More questions...sorry...
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 782
More questions...sorry...
I received some good feedback on my stay or go post. Now it prompts another question. A lot of the thoughts I heard were that life didn't have to be this hard, suggesting that I could and maybe should leave while we are young and without kids. Of course others suggested I should attend an Alanon meeting to figure out my side of things before doing anything. Either way, I have a nagging thought here. I have heard stories of women being diagnosed with a disease, maybe MS for example, and their husbands leaving them. And I have thought what TERRIBLE people these men must be to leave their wives just because they couldn't handle living with their disease! I thought HOW SELFISH! You know, the whole "in sickness and in health" thing. So is alcoholism really different? Would that be just as terrible to abandon someone who has the disease of alcoholism? Deep down, I know that a big reason I keep coming up with arguments defending staying is because I'm terrified at the idea of starting over. I'm only 27, but what if I never meet anyone else? I don't have any kids yet, and I will want a family someday, I'm sure. Maybe he is my soulmate, if you believe in that stuff. But regardless of why I am coming up with these arguments for staying, can someone answer my question about whether it is OK to abandon the one you promised to never abandon just because he is sick? PLEASE know that I am NOT trying to suggest that any of you who have left have made a selfish choice. And I know everyone has very different circumstances. I don't want to make anyone mad!!! I am just struggling with this.
Acting not reacting
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: My happy place
Posts: 1,788
Texas Girl,
I am 25 and my A and I have no kids either. In sickness or health, an interesting view... I don't think MS and Alcoholism are quite the same, but see your point. I am not sure I am able to even have an opinion on that...although I don't think the vows ever were written with the intention of enduring constant fear and pain.
The thing I remember wanting to hear so much when I first came here, was what to do...just someone tell me what I should do! I remember people telling me that if they were in my shoes, they would run. I should have run then. Nobody can tell you what to do. By staying with him, I personally have helped tens of thousands of dollars get wasted, our credit get ruined, I have watched withdrawls so bad he ended up in the ER and me signing a power of attorney, I have bailed him our of jail 3 times, watched him lose jobs, watched 30 days of rehab only to realize, I dont really like ME anymore. I am working very hard to better myself so I can at least be happy with myself...I can't change him, but I can change myself. I have asked mine to leave by March 13th. I would leave, but its not his house.
It all depends on how much of yourself you are able to give up for someone else, bc that is ultimately what living with an alcoholic is...to me. Just my opinon.
Hope you find some truth and answers here
I am 25 and my A and I have no kids either. In sickness or health, an interesting view... I don't think MS and Alcoholism are quite the same, but see your point. I am not sure I am able to even have an opinion on that...although I don't think the vows ever were written with the intention of enduring constant fear and pain.
The thing I remember wanting to hear so much when I first came here, was what to do...just someone tell me what I should do! I remember people telling me that if they were in my shoes, they would run. I should have run then. Nobody can tell you what to do. By staying with him, I personally have helped tens of thousands of dollars get wasted, our credit get ruined, I have watched withdrawls so bad he ended up in the ER and me signing a power of attorney, I have bailed him our of jail 3 times, watched him lose jobs, watched 30 days of rehab only to realize, I dont really like ME anymore. I am working very hard to better myself so I can at least be happy with myself...I can't change him, but I can change myself. I have asked mine to leave by March 13th. I would leave, but its not his house.
It all depends on how much of yourself you are able to give up for someone else, bc that is ultimately what living with an alcoholic is...to me. Just my opinon.
Hope you find some truth and answers here
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: western canada
Posts: 1,441
Texas...
There is a fine line between the sickness/addiction relationship scenario's for sure.
I guess the determining factor for me would be how present the person was to have a relationship with. I've seen ill people still nurturing and adding volumes to a relationship... I've seen perfectly healthy addicts rip them apart with their non-caring and isolation... and I've seen addicts that can love and add as well. There is no pat answer.
I wholeheartedly suggest to anyone sharing space with an addict to begin understanding the disease of codependency. It's easier to make a decision I think when a person understands the dynamics of the dysfunction their faced with and why they were attracted to that person in the first place.
Eyes wide open... ;o)
There is a fine line between the sickness/addiction relationship scenario's for sure.
I guess the determining factor for me would be how present the person was to have a relationship with. I've seen ill people still nurturing and adding volumes to a relationship... I've seen perfectly healthy addicts rip them apart with their non-caring and isolation... and I've seen addicts that can love and add as well. There is no pat answer.
I wholeheartedly suggest to anyone sharing space with an addict to begin understanding the disease of codependency. It's easier to make a decision I think when a person understands the dynamics of the dysfunction their faced with and why they were attracted to that person in the first place.
Eyes wide open... ;o)
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Anaheim,CA
Posts: 549
Using your MS analogy...what if the spouse of someone with MS said:
"Ever since my spouse has needed a wheelchair he/she has run over me 4 times with it, is often emotionally withdrawn and abusive and rather than offering part of their check for the household they blow all their money on frivalous things leaving me with all the household expenses"...few people would wonder why you chose to leave.
You said: I'm over 50, gravity has not been my friend, I have a mouthful of screws covered by odd temporary teeth, I wish I could drop a few pounds and my hair color is provided by Loreal. Men are still interested. Should you choose to leave, it should not be based on whether you will find "Peter Perfect" or be alone-it should be a decision of what's best for you to lead your best life. But I can assure you, if you want a man...you'll have the opportunity to ...uh...test drive...hahaha...many.
"Ever since my spouse has needed a wheelchair he/she has run over me 4 times with it, is often emotionally withdrawn and abusive and rather than offering part of their check for the household they blow all their money on frivalous things leaving me with all the household expenses"...few people would wonder why you chose to leave.
You said:
I'm only 27, but what if I never meet anyone else?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: In my own world...
Posts: 444
The biggest thing to me is what the other person chooses to do with their sickness. I think that just because a person is sick doesn't take away all of their responsibility. If you knew a person who was prone to heart attacks would you not expect them to alter their eating habits, quit smoking like a chimney. For someone with diabetes, would you expect them to give up the sweets? For me, I know that quitting drinking isn't easy. It's not an off/on switch. It's more a matter of whether the person is making any effort at all. In my case, Abf knows he has a problem and he knows his drinking gets out of control and then gets him into trouble. I don't think there is anything wrong with expecting him to at least try to do something about it. Sure, he may have a disease but it's his job to do what he can to take precautions to ensure it doesn't get the best of him. Not only is it his job, but he's the only one who can make that decision.
I hope you can get past your fear of starting over. Maybe it would help to look at what you have right now and ask yourself it it's really what you want to have forever. I'm about the same age, and that's what finally got me. I wanted the same things, but I found it wasn't worth it to put up with the drama over and over again. I just pictured going up and down on the roller coaster for the rest of my life. I'm actually still with Abf but more because he's been on good behaviour for a while now. If things go back to the way they were I'm out. For me, as scary as being alone would be, ( I wouldn't be really, I have very supportive family and friends,) living like that with him is even scarier. I'd find someone else when I'm ready. I bet you would too.
I hope you can get past your fear of starting over. Maybe it would help to look at what you have right now and ask yourself it it's really what you want to have forever. I'm about the same age, and that's what finally got me. I wanted the same things, but I found it wasn't worth it to put up with the drama over and over again. I just pictured going up and down on the roller coaster for the rest of my life. I'm actually still with Abf but more because he's been on good behaviour for a while now. If things go back to the way they were I'm out. For me, as scary as being alone would be, ( I wouldn't be really, I have very supportive family and friends,) living like that with him is even scarier. I'd find someone else when I'm ready. I bet you would too.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Where the sun always shines!
Posts: 1,625
In sickness and in health - totally agree. But does that mean to live with disrepect, and blame, and guilt, and manipulation, and lies.......
But it's also written - thou shalt not lie.
But it's also written - thou shalt not lie.
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
Posts: 3,410
Texasgirl,
For me, it is as Aquiana said. If you believe that addiction is a disease, and that there is help out there and you choose not to seek it, then why should you expect your spouse to stand by you? You don't have to martyr yourself to his choice not to seek treatment.
Hon, I am 31 and split up with my A fiancé in December. We were planning our wedding and talked about starting a family. I want that. But not in those conditions. I would rather be childless than bring up kids with an active A. My new life starts a week tomorrow and I can't wait.
Take care
Love
Minnie
xxx
For me, it is as Aquiana said. If you believe that addiction is a disease, and that there is help out there and you choose not to seek it, then why should you expect your spouse to stand by you? You don't have to martyr yourself to his choice not to seek treatment.
Hon, I am 31 and split up with my A fiancé in December. We were planning our wedding and talked about starting a family. I want that. But not in those conditions. I would rather be childless than bring up kids with an active A. My new life starts a week tomorrow and I can't wait.
Take care
Love
Minnie
xxx
Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NOT in love thank goodness
Posts: 115
I'm 44 and divorced now for a few years. I married at 24. I married for the same reason you mentioned. I had dated losers up until that point. This was the first "normal" guy I had dated. What if he was the only "normal" guy that wanted to marry me. So I said OKAY. I didn't say YES, of course I'll marry you. I thought I loved him madly don't get me wrong. I was married for a very long time and was very very miserable. I ended up having a heart attack a while back. I'm young, relatively healthy. The stress of my life caught up with me. I'm now depressed, fighting for my health, and regretting marrying cause I was afraid that was the best I could do. Get my point??
And honestly, I don't think really think MS is the same as alcoholism. But dating someone taht gets diagnosed with a life-threatening/changing disease would cause a person to really take stock. Are they sure they could handle it. It would be a different committment that what you thought you were getting into in the first place. It shouldn't make a difference. And I certainly wouldn't abandon a spouse diagnosed with a disease. But while you are dating....looking at alcoholism, being educated about this disease and being cautious about what you are getting into would be smart. Move slowly with the relationship. Personally, people said it to me before and I didn't follow it either....I would run. I moved in with my ex-ABF and then we split a year later. It was a very rough year.
And honestly, I don't think really think MS is the same as alcoholism. But dating someone taht gets diagnosed with a life-threatening/changing disease would cause a person to really take stock. Are they sure they could handle it. It would be a different committment that what you thought you were getting into in the first place. It shouldn't make a difference. And I certainly wouldn't abandon a spouse diagnosed with a disease. But while you are dating....looking at alcoholism, being educated about this disease and being cautious about what you are getting into would be smart. Move slowly with the relationship. Personally, people said it to me before and I didn't follow it either....I would run. I moved in with my ex-ABF and then we split a year later. It was a very rough year.
Wipe your paws elsewhere!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,672
I agree with WalkingtheLine (WTL). You will have NO trouble finding a new partner when you're ready. I'll be 45 in about a week, so I'm no longer a spring chicken. And I'm no longer a stunner, either. I'm short, overweight, my hair is greying, I've got a few wrinkles, and gravity hasn't been my friend either. Yet I have no trouble attracting men. Never have, never will. I guess it's just my fabulous, winning personality that knocks them over (just kidding!).
Why, just this week I was mentioning to coworkers that I had asked my AB to move out and two gentlemen said, "well, if you're looking for a new partner, I'd like to apply for the job!" Well, I'm definitely not ready for a new relationship, and probably won't be for a long time, but it's good to know that I have plenty of "suitors" when the time comes.
So please don't worry that you won't find another partner. There are plenty of fish in the sea. You'll when and if the time comes to leave. You have your entire life ahead of you. You don't have to make a difficult decision like this quickly. In fact, I believe it's best to really think through a decision like this to make sure you make the right choice, and Alanon meetings would be the perfect place to start.
Why, just this week I was mentioning to coworkers that I had asked my AB to move out and two gentlemen said, "well, if you're looking for a new partner, I'd like to apply for the job!" Well, I'm definitely not ready for a new relationship, and probably won't be for a long time, but it's good to know that I have plenty of "suitors" when the time comes.
So please don't worry that you won't find another partner. There are plenty of fish in the sea. You'll when and if the time comes to leave. You have your entire life ahead of you. You don't have to make a difficult decision like this quickly. In fact, I believe it's best to really think through a decision like this to make sure you make the right choice, and Alanon meetings would be the perfect place to start.
Don't get undies in a bunch
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Shore MA
Posts: 7,120
What a good parrallel MS and addictions.
People who have MS can go through mood changes. Some have become nasty. Same as you can find with a happy drunk or a nasty drunk.
The what if... well if they tried to run you over 4 times with a wheelchair, you would learn to get out of the way. Not allow yourself to get set up in a position you can get run over by them...
Al Anon helps us learn to detatch, stay out of the way, not put ourselves in a position where we could get run over. Helps us learn to live life... even if we remain with an alcoholic.
TXgirl
I like the way you are thinking things out. What ever your choice, it will be a informed choice.
People who have MS can go through mood changes. Some have become nasty. Same as you can find with a happy drunk or a nasty drunk.
The what if... well if they tried to run you over 4 times with a wheelchair, you would learn to get out of the way. Not allow yourself to get set up in a position you can get run over by them...
Al Anon helps us learn to detatch, stay out of the way, not put ourselves in a position where we could get run over. Helps us learn to live life... even if we remain with an alcoholic.
TXgirl
I like the way you are thinking things out. What ever your choice, it will be a informed choice.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: over the rainbow
Posts: 487
if you love him and you want to stay then stay. if you are not sure , and you are in no physical danger give the recovery program a chance to work in your life, because should you leave without any recovery you may end up with another one just like him. there are lots of posts here about being codependent. that would be a real eye opener into looking at how you may be contributing to his addictions. good luck.
Dancing To My Own Beat
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: I don't know what kind of state I'm in
Posts: 1,326
People can share their experience, but no one can tell you what you should do in your own situation. Recovery has helped me to make better decisions based on the experience of others, and learning to live in a better, more positive way.
I am 37, no kids, and been married for 16 years. Haven't left. Just for today I want to stay. That doesn't mean things may change down the road. No decision is carved in stone. The decisions I made to seek recovery, improve my own life, and go in a positive direction have changed my outlook on my situation. They didn't neccessarily change the situation itself. For me, leaving at the point that I first entered Al-Anon would have been running away from things. Today I know that as long as I am working on myself, my decisions aren't based on running away. They are based on living the best possible life I can. Hugs, Magic
I am 37, no kids, and been married for 16 years. Haven't left. Just for today I want to stay. That doesn't mean things may change down the road. No decision is carved in stone. The decisions I made to seek recovery, improve my own life, and go in a positive direction have changed my outlook on my situation. They didn't neccessarily change the situation itself. For me, leaving at the point that I first entered Al-Anon would have been running away from things. Today I know that as long as I am working on myself, my decisions aren't based on running away. They are based on living the best possible life I can. Hugs, Magic
Queen of one liners
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: walking beside you! Not in front of you.
Posts: 658
Txgirl,
I came into recovery from the affects of living with my alcoholic parents. My spouse didn't drink then, that came later. I am so very grateful that I had several years of AL-anon behind me before that happened. So when my sponsor told me I was allowed only one major decision a year and I had already made 2 and it was only June. I listened. I am married One Day At A Time just like I try to live my entire life today.
If you are not in danger, Why not take this time to get to really know you, where you want to go with your life, and then decide what you need to do. I believe Alcoholism to be a family disease. It certainly affected everyone in my family, yet I am the only one who didn't drink.
I also found out in working the steps that every boy I liked or man I dated was sooner or later to become a heavy drinker. Call me a magnet, or a collector of drinkers and I'll own it. I would rather take the time to find out what draws me to a certain kind of person now so If I can not live with them I'll not make the same choice again.
I hope you'll try some meetings of Al-Anon before you make that choice. I know I will always be grateful I choose to get well with or without a man in my life. You are enough all by yourself.
Love and prayers from one who cares
I came into recovery from the affects of living with my alcoholic parents. My spouse didn't drink then, that came later. I am so very grateful that I had several years of AL-anon behind me before that happened. So when my sponsor told me I was allowed only one major decision a year and I had already made 2 and it was only June. I listened. I am married One Day At A Time just like I try to live my entire life today.
If you are not in danger, Why not take this time to get to really know you, where you want to go with your life, and then decide what you need to do. I believe Alcoholism to be a family disease. It certainly affected everyone in my family, yet I am the only one who didn't drink.
I also found out in working the steps that every boy I liked or man I dated was sooner or later to become a heavy drinker. Call me a magnet, or a collector of drinkers and I'll own it. I would rather take the time to find out what draws me to a certain kind of person now so If I can not live with them I'll not make the same choice again.
I hope you'll try some meetings of Al-Anon before you make that choice. I know I will always be grateful I choose to get well with or without a man in my life. You are enough all by yourself.
Love and prayers from one who cares
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