harleygirl92156

Does anyone else have the feeling AA promotes half truths and deception? I have been involved with AA and Al anon for just three short months. My husband went through treatment in december and goes to meetings every evening and when there is Al anon I go too. I hear the people in Al anon talk about their partner who is in the next room and say how good they are doing or say they have come clean and admitted all their wrongs and say they aren't drinking. I KNOW this is not the truth as I have seen it with my own eyes, the person drinking just 4 days prior. Do I say what I know or leave the person clueless and let them find out for themselves? I would want someone to tell me if I was being made a fool of, but don't want to be the one to burst their bubble, it is a difficult situation.

Then after the meeting I overheard the alcoholic tell their sponsor not to tell the partner that they had drank just four days earlier because they didn't know. The sponsor agreed.

I am concerned because this is the AA click my husband has fallen into and I don't think it is healthy. We have problems with lying, but then what alcoholic doesn't lie?? I don't like the secretiveness and deception that seems to be promoted, the same thing was promoted when he was in treatment and it has nearly ruined our marriage. We are struggleing back for day, but I am just not sure AA promotes honesty.

It appears to me they are deceptive and promote keeping secrets and protecting ones self from telling the truth, or teach them to tell the truth in a way that it is still deceptive......half truths, answers such as "I can't tell you that" indicating they don't know when in fact they do but just refuse to answer, secrets from partners.

Does anyone else feel this way or is it just me?

minnie

harleygirl,

I am sorry to hear that you have had this experience. It must be really uncomfortable for you. I don't know what I would do in that situation.

I think that AA DOES promote honesty, however, that is not to say that all AA MEMBERS are promoting honesty. It is up to the individual to be honest with their partner. I don't think that this sponsor was promoting the idea of the deception, rather they were agreeing not to pass on information that they had. If an AA or Al-anon member were to take information that was shared in confidence and use it outside of the rooms, that would be a gross breach of trust.

I understand why you feel like this.

Love

Minnie
xxx

bluester

harleygirl92156,don't know what to think! I haven't been to a AlAnon meeting yet. Been deciding if I wanted to chance it and attend a local meeting. Won't have to worry about my AH attending a AA meeting..he won't even admit he has a problem.
See you are located in Iowa. Have you attended other AlAnon meetings at other locations? They all can't be the same.
Tough problem,that the experts can answer.
Sad it had to happen to you. I would be pretty much the same way as you. Makes me wonder if attending will be worth it.

Magichappens

Anonymity and confidentiallity are essential in meetings. This tool is also used in professional therapy. It gives the person a safe place to work through distorted thinking and find options that they otherwise might not have had. Basically, there are no tattletales in 12 step programs. Sorry this doesn't sit well with you, but many sick people don't know what is true and what is fantasy or distortion until they work through it.

Acting on distorted thinking is a lot of what causes problems in peoples lives in the first place. Giving recovery time to change attitudes and outlooks allows people to come to know their own truth and reveal those when they are ready. When the tools of the program are used properly, such as sponsorship, literature, and fellowship, the change can be profound and cause lasting recovery. There is no garantee that an individual will practice the principles offered by 12 step recovery. It is an individual decision.

There are many who distrust this process of recovery. There are many who go to meetings and don't apply the program to their life, then claim that AA or Al-Anon has failed them. But there are many who have found personal serenity, happiness, and freedom from their individual application of these principles. Those were the people I sought out to teach me. It has worked for me. My life is a living testament to 12 step recovery.

Contempt prior to investigation will keep us in ignorance. Giving the process a chance, being willing to try the suggestions is the only way someone will find out for themself if it works. Hugs, Magic

gelfling

You don't need to worry about the other person. Just yourself while at an alanon meeting. Sure, a lot of this stuff goes on. The approach I take is that I'm at a meeting to help myself and I will give credit to the alcoholic next door who is possibly "again" making an attempt to gain sobriety. It's not for us to fill them in on what's really going on. I wouldn't want to know. Especially if I was healing. I'm getting stronger and healthier. I wouldn't want anyone to tell me that my husband is still drinking. And in the process, I learn that I can get through this without him. The issue of honesty is with the alcoholic. It is up to him to be honest with himself first. No one else matters.

Try and find other meetings. There's lots out there.

Take care and blessings.

dax

You are right on the money.. Program people will rarely say anything to a spouse if unacceptable behavior is going on. The concept of anonymity gives a recovering alcoholic free rein to do what ever thay want, Their are no rules in the program. They turn their heads when they see unacceptable behavoir -because it is the easy thing to do. It is almost cult like in the way they cover for each other. My husband had a long time affair with a woman in AA. EVERYONE knew they were best frinds. Many did not know they were in a sexual relationship for a couple of year early on. Still they though it was great they were best friends. And those closess did know an affair was going on. He was help in high regard for his"God loves me and does me good" concept. What a bunch of BS! Too bad for the wife at home. AA is a huge dating game. Go to the meetings and see how flirty and dressed up most of the women are.
I have lost faith in the alanon program. I went on and off for 24 years.I think it is great for helping those with actively drinking spouses. However when they get sober,alanon paints an UNTRUE rosey picture of AA,. Nothing was ever said to me that hey your husband shouldn't be sharing-and yes he also drove those'helpless AA women " around. And that AA woman would never apologize- it took a PI to get her to stop calling my husband's voice mail{I had the password} and to stay away. dax

dax

Gelfling- That is putting your head in the sand and allowing unacceptable behav ior to go on. It is seen by those outside the program as 'covering for each other". My opinion only. dax

minnie

Surely, the aim of al-anon is about us having a happy life "whether the alcoholic is drinking or not". So what does it matter if we are not told about their drinking? We can't do anything about it, and if they are drinking, we always know sooner rather than later. Then we can make a decision on whether we can live with that.

And dax, it's not about whether AA covers up for unacceptable behaviour. YOU accepted what you say is unacceptable behaviour by staying after you found out about the affair.

Magichappens

Any situation can be abused. People have affairs at their jobs, in church, and anywhere else men and women associate. If someone is looking for immoral behavior they can find it in most any place they look. Trashing 12 step recovery because there are immoral people there is telling someone they can't get help anywhere, because nowhere is perfect. I agree that no solution is perfect, and the sick people can do sick things. But when I needed help, and sought out people who were healthy, that's where they were. Right there in the same meetings as the sickos. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. There is good in Al-Anon and AA if that is what someone is seeking.

Dan

I'm a member of AA.
And I simply want to express my gratitude for the program.
And my wish that all those who love an alcoholic and suffer the insidious disease along with them find peace and understanding of their own situation.
And in my very, very humble opinion, that will be a hard thing to achieve by trying to qualify what AA is or isn't.

Chy

Minnie and Magic said it for me as well. As an AA member it is an honest program, and if the members are working an honest program with their sponsor all the yucky stuff, truths, and untruths will be dealt with as they continue to work the steps.

Best advise is to concentrate on you work through these issues with your sponsor, and let the others work with their sponsors in handling their own relationships.

Chuckles101301

When I go to my al-anon meetings I am greatful for having a place to share what is going on with me. The focus in an al-anon meeting should be the person living with the alcoholic, not the alcoholic.

Rarely do two people have the same vision about what unacceptable behavior is and a sponsors job is to be there for the A, not for the spouse. Confidentiality is so very important. What was witnessed by you may have only been the tip of the iceberg. Maybe his sponsor chose to bring up the slip with his sponsee later when they could discuss things more privately. Who knows. AA is not filled with saints, only people that are trying to stay sober one more day and help others to stay sober one more day. That's all.

When my AH came out of treatment, I wanted to blame "them" for the breakdown in our marriage. It wasn't "them", it was us. We led to the breakdown in our marriage. We had the disease of alcoholism in our home and we bowed down to it. My AH had really been through a traumatic recovery and I don't blame him for not wanting to discuss every little thing that he talked about and every past indiscretion of his....uggghhh...that doesn't sound fun to me...dwelling on the bad makes it hard to let the good in. He is 5 months sober now and we struggle with communication problems, but that is not a result of his treatment or AA, it is a result of the disease. I can't imagine where we would be without a 12 step program. I am thankful that my AH has someone to call when we argue, rather than going to the local liquor store. Does he keep secrets from me? I would say flatly...no....he just doesn't feel the need to tell me about everything in his head, especially before he has time to process it. Has he ever cheated on me? No. Has he ever lied to me? Yes, but I don't need his sponsor or anyone else to tell me. Has he drank in the last 5 months? No, not that I know of, but it really isn't my concern. It is HIS behavior. I am keeping my side of the street clean by being honest and open with him and so far he is doing the same. If HIS behavior at some point in time becomes intolerable to me, then I will find my way out of this relationship. If he crosses the boundaries that I have set, then I will find my way out of this relationship because I am not responsible for his behavior, I only have to choose how I will deal with it on my end. AA is not cult like because people turn their heads to other people's behavior...they are really working the program...focusing on themselves and the behavior they can change. I say to the still suffering or newly sober alcoholic, turn your head and ignore what is going on around you...focus on yourself and your behavior, that is what the steps say. There are no AA police or the program wouldn't work. AA people are not there to judge. You have to be honest with yourself and yourself only and you can't be honest when your spouse is listening at the door.

My AH made lots of mistakes and he will make many more, and I hope he feels comfortable by anonymity and discusses these mistakes honestly without judgement from other members. I also hope that other members don't tattle on him because I want him to get better for him, in spite of or with me whichever way gets him healthy because I love him and want that for him.

When I was looking for al-anon meetings, I asked my AH if he would be uncomfortable with me attending meetings at the same time and in the same building as him. Before his treatment, he didn't want me anywhere near him, but after he could care less. I don't care what he says about me in meetings, if he says anything at all. He doesn't care what I say about him in meetings, if anything at all....we take what we need and we leave the rest behind. It is about each of us getting better in our own way. I have decided that what is best for me when it comes to other members of my al-anon group is to mind my business. I wouldn't be here (in al-anon) if I had all the answers. I wouldn't be sick if I had it all figured out. I offer my support to the people in my group but I don't delude myself into thinking that I can live their lives better or figure out their problems. I work on figuring out my own. I also would never approach one of their A's and tell them what was said in a meeting, I think that is more horrid than covering, lying, or keeping secrets. That would be bold and destructive. Keeping someone's confidence does not mean you are covering for them or turning a blind eye to unacceptable behavior, it is just keeping someone's confidence.

This rambling sums up in "mind your business". I would also suggest that you attend meetings elsewhere if you can't keep other people's stuff to yourself.

Chuckles101301

I also wanted to add to Dax:

Have you ever thought for a minute that the women in these meetings that you refer to have better things to do than steal your AH. Dressing up and being flirty does not equate to, "I want to bed your man". If they are using AA like a single's club, these women have huge issues because I certainly wouldn't go searching for an A to get involved with. You AH made a bad decision getting involved with a woman in AA, not all AA people would make this decision. I like to think that the women in my AH's group are just trying to feel better about themselves. After my daughter turned 1, I started to feel pretty yucky about my body and my appearance, so I went shopping, got my hair done and started to take better care of myself.....for me. It helped a lot what people commented on it and I flirted with a few guys just for fun. I would never cheat on my spouse, but I wanted to know that I was still an attractive woman despite being a new mother with a little extra cushion for the pushin'. I dressed better and I flirted....but no men jumped into my bed (except for my spouse). I guess the women in your AH's group have some kind of magical power to get a grown man, a grown married man, to jump into their bed without his consent. Cheaters cheat.

eggpal

Hmmm...just one very humble opinion here...but it seems to me that our focus in our al-anon meetings should be on ourselves, not our alcoholics. How are WE doing? I've just never heard anyone in my group talk about their alcoholic in this way. Maybe there is a better group out there for you.

Petunia

There are as many ways to live and grow, as there are people. Our own ways are the only ways that should matter to us.
--Evelyn Mandel

Letting other people grow, develop, live their own experiences as they must takes courage and acceptance of the knowledge that our responsibility in this life is to our own healthy development -- not to controlling someone else's.

It's not easy to let go of someone with whom we want to share a particular path in life; however, no two of us are destined for exactly the same lessons today or any day. We must each find our own way and develop those opportunities we meet that are certain to enhance the lessons our souls have been created for.

Our need to control someone else generally results from our own insecurities about life's meaning. Because we lack understanding of our own personal worth, we look for it in someone else's devotion to us -- a devotion that, in time, we squeeze the life from.

We cannot control another's behavior, and yet we try. And the more we try the greater the barriers between us become. Trust is all we finally have that each of us is progressing, according to our own pace, in rightful company. We cannot force what is not meant to be.

My own pace and direction are all that I need to be concerned with today.

From The Promise of a New Day by Karen Casey & Martha Vanceburg

equus

As loaded as it might sound, this is a genuine question:

Harleygirl, Did you want the organisation to report back to you about your husband's behaviour?

I'm asking this because I think that would be unhealthy for both of you. I worry deeply that my hubby has few confidential friends other than me and his Mum. As much as he supports me being in contact with his Mum, I'm painfully aware this has removed something from him.

I would be more horrified if a post contained news that AA did report back to partners - people sometimes need privacy to heal.

harleygirl92156

I don't expect anyone to report back to me about what my husband discusses in meeting, I think I was misunderstood.

I know things that are said in Al anon are not true and I feel I am being dishonest by not setting the record straight, but I don't because it isn't my inventory. It just bothers me. I know what is said to a sponsor is confident, but I also know that a good sponsor is suppose to guide his sponsoree to do what is right and agreeing to cover for their lying is not right in my book. That is what rubbed me the wrong way.

I have an issue of trust with my husband after six years of lying, drinking and cheating. I am working very hard to overcome it and give him a chance to show me he has changed because I think he has. I know I have to focus on me and that is what I am trying to do, it is just hard to over come all the deception when there seems to be so much around me with other A's. I know they are not my husband, but there seems to be a lot of half truths and deception that goes along with the program.
I agree, maybe I need to look for a different group as this group does seem to focus on the alcoholic instead of ourselves. OR maybe I should just speak up when the conversation heads that way and get it back to where it is suppose to be.
Regardless, I was just wondering if this was common everywhere or just for me and from what I read in the posts it appears I am involved with a Al anon group and AA group that may not be working the program the way it was intended and I should look elsewhere.

Magichappens

A healthy group that walks the walk as well as talks the talk is an invaluable tool. Even in a sick group, there are usually a few people who are working a program and getting results. Sticking with the winners is a good idea. A winner is someone who has used the program to become happy, joyous, and free. They focus on themself, and seem to be ok in their own skin. Try to find them where you are. They can help you figure all these questions out. They can help you make your own decisions about what you need, and what you need to leave alone. Hugs, Magic

dax

Minnie- Many people on this board live with spouses that carry on unacceptable behavior. That does not mean I or anyone who stay condones it. Gee your alanon thinking must have gotten off track here. You were smart and dumped your alcoholic boyfrined,. I have been married 40 years. We have had many good times as well as bad. The first 12 years of his sobrietry were great. He has tried to make amends- but really too little too late. He certainly knows I consider his behavior unacceptable. He has agreed to never speak to her again. He goes to only 3 meetings a week. He tell s me when he comes and goes. If he does not follow these rules , he is out of here. He had complete freedom for 24 years and he blew it. I have weighed my options, and right now the good out weighs the bad. You tried to be hurtful - I guess you are angry too. dax

dax

I don't think Harleygirl wants to hear a daily report on what her husband is doing. She is just appalled at all the dishonesty in a program that stresses honesty. The main goal of AA is to keep the alcoholic sober- the program does not give a horses butt about the family.. Alanon does not address this issue either. If both spouses work their own programs. they ususally drift along on parallel lines working in their own program family but drifting futher apart from each other. I have seen it happen many times. dax