Avoiding Rescuing
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
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Avoiding Rescuing
Ten Rules to Avoid Rescues:
Although there are many ways of Rescuing an alcoholic, some ways are typical. Here are ten of them:
1. When three or more suggestions to an alcoholic have been rejects you are Rescuing. Instead, offer one or two, and wait to see whether they are acceptable. If they are not, stop making suggestions. Don't play "Why don't you… Yes, but…"
2. It's O.K. to investigate possible therapists for an alcoholic, but never make an appointment for him or her. Any therapist who is willing to make an appointment with an alcoholic through a third arson is probably a potential Rescuer and eventual Persecutor.
3. Do not remove liquor, pour liquor down the drain, or look for hidden stashes of liquor in an alcoholic's house, unless you're asked to do so by the alcoholic. Conversely, do not ever buy, serve, mix for, or offer alcohol to an alcoholic.
4. Do not engage in lengthy conversations about alcoholism or a person's alcoholic problem while the person is drunk or drinking; that will be a waste of time and energy, and will be completely forgotten by him in most cases when he sobers up.
5. Never lend money to a drinking alcoholic. Do not allow a drunk alcoholic to come to your house, or, worse, drink in your house. Instead, in as loving and nurturing a way as possible, ask to see her again when she is sober.
6. Do not get involved in errands repair jobs, cleanups, long drives, pickups, or deliveries for an alcoholic who is not actively participating in fighting his alcoholism.
7. When you are relating to an alcoholic, do not commit the common error of seeing only the good and justifying the bad. "He's so wonderful when he's sober" is a common mistake people make with respect to alcoholics. The alcoholic is a whole person, and his personality includes both his good and bad parts. They cannot be separated from each other. Either take the whole person or none at all. If the balance comes out consistently in the red, it is foolish to look only on the credit side.
8. Do not remain silent on the subject of another's alcoholism. Don't hesitate to express yourself freely on the subject, what you don't like, what you won't stand for, what you think about it, what you want or how it makes you feel. But don't do it with the expectation of being thanked or creating a change; it’s not likely to happen. Do it just to be on the record. Often your outspoken attitude will be taken seriously and appreciated, though it may not bring about any immediate changes. Just as often it will unleash a barrage of defensiveness and even anger which you should staunchly absorb without weakening.
9. Be aware of not doing anything that you don't want to do for the alcoholic. It is bad enough if you commit any of the above mistakes willingly. But when you add to them the complications of doing them when you would prefer not to, you are compounding your mistake and fostering an eventual Persecution.
10. Never believe that an alcoholic is hopeless. Keep your willingness to help ready, offer it often, and make it available whenever you detect a genuine interest and effort on the alcoholics part. When that happens, don't overreact, but help cautiously and without Rescuing; doing only what you want to do, and no more than your share.
If you want to read a whole lot more, check out
http://www.emotional-literacy.com/hea1.htm
After you've read the first section, click on the link at the bottom to move through the next 2.
Although there are many ways of Rescuing an alcoholic, some ways are typical. Here are ten of them:
1. When three or more suggestions to an alcoholic have been rejects you are Rescuing. Instead, offer one or two, and wait to see whether they are acceptable. If they are not, stop making suggestions. Don't play "Why don't you… Yes, but…"
2. It's O.K. to investigate possible therapists for an alcoholic, but never make an appointment for him or her. Any therapist who is willing to make an appointment with an alcoholic through a third arson is probably a potential Rescuer and eventual Persecutor.
3. Do not remove liquor, pour liquor down the drain, or look for hidden stashes of liquor in an alcoholic's house, unless you're asked to do so by the alcoholic. Conversely, do not ever buy, serve, mix for, or offer alcohol to an alcoholic.
4. Do not engage in lengthy conversations about alcoholism or a person's alcoholic problem while the person is drunk or drinking; that will be a waste of time and energy, and will be completely forgotten by him in most cases when he sobers up.
5. Never lend money to a drinking alcoholic. Do not allow a drunk alcoholic to come to your house, or, worse, drink in your house. Instead, in as loving and nurturing a way as possible, ask to see her again when she is sober.
6. Do not get involved in errands repair jobs, cleanups, long drives, pickups, or deliveries for an alcoholic who is not actively participating in fighting his alcoholism.
7. When you are relating to an alcoholic, do not commit the common error of seeing only the good and justifying the bad. "He's so wonderful when he's sober" is a common mistake people make with respect to alcoholics. The alcoholic is a whole person, and his personality includes both his good and bad parts. They cannot be separated from each other. Either take the whole person or none at all. If the balance comes out consistently in the red, it is foolish to look only on the credit side.
8. Do not remain silent on the subject of another's alcoholism. Don't hesitate to express yourself freely on the subject, what you don't like, what you won't stand for, what you think about it, what you want or how it makes you feel. But don't do it with the expectation of being thanked or creating a change; it’s not likely to happen. Do it just to be on the record. Often your outspoken attitude will be taken seriously and appreciated, though it may not bring about any immediate changes. Just as often it will unleash a barrage of defensiveness and even anger which you should staunchly absorb without weakening.
9. Be aware of not doing anything that you don't want to do for the alcoholic. It is bad enough if you commit any of the above mistakes willingly. But when you add to them the complications of doing them when you would prefer not to, you are compounding your mistake and fostering an eventual Persecution.
10. Never believe that an alcoholic is hopeless. Keep your willingness to help ready, offer it often, and make it available whenever you detect a genuine interest and effort on the alcoholics part. When that happens, don't overreact, but help cautiously and without Rescuing; doing only what you want to do, and no more than your share.
If you want to read a whole lot more, check out
http://www.emotional-literacy.com/hea1.htm
After you've read the first section, click on the link at the bottom to move through the next 2.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Riverview, MI
Posts: 20
Thanks. I consider myself a very caring person for my family, as my dad is an alcoholic. Yikes...it still feels funny to say it, even though I know it's true, but it's been swept under the rug for too long. I have had ambitons to "rescue" my dad, but this is a bit of an eye opener.
My whole family needs to let him know that we love him and will support him if he wishes to quit and I want to make some suggestions on what he should do.
"3. Do not remove liquor, pour liquor down the drain, or look for hidden stashes of liquor in an alcoholic's house, unless you're asked to do so by the alcoholic. Conversely, do not ever buy, serve, mix for, or offer alcohol to an alcoholic."
I'm proud of myself..a bit. If the alcohol were to be ridden from the house, it would not be me pouring it out or anyone else than him.
"7. When you are relating to an alcoholic, do not commit the common error of seeing only the good and justifying the bad. "He's so wonderful when he's sober" is a common mistake people make with respect to alcoholics. The alcoholic is a whole person, and his personality includes both his good and bad parts. They cannot be separated from each other. Either take the whole person or none at all. If the balance comes out consistently in the red, it is foolish to look only on the credit side."
That's another one. While I do agree with it, I can't deny the fact that I enjoy being around my dad more when he is sober vs. drunk. I believe I understand the concept it is trying to get across.
How would you all out there relate to and confront the issue of #7???
My whole family needs to let him know that we love him and will support him if he wishes to quit and I want to make some suggestions on what he should do.
"3. Do not remove liquor, pour liquor down the drain, or look for hidden stashes of liquor in an alcoholic's house, unless you're asked to do so by the alcoholic. Conversely, do not ever buy, serve, mix for, or offer alcohol to an alcoholic."
I'm proud of myself..a bit. If the alcohol were to be ridden from the house, it would not be me pouring it out or anyone else than him.
"7. When you are relating to an alcoholic, do not commit the common error of seeing only the good and justifying the bad. "He's so wonderful when he's sober" is a common mistake people make with respect to alcoholics. The alcoholic is a whole person, and his personality includes both his good and bad parts. They cannot be separated from each other. Either take the whole person or none at all. If the balance comes out consistently in the red, it is foolish to look only on the credit side."
That's another one. While I do agree with it, I can't deny the fact that I enjoy being around my dad more when he is sober vs. drunk. I believe I understand the concept it is trying to get across.
How would you all out there relate to and confront the issue of #7???
Wipe your paws elsewhere!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,672
3. Do not remove liquor, pour liquor down the drain, or look for hidden stashes of liquor in an alcoholic's house, unless you're asked to do so by the alcoholic. Conversely, do not ever buy, serve, mix for, or offer alcohol to an alcoholic.
If this is codie behavior, I give you all my permission to *itch slap some sense into me.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: US
Posts: 316
Originally Posted by FormerDoormat
Question about item number 3: Would you consider it "rescuing" to pour the liquor down the drain if you've set a boundary, like I did as the sole owner of my house, that alcohol is not allowed in my home? Or would you consider this my way of sticking to a boundary I've set? Obviously, I did this several times when my AB brought liquor into my home after I asked him not to. Or am I just fooling myself and this is considered "rescuing" in either scenario?
If this is codie behavior, I give you all my permission to *itch slap some sense into me.
If this is codie behavior, I give you all my permission to *itch slap some sense into me.
If you are comfortable with banning alcohol from YOUR home and willing to stick with it across people, that has everything to do with YOU and what you do and don't allow in your home.
My opinion anyway.
Acting not reacting
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: My happy place
Posts: 1,788
[QUOTE]6. Do not get involved in errands repair jobs, cleanups, long drives, pickups, or deliveries for an alcoholic who is not actively participating in fighting his alcoholism.
This is a really hard one for me, bc I dont see the harm (Right away) in doing these things, bc afterall - he's trying right? No, he wasnt bc he wasnt actively participating in his own fight. That is one I will remember and I am sure I will quote! I think it was Gelfing who said she was raised in religous home to do for others and I was also raised that way, so it mucks your sense of self up and man am I ready to stop rescuing...
This is a really hard one for me, bc I dont see the harm (Right away) in doing these things, bc afterall - he's trying right? No, he wasnt bc he wasnt actively participating in his own fight. That is one I will remember and I am sure I will quote! I think it was Gelfing who said she was raised in religous home to do for others and I was also raised that way, so it mucks your sense of self up and man am I ready to stop rescuing...
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
[QUOTE=elizabeth1979] It doesn't when it's seen in conjunction with:
That's one of the first things I've seen written that really encourage me. By these standards I'm doing okay (stuff it, if that sounds arrogant, then so be it!).
The only one that got me a little was wondering about seeing all the good things and not the bad - but hell, I'm a newly wed married to the only guy I've ever loved, who I just happened to have spent nine years thinking was dead!! I can forgive myself a little -and I sure as hell see faults (he can't wash up for toffee and his cooking stinks!!).
6. Do not get involved in errands repair jobs, cleanups, long drives, pickups, or deliveries for an alcoholic who is not actively participating in fighting his alcoholism.
This is a really hard one for me, bc I dont see the harm (Right away) in doing these things, bc afterall - he's trying right? No, he wasnt bc he wasnt actively participating in his own fight. That is one I will remember and I am sure I will quote! I think it was Gelfing who said she was raised in religous home to do for others and I was also raised that way, so it mucks your sense of self up and man am I ready to stop rescuing...
This is a really hard one for me, bc I dont see the harm (Right away) in doing these things, bc afterall - he's trying right? No, he wasnt bc he wasnt actively participating in his own fight. That is one I will remember and I am sure I will quote! I think it was Gelfing who said she was raised in religous home to do for others and I was also raised that way, so it mucks your sense of self up and man am I ready to stop rescuing...
Keep your willingness to help ready, offer it often, and make it available whenever you detect a genuine interest and effort on the alcoholics part.
The only one that got me a little was wondering about seeing all the good things and not the bad - but hell, I'm a newly wed married to the only guy I've ever loved, who I just happened to have spent nine years thinking was dead!! I can forgive myself a little -and I sure as hell see faults (he can't wash up for toffee and his cooking stinks!!).
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Lake Luzerne
Posts: 1,786
so.......
Are you saying don't go pick him up when the bar calls and asks you to? Are you saying let him get into the car and drive drunk without trying to stop him? We have lived in this house for 7 years. I have never had a friend over. I have thre adult kids and two are not ever coming here again. I'd like to have a friend over, I'd like to see my sons freely and have them over. Are you saying don't bail him out and if he loses his job knowing I will be left to carry the ful load of the bills? My husband won't be ignored. Alcohol works like a stimulant to him. The last time everyone tried ignoring him, he spilled a drink on me fell backward and knocked me down. He grabbed two women who were other mens wives and picked them up and started to twirl them around, insisting they dance with them. When he is drunk and knocking me down and putting his hands on other women, how do you ignore that? These two women scrambled away from him startled and upset. One of these ladies dress was up to her waist when he picked her up exposing her bottom. I shouldn't stop him from calling my work drunk? I'm an RN. My mother just lost her husband, Should she be expected to just ignore him? I think ignoring him is great, except he won't be ignored so I would be happy for advice on how I should handle thse specific situatons. My husbands behavior with these women wasn't illegal, it was demeaning to them and to me. He has no entitlement to yank a woman onto the dance floor and she complies because she is trying to ignore him. People are human, I can respond in one way but I can not dictate how the public responds.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Anaheim,CA
Posts: 549
Nothing changes if nothing changes. Don't worry if HE changes, your only concern is how you behave and you can make whatever changes are best for you.
YES
Take his keys, pull his distributer, flatten his tire, but do not engage in a tado with him directly
YES You'll find a way to deal with the bills.
You stand back and allow the women to slap his face, notify the authorities or their men to deal with him. If someone knocks you down, be they your husband or a stranger, you have them arrested!
If you set a boundary of don't call me at work and he calls, you simply hang up or inform the switchboard to not put the call through. If he's calling your cell phone, block the number.
Yes, you should ask her to join you in ignoring his behavior. And she's free to set her own boundaries as well.
Of course he can be ignored, he does not think for you or anyone other than himself, he does not have strings on your limbs! He does NOT get to dictate how others act! If he "acts out" he should be held accountable for his actions. Same goes with his behavior with other women or anything else. THEY can react any way they seem fit...their behavior is not your problem, either.
Please find your local alanon meetings. Attend. Read. Learn. You are entitled to peace, to happiness. And you can have it.
Are you saying don't go pick him up when the bar calls and asks you to
Are you saying let him get into the car and drive drunk without trying to stop him?
Are you saying don't bail him out and if he loses his job knowing I will be left to carry the ful load of the bills?
He grabbed two women who were other mens wives and picked them up and started to twirl them around, insisting they dance with them. When he is drunk and knocking me down and putting his hands on other women, how do you ignore that?
I shouldn't stop him from calling my work drunk?
Should she be expected to just ignore him?
he won't be ignored
Please find your local alanon meetings. Attend. Read. Learn. You are entitled to peace, to happiness. And you can have it.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
I had a rule, no alcohol on my property. No, that does not mean I poured it out. I re-stated my boundary and they could either pour it out themselves or leave. If they would do neither I would call the police to have them removed, facing this prospect they usually leave.
1000 Post Club
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Recoveryville, USA
Posts: 1,297
<Are you saying don't go pick him up when the bar calls and asks you to? Are you saying let him get into the car and drive drunk without trying to stop him? We have lived in this house for 7 years. I have never had a friend over. I have thre adult kids and two are not ever coming here again. I'd like to have a friend over, I'd like to see my sons freely and have them over. Are you saying don't bail him out and if he loses his job knowing I will be left to carry the ful load of the bills? >
Dear Mallow,
Yes.
Love,
FOB
Dear Mallow,
Yes.
Love,
FOB
Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Riverview, MI
Posts: 20
Originally Posted by minnie
7. When you are relating to an alcoholic, do not commit the common error of seeing only the good and justifying the bad. "He's so wonderful when he's sober" is a common mistake people make with respect to alcoholics. The alcoholic is a whole person, and his personality includes both his good and bad parts. They cannot be separated from each other. Either take the whole person or none at all. If the balance comes out consistently in the red, it is foolish to look only on the credit side.
How would you all out there relate to and confront the issue of #7???
Once again,
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
Originally Posted by DJBucs2005
Once again, while I do agree with it, I can't deny the fact that I enjoy being around my dad more when he is sober vs. drunk. I believe I understand the concept it is trying to get across.
How would you all out there relate to and confront the issue of #7???
Once again,
How would you all out there relate to and confront the issue of #7???
Once again,
Having said that if my hubby was abusive drunk, or his faults were the kind to have a huge impact on my self esteem - I'm sure I'd think differently. As it is his faults are more annoying than anything, never finishig the washing up is BL**DY annoying!!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 390
Mallocup, I think Walkingtheline said it the best!
DJBcus2005, that is a tough one. It is hard for me to seperate the two. Yes, My AH is a very good and inteligent and loving man when sober, but I don't like him very much (or respect him for that matter) when he is drunk. If you read my post about "The Good and the Bad" you will see that I have just as much good as I do bad.
DJBcus2005, that is a tough one. It is hard for me to seperate the two. Yes, My AH is a very good and inteligent and loving man when sober, but I don't like him very much (or respect him for that matter) when he is drunk. If you read my post about "The Good and the Bad" you will see that I have just as much good as I do bad.
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