luvbug2005

I thought I might get some advice here. I am involved in a romantic relationship with a man who has been sober now for a year and is in step 4 of the 12 step program. He seems generally pretty healthy and positive but is often overcome by feelings of guilt over lies he has told others in the past and the fact that he feels he was always a "phoney." He claims he does not have the urge to drink anymore yet says he fears being back in the place he was if he can't always be honest about every little thing with everyone he meets. This seem a little contradictory to me. Is this a normal fear that many alcoholics face? He goes to AA meetings on a daily basis, often 2x a day on the weekends, that seems like a lot but I don't know what the norm is. If it helps be a better person than I support it. I just need some insite on what he's going through and what I can do to be supportive of him. He is an amazing man and I've never seen anyone trying so hard to better themselves as a whole. I admire him more than anything but he really beats himself up. Any advice would be great. Thank you!

elizabeth1979

OK, here goes. Welcome! I was waiting for someone else to say something that is better at this than me....I just want to say please be careful...from my own experience, things are not always what they seem and expecially with alcoholics. When I first came to SR, everyone told me to run away from my A. In hindsight, I probably should have, but he wasnt sober like yours is. PLease be careful of your emotions. Oh- and a meeting everyday...I think its good, and would rather mine was in meeting than a bar.
Love and luck,
Sarah

Chuckles101301

I too generally wait for someone with more experience to answer these posts, but I will give it a try. My AH is 4 months sober, we've been married for 3.5 years. together for 5.5. We have 2 children (my step-son is 8 and my daughter is 13 months) He is sober after in-patient treatment and goes to AA everyday, sometimes twice a day, he attends a class for healthcare workers (he's a paramedic) and meets with his sponsors (2) at least once a week. We go to open AA meetings, speaker meetings, AA-sponsored social events, al-anon-sponsored social events, and I attend al-anon. He submits to random drug and alcohol testing (several times a quarter) and we attend family/couple's counseling. We attend workshops together or separate depending on who's schedule can fit it in. I take care of the finances because he has difficulty in this area. I work full-time. He is unemployed, but stays home with our daughter. He is in school. That is our current recovery situation. When he came out of treatment we made a decision together to put his recovery (and mine) above all else. We made a lifestyle change and we do not do many of the things we did before and we do not hang out with the same people we did before. It was a life or death choice for our family. With all this, my AH still drops into depression, voices concerns about his lack of friends (all of them use alcohol heavily), and wishes things could be "normal". What is "normal" anymore....we are not a "normal" couple/family. He has good days and bad days and he cannot change over night....neither can I for that matter. We have crazy arguments and are sometimes awkward together. We kind of limp along day-to-day. I will not advise you whether you should run or stay, all I will say is take everything so slowly. Keep your ears, eyes and mind open, while sometimes keeping your mouth closed. Everyone deserves happiness and love. Your ASO is still very much working a program and he could be for the rest of his life. He could move through step-four only to revisit is again and again. He is learning to be sober everyday and then the next day learning it all over again. This is a maintainence disease, a lifelong disease. You don't have to decide today if you will continue your relationship. You can decide tomorrow or the next day or next week or month, but it is your decision. In my experience, ultimatums don't work with the recovering alcoholic either, so if you can't accept something about this man now don't expect to change it in the future. Know your boundaries and limits and take your relationship one day at a time. Attend al-anon. Accept the program he has chosen to use to stay sober and embrace it because it is his lifeline. Know that each day is going to be different then the one before and be supportive, but remember that he may slip or he may fall and that you could someday be dealing with a drinking alcoholic. Each day that he is sober gets easier and I am thankful for one more sober day, but I still can't shake the feeling that maybe someday he will drink again.....I am giving it time. Yeah for your SO that he is maintaining his sobriety....one year is wonderful! Peace.

TinyVoice

My experience is that I was dating/living with an alcoholic in total denial. So if that were your case, I would say get out before you get any closer. I chose to get out eventually and it was rough. And when I look back on the relationship it was soo horrible for me.

I have attended Al-Anon and read lot of codependent books to try to help me realize why I seem attracted to unhealthy men. I have no experience with an A in a program or recovery. I do know that for me it would be difficult. Recovering from this disease takes a lot of time and commitment. And there is the worry taht he will get the urge to drink again someday. And just becuase he isn't drinking, is he still exhibiting the issues that often accompany the disease? And can you be supportive but not caretaking? I would have a hard time with that. So I wouldn't be good for a recovering A.

When I was dating my A, I had a freind that told me on a daily basis that I needed to leave him. There was nothing she could say to convince me at the time. I was "so in love". I had to make up my own mind and in my own time. Do I wish I had come to this conclusion earlier? YES. It would have saved me a lot of pain. But that isn't how life works I guess.

Just beomce knowledgable. Your post is a good one. Your qeustions are good. I hope some more experienced posters come along. I wasn't much help but wanted to respond. If you want to be in a relationship and he is in an AA program. I would definitley think you would want to attend Al-Anon meetings. Would hlep you a great deal to be in this relationship and understand what he is going thru.

queenofthehwy

I agree with TV I think Al Anon would be a good place to start. My experience is also with an A in total denial so I dont have much advice for you. sorry.

Mindi

Prophet3276

Dear Miss, In any relationship where your spouse is an alcoholic or a cross-addicted alcoholic the one thing that i notice always seems to keep them going is "Positive Input." If you tell the person that you think it's great that they're going to these programs and that you really believe that they're going to get through it then they will keep striving to do better in their lives. As long as you both believe in eachother and believe in God then you will both be able to get through this together. I have an ex-girlfriend named Becky who is a cross-addicted alcoholic and she has been going to AA meetings and NA meetings in order to help her overcome her addictions and she is doing an amazing job for a starter at attending the meetings as best she can. It's a real struggle to remain consistent in such a program because what i've noticed is if they drop out for even a moment that is when they tend to stray and lean towards the drink or the drug. So be very supportive of him, but not overwhelmingly supportive but it also might be a good idea if you were a little absorbed into what it is about as well just to get a rough idea of what it is that he is going through in his meetings. That way you're not totally left in the dark about what to do should he happen to end up in a crux of a situation and he doesn't end up relapsing after such a long time of doing so well. I really admire people who have gotten that far down the road of life in the AA or NA 12 steps they're people that i consider real accomplishers of goals and achievements so go ahead sweetheart and support that star shooter . I hope to hear from you soon,good luck in all you do.


Signed,
Greg
And remember it's positive input and believe strongly in him that he has the potential to achieve it and that you both believe in God.

Prophet3276

Dear Miss, In any relationship where your spouse is an alcoholic or a cross-addicted alcoholic the one thing that i notice always seems to keep them going is "Positive Input." If you tell the person that you think it's great that they're going to these programs and that you really believe that they're going to get through it then they will keep striving to do better in their lives. As long as you both believe in eachother and believe in God then you will both be able to get through this together. I have an ex-girlfriend named Becky who is a cross-addicted alcoholic and she has been going to AA meetings and NA meetings in order to help her overcome her addictions and she is doing an amazing job for a starter at attending the meetings as best she can.

It's a real struggle to remain consistent in such a program because what i've noticed is if they drop out for even a moment that is when they tend to stray and lean towards the drink or the drug. So be very supportive of him, but not overwhelmingly supportive but it also might be a good idea if you were a little absorbed into what it is about as well just to get a rough idea of what it is that he is going through in his meetings. That way you're not totally left in the dark about what to do should he happen to end up in a crux of a situation and he doesn't end up relapsing after such a long time of doing so well. I really admire people who have gotten that far down the road of life in the AA or NA 12 steps they're people that i consider real accomplishers of goals and achievements so go ahead sweetheart and support that star shooter . I hope to hear from you soon,good luck in all you do.


Signed,
Greg
And remember it's positive input and believe strongly in him that he has the potential to achieve it and that you both believe in God. I love how these discussion boards don't lose what you typed to the forward and back buttons .

Prophet3276

Dear Miss, I read on another post how somebody mentioned denial as part of a relationship. When i was in my relationship with Becky, (well first let me say that Denial is the one aspect of alcohlism that an alcoholic doesn't even want to touch), I tried to point her towards the aspect of Denial in the blue book and she glimpsed over it and said she wouldn't read it. She wouldn't read it because she didn't think she was in denial of her alcoholism, it's almost as if she was "denying her denial."

It is one of the hardest aspects of alcoholism to get around my best advice to you is to not tarry with that aspect on a personal level with him, let the meetings do that. But if you want to maybe circumvent your emotions about this factor to the AA group so that it becomes more known and well practiced on a psychological level that the alcoholics can understand as a group. Then in that case i suggest you contact the leader of the AA group and ask them if they would talk about the aspect of Denial because you feel that it is one of the most common traits among alcoholics, i do too my dear because i feel like my ex was denying her denial that she had alcoholism, do you see what i mean? :/.

So don't talk about these serious issues head on with your spouse but rather more circumvent it towards the AA group leader and ask them if they could give some good advice to the AA group about that aspect because it feels very commonplace among alcoholics lately. That is all i have to say on that issue, I wish you the best of luck. I hope to hear from you soon,good luck in all you do.


Signed,
Greg

smoke gets in my eyes

Hi Luvbug...

90 meetings in 90 days is encouraged when someone starts a 12 step group. It may seem like an awful lot, but immersion into recovery is the idea. No time to stray. What's "normal" after that is what's needed for the individual.

Who knows? The honesty issue with your guy may be something that goes back to his childhood and a cause of his alcoholism. If it's a big deal to him, it's a big deal. Pretty often you'll read on this board comments from the spouses of alcoholics that are in recovery but don't seem to own their past indiscretions. (And pretty often that spouse is ticked off about it. ) You've got the opposite problem. Your's is just wallowing in ownership. So normal? The only thing that's really normal is that recovery is bumpy for everybody.

Try to enjoy the good of him and trust him to handle his own recovery. He is the only one who can. I don't know if this will give you hope or cause you despair, but Dino has been working at recovery for four years and suddenly last year the weirdnesses seem to have dropped away. He didn't get sick in a year and he couldn't get well in a year. But now he's not any stranger than most people. (And still delightfully individual.)

Hugs!
Smoke

Natalie

my gosh..i was so happy to read your message b/c it is so similar to what i'm going through right now and am so confused. i've only been dating my recovering alcoholic for a couple of months, but i am just living in a world of questions and confusion. he's been sober for over 6 months, and says the same thing about needing to be honest about everything, etc. i think that is great, although some of the things he says really make me uncomfortable or upset, but i feel like i cannot react the way i want to, b/c i fear i may upset him. he also says that he doesn't feel the desire or yearn to drink - he said he just doesn't want to end up feeling the way he felt before or be 'in the same place' as he was when he was drinking....

what are you doing about this? are you considering al anon meetings? have you found anything to help bring you some piece of mind? i'm just as confused and asking the same questions as you.....

there for you....

natalie

jessiebug

First and foremost, I'm TRYING to make my relationship work, despite some of our issues, but this is yet another issue I've been thinking about. I feel like I can't always talk to my recovering addict about how I feel because I'm afraid of setting him off. The one, wonderful, thing that happened? His sponsor told me I could call him and dump if I needed to. He also feels my addict isn't able to handle those relationship issues right now, but he's helping both of us through this. Now, I don't abuse that relationship and I know his primary focus is my boyfriend, but when I hear rumors, I call the sponsor. The sponsor actually has told me that, yes, that happened, but not that way and he's really stepped in to help me recover as well. He constantly reminds me though that I shouldn't worry about rebuilding my relationship with my addict right now. Right now, I should focus on myself and I do agree with that. It's just that I love him and sometimes, I need to be able to talk to him about us. Especially as I learn more about myself and my own issues. Oh well...only time will tell. I'm just grateful he's in recovery right now. Thanks for letting me ramble.

jessiebug

Dang it...I forgot the point of that. Anyway, the point is, I am just about to start counseling and I'm looking for more and more NarAnon, AlaNon, Coda, etc. meetings. I need to be a better person at the end of this and I think it can only help us all.

luvbug2005

I really appreciate all your help, you have no idea how much it meant to me to log on hear and read all of your replies. After reading all you had to say I plan on attending an Al-Anon meeting. I want so badly to be there for this man. I think he is worth it! Thank you and ((hugs)) to you all for responding. I'll keep you updated.

perceptron

Many alcoholics in recovery seem like hollow shells. 12-step recovery can stay the main focus in their life for years or decades. Though this is certainly better than drinking, it can leave little room for other things in their/your lives. But this is partly due to how comprehensive the 12 step programs are, involving religion/being a way of life.

Still, it can seem pathetic when simply not drinking is a man's greatest accomplishment -- and I have met recovered alcoholics like that. Men who continue going to AA and brag about 20 years of sobriety, while living with their mothers and not owning a car, etc. Sobriety is their only avenue towards recognition.

CatsTail

Hi,

Your A is in recovery and good to meetings, two on the weekends HOORAY for him and hooray for him also he's taking ownership for himself even if it's extreme.

Count yourself lucky that he's sticking to his program Good sign.

Ngaire

acoagirl

So what are the chances of two people in recovery falling in love? I was seeing a guy in AA (2 years in recovery and attended meetings 2-3 times a week). After seeing him for a month (mostly friends, more than anything romantic) he started to get romantic with me, then backed off. I just have this feeling that he is seeing someone else and as involved as he is in AA, I am thinking he met someone there. Do you think that two people who are in AA together are morel likely to fall in love, than with someone who is not in the program? They all seem so close in those groups, getting together after meetings for fellowship, dinners, etc.
:codiepolice

abcdefg

you really are on the right track! Al-anon is the best resource for you right now because it teaches us to focus on ourselves.

i always like to share that Al-anon does not tell us to stay or leave the A. that is not the point. if people at a meeting give advice like that, pay no attention. if you try to keep and open mind, you will find help. you will come to your own solutions in your own time.

you will also learn concrete things in the meetings, literature and here on SR about how to respond to various challenges of sobriety as the non-A partner. i think it's great!

good for you and good luck to both of you!

cem001

Oh, I can so relate to this issue. My RAH is in the middle of his 4th step. We have been together for 25 years, and have been married almost 21. I was a child bride of 17 and he was 21. NO, I was NOT pregnant when we got married. Our first child came along almost 4 years after being married. Back to the 4th step, I am struggling with this issue with him as well. I know for a fact he has done things that he shouldn't have with other women. So therefore it's a daily struggle to find out where we stand on top of where he is in his recovery. He's dragging his feet, and becoming more depressed with each day passing. I would have thought his sponsor would have been checking on him by now.

I was really hoping that some of the usual people who post alot on here would have tackled your post. Maybe they will today because I get so much out of their advice.

Find Al-Anon, and work your steps and maybe write a few Dear God letters.

bush

I googled relationship problems with alcoholics and it led me here and I have to say that Percptron's post certainly struck a chord with me.

What follows may seem cruel, rude, unsympathetic and perhaps just downright wrong, but it's how I feel right now.

I have been seeing a lovely young lady for about 18 months now, and we've been living together for just over six months.

When we started out, she was not doing the steps, was doing an OU degree course and a part time job. She told me reluctantly about her addiction, and I was supportive.

She has not had a drink for three years, and I'm extremely proud of her. I am not an alcoholic myself - indeed, I just drink socially on the few occasions I venture out with friends - but I am addicted to cigarettes, and was addicted to solpadeine for a number of years. The solpadeine I beat on my own, eventually, the cigarettes I can't imagine living without.

So to me, her doing the steps and beating alcohol was amazing to me.

She decided to re-do the steps. Her first sponsor was a complete disaster. Her current one lives some distance away, and she does her step work over the phone.


She has issues with her popularity. The amount of friends she has. That she's not fun or interesting.

I can tell you now that she is NOT fun or interesting anymore. The only thing she seems to want to talk about, or work towards, is her step work. It takes up ALL her free time and to say the least it's frustrating as hell. She has a full time job now, and when I get home from work, she's doing something AA related. Before she goes to bed, she's doing her affirmations. She's put her OU course on hold.

Also, most of the friends she has are part of AA. I have met them several times, even went to a meeting once, but my god they are dull and boring. All they *ever* seem to talk about is AA. Seriously. The conversation will ALWAYS swing roung to AA, to other members and how they're doing etc etc.

All very interesting to someone *in* AA, but to someone like me, it gets old fast.

In social situations with 'non' AA people, she lacks confidence, and it's not hard to see why. How can you be interesting to 'normal' people if all you're interested in yourself is AA?

Frankly the whole situation has got boring and I'm truly fed up. It seems to me she's replaced one addiction (alcohol) with another (AA/Step work).

I need mental stimulation, and all I get is AA related stuff.

Now, I tried to do the steps as well - to better understand what it was she was going through, and to better myself. I got to step four (amazing as I don't believe in a higher power) but both my sponsor and myself got amazingly busy and it's kind of stopped now.

She has suggested I go to an al-anon group. I don't know how I'd feel about that. I think it would add weight to her already out of proportion beliefs.

I am 38 and she is 27. I've never been married, and I would like to one day. As some people have mentioned, recovery is a lifelong process. I just don't know if I'm unselfish enough to support her fully for the rest of our lives.

What happens if we have kids? If she's finding work/AA stuff hard to balance, how would a child fit into the equation???

A very large part of me is thinking we should split up. The situation is making me unhappy, and I'm sure my moods aren't exactly helping her either. I have tried to think about all the positives she brings to my life, but there's always that nagging feeling in the back of my mind.

And I feel guilty too. Guilty for wanting the AA/Step stuff to END. Guilty for making it the reason I want to leave.

I am not totally heartless though, honest! I can see that AA has saved thousands of lives and helped people get over what can only be described as a disease. I'm very glad I'm not going out with an alcoholic!

But to have it take over your life is surely counter-productive? A few months ago I heard about a drug that could stop people craving alcohol. Surely a miracle cure for alcoholics I thought! But she refused to entertain the idea of trying it if it became widely available.

I cannot understand why.

I don't know why i've posted on here. I think I just needed to get this off my chest (while she's out at *another* bloody AA meeting!).

Hope you're all well, and thanks for reading...

denny57

Welcome, bush, glad you're here!

I attend Al Anon. There is a man who frequents some of my meetings. He attends up to 2 meetings per day and has been doing it for 5 years. It is his life and he has said so in shares.

I remember sitting there sometimes thinking "you are nuts buddy." I've since come to understand that everyone must do what is right for them in their own life. I don't know what his circumstances are. Perhaps he doesn't have "outside" friends and this is his way of staying present in the world. My definition of living is not his. And that's ok.

I realize today that all I can do is make the decisions that are best for me. I'm a fan of one conversation about the topic and then making decisions based on actions after that conversation.

Good luck and keep posting!