Could I have some opinions?
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Could I have some opinions?
My husband is trying really hard. That's not based on anything he's said, it's based on what I'm seeing him do.
Ok - he did start drinking again and yes it has crept up BUT he's busting a gut to be able to drink without it going out of control. It'll be a week tomorrow since he last drank. He's limited himself to around 4 pints when he has drank and I think knowing it's still more frequent than he wanted it to be has upset him.
When we talk about it I keep bringing it back to an issue of control, that I know he's meant every intention despite having not achieved it, and that his control over it is what has always worried me.
What I want to check out is my outlook on it. First of all I want him to be in control not me, it's odd because he wants me to be in control - he offers to stop if I want him to but says it's not what he wants. He offers that frequently enough to make me think he'd quite like me to take the reins.
On the issue of control he won't go to a bar on his own - so I could (if I chose to) effectively control his drinking by not going with him. He's really worried about drinking in the house again and has said himself he doesn't want to do that. It's an odd situation which I've got no chance of convincing someone if they don't believe me - but he won't / can't go alone.
So far I've made it clear I'm just as happy not going, I've not suggested going out but if he's asked I've said it's up to him. For myself I'd rather booze stay the issue (ie he has my company either way but is choosing the booze for himself). It's not often he comes out with me so if we do go I intend to enjoy it, drink or no drink.
I'm trying to act how I feel - that he has to come to his own decisions based on HIS relationship to alcohol and I've felt that if I suddenly refuse to be with him when he drinks I'm would only be doing that to stop him drinking. He doesn't do anything embarassing, abusive, excessive, or even inconsiderate when he drinks, he stops before he's drunk so other than control there's no reason I would refuse to be in his company. Does this seem ok??
the other thing is that he's drinking at the most twice a week and as I said stopping at 4 pints but the next day he's totally wiped out. He looks AWFUL, has deirrioah (sp??) and falls asleep constantly as soon as he sits down. He won't eat anything till the afternoon and is as white as a sheet. It's like it used to be when he'd drank 3 times the amount before he stopped for nearly 2 months. Is this normal??
Last Saturday I told him I hate seeing him so ill and he said he'd have to try harder not to drink, he hasn't said anything about wanting to go for a drink since.
He's doing this alone and I might not (read don't) agree with how he's doing it but that's for him to sort out. My questions are really whether my behaviour/reasoning seems ok and about the physical effects of comparitively light drinking on him - I just want to know if anyone else has seen the same.
Ok - he did start drinking again and yes it has crept up BUT he's busting a gut to be able to drink without it going out of control. It'll be a week tomorrow since he last drank. He's limited himself to around 4 pints when he has drank and I think knowing it's still more frequent than he wanted it to be has upset him.
When we talk about it I keep bringing it back to an issue of control, that I know he's meant every intention despite having not achieved it, and that his control over it is what has always worried me.
What I want to check out is my outlook on it. First of all I want him to be in control not me, it's odd because he wants me to be in control - he offers to stop if I want him to but says it's not what he wants. He offers that frequently enough to make me think he'd quite like me to take the reins.
On the issue of control he won't go to a bar on his own - so I could (if I chose to) effectively control his drinking by not going with him. He's really worried about drinking in the house again and has said himself he doesn't want to do that. It's an odd situation which I've got no chance of convincing someone if they don't believe me - but he won't / can't go alone.
So far I've made it clear I'm just as happy not going, I've not suggested going out but if he's asked I've said it's up to him. For myself I'd rather booze stay the issue (ie he has my company either way but is choosing the booze for himself). It's not often he comes out with me so if we do go I intend to enjoy it, drink or no drink.
I'm trying to act how I feel - that he has to come to his own decisions based on HIS relationship to alcohol and I've felt that if I suddenly refuse to be with him when he drinks I'm would only be doing that to stop him drinking. He doesn't do anything embarassing, abusive, excessive, or even inconsiderate when he drinks, he stops before he's drunk so other than control there's no reason I would refuse to be in his company. Does this seem ok??
the other thing is that he's drinking at the most twice a week and as I said stopping at 4 pints but the next day he's totally wiped out. He looks AWFUL, has deirrioah (sp??) and falls asleep constantly as soon as he sits down. He won't eat anything till the afternoon and is as white as a sheet. It's like it used to be when he'd drank 3 times the amount before he stopped for nearly 2 months. Is this normal??
Last Saturday I told him I hate seeing him so ill and he said he'd have to try harder not to drink, he hasn't said anything about wanting to go for a drink since.
He's doing this alone and I might not (read don't) agree with how he's doing it but that's for him to sort out. My questions are really whether my behaviour/reasoning seems ok and about the physical effects of comparitively light drinking on him - I just want to know if anyone else has seen the same.
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Join Date: Dec 2004
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My AH attempeted "controlled drinking" it is only a step in the progression of alcoholism.
We did "I will only drink beer"
"I Will only have 1 shot whiskey"
"I will only drink in my shop"
"I will only drink at the bar"
"I will only drink with you"
"Tell me when you think I have had enough and I will stop"
If he is truley an alcoholic it is a phase that passes. He will aquire a new platuea of drinking. Sorry to be so blunt but my AH drinking is now being controlled by the State Prison System and my life is screwed.
We did "I will only drink beer"
"I Will only have 1 shot whiskey"
"I will only drink in my shop"
"I will only drink at the bar"
"I will only drink with you"
"Tell me when you think I have had enough and I will stop"
If he is truley an alcoholic it is a phase that passes. He will aquire a new platuea of drinking. Sorry to be so blunt but my AH drinking is now being controlled by the State Prison System and my life is screwed.
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Actually I was wondering more about my own behaviour and reasoning not his.
I understand your concern and I know it comes from the heart. My eyes are open but to far more details than I can put in one post, this is a stage - I know that but judging by all his past actions I personally believe that as he realises it isn't working he'll chose to stop. That's just my personal belief - but I no more have a crystal ball then the next person so time will tell.
I still think it's important that it's his choice.
I understand your concern and I know it comes from the heart. My eyes are open but to far more details than I can put in one post, this is a stage - I know that but judging by all his past actions I personally believe that as he realises it isn't working he'll chose to stop. That's just my personal belief - but I no more have a crystal ball then the next person so time will tell.
I still think it's important that it's his choice.
Searching and tripping
Join Date: Sep 2004
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I guess short and sweet is that you have to mind your wellbeing and he needs to take care of himself. My son constantly asks me for advice since he's been home. As hard as it is for me to keep my mouth shut and not be a Mom...he gets the same answer all the time. "It's totally up to you what you do because it's your life and not mine and even if I gave my opinion to you, it's not what you really want."
It's known that when a person stops drinking and then picks it up, they begin at the place they left off. So, if he's drinking a lot less than before, the effects are going to be the same.
My husband would ask me to tell him when to stop or before he was wasted. I did it several times until it got to the point he turned it on me and accused me of trying to control his life. Then used that as an excuse to drink. It's a no win situation.
What decisions you make are always best reflected in what is best for you and your wellbeing.
Blessings, Kathy
It's known that when a person stops drinking and then picks it up, they begin at the place they left off. So, if he's drinking a lot less than before, the effects are going to be the same.
My husband would ask me to tell him when to stop or before he was wasted. I did it several times until it got to the point he turned it on me and accused me of trying to control his life. Then used that as an excuse to drink. It's a no win situation.
What decisions you make are always best reflected in what is best for you and your wellbeing.
Blessings, Kathy
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I guess I was confused, your post had ALOT of issues. I am realizing it just may not be a good time for me to offer any opinions. Not feeling very possitive about the disease and outcomes right now. Thanks for the wake up call. 
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I don't want anyone banning.... I don't want to ask about his future - I've done my own researching, enough to know there are real risks and I'm not asking for peoples opinions on his future. I can understand your emotions, however people do recover and I won't waste this time (which is all I have for absolute certain) panicking about the future.
Kathy - what you said made sense and right now what I'm doing DOES feel right for me, I ned the ball to be in his court the rest is up to him.
Kathy - what you said made sense and right now what I'm doing DOES feel right for me, I ned the ball to be in his court the rest is up to him.
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Join Date: Oct 2003
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First, as people age, their ability to metabolize alcohol goes down. Therefore, it takes less to cause the same reactions. This is especially true for people who have drank heavily for a long period of time. At some point in the aging process, it seems suddenly our metabolism changes.
Second, if I hadn't tried everything I knew to try, I couldn't have been ready for the recovery that Al-Anon offered me. All those years of trying this control, and that excuse, and whatever the cure of the day happened to be, was preparation for becoming willing to try something different, odd, distasteful, and off in left field. If I had gotten to Al-Anon prematurely, I probably would have rejected it wholeheartedly. Instead, I came in with an open mind, knowing I didn't have the answer.
Watching someone struggle is painful. But struggle is the only way to growth. If I get in the way of that, I am denying someone the chance to get better. I can love them, but I can't fix them. It is hard to keep from getting in there and trying. But I have faith that it works better if I work on me and they tend to their stuff.
I think you are doing great. Many people never learn to detach with love, but you have. Hugs, Magic
Second, if I hadn't tried everything I knew to try, I couldn't have been ready for the recovery that Al-Anon offered me. All those years of trying this control, and that excuse, and whatever the cure of the day happened to be, was preparation for becoming willing to try something different, odd, distasteful, and off in left field. If I had gotten to Al-Anon prematurely, I probably would have rejected it wholeheartedly. Instead, I came in with an open mind, knowing I didn't have the answer.
Watching someone struggle is painful. But struggle is the only way to growth. If I get in the way of that, I am denying someone the chance to get better. I can love them, but I can't fix them. It is hard to keep from getting in there and trying. But I have faith that it works better if I work on me and they tend to their stuff.
I think you are doing great. Many people never learn to detach with love, but you have. Hugs, Magic
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Join Date: Jan 2003
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I have to agree with MagicHappens.
I made my own decision to stay with my A after the drinking started on a day by day basis. Yes, I did buy his beer. During the last 10 years he only drank at home. What a ritual his drinking became. My Al-Anon sponsor told me if I was staying in the marriage, she'd only allow me to say something to him about his drinking 3 times a year. I stuck to that agreement. At first it was hard but in time it got easier and easier. Til finally I detached and said nothing. I was to keep it in "I statements" only when talking to him about it.
You seem to have mastered that in your journey. I thought learning to stay in my own skin and keeping the focus on me was a gift. Being me is even a greater gift to myself.
Working the Steps of Al-Anon, going to meetings, having a sponsor, a home group, and coming to SR has been an even greater gift. All of these things are just part of the tools I have learned to use in recovery.
I hope your journey is even greater. You're worth it!
I made my own decision to stay with my A after the drinking started on a day by day basis. Yes, I did buy his beer. During the last 10 years he only drank at home. What a ritual his drinking became. My Al-Anon sponsor told me if I was staying in the marriage, she'd only allow me to say something to him about his drinking 3 times a year. I stuck to that agreement. At first it was hard but in time it got easier and easier. Til finally I detached and said nothing. I was to keep it in "I statements" only when talking to him about it.
You seem to have mastered that in your journey. I thought learning to stay in my own skin and keeping the focus on me was a gift. Being me is even a greater gift to myself.
Working the Steps of Al-Anon, going to meetings, having a sponsor, a home group, and coming to SR has been an even greater gift. All of these things are just part of the tools I have learned to use in recovery.
I hope your journey is even greater. You're worth it!
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I think you've been his number one supporter in his efforts, and though it appears he still is progressing toward moderating, he' still drinking. So what is acceptable for you? I can't help but get the sense in some vicarious way he's expecting you to show him each step on the way to his journey, and it just can not work that way. I see him playing you just a wee bit as well. If your comfortable with that, accept his drinking, are willing to endure his illness a couple of times a week more power to you. What do YOU want is what I guess I'm asking.
The older we get the more the sickness of hangovers is enhanced. I'm betting it's just really catching up with him to the point of complete alcohol intolerance thus his sickness on just a few pints, been my experiance anyway. I worry you don't take enough care of you, your wants, your plans, and have trouble with sticking with the boundaries you appear to want to set but seem leary to. I applaud your committment to your husband. If he's going to continue drinking, and you have come to accept that, then tweak things in your favor, so you don't have to worry so much, accept this is just him knowing, there will always be begging to help, continued sickness, low tolerance, and well.. just more yucky stuff. If you accept the unacceptable I think you can better work on some of your concerns, worry less, and feel confident and much more control in your own affairs. You said it best it's up to him and the ball is in his court, why he's figuring out what to do with it, take good care of you!
The older we get the more the sickness of hangovers is enhanced. I'm betting it's just really catching up with him to the point of complete alcohol intolerance thus his sickness on just a few pints, been my experiance anyway. I worry you don't take enough care of you, your wants, your plans, and have trouble with sticking with the boundaries you appear to want to set but seem leary to. I applaud your committment to your husband. If he's going to continue drinking, and you have come to accept that, then tweak things in your favor, so you don't have to worry so much, accept this is just him knowing, there will always be begging to help, continued sickness, low tolerance, and well.. just more yucky stuff. If you accept the unacceptable I think you can better work on some of your concerns, worry less, and feel confident and much more control in your own affairs. You said it best it's up to him and the ball is in his court, why he's figuring out what to do with it, take good care of you!
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I was to keep it in "I statements" only when talking to him about it.
Magic what you say makes ABSOLUTE sense for me and him individually. I don't want to take away this time from him, I don't want to even try to do that. People do recover from alcoholism and most of what I've read suggest that those who SUCCEED tried to control their drinking before they stopped because they couldn't. Like you, I believe that serves a purpose and is neccessary if the 'stop' is going to last.
My belief he will be one of the ones who does recover isn't wrong or delusional - why shouldn't he be? the fact that he isn't ready YET doesn't mean that he never will be. EVERYONE who recovers was once ill - so his being ill now doesn't negate is chances.
My belief that he will make it is based on his will power and that he doesn't give up. He's gone through years he can't remember and his longest total blackout was a fortnight, he was even homeless for a while - BUT he NEVER gave up and by the time he came looking for me he had a flat, a £26K a year job and a car!! He keeps many of his own boundaries despite being ill - he won't drink ANYTHING if he's driving on the same day. He has already overcome things most people never have to contend with in the first place.
So in short - YES I know he could relapse into the worst of drinking, if that happened I think I would lose him pretty quickly because physically he couldn't cope with it at all before and would have even less chance now.
BUT - if I was a betting woman - his constant efforts, his determination to fight it and his kick ass attitude to never giving in would make me back him. I believe he will succeed in the long run.
Lastly my only certainty is now. I woke up next to the man I love, he's doing well at work, he treats me with adoration - well beyond the dignity or respect I would ask for. I would have given anything for one more day for so many years and now every morning I wake up to one more day. Today is certain - this morning happened and therefore has a probability of 1 (certain). As I have already lived through losing him once, as I know only to well what could happen I CHOOSE to not waste this time by letting my mind picture all possible evils. If to some people here that makes me in denial or leary I can live with that easier than I can live with not valuing what I have now.
I would marry him just as fast tomorrow, he makes me laugh and cry, his gentleness astounds me, his passion for all things blows my mind. His tender care of his 40 bonsai cuttings makes my heart smile. And I'm PROUD of him, at works do's when I get asked whether I realise how clever he is and I give a cheeky grin in return while nodding, when I read the comments made by tutors on his Open Uni work, when I think how many people would have just given in - I'm proud of him. If it's ill to marry someone you love then I truly am sick - and have no intention of getting well.
He is not alcoholism - he is someone who deals with alcoholism and has already built a life despite it. He is not my alcoholic, he is my husband.
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Hey equus,
I also live with an active alcoholic who sounds much like your husband and I prefer to look at it like being married "one day at a time". He is a good man, he adores me, treats me well, supports us well...but takes a liquid vacation every day. I fill my time with other things when he is "gone" and I live my life fully.
I have been around this program just over 10 years and it has taken me almost that long to be truly successful in letting him go. I just leave him alone to make his own decisions and I don't give a thought to whether he will ever get sober or not. With the help of Al Anon and my friends here at SR I no longer focus on him at all. I am a lot happier that way. If something jumps up that requires me to pay attention then I do but I have no desire to be in his head. I have enough trouble living in my own!
Hugs,
JT
I also live with an active alcoholic who sounds much like your husband and I prefer to look at it like being married "one day at a time". He is a good man, he adores me, treats me well, supports us well...but takes a liquid vacation every day. I fill my time with other things when he is "gone" and I live my life fully.
I have been around this program just over 10 years and it has taken me almost that long to be truly successful in letting him go. I just leave him alone to make his own decisions and I don't give a thought to whether he will ever get sober or not. With the help of Al Anon and my friends here at SR I no longer focus on him at all. I am a lot happier that way. If something jumps up that requires me to pay attention then I do but I have no desire to be in his head. I have enough trouble living in my own!
Hugs,
JT
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i read somewhere that it's probably of no use to try and figure out the disease of alcoholism and then another page said that alcoholism is part physical and part emotional. (may have been in the Courage to Change book). i can understand the physical-it is the emotional part that is daunting.
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Thanks JT!! That was good to hear. I must admit it's more in my mind since he said he wanted to stop in October. Before then I accepted him drinking daily and did have a respect for him not letting himself drink till drunk. We were enjoying everything life has to the full.
I also understood why when he said he was stopping, I understood it was serious and I suppose seeing his concern woke my worry up.
I have hope and belief but no means to tell the future - I think I'm working on joining you JT, I have today in a bloody good marriage and that for today is enough.
I also understood why when he said he was stopping, I understood it was serious and I suppose seeing his concern woke my worry up.
I have hope and belief but no means to tell the future - I think I'm working on joining you JT, I have today in a bloody good marriage and that for today is enough.
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That was a lovely post above equus. JT is a shining example on how one can make it work, I hope you'll follow in her foot steps. I love this thread because it provides hope and allows the ability for others to see that it is possible to live with and love an alcoholic, see I'm one of the fortunate ones who had a huge supporter like you equus. I'm grateful my husband stuck with me, loves me despite it all. We're all flawed in some way, but if you have found a way to make it work, and continue to love the alcoholic in your life, I find that comforting, as more people around here need that hope as sometimes it's only the bad of relationships we hear about. You will continue to worry, it's natural, but so long as your okay with it, then no one should speak ill otherwise.
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Thanks Chy.
I did have a hard night last night mainly because I slipped into feeling that hope was wrong/sick. It's been a while since I spent a whole day battling with something but I have today. In writing my rather long response so many things hurtled through my mind but inside I know the answer is to stop fearing tomorrow, the fear is pointless.
If he had cancer, if he had AIDS, if he had CJD or alziemers I would still want each and every day we could have, I would rather have him healthy than ill but I'd rather have him ill than not have him at all - yuck or no yuck. Fear only has a point where it guides you to avoid something and as I choose to be with him I haven't the power to avoid this illness which in turn makes the fear a complete waste of time.
Hope is different, that warms me and as terrifying as alcoholism is he is also one kick ass dude, hope makes me smile because it brings with it a realisation of how far he has come already. What he's achieved is damn near impossible and yet I wake each morning to living, breathing proof - If I forgot to let that make me smile then I've lost THAT chance for a feeling of warmth and love.
Acoholism stripped both of us of nearly ten years worth of mornings with each other - they are gone. Now I need to love absolutely the ones that are here.
My feelings about this thread have really changed - I don't feel so much like I have to prove my own sanity!!
I did have a hard night last night mainly because I slipped into feeling that hope was wrong/sick. It's been a while since I spent a whole day battling with something but I have today. In writing my rather long response so many things hurtled through my mind but inside I know the answer is to stop fearing tomorrow, the fear is pointless.
If he had cancer, if he had AIDS, if he had CJD or alziemers I would still want each and every day we could have, I would rather have him healthy than ill but I'd rather have him ill than not have him at all - yuck or no yuck. Fear only has a point where it guides you to avoid something and as I choose to be with him I haven't the power to avoid this illness which in turn makes the fear a complete waste of time.
Hope is different, that warms me and as terrifying as alcoholism is he is also one kick ass dude, hope makes me smile because it brings with it a realisation of how far he has come already. What he's achieved is damn near impossible and yet I wake each morning to living, breathing proof - If I forgot to let that make me smile then I've lost THAT chance for a feeling of warmth and love.
Acoholism stripped both of us of nearly ten years worth of mornings with each other - they are gone. Now I need to love absolutely the ones that are here.
My feelings about this thread have really changed - I don't feel so much like I have to prove my own sanity!!
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Join Date: Jan 2003
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Please forgive me ,equus, I didn't have a chance to finish my post.
The hope of my journey is that I have serenity most of the time today. My spouse hasn't drank for well over 2 years now and isn't working any kind of program. I still work my program and come here for MY recovery.
As for my spouse he is a kind, loving, trustworthy, and hard working man, even when he was drinking. He supports me and our family. The only things we don't share are TV and a 12 Step program. Here is my hope, equus, I work my program for me not for him or others though believe me when I say they benefit from my working it. He had to decide for himself what he wanted and allow me the same freedom.
We all have a "bad hair day" where there seems to be no hope. But sharing our feelings here on SR is one way that we can again pick up the HOPE of a better day this afternoon or tomorrow.
I hope a sunbeam tickles your nose today!
The hope of my journey is that I have serenity most of the time today. My spouse hasn't drank for well over 2 years now and isn't working any kind of program. I still work my program and come here for MY recovery.
As for my spouse he is a kind, loving, trustworthy, and hard working man, even when he was drinking. He supports me and our family. The only things we don't share are TV and a 12 Step program. Here is my hope, equus, I work my program for me not for him or others though believe me when I say they benefit from my working it. He had to decide for himself what he wanted and allow me the same freedom.
We all have a "bad hair day" where there seems to be no hope. But sharing our feelings here on SR is one way that we can again pick up the HOPE of a better day this afternoon or tomorrow.
I hope a sunbeam tickles your nose today!
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I hope a sunbeam tickles your nose today!
And for anyone with a long memory - he's busy sawing loft boards!!!
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