Alcoholism, a disease, like diabetes, cancer, etc.
Caring for the 3 little bears
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Oz
Posts: 509
Alcoholism, a disease, like diabetes, cancer, etc.
this is where i have a hard time with alcoholism being a "disease" and that some say our A's should be treated as such.
In the Sunday movie, last week, about the woman who had Parkinson's, she hit a guy in a truck at 10:00am in the morning because she couldn't get her foot to move fast enough. The guy in the truck accused her of drinking at 10:00 in the morning. When she told him she had Parkinson's, he was much more sympathetic.
If my daughter was killed in a car wreck because of someone who had a heart attack, or a seizure or something like that, I doubt that person would be charged with murder. However, if an alcoholic caused the accident, don't they deserve to be charged with murder? The person who had a seizure had no choice, it just happened. The alcoholic did have a choice... a choice to drink and drive.
Can someone who understands the "compare it diabetes" philosophy please explain. I really don't get it.
In the Sunday movie, last week, about the woman who had Parkinson's, she hit a guy in a truck at 10:00am in the morning because she couldn't get her foot to move fast enough. The guy in the truck accused her of drinking at 10:00 in the morning. When she told him she had Parkinson's, he was much more sympathetic.
If my daughter was killed in a car wreck because of someone who had a heart attack, or a seizure or something like that, I doubt that person would be charged with murder. However, if an alcoholic caused the accident, don't they deserve to be charged with murder? The person who had a seizure had no choice, it just happened. The alcoholic did have a choice... a choice to drink and drive.
Can someone who understands the "compare it diabetes" philosophy please explain. I really don't get it.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: MO
Posts: 20
I think it's relating to the 3 C's, Didn't cause, can't control it, can't cure it. The reason it's different from diabetes, or say parkinson, is because you can put Alcoholism in remission.
Make sense?
Hope this helps
Make sense?
Hope this helps
Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: East Coast
Posts: 25
How do you know if you are truely an "alcoholic" vs problem drinker? Can a problem drinker say "I couldn't help it. The devil made me do it"? Is there a real medical test to differentiate between the two? Just curious because I don't understand how an alcoholic should not be held accountable.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: MO
Posts: 20
An alchohlic can not control his drinking. Just like a diabetic can not control his sugar level.
A diabetics sugar goes out of whack on it's own, and the diabetic has to regulate it with insulin and a proper diet.
An alcoholic craves a substance. He can not control his craving. He looses all self-discipline. It takes over his body. Kind of like cigerettes. He has to NOT regulate it, but abstain from it with a proper diet (continuous recovery program) like shooting insulin everyday.
Another difference between alchoholism being a disease and diabetes, cancer, or parkinsons being a disease is that alchoholism is a mental, physical, spiritual disease, whereas the others are basically physical.
That's why it is so insidious and reaches out and effects the one's who love them.
A diabetics sugar goes out of whack on it's own, and the diabetic has to regulate it with insulin and a proper diet.
An alcoholic craves a substance. He can not control his craving. He looses all self-discipline. It takes over his body. Kind of like cigerettes. He has to NOT regulate it, but abstain from it with a proper diet (continuous recovery program) like shooting insulin everyday.
Another difference between alchoholism being a disease and diabetes, cancer, or parkinsons being a disease is that alchoholism is a mental, physical, spiritual disease, whereas the others are basically physical.
That's why it is so insidious and reaches out and effects the one's who love them.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 193
This is a tough one for me to get my head around too.... so is any addiction a disease? Gambling, shopping, sex or just ones that chemically change the way your brain operates?
I got to thinking about those itty bitty blips in peoples DNA or whatever that cause them to have cancer or diabetes or alcoholism to see if it helped me understand it more - but it didn't help....about 20 years ago AH & I couldn't go a day without smoking cocaine, we lost just about everything... we eventually kicked it cold turkey & never looked back... Neither one of us could control our habit at the time but I would never consider myself as having a disease then or now (BTW I don't drink now - don't even like it really) However I always wonder why could he kick that habit & not this one???
Christine
I got to thinking about those itty bitty blips in peoples DNA or whatever that cause them to have cancer or diabetes or alcoholism to see if it helped me understand it more - but it didn't help....about 20 years ago AH & I couldn't go a day without smoking cocaine, we lost just about everything... we eventually kicked it cold turkey & never looked back... Neither one of us could control our habit at the time but I would never consider myself as having a disease then or now (BTW I don't drink now - don't even like it really) However I always wonder why could he kick that habit & not this one???
Christine
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 13
I too have been pondering the difference lately. I feel that my AH chooses to drink and what he calls his social life. What I have noticed recently now that I have a better understanding of this disease is that I recognize his moods are not just him being grumpy but going through withdrawl when he goes 2 days without. I understand it is a disease but it is my denial that makes me think that he has the capability to make the choice to just not drink.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
I think if someone drove knowing they were unfit to do so they would be held accountable by UK law - regardless of the condition.
I summed up by beliefs on the causes of alcoholism to the APAS (alcohol) counsellor I went to see last week. She felt I was as close as you can get to what we know. I said that my reading had left me feeling that there was evidence of a genetic link, that alcohol may have ALWAYS been metabolised by the alcoholic differently, that they may go on to develope allergies to hops, brewers yeast and alcohol itself, and that it effects mental health to an extent that would hinder them from seeking and getting appropriate help. I also said that I thought there was little evidence (apart from the genetics) to show how many of these factors were cause or effect.
What particarly interests me is the thought that alcohol may have been metabolised differently from the start, that could explain the mechanism of the genetic link - but it's just one of many educated guesses. I drank in my youth, I have friends who love to party far more than my hubby and yet he was the one who wound up hooked. In his extended family there are a fair number of alcoholics, he also had a childhood history of allergies. What I know for certain is that he's one of the quietest least hell raising people I know!!
On the drink driving, he went through full physical addiction but never drove drunk - for him that meant NEVER driving for five years. He ended up having to re-learn and overcome being quite frightened to drive at the same time. He still will not drive if he's had anything to drink on the same day - even one mouthful of beer.
I don't think alcoholism should be seen as identicle to drink driving. On the other hand where mental health has been effected it's hard to know where someone is or isn't responsible. In short I'm glad I'm not (and don't have to try to be) a judge trying and alcohol related car fatality.
I summed up by beliefs on the causes of alcoholism to the APAS (alcohol) counsellor I went to see last week. She felt I was as close as you can get to what we know. I said that my reading had left me feeling that there was evidence of a genetic link, that alcohol may have ALWAYS been metabolised by the alcoholic differently, that they may go on to develope allergies to hops, brewers yeast and alcohol itself, and that it effects mental health to an extent that would hinder them from seeking and getting appropriate help. I also said that I thought there was little evidence (apart from the genetics) to show how many of these factors were cause or effect.
What particarly interests me is the thought that alcohol may have been metabolised differently from the start, that could explain the mechanism of the genetic link - but it's just one of many educated guesses. I drank in my youth, I have friends who love to party far more than my hubby and yet he was the one who wound up hooked. In his extended family there are a fair number of alcoholics, he also had a childhood history of allergies. What I know for certain is that he's one of the quietest least hell raising people I know!!
On the drink driving, he went through full physical addiction but never drove drunk - for him that meant NEVER driving for five years. He ended up having to re-learn and overcome being quite frightened to drive at the same time. He still will not drive if he's had anything to drink on the same day - even one mouthful of beer.
I don't think alcoholism should be seen as identicle to drink driving. On the other hand where mental health has been effected it's hard to know where someone is or isn't responsible. In short I'm glad I'm not (and don't have to try to be) a judge trying and alcohol related car fatality.
Dancing To My Own Beat
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: I don't know what kind of state I'm in
Posts: 1,326
Alcoholism is a three fold disease, unlike cancer, which is one fold, physical. The mental illness, physical illness, and spiritual illness is and probably never will be viewed the same way.
If I see a homeless person, I immediately think, "Why don't they just take a bath, and go get a job." I have to look a little deeper to think that maybe they have a mental illness which prevents them from being capable of things I find simple.
If someone commits a crime because of a mental illness, they still have to answer to society for the action. Society cannot allow harm to come to some just because someone isn't capable of being civilized. They remove them, as best the system can, from harming others.
I put alcoholism in this class. It is an illness, but the results of that illness can harm others, and as a society, we can't allow that.
Having a relationship with someone with a mental illness, my judgement is clouded by emotion. I can't always see, nor am I capable of acting on, the truth. But I can seek help from those who have been through it, but aren't personally involved. Al-Anon and AA have many people who fit that description, and I have been helped immensely by them. Hugs, Magic
If I see a homeless person, I immediately think, "Why don't they just take a bath, and go get a job." I have to look a little deeper to think that maybe they have a mental illness which prevents them from being capable of things I find simple.
If someone commits a crime because of a mental illness, they still have to answer to society for the action. Society cannot allow harm to come to some just because someone isn't capable of being civilized. They remove them, as best the system can, from harming others.
I put alcoholism in this class. It is an illness, but the results of that illness can harm others, and as a society, we can't allow that.
Having a relationship with someone with a mental illness, my judgement is clouded by emotion. I can't always see, nor am I capable of acting on, the truth. But I can seek help from those who have been through it, but aren't personally involved. Al-Anon and AA have many people who fit that description, and I have been helped immensely by them. Hugs, Magic
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,709
There is so much more to alcoholism, and it's unpleasant manifestations and consequences, than meets the eye.
I think the challenge in coming to some sort of understanding about it, for both the alcoholic and his/her loved one, lies in the ability to accept it's reality, while acknowledging it's quasi undefinable reason for being.
If I stay stuck in the disease concept, and accept that there is no cure for it (which I do by the way), and don't supplement that with examining alcoholism as a changeable behavior, which it is, then I run the risk of being frustrated by looking for answers that may or may not exist.
Yet.
I think the challenge in coming to some sort of understanding about it, for both the alcoholic and his/her loved one, lies in the ability to accept it's reality, while acknowledging it's quasi undefinable reason for being.
If I stay stuck in the disease concept, and accept that there is no cure for it (which I do by the way), and don't supplement that with examining alcoholism as a changeable behavior, which it is, then I run the risk of being frustrated by looking for answers that may or may not exist.
Yet.
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
Hi there.
I am an alcoholic. I am also a diabetic. Neither disease is curable today.
However, I treat my diabetes by maintaining my diabetic eating plan, monitoring my blood sugar, and taking my insulin as prescribed based on my blood sugar.
I treat my alcoholism (for 23+ years now) by abstaining from alcohol, and by LIVING a 12 Step Program of Recovery. This program requires that I continue to WORK ON ME daily.
JMHO
Love and (((((to all))))),
I am an alcoholic. I am also a diabetic. Neither disease is curable today.
However, I treat my diabetes by maintaining my diabetic eating plan, monitoring my blood sugar, and taking my insulin as prescribed based on my blood sugar.
I treat my alcoholism (for 23+ years now) by abstaining from alcohol, and by LIVING a 12 Step Program of Recovery. This program requires that I continue to WORK ON ME daily.
JMHO
Love and (((((to all))))),
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
If I stay stuck in the disease concept, and accept that there is no cure for it (which I do by the way), and don't supplement that with examining alcoholism as a changeable behavior, which it is, then I run the risk of being frustrated by looking for answers that may or may not exist.
I get curious about causes treatments, all kinds of stuff - I would if my D had cancer or diabetes, I'm just a curious person!!
Cruelty-Free
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Body: South Florida Heart: Yosemite National Park
Posts: 914
Originally Posted by drgnfly30
so is any addiction a disease? Gambling, shopping, sex or just ones that chemically change the way your brain operates?
Christine
Christine
The initial question is a good one. I believe that alcoholism is indeed a disease, having been around thousands of alcoholics in my life (some sober, some not, some now dead) and paying attention to their stories and behaviors. I don't think that this is a free pass to kill or commit crimes. If I had cancer and robbed a drug store because my insurance wouldn't cover my chemo, I doubt the law would look the other way and leave me consequence-free. I'd still be held accountable, disease or not.
Yes, the alcoholic ALWAYS has a choice whether to pick up that next drink or not. My guess is that the compulsion must be extreme and overwhelming as the consequences are often painful and sometimes deadly. I'm grateful that I do not have to struggle with that compulsion today myself...
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