harleygirl92156

I Figured Out Why Aa Works So Well. An Alcoholic Is A Selfish Bastard, You Take That Selfish Bastard And Give Him A Program That Says He Has To Be Selfish, He Should Be Selfish, He Must Be Selfish And He Grabs It And Runs.

What Do You End Up With? A Sober Selfish Bastard!

wraybear

Harleygirl, sorry you are feeling this pain right now. My AH has been involved in AA for 8 years. The first year was difficult as he was going to meetings, as many as 10 a week. I felt like a single mother most of the time. But, his sobriety had to be #1 or nothing else in his life would work well.

As a "bonus" - part of his recovery and the several different AA groups he attended, spent a lot of time promoting making amends to family and others who were affected by his drinking. And, then he tries to do that continuously, when he makes a mistake, says something out of line, acts selfish, he usually apoligizes almost immediately... this is nice. He has and still is learning coping skills and how to be honest with himself and me as that was something that was really lacking in his life was coping skills. The way he coped, was to drink and to lie. I hope you and your A can get to this place.

I hope this is just a temporary feeling for you and that you are able to find peace soon. I know addiction can drive us to near insanity - i was definitely feeling insane for many years and still do occassionaly.

Anyway, I really am sorry to hear you are feeling this way. Again, maybe it is temporary and you will have a brighter tomorrow!

Hope you can find some peace SOON!

Gabe

HG,
You sound very angry right now.
I'm sure you have your reasons for that.
Addicts are indeed very selfish when they are using.
And believe it or not, a lot of those behaviors come from their lack of self love.
I mean think about it.
Would a person who truly loves and cares about themselves, drown in a sea of drugs and alcohol on a regular basis?
So then, by some grace of God, they find recovery.
Yep, that is a self absorbed process too.
In a sentence...If they don't put their sobriety first, they don't stay sober.
That doesn't mean that their recovery process excludes the loved ones in their lives.
There is a balance to everything.
Some people find it, some people are still looking.

gelfling

The reason for being such a selfish bastard....in order for him to gain sobriety, he needs to focus on himself and his disease. He can't do it for you, his mom or anyone else.

This is something we all went through and resented like hell. I often wished he still drank because in the early stages; I saw less of him then when he was drinking.

Dear Harley...please find meetings that you can relate too. This is a bitch of a time in your life. There's no doubt about that.

I didn't do the meetings and walked around for years and I mean over 15 years with resentment, grudges and hate. It's not worth it. I lost those years and will never get them back. And it was my fault. No one elses. Because I was angry and wanted everyone to know it. He was a drunk...yeah years ago, but my pain was still as fresh as the days prior to his rehab. I screwed myself. Royally. That's why I try and encourage spouses to get help. From alanon, counselling, therapy, religion, prayer, God... Any and all of the above.

We're here for you. You won't have to go through this alone. Too many of us here know your pain.

Blessings and Grace for you Harley

FormerDoormat

Hi HaleyGirl:

I'm sorry you're feeling so angry right now, I can certainly understand that. I think we all have felt short-changed by the alcoholics in our lives and that we certainly don't deserve to be treated that way.

I look at my A's recovery and the AA program in a different light. Your A is suffering from a terrible illness--one that may well be terminal if he doesn't get help. That's really no different from a person suffering from cancer. Most cancer patients I know become completely self-absorbed with their illness, and recovery is the number one priority in their life. I know if I were diagnosed with cancer, I would focus all my attention on getting the help I need to survive because I'm just not ready to call it quits yet.

So I view the AA program as more a program of self-preservation than a program of self-absorption. Perhaps if you can view the AA program in this light, then you may one day understand that in order for an A to beat this disease, then the AA program HAS to be the number one priority in their life.

dax

Harley girl. . I agree with you. Very well said. Saying alcoholism is like a disease just gives the alcoholic an excuse to do anything he pleases in the program and call it" working his program." HIS family is last on his list- HIS program family is first. especially all those women 'needing to talk.". Just my opinion after 26 years in and around the program. hugs dax

Time2Surrender

I have read the Big Book of AA several times.Somehow I kept missing the part that says I have to,should be,and must be selfish.I guess I will read it again.Im sorry to hear about what you are going through with your husband.And I realize you are angry.But,when you come into a recovery forum and start bashing AA based on the actions of your husband you will get some feedback.You are putting down a program I happen to believe in and really love.Not to mention you just called me a selfish bastard. :shysmile:

JessicaNAJ

Well said Time2Surrender!!!

Aa_vark

Hey T2 - i missed that part too - this link is great - i entered in selfishness in the search and found a list of every reference to the word in the big book - can i share the link with you all?

http://www.healingresource.org/book.cgi?Display_Welcome

HG, i am sincerely sorry for your suffering

Aaron

gratefulgal

Wow, there are some really strong viewpoints here! It sounds like you have some resentments. By being "in and around the program" for 26 years, have you worked the steps with a sponsor? If not, I would suggest trying that as a way to let go of some of that anger.

Time2Surrender

Aaron,thanks for sharing "The Big Book Search Engine" thats pretty cool,and also a handy little tool to have.I saved that one in my favorites.I wonder if NA has one too? I guess I will have to do some more searching now.

dax

gratfulgal- I am sorry but there is no way I would go back to alanon and get a sponsor-who is really a person with NO REAl DEGREE in counseling. I do go to a counselor when I can afford to- but MR long time sober also ran up a $60,000 credit card debt on himself and other woman I guess. I can NOT STAND the way alanoners and AA people put down"normal people." It is a familiar theme in the meetings we attended as a couple. The more meetings I went to , the more disullioned I became. Alanon is great for those with drinking spouses.
My feeling on the 12 steps is they do NOT improve a person's character or life style. They do help a person stay sober and an alanoers learn to ture out the drinker. They incourage a fellowship that shuts out 'normal' family members.
AA is the perfect place to have an affair. Lots of divorced people. No one will tell on you since everyone is self absorbed in himself and his home group. The spouse will not suspect- she has let go with love and is sure her husband is just going to all those meeting to get sober. There are no repercussions[such as job loss in an office affair} Some in the program think it is wonderful whren two program people pair up. " they hav e so much more in common than the spouse.'
The good part is. If your spouse was unselfish before becoming addicted, his old unselfish self may shine thru. I just think people think the 12 steps will make you a better person. I think it makes that person happier with himself but not necessarily a better person to live with. This is just my experience and opinion. God bless those who have had a better experience. I am glad it has worked for you. dax

Dan

Hi dax.
Me again.
You know the word I'm going to say right?
Generalization.

And this...
Funny thing.
Ask just about anyone with even only a cursory knowledge of the AA program, and they are likely to tell you that it is indeed a program for life.
Your husband chose to have an affair. It happened with another AA member.
In my opinion, Alcoholics Anonymous might have saved your husband's life.
How he chose to live it was his decision.

My apologies to Harleygirl for playing a part in derailing her thread.

Magichappens

Hi Harleygirl,
Yes, alcoholism made Mr Magic a selfish bastard. It made me an angry, bitter, controlling bitch. Two wrongs don't make a right. I wasn't any easier to live with than him. Since there was nothing I could do about his problem, I started looking at mine. There is no solution in blame. If I stay there, I'm stuck. There is a solution at finding a way to help myself. Hugs, Magic

Patsyd1

You know the word that I am going to use correct? Bullsh*t.

Dax, I would suggest that if you are miserable in your marriage, and from all the posts that I read from you, you are completely and utterly miserable.

What are you going to do about it Dax, because the only one who can is YOU!

God it must be horrible to be in that much turmoil, and for 26 longgg suffering years too. WOW.

I wonder Dax, in playing the martyr, what painful pleasure are you getting out of it? I mean after 26 yrs of staying in what you describe as complete and utter misery, at what point do you take responsibility for you, your thinking, your words, your actions, your deeds and what you choose to do or not do with them? Because after 26 yrs in complete misery Dax, there is a point when you are no longer a victim, and are simply choosing to be... a volunteer.

Volunteering to be a victim is a choice, and the only one who can do anything about that choice....... is YOU.

dax

Dan - AA did indeed save my husband's life and for 12 years, he was an good honest man. Even though he was gone a lot , our children had a stable happy home. Till he gave other woman our second phone number which was for the children. My son heard ow's on message and knew for years before I did about affair. For my son's suffering I am very angry. Mr program perfect would never even apologize to him- didn't think it did any harm. That my husband still has so much denial , is incredible to me. That is why I do not think the 12 steps help make a better person. Do help make a sober one.

Magichappens

I know that someone attacking AA and Al-Anon at every chance makes people angry, but it isn't fair to hijack a thread because of our own emotions. Think about it, and start another thread if you need to express something to or about dax. Please respect that there is a newcomer here that needs our help. Hugs, Magic

Dan

Indeed Magic.
I've already apologized in my post, and gladly do so again.

dax

Ah good old also angry Patsy. I chose to post here my story so it might help just one alanoner be aware that the 12 steps are NOT the perfect program you profess it to be. And you have missed my posts. I have only been mad since affair discovery 6 years ago. Up till then I thought we had a great marriage. We went to lots of chapter 9 meetings after I found out. I was more and more troubled by the way program people put down normal people. And by all the lying and deceit that the recovered alcoholic continues to bestow on family members. Yes I use this board to vent and then I can go have a great day. It would be dumb to divorce a man who is finally getting it. Since he has modified his meeting schedule, he now shares with me. dax

skippy1977

When my husband finally really started practicing the AA program 13 years ago he was a selfish fellow. He was willing to do what ever it took for him to stay sober and he did just that. It wasn't must different from when he was drinking he was still gone all the time with his friends and he was really not there for me. But, I had already decided that what ever it took for him to be sober was what I wanted. Even if that meant there was not place in his life for me. At least I knew he was going to live a longer life and I wasn't going to have to bury him before he was an old man. You see I still loved him with all my heart. The frist couple of years were really hard but slowly we started putting our marriage back together. But first he had to start putting himself back together and I had to find out who I was and put me back together. We are still in some ways both selfish in our programs. I have things that I won't do and he has thiings he won't do. But, in our marriage if we both give just a little we can seem to come to a middle road that we both can live with. I know we so want to come frist in their lives and have them see how much we gave for them. In my marriage I never got an I'm sorry with words but in the way he's living his life now. And that is so much more important to me. God willing we are going to grow old together. Skippy