JessicaNAJ

My AH came over tonight. He said he wanted to come over to see the kids, knowing full well our daughter was sleeping and our son was playing with his friends. Anyway, I said "Ok" and he came over. After about 20 minutes or so, I told him to go ahead and wake our daughter up so she wouldn't be up all night.

He was sitting outside with her and I'm thinking to myself....he is doing absolutely nothing for me to get mad about (which is really odd because usually just his presence gets under my skin - and I was actually enjoying what little bit of time I had watching TV / the shows I can't watch because usually the only thing on is cartoons). Well, our daughter wants to get her bike out. He told her no because it was getting dark and she'd have to come in a few. So, of course, she gets mad and comes inside and tells me all about it. I told her "no" also, because it was going to be dark soon. She starts getting mad and tells me I'm mean (she's been doing this all week). My AH is standing right behind me....do you think he said anything to her - of course not. So I tell her she don't talk to me that way. She stomps her feet and says "Hmpf". Anyway, the situation escalated and I end up making her, no forcing her to sit.

A few minutes after she was allowed up, she goes outside. I took a walk and tried to figure out why this is bothering me so much. I hate to say this, but I'm actually started to really really get mad at my daughter because of her defiant attitude ~ she's only three, what the hell is wrong with me. I will not act like my mom and make her feel like she's to blame for my feelings.....I won't I won't I won't. My patients with her is gone. She is so demanding of my attention and the second she don't get her way, she screams and gets more demanding. All I hear is I want this, I want that and if she don't get what she wants, she screams. Even now as I type this she is screaming she wants to take a bath. I try to stay calm and tell her, it's too late you have to go to bed, but it don't work. She won't listen to me!

Then I get mad at my AH because he don't speak up and help me out (he left when I called the kids in for the night). I even asked him why he just stood there and let her talk to me like that. (She called me an idiot yesterday!) He said, "I just figured I'd let you discipline her your way. I talked to her when she came back out." (Sure he tells her five minutes after she acted up.) What about supporting me and backing me up. He says if he did that I'd just say, "I got it...stay out of it." (Which I've only done a handful of times at the beginning of our seperation.) I've only been telling him for a week now that she's driving me crazy and I don't know what to do with her - does he not know the difference?

I'm at my wits end with her. I'm at the point, I don't know what do to. I try to ignore her tantrums, patiently try to tell her to hold on until I'm finished (if I'm in the middle of something) - she screams at me, tells me no, says I'm mean, calls me an idiot, defiantly screams I want this I want that. SHE"S ONLY 3 YEARS OLD.

Gawd .... I feel like I'm loosing it. What is wrong with me????

FormerDoormat

You're not losing it, Jessica. You have a three-year-old, and that's what three-year-olds do. Your daughter is maturing and she's realizing that she has ideas of her own and opinions of her own, and she's testing the waters to see what she can get away with. She's learning that she can control her environment, and she's trying to control you in the process.

Once she learns her boundaries (and your's too), she'll return to the little sweetheart that you've always adored. This is normal childhood development, and this, too, shall pass.

It's OK to feel frustrated with her, it's OK to feel like you're losing it. It's a normal reaction to a challenging age. It doesn't make you a bad mom or a bad person, it makes you human. You're doing a great job. Don't be so hard on yourself.

This would be a good night to make sure you take care of yourself. So, what are you waiting for? What would make you feel pampered tonight?

JessicaNAJ

A good hard cry!! That would feel so good right now. But the kids are still up and I can't let them see me cry (mommy never cries)....so I'll just hold it in, I guess.

How can someone so precious, adorable and so beautiful, be so d@mn onery?? She is so innocent and so rotten.

What can I do to fix this??

FormerDoormat

Why wait? Just hop in the shower and have a good cry. They won't hear a peep.

walkingtheline

Screaming is not okay.

There are lots of moms here and I'm sure we've all faced behavior problems.
The two best methods I had were:

I explained they got ONE warning. If one of my four began any "fit" I'd say, "this is your warning". If the behavior did not stop, they started losing privileges. The "loss" depended on the child. It might be "no tv this evening" or "no outside time tomorrow" or "no phone" or "no bike/skates/skateboard or "no going to friends" ect. I'd state it and then ignore them. That was method #2. Ignore it. Totally. When very young they could yell or kick until I thought I'd lose my mind but eventually they get tired and they stop. That evening, they'd watch no tv or have no phone time or be unable to play outside or whatever had been "earned".

Name calling or even worse, hitting or biting put them in a very boring room...the laundry room was often perfect, nothing to do, nothing to play with, nothing to watch and they'd be put there immediately. "You will stay here until I come to get you. Disrespect and name calling is never acceptable." Once they'd had time to calm down I'd go back and get them and explain again. "You've lost THIS because of your behavior. You will apologize to WHOEVER you disrespected and I expect you never to behave that way again. I love you dearly and want you to be as good in action as I know you are inside."

I found consistancy, hating the sin but never the sinner and yet acting in love was fairly effective.

Amazingly we all survived. All four are grown, responsible and have never needed bail money! hahaha.

I'm sure others can tell you about their methods.

JessicaNAJ

Thank you FD....

Sometimes I feel like I'm a horrible mom and no one understands me. I feel like my AH looks at me like I'm psycho (only b/c he's told me I am for the last 14 years).

Your kind words and understanding are the first thing that have brought me to tears (my tears) for a long long time. I thought I was all dried up.

Now I have to figure out how to fix this issue with her....and me.

JessicaNAJ

Thank you WTL

I'm not sure what priviledges I can take away from her. I like the boring room idea, but she'd just open the door and walk out. I can't just lock her in there...isn't that abuse?

Tuesday, I told her to sit. When she didn't I counted to three and told her if I got to three one of her toys was going in the garbage. It took three toys before she finally sat. Wednesday was much better. Today.....ugh!!!

What is too much for a three year old? I know I'm supposed to be the adult, but after a while, her behavior goes right through me. There is something terribly wrong with that.

FormerDoormat

Jessica:

Let me share a story with you about a night when I was at my wits end and I thought I was the world's worst mother.

My daughter was just a few months old. I had just returned to work and, as I've mentioned earlier, I was a single mother with no father in sight. This one evening she began to cry, and cry, and cry. I did all the typical things to quiet her. I fed her, I checked her diaper, I checked her for fever, I cuddled and rocked her. Yet the crying continued. And continued. And continued late into the night and eventually into the wee hours of the morning.

I started out responding in a kind, patient, and loving, manner. A typical, loving mom. But as the hours dragged on, and I became exhausted and frustrated beyond words, I looked at her and thought "oh, goodness, you're ugly when you cry." As the clocked ticked away, my soothing words became less soothing, and I began to talk to her in a not-so-nice manner. Eventually, when it was just 2 hours before I had to wake up for work, I became so out of my mind that I had visions of flinging her across the room.

I panicked. I thought I was a potential child abuser. So, at 4:30 am in the morning, I sought the advice of a more experienced mom, one who had lovingly raised seven children, including me, my mom.

When she picked up the phone, she asked what was wrong, and I burst into tears. I said "oh, mom, I'm a terrible mother. The baby has been crying for hours and I don't know what's wrong with her. And furthermore, I'm having the most hateful thoughts--like it would feel good to throw her across the room. I think I may be a potential child abuser."

Well, do you know what my wise, experienced mom asked me? She said, "did you throw her across the room? Did you hurt her? I said, "no, but the thought of it would feel good."

She said, "well, then go back to sleep, you're completely normal."

JessicaNAJ

Thank you!!! I really needed that... More than I can express right now, I really needed that.

FormerDoormat

No problem. Now I believe a hot shower is in order. Night, Jess.

JessicaNAJ

Good night FD.

JT

Jess...I think she may be reacting to her daddy being gone and all the the "stuff". They are very smart.

And could you be feeling quilty about it?

Parenting from a place of guilt does no one any good. Trust me on this...I did it. Beav's biological dad left and Ward stepped in with his own version of parenting. Me? I found myself in the middle and ended up doing my own share of damage by tolerating things I shouldn't have.

Being firm, with age appropriate conseqences is doing her a favor in the long run.

((((Hugs,))))
JT

wraybear

I agree. Firm with consequences, period. That's the end of it... no yelling, no hitting, no guilt for mom.

I always felt "guilty" with my two older ones, so I didn't discipline them well. These two little ones I have now know that I say what I mean. That is probably one of the biggest things I have done differently and am doing better. I don't have to get mad, or lose my temper anymore! It is so wonderful to NOT feel out of control like I did with my first two. And, I also pick my battles better now. That has helped tremendously too. Mine are almost 6 and 8 so, quite a big difference than 3. But, sitting on a chair, or sitting on the step worked at that age with three of my four. One was very strong-willed, and wouldn't sit, so I got those door knob covers, and put her in her room with the door know cover on the INSIDE, so she couldn't open her door. She could come out once she was calm and if necessary, an apology.


I had a girlfriend who had two kids the same age as mine (this was 15 year ago), and we would call each other crying saying we felt like horrible parents. Almost abusive. Fortunately I had a good friend who worked with abused children, and very similar to FD's story above, she said "did you hit her with the hanger?" and I said well no, but I was afraid i might... and she said that's where the difference lies between an abuser and a non-abuser. The non-abusers stop themselves.

Take care. Hope you feel better tomorrow tootsie!

equus

Have you ever thought of a sticker chart? You take a behaviour that drives you up the pole (e.g. screaming), then you think how often that behaviour is displayed (e.g. 3 times a day) and the frequency sets the standard for the sticker as a reward - if it's three times a day then there's a sticker for no screaming in the morning, a sticker for no screaming in the afternoon, and one for no screaming at night - 3 stickers = a reward.

To make it work even better you also need to think about an alternative behaviour - would you have been happier if she had tried tiny tot negotiations? "Oh but mummy, daddy is here and I promise to go to bed straight after....". At three she's hard wired to attempt to alter your boundries - she's hard wired to push them, for a more peaceful life it's better to shape her behaviour into acceptable forms of pushing. If she comes up with a well articulated dozzee of a statement it may even be worth teaching her that on occasion she can win a dispute.

I agree with firm boundaries but I used to run behavioural programmes for toddlers with autism (and often sibs needed some ... errrrr.... 'attention'), teaching new more functional behaviours is easier than 'just' getting rid of dysfunctional ones, and quicker, and more peaceful, less frought, etc etc.

Last of all you're instincts that tell you to remember she's 3 are spot on. We all know how frustrating it is to lose an argument and dispite our wisdom that we have to abide by the rules and accept it, there are few adults that can honestly say they never just lose the plot! She has the language now to leave screaming behind, but not quite enough language to always get her point across - she alos has all the baby habits when screaming was a much needed form of communication. She's going through a HUGE developmental transition - she's learning the power of words and will frequently get frustrated when words don't work, then it's back to giving babyhood a whirl.

BTW - You've just reminded me to take my pill!!

cwohio

((jess)) - no little ones to deal with in my house (except ah and cats) but wanted you to know that i give you credit - being a mom AND dealing with an ah has got to be a burden at times! may the sun shine on you today and warm you!

hugs - chris

escape artist

sometimes i get the impression that when i am teaching my children behavioral lessons, my AH is learning right along with them. could be why you won't get any help from him, he's acting out emotionally at about the same level as the 3 year old! THat is the age of becoming the little "tyrant" if it is not reaffirmed who the parent is and who the kid is-confidently, gently, but firmly.

JessicaNAJ

JT - I feel guilty because I need a break. I feel guilty because I yell back at her (which seems the only way to get her attention sometimes). The sound of her voice, sometimes, wears me out. I try to ignore her.

She has been babied since she was a baby. Neighbors and my old sitter gave her anything she wanted...before she was one, I'd say no ice cream...they'd give her Ice Cream. I'd say no caffeine, they'd give her caffeine... Why, because she would cry and get her way! My AH is no help...he's so darn layed back and he lets her walk all over him too. It's like I'm the only one who can teach her discipline. The new sitter has 2 toddlers and a 4 year old. The toddlers scream all day and the 4 year old has the "mature" attitude. While I'm told my daughter is good at the sitters, she comes home and totally reeks havoc. I tell her to give me a minute to get in the door to put my purse down, change my clothes and make my bed. She wants her Juice "NOW". Then I have to deal with telling her she needs to wait. I guess I could get her juice, but then what does that teach her....if she cries and begs enough, she'll get her way??

I do feel better today, but I'm anticipating how things are going to be when I get home. I don't want to go home.

I get so mad at myself for thinking....I should just let my AH take her - get her out of my hair for a while. I really think my AH is doing better and won't drink while he has the kids, but that thinking is for the wrong reason.

And yes, there have been many times I wanted to throw her across the room - I stop myself. I have grabbed her arms a little hard sometimes to get her attention, but I would never intentionally hurt my kids. It scares me!! I know how strong my anxiety gets and I'm afraid one day, I won't be able to stop myself.

equus

No - you are right tostick to boundaries - but the days she doesn't scream are easy not to notice. Rewarding good behaviour helps with that - but where she screams her head off she has to learn she doesn't get.

Have you ever had your car door lock freeze?? First you try the key again and again. It's only when you know the key won't work you try something else. It's only when you understand why the key didn't work that you start with a new behaviour from the begining. The repeating of behaviour that isn't working (first stage ) is called an extinction burst - the screaming goes up in volume and frequency before new behavioursa alre looked for - stand your ground and the behaviour WILL become extinct. All the way through do anything and everything to reward what you DO want to see in her.

Oooo 'eck I'm so glad I don't have this 24/7!! It does work though.

If the behaviour is rewarded elsewhere it will take longer for her to learn it won't be rewarded by you - it will also be more stressful for her too, she won't understand why but she still has to learn. Again that's why rewarding the good can be so much more effective.

queenofthehwy

Great point!!!!
(((((Jessica)))))
I know how hard 3 year old are. Terrible twos are nothing. My kids hit 3 and I swear I thought they were not going to make it to 4. I don't have any good advice for you, I am not the best mom in the world, we are just lucky to make it through the day.
((((bighugs))))) Just know this will get better.
Mindi

JessicaNAJ

I just want my baby back.....My sweet little angel. I want to be able to enjoy my time with her. I do not remember my son being this hard. But then I was on prozac and I could easily make my AH look after him while I took a break. Maybe I need prozac again?

But, is there something wrong with me or do I think there is b/c my AH made me feel, for years, like I was psycho? (We did get along much better when I was on prozac.) I feel like, if he sees me "freaking" out b/c I'm tired and overwhelmed, that I have to get defensive.....I don't know, kinda like..I'm getting more mad at myself b/c I don't want him to look at me as if I was psychotic or something.

I'm rambling......sorry