noon and night. Because of his drinking and careless behavior, he hasn't been living with me for these 5 months. But, I have lived with the drinking for more than 16 years. I guess, in my case, I know he is capable of not drinking because he will do it for months at a time, so there is always this hope that we can be "in love" again. He is the father of my children, and they love their daddy. He is a good daddy when not using. My kids have some GREAT qualities because of their father.
Some of us can "take care of ourselves" while our A's are active, some can't. There is no right or wrong. I have gotten to a point where I am in the "I can't" group now. That's my own personal choice.

Loopylou

I am very unhappy with the idea that alcoholism if jsut like any other disease and comparing with diseases and illnesses such as cancer. I had a very very serious illness for which I was on very high doses of steroids and chemo and was hospitalised for a fortnight (no visits whatsoever from my AH while I was there as he couldn't get a babysitter!!). My sons were a year old and 18mths when I was first ill and nearly two and nearly three when I was in hospital and on treatment. My AH treated me like I didn't exist during that time. I begged and pleaded, screamed, shouted, threatened to leave - and most of all I crawled from one end of the day to the next virtually on my hands and knees trying to look after our kids - I was absolutely terrified that I was going to die and in a lot of pain - guess what his drinking buddies and the pub still came first!

Loopylou

oh and BTW after three months on the treatment regime I lost my fertility - the day I got my blood test result I rang him in tears - believe me I was just a little upset at the age of 31 to be told I was infertile - he went out drinking with his mate at work whose wife had just found out she was pregnant - he didn't want ot make his friend feel bad because I was ill. I was on chemo & steroids for 2 1/2 years - fine for a year or so - then another flare up - more chemo, more steroids. I did anything and everything I could to get better - I get really pissed when people compare life threatening illnesses with alcoholism - especially when people are trying to bring up babies when ill with AH who don't give a dime for anything other than what their drinking buddies are up to.

drgnfly30

Sometimes I have a hard time with this as well. However, recently I was diagnosed with Diabetes.. it's become a bit clearer...the Dr. told me:

Diabetes is progressive; so is Alcoholism.
Even if I get my #'s under control, I will ALWAYS be diabetic; even if the alcoholic quits, they will always be an alcoholic.
I make the choice whether I follow the Drs orders & cut back on my sweets & carbs - I cheated today; AH makes the choice whether to help his health & not drink - he chose to drink today

wraybear

I struggle with this too. My mother-in-law was a severe diabetic. She did take care of herself but still occassionaly had an episode. It never crossed my mind for her to not drive because she might have a seizure. But it crosses my mind almost every day that my AH shouldn't drive.

I am a cancer survivor. I was young, a teenager when I had chemo. It made me very very sick for days afterwards, as that was 30 years ago. It is hard for me to think an A doesn't have a choice, just like I didn't have a choice to get cancer and go through a horrible 1 1/2 years of chemo.

I know it HAS to be a disease. Even though I am still denying that at times. But, it HAS TO BE, he doesn't want to be like this. He HATES this probably more than I do.

Loopy, can't even begin to imagine what this had to be like for you, going through something like this alone. I know the alone feeling as I have felt alone, without any emotional support for a very long time, but not something like you have been through. Hope things are better for you.

JennyK

I have not left because I am not ready for a life without my husband, who I have loved my entire adult life.

My world would change entirely and I am just not ready for that to happen.


Jenny

StandingStrong

My A and I are not together right now, however, we were together for 15 1/2 years before I hit my bottom.
Why did I stay? There are many reasons - and sometimes those reasons changed throughout the years. BUT....I think that a few of those reasons remained there no matter what. The fact that I loved him. And I had hope. Hope that it would get better.
Even now, Ah and I have lived apart for a little over a year and I've pretty much went on with my life. However, I've not filed for divorce nor have I completely let go of him. I know in my heart that the damage has been done and that our life together is never going to be like I hoped it would. And yet I still find myself stalling. Divorce is so permanent. I also didn't want to make any rash decisions with my emotions so chaotic and charged and so I chose to spend the time getting myself well.
I think that for everyone, the reason to stay is different. But I think that the two I mentioned that remained with me throughout those years are probably two that stay with everyone - love and hope.
Just my thoughts on the subject.

WishItWouldSnow

i believe it's a disease...someone with a healthy mind would not act like my AH. and the abuse is taking a toll on him so i'm also detaching from him because i don't believe you can abuse your body the way he does and live for long.
i'm also a hopeful person and i'm learning to trust faith.
i'm not sure what is going to happen next week, next year, or 5 years from now. but, i know that i'll percevere. i always do. and my AH has taught me a lot about myself.
still, there are times when i can't help wishing he would wake up, look in the mirror, say "wow, i've been such a poopstain!", and then work on healing himself. but, if that happened, life would be perfect and what would i learn then?

California Wife

I can relate to that Minnie! I am at that point with my husband.Not sure if I want to hang out in this sinking ship anymore. I accept that my husband has a disease. I do not accept that he uses it as an excuse to not participate in life and be a responsible adult. I've been waiting for him to try and get better, and waiting, and waiting, and I imagine I could be waiting forever, if he let me.

mushroom

Well actually there's a HUGE difference between being married and just dating. That's why spouses get privileges that daters dont'. Like inheritance and insurance and visitation and community property. When we married, we made vows that we took seriously. We were not dating anymore, we were committed to spending the rest of our lives with this person, for better or worse, in sickness or health, with no idea what the future would bring us. And alcoholism is a sickness. That's a lot of what took me so long to leave, that bit about better or worse and sickness or health. It wasn't until I realized that he was incapable of keeping his vows, and his disease had destroyed our relationship, that I was able to leave. I tried my darndest to be a good wife but I couldn't be a sacrificial victim. His counselors kept telling me it was best to separate but I didn't want to believe them. For my sake or his? I dunno. But it was best, in the end.

I really don't know how others stay for years and years with an alcoholic. Are they too weak to leave, or strong enough that they can stay? I don't know. I sometimes think it was weaker to leave, the easy way out, but I won't dwell on it. No one knows what goes on in other people's lives so I try not to judge other's decisions and won't let them judge mine.

equus

I think the confusion is over blame. A disease doesn't remove all blame from a person, saying it's a disease doesn't make behaviour like drink driving okay.

I probably have one of the least confusing situations in the first place. Yes D became physically addicted to alcohol but because he knew that like Wraybear's MIL he didn't drive at all for 5 years, he's never driven after a drink. However there will be diabetics that do drive when they know they shouldn't. Having a disease doesn't remove all responsibility or blame from anyone, regardless of that disease.

Other things that made it easier for me to see the 'disease' side of it are that there are alcoholics in his extended family, the genetic link has been clearly shown in twin studies (seperated at birth) and children put up for adoption. Some research suggest that intolerances to alcohol/brewers yeast/hops may be involved - my D has a history of food intolerances. I suppose last of all something one of my friends said sums it up most clearly, she said 'He isn't even the party hard sort of person' - he isn't. We all drank at uni but I honestly believe where we dealt with something quite mildly addictive, to D alcohol was always as addictive as heroin. He was hooked before he realised it was a problem, he hadn't learned or understood it was a disease then - he still struggles to not JUST blame himself. None of that means he's perfect, just an individual with a disease.

Saying it's a disease doesn't mean the sufferer is let off the hook for everything, people deal with this disease differently. I think what will always matter most to me is to know D fights it, he might not always go about that in the right way (like someone with cancer trying a quacks cure) but it's evident that he fights it.

My mother has 'physical' illnesses - I can assure you that doesn't make her innocent. If she can use them to her own ends she will.

Beautiful

In addition to Equus' response which was quite accurate, I would add that living a life free of codependency doesn't revolve around the other person anyway. For example, if you go to a restaurant and you have given up smoking, it doesn't take the rights away from the people in the smoking section to smoke. It is how you interact or react to them - or elect to not act at all- that is the heart of breaking the codependent cycle.


Living with an addict of any kind is like a slow drowning. You have plenty of air at first, then they start pulling you down. Pretty soon, you think that one gulp of air every 5 seconds is ok, then one gulp every 10 seconds, etc. At some point, 1 gulp every 2 minutes is considered normal because you're used to it. That's why it affects the family. What you would've considered "abnormal" to look in on from the outside is really "normal" for those living it. The disease is designed that way. The person living with the addict must first regain the sense of "normal" which is more difficult if you don't have a sense of where "normal" lies. Once I made the decision to break the cycle, it wasn't long before my husband was fully aware of needing to get his **** together. Had he stayed the same, he would be alone right now. He now works on progress. Breaking the cycle is what each person *can* do. Married or single, wouldn't make a stitch of difference until the cycle is broken.

cupowater

He is not exactly a burden. Only if I made it that way. I work on myself and my growth. I leave him alone in his alcoholism (his "afair") It is not MY problem, and I will not let it be. We have a lot of good times when he is sober, and he is basicly a good man. Living together with him, I live a better life, and there is some family stability for our "kids" (23 and 19) I have talked to them about it and they have an open door policy to talk to me about "A's" sickness whenever they want.
I know that whatever happend, I will survive, and be happy. That is the most important thing. For now I live one day at a time..

avsml67

I stay, for now, because I love him and I believe he loves me.
I stay, for now, because he is trying.
I stay, for now, because I am not perfect either, and have played a role in how the "we" that is "us" ended up here and I too contributed to the problems we have. Leaving without trying to work through our issues feels like a cop out.
I stay, for now, because I don't want to make a mistake.
I stay, for now, because I choose to.