Infidelity Inquiry
Acting not reacting
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: My happy place
Posts: 1,788
Dreamcatcher...yes, call them up and tell them that he has tested positive for a disease and he listed them as a partner so they have to be notified, per Health Department Regs. HAHA! I AM TOTALLY JOKING HERE, please dont anyone get mad!
No, really...I had read that yours had gone away ...and will be dealing that with mine when he is sentenced on Feb 7, so I am sure you will here more from me about that...but we will save it for another day!
I am in a rather chipper mood today...so hugs and snaps to everyone, even if we disagree on matters in this thread.
No, really...I had read that yours had gone away ...and will be dealing that with mine when he is sentenced on Feb 7, so I am sure you will here more from me about that...but we will save it for another day!
I am in a rather chipper mood today...so hugs and snaps to everyone, even if we disagree on matters in this thread.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: houston, tx
Posts: 323
Well on a positive note- my husband[as far as i know and from what he said about the affair] never cheated while drinking or for the first 12 years of his sobriety. Part of it was the middle age crazies. The sex with her hurt but the emotional bond of all their AA sharing was almost worst. Humerous part though was in a letter he wrote but never sent he complained about how she resented his rigid meeting schedule and he resented her going away on AA retreats. When it came down to who he wanted to live with- he said he chose me because I was less controling. :mad1: What he liked most about me also enabled the affair to go on for a long time. Be glad if your spouse is in recovery- just keep one eye open. My children grew up in a stable home- except for my son hearing other woman leaving message on his phone to my husband years befor I knew.
You must think of alcoholic as chroniclly sick if you accept it is an illness- one that they must have treatment for for the rest of their lives. dax
You must think of alcoholic as chroniclly sick if you accept it is an illness- one that they must have treatment for for the rest of their lives. dax
Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 4
When my husband entered a half-way house for three months of drug/alchol treatment, one of the counselors hounded him relentlessly to spill the story of his "affair". My husband self-righteously insisted there was no affair, but this counselor never let up, and my husband finally told him the truth. He had had a years-long affair with a business partner, and that he considered his relationship with her just another addiction. When husband asked the counselor how he had known there was an affair, the counselor said that only a handful of alcoholics he had worked with over the years had not been unfaithful.
That same counselor also advised husband not to tell me of the affair, just like they advise in the big book.
After he got out of the halfway house and came home, husband said he was astounded by the amount of "thirteenth stepping" at AA meetings. He eventually began attending mens-only meetings to get away from it.
That same counselor also advised husband not to tell me of the affair, just like they advise in the big book.
After he got out of the halfway house and came home, husband said he was astounded by the amount of "thirteenth stepping" at AA meetings. He eventually began attending mens-only meetings to get away from it.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,333
OMG TruBluz....
Here we go again. This subject has been torture to most of us and now you tell us this!!!!!! I just can't get my mind off this stuff, it has been plaguing me for days now!
Where does that say not to tell in the Big Book I want to look it up....
Love, Patty
Here we go again. This subject has been torture to most of us and now you tell us this!!!!!! I just can't get my mind off this stuff, it has been plaguing me for days now!
Where does that say not to tell in the Big Book I want to look it up....
Love, Patty
Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 4
Patty,
The discussion of whether you should admit to an affair as part of making amends for past wrongs is on page 81 of my edition of the big book. Basically, what he says is that you should "not always" admit to an affair. That you should tell your spouse you have done wrong, but that you should not tell who the person you had an affair with is, or where she is and that you should not admit to specific details. The reason given for this is that an alcholic does not have a right to involve their affair partner in the amends he/she makes to the wife and that it will provoke jealousy in the non-alcoholic spouse. He refers to jealousy as the most awful human emotion. He says basically that this is the best thing for the wife. "If we can forget (about the affair), so can she."
TB
The discussion of whether you should admit to an affair as part of making amends for past wrongs is on page 81 of my edition of the big book. Basically, what he says is that you should "not always" admit to an affair. That you should tell your spouse you have done wrong, but that you should not tell who the person you had an affair with is, or where she is and that you should not admit to specific details. The reason given for this is that an alcholic does not have a right to involve their affair partner in the amends he/she makes to the wife and that it will provoke jealousy in the non-alcoholic spouse. He refers to jealousy as the most awful human emotion. He says basically that this is the best thing for the wife. "If we can forget (about the affair), so can she."
TB
Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: houston, tx
Posts: 323
Bill w and affairs
Well you must take anything the Bill W says about affairs with the thought that he was a long time cheater. He continued too have affairs after he was sober- even leaving part of the royalities fron the big book to his last mistress. He just doesn't think you should reaveal an affair because it would cause more stress for the "poor' alcoholic if the spouse got angry[and who would not]. The affair partners should have no rights of privacy. She knowingly went with a married man. To let them get away with it is enabling two people with little morals to get away with a big LIE. dax
Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 4
Agreed, Dax. I don't subscribe to Bill W's views of adultery, but I wanted to portray what he said without adding my editorial comment.
IMO, I think it is impossible for a marriage to recover from an affair if the guilty spouse is not willing to talk about what happened and why it happened. I personally don't think it's possible to make amends for something to someone on the sly, either. I think you have to be forthright about it.
On the other hand, if you go back and read the old Kinsey reports, as many as half of all married men admitted to having an affair, and 30 percent of women. I don't know how many of those also had substance abuse problems, but obviously infidelity is pretty much epidemic throughout our society.
Infidelity hurts whenver it occurs, it probably just seems worse when you've stuck by them through all the fallout from their other addiction issues.
IMO, I think it is impossible for a marriage to recover from an affair if the guilty spouse is not willing to talk about what happened and why it happened. I personally don't think it's possible to make amends for something to someone on the sly, either. I think you have to be forthright about it.
On the other hand, if you go back and read the old Kinsey reports, as many as half of all married men admitted to having an affair, and 30 percent of women. I don't know how many of those also had substance abuse problems, but obviously infidelity is pretty much epidemic throughout our society.
Infidelity hurts whenver it occurs, it probably just seems worse when you've stuck by them through all the fallout from their other addiction issues.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: houston, tx
Posts: 323
Yes that is so true. When you have stuck by them through the drinking and support the program- and then they have an affair with someone also in the program.., It was a double betrayal for me. For 12 years i loved everything about AA. I still think it is the best way for a person to get and stay sober. I also think the 12 steps don't give a flip about the alcoholic's family life. Just my opinion after 26 years in and around program people. dax
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: In Search of Finding ME!
Posts: 1,246
I still stand by my original posting a few pages back concerning anyone under the influence (alcoholic or not) being more at risk to cheat. However, that being said, I also want to say something else - and I'm sticking my neck out here big time!!! But seeing as how this thread is still going, I thought I might as well add my two cents worth in it too! LOL
Do I know for a fact that my AH has cheated on me during our marriage?
Define cheating.
First off, I think that many people view "cheating" on different levels.
As far as sexual intercourse, no, I don't know that my AH ever cheated in this way.
Kissing? Touching? Trying to be w/ other women? etc...... well, yes to the kissing and I'm pretty sure the other stuff is true as well but I have no proof either way.
My AH never went into or worked a program; therefore I can't say anything of that kind of scenario from personal experience.
However, let me give you a weird kind of twist to this subject.
Did I ever "cheat" on my AH?
Yes, I did.
Does he know about it? Yes and no. He knows that "something" happened but he doesn't know what or who, etc.
Why didn't I tell? Well, many reasons really.
But anyways.......to get on with the weird twist of my story here.....
I have to say that I have spent alot of time researching affairs, why they happen, how they happen, etc. Cheating was something that I did NOT believe in! It went against about everything I believed in! Heck, I wouldn't even live with my AH before we were married!
What have I learned? That affairs happen for many reasons. Of course you have the serial cheaters that cheat repeatedly. You also have cheaters that do so for the "thrill" or the "newness" or whatnot. But alot of affairs happen because a person's needs are being met by someone - and that someone is not the spouse.
In my case.....I started a new job. I was meeting people that really liked me for me! They treated me with respect, they enjoyed spending time with me, and they made me realize that I was a "real" person! After having lived with an active alcoholic and having felt the way that I had for years (thinking I was a major failure that my own husband would treat me the way he did, etc), well it was the beginning of my eye-opening!
Unexpectedly, I met someone where I worked. A wonderful guy! And he made me believe I was worthy and that I was a great person just being "me". Wow - you have no idea how overwhelming that is!!! Things eventually did go further than they should have. But in truth, while I went through a major confusing time because of it, the truth is, I was discovering so many things that were just plain "normal".
While I had already slowly started opening my eyes to my life with an AH before my affair began, the affair really opened my eyes even further!
While it may be common for an alcoholic to cheat on a spouse - it's common as well for the spouse to cheat on the alcoholic to have their needs met. Infidelity isn't about alcoholism, it's not about an addiction (unless of course you are talking about sex addicts), it's unfortunately a part of reality. As was pointed out earlier, it happens everyday to millions of couples nationwide.
just my thoughts on the subject. And I know I got a little bit of "rambling" going on there as I hadn't planned to make a post this long.
edited to add: I just realized that I forgot to point out my original thought! LOL.
Just curious if in a weird strange kind of way this may be how an A does fall into an affair while in the program. There is no "past history" with them as their is with thier spouse, they are accepted for who they are - again, no past - and they are spiritually growing as well as finding themselves again. Just makes me kind of wonder.
Hope you all don't mind my long post!
Do I know for a fact that my AH has cheated on me during our marriage?
Define cheating.
First off, I think that many people view "cheating" on different levels.
As far as sexual intercourse, no, I don't know that my AH ever cheated in this way.
Kissing? Touching? Trying to be w/ other women? etc...... well, yes to the kissing and I'm pretty sure the other stuff is true as well but I have no proof either way.
My AH never went into or worked a program; therefore I can't say anything of that kind of scenario from personal experience.
However, let me give you a weird kind of twist to this subject.
Did I ever "cheat" on my AH?
Yes, I did.
Does he know about it? Yes and no. He knows that "something" happened but he doesn't know what or who, etc.
Why didn't I tell? Well, many reasons really.
But anyways.......to get on with the weird twist of my story here.....
I have to say that I have spent alot of time researching affairs, why they happen, how they happen, etc. Cheating was something that I did NOT believe in! It went against about everything I believed in! Heck, I wouldn't even live with my AH before we were married!
What have I learned? That affairs happen for many reasons. Of course you have the serial cheaters that cheat repeatedly. You also have cheaters that do so for the "thrill" or the "newness" or whatnot. But alot of affairs happen because a person's needs are being met by someone - and that someone is not the spouse.
In my case.....I started a new job. I was meeting people that really liked me for me! They treated me with respect, they enjoyed spending time with me, and they made me realize that I was a "real" person! After having lived with an active alcoholic and having felt the way that I had for years (thinking I was a major failure that my own husband would treat me the way he did, etc), well it was the beginning of my eye-opening!
Unexpectedly, I met someone where I worked. A wonderful guy! And he made me believe I was worthy and that I was a great person just being "me". Wow - you have no idea how overwhelming that is!!! Things eventually did go further than they should have. But in truth, while I went through a major confusing time because of it, the truth is, I was discovering so many things that were just plain "normal".
While I had already slowly started opening my eyes to my life with an AH before my affair began, the affair really opened my eyes even further!
While it may be common for an alcoholic to cheat on a spouse - it's common as well for the spouse to cheat on the alcoholic to have their needs met. Infidelity isn't about alcoholism, it's not about an addiction (unless of course you are talking about sex addicts), it's unfortunately a part of reality. As was pointed out earlier, it happens everyday to millions of couples nationwide.
just my thoughts on the subject. And I know I got a little bit of "rambling" going on there as I hadn't planned to make a post this long.
edited to add: I just realized that I forgot to point out my original thought! LOL.
Just curious if in a weird strange kind of way this may be how an A does fall into an affair while in the program. There is no "past history" with them as their is with thier spouse, they are accepted for who they are - again, no past - and they are spiritually growing as well as finding themselves again. Just makes me kind of wonder.
Hope you all don't mind my long post!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: out of town
Posts: 85
AND the plot thickens. How many of us have had affairs of the mind, fantasies with others. Not just sexual, but just spending everyday life with someone we know. Or even sexual, have you ever wondered "Boy I wonder how they would they be in bed?"
YIKES we are human! How many of us have had or thought of an affair as payback? This can go on and on, but I will stop here.
YIKES we are human! How many of us have had or thought of an affair as payback? This can go on and on, but I will stop here.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Wish I knew
Posts: 428
A little aside here-- I found this on another website I go to, and thought it would inject a little humor here...
Jack wakes up at home with a huge hangover he can't believe. He forces
> himself to open his eyes, and the first thing he sees is a couple of
> aspirins next to a glass of water on the side table. And, next to them,
> a single red rose!
> Jack sits down and sees his clothing in front of him, all clean and
> pressed. Jack looks around the room and sees that it is in perfect
> order, Spotlessly clean. So is the rest of the house. He takes the
> aspirins, cringes when he sees a huge black eye staring back at him in
> the bathroom mirror, and notices a note on the table: "Honey, breakfast
> is on the stove, I left early to go shopping--Love you!"
>
> He stumbles to the kitchen and sure enough, there is hot breakfast and
> the morning newspaper. His son is also at the table, eating. Jack
> asks,"son...what happened last night?"
> "Well, you came home after 3 A.M.., drunk and out of your mind. You
> broke some furniture, puked in the hallway, and got that black eye when
> you ran into the door."
>
> "So, why is everything in such perfect order, so clean, I have a rose,
> and breakfast is on the table waiting for me?"
>
> His son replies, "Oh THAT!... Mom dragged you to the bedroom, and when
> she tried to take your pants off, you screamed, "Leave me alone, lady,
> I'm married!"
>
>
> Broken furniture - $85.26
> Hot Breakfast - $4.20
> Red Rose bud -$3.00
> Two Aspirins -$.38
> Saying the right thing, at the right time.........Priceless
Jack wakes up at home with a huge hangover he can't believe. He forces
> himself to open his eyes, and the first thing he sees is a couple of
> aspirins next to a glass of water on the side table. And, next to them,
> a single red rose!
> Jack sits down and sees his clothing in front of him, all clean and
> pressed. Jack looks around the room and sees that it is in perfect
> order, Spotlessly clean. So is the rest of the house. He takes the
> aspirins, cringes when he sees a huge black eye staring back at him in
> the bathroom mirror, and notices a note on the table: "Honey, breakfast
> is on the stove, I left early to go shopping--Love you!"
>
> He stumbles to the kitchen and sure enough, there is hot breakfast and
> the morning newspaper. His son is also at the table, eating. Jack
> asks,"son...what happened last night?"
> "Well, you came home after 3 A.M.., drunk and out of your mind. You
> broke some furniture, puked in the hallway, and got that black eye when
> you ran into the door."
>
> "So, why is everything in such perfect order, so clean, I have a rose,
> and breakfast is on the table waiting for me?"
>
> His son replies, "Oh THAT!... Mom dragged you to the bedroom, and when
> she tried to take your pants off, you screamed, "Leave me alone, lady,
> I'm married!"
>
>
> Broken furniture - $85.26
> Hot Breakfast - $4.20
> Red Rose bud -$3.00
> Two Aspirins -$.38
> Saying the right thing, at the right time.........Priceless
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: over yonder
Posts: 1,548
StandingStrong.....Excellent post. REALITY
Let me add, A's are more likely to have one night stands, but if drunk, mostly sex is sex. nothing more. Some done in blackouts and never ever remembered unless someone jokes about it the next day in a bar. Then they wonder, prob deciede nothing happened and whoever is just being funny, Very sad. Or good they don't remember???
We all know the wonderful so called normal families, wher the male is having an affair. and the wife never knows. It is said, the wife always knows or suspects. Not always, never crosses the mind of those with a church going spouse.
I have been to conventions (not AA) where the good ol boys under the influence are trying to pick up females, females doing the same.
Our world is full of it.
Seems to me working closely together like Dr. and Nurse is highest risk. And they are prob not A's.
I add because I think it is good to face reality. SOME PEOPLE WOULD NEVER EVER CHEAT, BUT ONLY GOD KNOWS WHICH ONES. I was never oversexed. wanted men to be a brother type. but yes, I cheated once. Was harmless fun flirting to begin. Well, doesn't always stay just that. No reason for it.
My hubby was a bar rm drinker, I knew the bar scene so I always just hoped he wld be too busy BS.ing to flirt. or that no females were in there without their spouse.
An A friend of mine said he set out each eve to get sex, but got too drunk and passed out befor anything happened. i hoped for that too.
Once we accept the risk, it is easier to cope, I would not trust a non A male at all.
Just my slant. just my thoughts.
Good topic, as prob on everyones mind. Nothing is set in concrete.
Enough
Let me add, A's are more likely to have one night stands, but if drunk, mostly sex is sex. nothing more. Some done in blackouts and never ever remembered unless someone jokes about it the next day in a bar. Then they wonder, prob deciede nothing happened and whoever is just being funny, Very sad. Or good they don't remember???
We all know the wonderful so called normal families, wher the male is having an affair. and the wife never knows. It is said, the wife always knows or suspects. Not always, never crosses the mind of those with a church going spouse.
I have been to conventions (not AA) where the good ol boys under the influence are trying to pick up females, females doing the same.
Our world is full of it.
Seems to me working closely together like Dr. and Nurse is highest risk. And they are prob not A's.
I add because I think it is good to face reality. SOME PEOPLE WOULD NEVER EVER CHEAT, BUT ONLY GOD KNOWS WHICH ONES. I was never oversexed. wanted men to be a brother type. but yes, I cheated once. Was harmless fun flirting to begin. Well, doesn't always stay just that. No reason for it.
My hubby was a bar rm drinker, I knew the bar scene so I always just hoped he wld be too busy BS.ing to flirt. or that no females were in there without their spouse.
An A friend of mine said he set out each eve to get sex, but got too drunk and passed out befor anything happened. i hoped for that too.
Once we accept the risk, it is easier to cope, I would not trust a non A male at all.
Just my slant. just my thoughts.
Good topic, as prob on everyones mind. Nothing is set in concrete.
Enough
Thanks sdp!
Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: houston, tx
Posts: 323
While I would never condone an affair, I can see someone living with an active alcoholic would suseptable to one if she meet someone kind and caring while her spouse was being a drunk and a jerk... But this rarely happens. It is usually the selfish drunk or sober selfish exdrunk doing the cheating. Face it the alcoholic drunk or sober has had whole life revovling around that fact that he must get that next drink- or if sober -he must get thru one more day without that drink. As one person put it sometimes the only thing the recovered alcoholic accomplishes in life is staying sober. Everything else gets left behinds. This is very hard on the family and friends.dax
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: houston texas
Posts: 7
Alls not the same
If I had an afair with my secretery and my wife found out about it she would naturaly be devistated. If I told her it was over but I have decided to keep my secretary, work with her every day and have learned to be just freiends with her my wife would still never feel comfortable and would probubly question my motives.
With that said, my wife who is an alcoholic and is haveing an ongoing affair with a man at her AA meetings, jurnals constantly about him in every detail and also jurnals about how much she dislicks me. I have even caught her lying about not being at the same meeting with him and what she writes in her jurnals. SHe is told by her sponcer and other new found friends in her group that this is very natural and she sould just try to work on it but I will have to fend for myself on how I feel about it. She is also told that she sould not go to other meetings but should work on the problem and become freinds in a healthy way with this fellow. She has told me if she goes to another meeting she will simply find another man but nothing she does has anything to do with me, it is part of the sickness.
Am I missing something here? It is important to know I have 18 years of subriety over my drug addition thry AA and at no time was I ever unfaithful to my wife in thought word or dead to include the entire 25 years we have been warried.
It is also important to understand she has had mutiple affairs with other men over the last 6 months. Remenber she has only been sober for 45 days but tells me what she is doing now is different and just something that is going to happen.
She has told this fellow that in 6 months she would concider being with him as opposed to me and writes it in her journal frequently (yes I have read it).
Again she quite coldly says her sponcer and freinds tell her she has to work on but not to get into with me or make any decitions for her first year. So I am to just simply wait, get help and understand?
Whats wrong with this picture!?
Sorry for the spelling......have been suffering over this for 6 months now...
With that said, my wife who is an alcoholic and is haveing an ongoing affair with a man at her AA meetings, jurnals constantly about him in every detail and also jurnals about how much she dislicks me. I have even caught her lying about not being at the same meeting with him and what she writes in her jurnals. SHe is told by her sponcer and other new found friends in her group that this is very natural and she sould just try to work on it but I will have to fend for myself on how I feel about it. She is also told that she sould not go to other meetings but should work on the problem and become freinds in a healthy way with this fellow. She has told me if she goes to another meeting she will simply find another man but nothing she does has anything to do with me, it is part of the sickness.
Am I missing something here? It is important to know I have 18 years of subriety over my drug addition thry AA and at no time was I ever unfaithful to my wife in thought word or dead to include the entire 25 years we have been warried.
It is also important to understand she has had mutiple affairs with other men over the last 6 months. Remenber she has only been sober for 45 days but tells me what she is doing now is different and just something that is going to happen.
She has told this fellow that in 6 months she would concider being with him as opposed to me and writes it in her journal frequently (yes I have read it).
Again she quite coldly says her sponcer and freinds tell her she has to work on but not to get into with me or make any decitions for her first year. So I am to just simply wait, get help and understand?
Whats wrong with this picture!?
Sorry for the spelling......have been suffering over this for 6 months now...
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Hello dsk, and welcome to SR. 
I can relate to your feelings a little because my wife left me after 19yrs over her affairs with other guys. If you start a new thread in this forum you'll get a lot of people answering you because it will be easier to find your post in it's own thread.
Take a few minute to read thru the threads here and you'll see that many of us are going thru this.
Welcome again
Mike :-)
I can relate to your feelings a little because my wife left me after 19yrs over her affairs with other guys. If you start a new thread in this forum you'll get a lot of people answering you because it will be easier to find your post in it's own thread.
Take a few minute to read thru the threads here and you'll see that many of us are going thru this.
Welcome again
Mike :-)
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: houston texas
Posts: 7
Mike, new at this. Hope this is the right thread. I could realy use some help here. Loosing hope........did I mention we have two children. Why is it so hard to get info on 13-stepping on any of the AA sites. Its like its a dirty little secret. I was not aware of this when I was going.....
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