From Co-dependent to Alcoholic???

Old 02-07-2005, 04:33 PM
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From Co-dependent to Alcoholic???

I just finished reading a book on Co-Dependency and I have found that a lot of the things in this book that they list as co-dep traits are traits my exAB had in his relationship prior to our relationship. In the past relationship he was the sole financial supporter, his ex rarely worked and when she did it was just part time and she spend the money on herself, she never helped with the household bills, food, etc. He was responsible for maintaing a household for her and her 2 sons. In the short time that they were together (on and off for less than 2 years) he became very close to her children - their real father was not in the picture and the boys called him dad and gave him cards and presents referring to him as dad. He was much closer to her children than he was to his own. I think it was because they "needed" him more, in his opinion, because they were financially dependent on him and also they had no other male role model. When he was with his ex he did not go out with his friends or go to bars. As a matter of fact one of his good drinking buddies told me he didn't even know my ex was back in town until he was living here for close to a year (he had lived in another state for a number of years). From what my ex tells me he was not "allowed" to go out. He was not "allowed" to do much of anything because she wouldn't "let" him. He told me that during the time him and his ex were together she broke up with him several times and would kick him out, she would move on to another man and when that didn't work out she would go back to my ex. So I get the sense that he never really had any security in their relationship and he would do almost anything to keep her happy and keep her form leaving. Plus they got together after he and his 2nd wife divorced and he was living in another state with very few friends and no family so I think he sort of latched on to her and her family. I've met her because my ex and I worked together for a while, while they were together and I am close with his family and I know that she really didn't treat him very well. So for a long time I have just been convinced that she must have been the "love of his life" and he will never get over her. I actually still believe that he will never get over her but not necessarily because she is the love of his life but because he is co-dependent and she "needs" him. Does that sound totally crazy????
When my exAB and I got together I think he thought that I would "need" him because I was going through a divorce myself. I have never been the type of person to rely on someone else to take care of me. I have a good job, I am financially secure, I have very supportive family and friends so I didn't really "need" him. A long time ago he and I had a discussion on his relationship with her and he admitted that part of the attraction was that she needed him. I asked him if he would rather be with someone because they "need" him or because they want to be with him. Of course he said the latter - but then again who wouldn't say that. I know I am not responsible for his drinking but I wonder if that fact that I could take care of myself allowed him the "freedom" to be irresponsible and drink and use drugs, etc.
Can anybody give me an opinion on this??? I don't know why it bothers me. We are done and I can never go back to that life again nor do I have any desire to go back there. Someday, way down the road, maybe we will be friends again. I know my ex's mother is trying to get my ex and his other ex back together. I don't know that this would be a healthy relationship for either. Maybe if she does come back he would stop drinking and clean up his act - which would be good for him - but he was miserable when they were together before because the relationship was all about her so that part would not be good. I guess it's really none of my business anyway and I guess I am just curious to see what someone else thinks. I love to hear other opinions. Thanks.
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Old 02-08-2005, 04:56 AM
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There are some who see co-dependency underlying any addict's core issues. If you define it solely in the older and more narrow way -- needing to take care of others, enabling others' addictions, putting your own needs last -- then it doesn't seem to apply.

But if you look at co-dependency as a need to rely on external sources, which includes the approval of others as well as substances, to feed a low self-esteem and value, then it does start to apply much more broadly.

I've become inclined to see it as the latter. I've known several addicts who are hyper sensitive, very reactive to, and extremely dependent on others' views of them and need to feel validated constantly by others.

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Old 02-09-2005, 02:43 AM
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Thanks Getting Free for your reply.
Can anyone else give me an opinion on this???
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Old 02-09-2005, 04:08 AM
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I believe co-dependency is the underlying condition in all addiction....our society in general wears a veil that keeps from seeing what is really there.

In the United States we have an alcoholic President who is draining our ecconomy to satisfy his need to go to war so he can please his dad to me that is co-dependent as hell....
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Old 02-09-2005, 04:26 AM
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Originally Posted by splendra
I believe co-dependency is the underlying condition in all addiction....our society in general wears a veil that keeps from seeing what is really there.

In the United States we have an alcoholic President who is draining our ecconomy to satisfy his need to go to war so he can please his dad to me that is co-dependent as hell....
Splendra,I hadn't thought of of President as being so co-dependent,but makes sense. Found an article in newspaper called...Addiction, Brain Damage and the President.

http://www.counterpunch.org/wormer1011.html

"Dry Drunk" Syndrome and
George W. Bush
by KATHERINE van WORMER

Ordinarily I would not use this term. But when I came across the article "Dry Drunk" - - Is Bush Making a Cry for Help? in American Politics Journal by Alan Bisbort, I was ready to concede, in the case of George W. Bush, the phrase may be quite apt.

Dry drunk is a slang term used by members and supporters of Alcoholics Anonymous and substance abuse counselors to describe the recovering alcoholic who is no longer drinking, one who is dry, but whose thinking is clouded. Such an individual is said to be dry but not truly sober. Such an individual tends to go to extremes.

It was when I started noticing the extreme language that colored President Bush's speeches that I began to wonder. First there were the terms-- "crusade" and "infinite justice" that were later withdrawn. Next came "evil doers," "axis of evil," and "regime change", terms that have almost become clichés in the mass media. Something about the polarized thinking and the obsessive repetition reminded me of many of the recovering alcoholics/addicts I had treated. (A point worth noting is that because of the connection between addiction and "stinking thinking," relapse prevention usually consists of work in the cognitive area). Having worked with recovering alcoholics for years, I flinched at the single-mindedness and ego- and ethnocentricity in the President's speeches. (My husband likened his phraseology to the gardener character played by Peter Sellers in the movie, Being There). Since words are the tools, the representations, of thought, I wondered what Bush's choice of words said about where he was coming from. Or where we would be going.

First, in this essay, we will look at the characteristics of the so-called "dry drunk;" then we will see if they apply to this individual, our president; and then we will review his drinking history for the record. What is the dry drunk syndrome? "Dry drunk" traits consist of:

Exaggerated self-importance and pomposity
Grandiose behavior
A rigid, judgmental outlook
Impatience
Childish behavior
Irresponsible behavior
Irrational rationalization
Projection
Overreaction
Clearly, George W. Bush has all these traits except exaggerated self importance. He may be pompous, especially with regard to international dealings, but his actual importance hardly can be exaggerated. His power, in fact, is such that if he collapses into paranoia, a large part of the world will collapse with him.
If you want to read more of article you can go to the website. Its a very long news article.
But think it goes hand-in-hand with what you are saying.
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Old 02-09-2005, 06:54 PM
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My home fellowship is CoDA (Codependents Anonymous) and about half of the members there were also members of AA or NA. Some were dealing with issues of their partner's still using, but most were there because they were not only recovering addicts, but also very codependent themselves, and needed to address part of their recovery to those issues.

Being codependent is not always about loving an addict. Many codependents have never had issues of substance abuse in their lives. But they have a need to control or be controlled, they focus on others rather than on themselves, and they struggle in relationships and lose sight of thier own needs.

He very well may be codependent, and hopefully will one day discover that and address it.

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Old 02-09-2005, 06:58 PM
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I borrowed this from another thread, because it shows the patterns of codependent behaviour. People can have these tendencies, whether or not they love an addict, or are one, or have no substance issues in their life.

Hope it helps clarify a little.

CHARACTERISTICS OF CO-DEPENDENT

1. My good feelings about who I am stem from being liked by you and receiving approval from you.

2. Your struggles affect my serenity. My mental attention focuses on solving your problems or relieving your pain.

3. My attention is focused on pleasing you, protecting you, manipulating you to "do it my way".

4. My self-esteem is bolstered by solving your problems and relieving your pain.

5. My own hobbies and interests are put aside. My time is spent sharing your interests and hobbies.

6. Because I feel you are a reflection of me, your clothing and personal appearance are dictated by my desires.

7. Your behavior is dictated by my desires.

8. I am not aware of how I feel. I am aware of how you feel. I am not aware of what I want. I ask you what you want. If I am not aware of some thing, I assume.

9. The dreams I have for my future are linked to you.

10. My fear of your anger and rejection determine what I say or do. In our relationship, I use giving as a way of feeling safe.
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Old 02-09-2005, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Ann
I borrowed this from another thread, because it shows the patterns of codependent behaviour. People can have these tendencies, whether or not they love an addict, or are one, or have no substance issues in their life.

Hope it helps clarify a little.

CHARACTERISTICS OF CO-DEPENDENT

1. My good feelings about who I am stem from being liked by you and receiving approval from you.

2. Your struggles affect my serenity. My mental attention focuses on solving your problems or relieving your pain.

3. My attention is focused on pleasing you, protecting you, manipulating you to "do it my way".

4. My self-esteem is bolstered by solving your problems and relieving your pain.

5. My own hobbies and interests are put aside. My time is spent sharing your interests and hobbies.

6. Because I feel you are a reflection of me, your clothing and personal appearance are dictated by my desires.

7. Your behavior is dictated by my desires.

8. I am not aware of how I feel. I am aware of how you feel. I am not aware of what I want. I ask you what you want. If I am not aware of some thing, I assume.

9. The dreams I have for my future are linked to you.

10. My fear of your anger and rejection determine what I say or do. In our relationship, I use giving as a way of feeling safe.
WOW !!

Reading that made me realize I HAVE to read Co-Dependant No More again.

Thanks for bringing that up!!

Sorry i highjacked this for a sec.
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