What to do?

Old 02-21-2005, 02:04 PM
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What to do?

We were suppose to have a marriage counseling appt on Saturday, but he was too tired..... So I went for my individual session.

Okay so I got totally freaked out by what he told me. First he asked me what I want in a relationship with H, of course first thing was quit drinking and so on and so on. Well, what if he did all of this, what role would you play in the relationship since you would no longer be the caretaker? wow, I had never even thought of that, really what would I be if not a caretaker? I don't have any idea who I am so how could I give up my identity of caretaker?

Whenever I have shared my likes or dislikes or wanted to do something H makes me feel stupid. It's really hard to figure out who you are, when H is trying to keep you in the role he wants you to play.

I told counselor I need specific things I can do to not be a caretaker anymore, and he said we would talk about it next session. So of course I can't wait, and I knew you guys would have advice for me....

Mindi
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Old 02-21-2005, 02:23 PM
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Queen, I've been following your posts very closely ...

I completely relate to what you've just said about your role of caretaker. If not a caretaker, then WHAT? Who are you? Okay, here's my question to you (and let's leave AH out of this completely): When you were a child did any member of your family shame you or control you or make you feel stupid and/or inadequate?

My reason for asking is I found out through LOTS of therapy that I have a self but I cannot identify it! Thus, I glom onto addicts, abusers, nut-cases, married-men, women-haters ... you name it, I've been involved with it. As long as my focus is on the latest dysfunctional goof I'm involved with, I don't have to find me. My identity is manifested by my anger at the person I'm involved with (read that to mean I'm in victim-mode most of the time).

How did I get that way? My parents could not stand me and didn't want me. They needed me, but for all the wrong, sick reasons. I was the toxic waste dump they spilled their self-hatred and dislike for one another into. I was not allowed to be a child - I was a miniature adult! To this day, I'm still struggling to feel comfortable with the SELF I am - and if I really felt comfortable with WHO I AM I wouldn't be hanging around with an addict and finding I oftentimes need to defend mySELF and stand up for who I think I am.

Bottom line: I've wasted waaayyyy too much of my life trying to convince emotionally-unavailable addicts that I am lovable! Talk about a sick way to find myself!

Hang in there, Q. It's a blessing that AH isn't going to the counselor. Now you can begin the journey of finding out what a unique and wonderful person you are and discover all your talents that you have to give to people who will genuinely appreciate you!
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Old 02-21-2005, 02:41 PM
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I think sometimes we need to connect the dots between our past issues and our present ones in order to resolve things.
Past issue...I felt unloved as a child.
Present issue...I go to great, sometimes unhealthy lengths to convince people I am lovable.
The present is trying to make up for the past.
In reality, it's not other people we have to convince that we are lovable.
It is ourselves we have to convince.
I believe that everything good begins with self and moves outward.
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Old 02-21-2005, 02:46 PM
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Brilliant insight as usual, Gabe. I wish I had your talent to pack a lot of wisdom into a few well-thought words!
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Old 02-21-2005, 03:42 PM
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You know maybe my dad a little, but I did feel loved as a child, from what I remember.

It's like I don't know how to find me and know who I am. And it scares me to think I might not be anybody, besides a caretaker.
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Old 02-21-2005, 04:16 PM
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Sometimes, we define ourselves by our roles because it's easier to be "something" than "someone".
To be what we do instead of who we are.
Our roles are a part of who we are.
Mother, father, sister, brother, friend, employee.
But they aren't the whole of who we are.
I think we often lose touch with the best part of ourselves because we don't know how to be true to that part of us.
Therefore, we get lost in caring for others instead of caring for ourselves.
For me, a big part of recovery was finding my way back to the best part of myself.
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Old 02-21-2005, 04:33 PM
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Q, SOMETHING probably happened in your past...

... on the other hand, you know your past and I do not. I'm glad you felt loved and accepted as a child. But somewhere, that child, that feeling of self-acceptance, got lost. Perhaps you saw someone else in the role of caretaker and you admired that person for their ability to sacrifice. I'm only speculating.

Queen, you DO have a SELF - if you didn't you wouldn't be upset and angry that the expectations of what you had for marriage are not being met. Listen, I have a cousin who was diagnosed paranoid/schizophrenic. He does very well on his meds, but as far as expectations go? Well, he expects to have three square meals a day, he expects to take care of his brother's dogs when baby bro is away, but he expects little more from what I can tell - even when I see that glint in his eye that makes me remember the person he was before he became ill.

I look at my AH. Does he have a self? Oh, I suppose somewhere buried under almost 30 years of Johnny Walker Red. But he lost that self or else that self became too painful to face.

You're gonna be okay, Q. Keep fighting the good fight. I truly have faith that my H.P. brought me here almost a year ago for a reason. We're all in this together to support one another. Hey, we gotta have faith that there's light at the end of the tunnel that isn't a train, don't we????
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Old 02-21-2005, 04:38 PM
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My codependency is based on a fear of bad things happening to people I love. In my early childhood, bad things happened to people I loved, so I have spent much of my life as a caretaker, welcome or not, protecting everyone I love from harm.

I fit into caretaker roles so easily, I was the perfect daughter (and protector) to my mother, I was the perfect wife (and protector) to my husband, I was the perfect mother (and protector) to my son, and the perfect friend (and protector) to my closest friends). What I discovered is that these "roles" were all an illusion. I never had the power to protect any of them from life and what life handed them. And when life dealt them a bad hand, I felt personally responsible for not protecting them enough...another illusion.

When I finally, through recovery, stepped outside of these roles, I was able to get to know that stranger called "me". I discovered things about myself that I had never known, I found that stranger likeable after a while, and today that "stranger" is the better part of me, the part even I couldn't see.

Your counsellor can work through this with you. You can work on yourself by writing down your dreams, just dreams based on what you would like and not based on what anyone else would like for you. Find a small dream and plan a way to make it come true all by yourself. Get to know that better person who lives deep within yourself. I'll bet you like her when you get to know her.

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Old 02-21-2005, 05:11 PM
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Queen,

I think there is a lot of truth shared in this thread. I have been working on 'getting to know myself' for nine months now.

It is exciting.
And it is important.
And it is fun too.
So I want you to know I am happy to hear you are starting along this path of discovery.

I call it the 'All About Me' time, because it started here on the forum when Gabe told me to write a post that was all about me, what I liked and didn't like, since all I ever posted about was what my AH did or how my daughter felt. I never talked about me.

I was like you, I was so focused on being caretaker and feeling like a victim.

I have told people "It's All About Me" now, and I let them share in my small moments of triumph. I make jokes that I am in training to be selfish. LOL!
But those who know me well know exactly how bizarre that sounds, because I have never put myself first. So I say I am making up for lost time. :-)

As far as something in my childhood, I believe for me it goes back to being one of the kids not popular in school. I didn't join activities or sports, I got all A's so that bothered other kids... and also I believe I had a really serious social anxiety that made me feel an outcast even when it was mostly in my head. I always felt awkward, I was sometimes made fun of, and I eventually learned to latch onto one best friend. I never felt good enough, and would gladly play any game or go anywhere a friend wanted to just to have that friend.

As I grew into high school I became rather attractive so I replaced best friends with steady boyfriends. I tended to go with guys who needed me, or made me feel really special.

I found that worked best when I was so much smarter than they, or so much prettier than they ever deserved, you get the idea. So I could feel secure. But then I eventually would grow annoyed with the very things about them that made me too good for them, and I'd try to change them.

My AH was just another one of those. Since I was truly out of his league, he was genuinely lucky to have me and therefore I could feel secure.

Duh.

I know now that my two marriages didn't work because in both cases those situations ended the way we all know they do, I move from feeling like the rescuer... secure, needed and loved, into feeling used, taken for granted, and wondering why I don't deserve better than what I settled for.

So I am getting to know me so I can see these patterns in my behavior and try to change them. It seems only fair to the men out there that I stop me. LOL!!!!!
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Old 02-21-2005, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by queenofthehwy
I told counselor I need specific things I can do to not be a caretaker anymore, and he said we would talk about it next session. So of course I can't wait, and I knew you guys would have advice for me....
I basically grew up feeling unloved. Although I know my mom loves me, I always felt I had to do better and take care of things better. I felt I had to prove that I can take care of things myself. And prove I can be successful. I also felt, as a child, that I had to "fix" my mom - cheer her up and not act up because I might hurt her feelings. I had to make her happy.

I'm not really as good at words those before me, so I thought I would tell you some things I've done that I considered to be caretaking and how I realize now it could have been handled differently....

I was 16 when I met my AH. He was a sad case even back then. I used to sit in front of my AH and try to make him smile. I wanted so badly to be the one that made him happy. (Now I know I cannot make him happy, he has to do that himself.)

I always made sure I got what HE wanted from the drive thru or grocery store. If he said "I don't know" or "Whatever". I should have left it at that and gotten him whatever I wanted or nothing at all, but I kept asking until I got an answer

He rarely told me if he was out of cologne or deoderant so I'd check to see if he needed more. ( I should have left him stinking...lol)

I would call on my way home from somewhere, no matter how tired I was, to see if he needed anything. And if he did, I would stop and get it.

I didn't go out on the weekends (I didn't trust him to not drink while he was watching the kids) this only gave him more freedom to drink.

I would stay on top of his appointments and court dates and anything else that was HIS responsibility to take care of. (Not my place to do that.)

I work at the Jail, when he was arrested for his third DUI - I helped him get a 3 for 1 -not because I needed him at home, but because I knew how horrible it must have been for him in there.(like I really know how bad he thinks it is.)

I paid all the bills - even a credit card he took out after I told him I wasn't going to pay for it.

I gave him $40-$80 a week even though that money could have been used for grocery's (I got most of his check so I could pay our bills).

If his socks had holes in them, I would make sure I bought him some more - even though he didn't tell me he needed more.

All of this stuff I initially did because I wanted to. I wanted to help and let him know that I cared enough to help. But npw I realize I wasn't helping him at all. All I was doing was enabling him.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, unless he asks for it, don't do it.

Big hugs to you... I can't wait to hear about some examples your counselor gives you. I might learn more caretaking I've done or am still doing...lol
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