Infidelity Inquiry

Old 01-26-2005, 12:54 PM
  # 41 (permalink)  
Jeri N
 
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Right on, Chy! I don't want to be miserable in recovery, how about you? It's gotta be different or I may as well go back to the way I was before "miserable". Resentment is my number one offender. "Normal" people are afforded that luxury, but I'm not. Thanks for the reminder.

Ami
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Old 01-26-2005, 01:41 PM
  # 42 (permalink)  
Acting not reacting
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I alwaysread peoples upset and maybe rude posts on this board and think...geez they are crabby.... hmmmm.

OK, well I hope I dont really make anyone mad...but here it is.
I am not TRYING to be miserable and for those who may feel that, I am sorry to have given you that impression. I am not harboring resentment, but DEALING with the pain that others addictions have caused me. I do not lie to those who love me nor do I have an addiction that causes myself and others pain. I am not the one who drinks so much that I hit people and ask them what happened to their face the next day bc I am so drunk I cant remember. I am not the one who stomps on cell phones and pulls phones out of walls to avoid my partner calling the police.

I did not ask for alcoholic parents, breeding false thinking think that relationships with abusive alcoholic mates is normal. I realize that politicians and actors cheat, but those people are not involved in my life and did not directly hurt me.
I am tired of feeling like I am doing something wrong to have encouraged this sort of behavior and sick of people telling me to worry about myself. I do not know how to worry about myself. when the only thing you know how to do is worry about others, that IS HOW you worry about yourself. I think it is becoming increasingly apparent that I have more issues than the realm of this board encompasses. I was in hopes that I could find some relief here, and I have...and for that and everyone who has encouraged, I thank you. I have also found some small minded people who expect me to smile and say the serenity prayer and then I will be fine. I am not fine, and not happy. I am incredibly insecure and scared most of the time about most everything, including but CERTAINLY not limited to being cheated on. I have been asked by a doctor if I would consider taking valium on a regular basis, which I suspect may help, but because of my familys propensity for addiction along with my SO's addiction, and my weak position now, I voted against. I never meant for my question to bring about so much controversy and for that I am sorry. But, I am not sorry for asking of questioning the behavior of an addict, a liar, and a man who thinks he is tough becuase he is drunk and he is always right.
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Old 01-26-2005, 02:19 PM
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Good post Chy......

I think anyone can,or will cheat under certain conditions. We just haven't been in that place. So, "but for the Grace of God ". Life sometimes makes us crazy, or sometimes boredom.

I think alcohol causes us to do strange things, Often we hear of "alcoholic insanity". I have been there, done that. Not sex, but other idiotic things. I could have killed self or others, or broken bones. I am a born devout coward, but with alcohol all bets are off.

I think I accepted that an alcoholic will have one night stands, if the right person shows up at the right time. I just hoped the bar was full of good ol boys telling lies and jokes, or he was too drunk to follow it up. IMHO I was more sickened by the many ministers that did not drink and had affairs. Affairs of the heart are the most dangerous. I have always heard how men think of sex every few min. So it seems a fact of life. I know there are exceptions, Am hoping most are exceptions. I just accept things happen, wheather alcoholic or nice neighbor's next door with great marriage. Thankful each day they are still alive, as long as alive things can be worked out lots of times.
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Old 01-26-2005, 02:28 PM
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Elizabeth,
I hope I didn't offend you. I promise you, honey, I understand. Been in this addiction thing a long time. Nobody expects you to just smile and look the other way. You deserve to be real. You have been hurt, we all have. Every single thing you can imagine and then some (except physical abuse). It's okay to feel these things and nobody thinks you shouldn't. For 4 months (from Sept 04 - Dec 04) I was on the verge of a nervous breakdown. Read some of my first posts. Most of the time I didn't even post, I just read to see if anybody could think of a way I could help my husband and the dad of my girls. My counselor was very concerned. I asked my husband to leave 9/3/04, my daughter turned 18 9/18/04, I turned 42 9/24/04, the next few weeks were pretty quiet except the 7:30am phone calls to my 6 year old every day and not a word to me, Halloween activities just me and my 6 year old, November 12th trip to the ER thinking he was dead from an overdose (just a close call), then 1 week in rapid detox and out again doing more of the same, Thanksgiving 7:30 am phone call to the girls and forcing myself to get up, get dressed and go to my mom's for the day. December 8th my 24th anniversary ( no call, no nothing), I was barely functioning and getting to work with red face and puffy eyes kids worried, 6 year old scared. December 17th his birthday, called him for the 6 yr old to say happy birthday daddy, left message no call back until 2 days later. Christmas Dec 25th the girls went for about 2 hrs to bring him his present and visit, Jan 11th he was in the hospital with pneumonia, today Jan 26th I met with an attorney to find out about divorce (first time in my whole married life). I understand worry, believe me. I know you have to grieve and feel these feelings. I know that your mind races and you dream and can't rest. I know that you probably try to figure out exactly what happens next. I know you are afraid. Been there. Sometimes we become sicker than our alcoholics and addicts because of the torment and suffering we endure. We lose who we are. We care more about them than we do ourselves. It's about trying to give to someone what we don't have anymore. Honey, you are probably so empty right now. Your question was a good one, unfortunately it taps a very sensitive area for many of us. Fortunately, though some of us are working through that pain to get to the other side and I believe that is the message all of us intended. You have to be ready to stop worrying about things you can't do anything about. You have to try to change what you can (You) and give to God those things you can't. You will when you're ready and we'll listen until you are. No judgement, no sarcasm, pure love based on a common ground. Some of us have walked where you are right now, some of us haven't gotten there yet and some of us are way beyond that place; but our ground is definitely common. Just like at live meetings - take what you need and leave the rest. That's okay too. I will pray for you Elizabeth. You are a strong person for having been through your family of origin in addiction and now your significant other. You might consider seeing a counselor (woman) who specialized in families of addicts/alcoholics. My counselor has been sober about 17 years, is my age and suffered many years in active addiction with her parents even after she was clean and sober. Since I met her 5 years ago, she gave up a teaching career to go back to school and get her masters in addiction therapy because she wanted to give back some of what she has gained through the AA/Alanon program and the 12 step process. I am in recovery, but I'm currently on an antidepressant because I was in a severe depression after I asked my husband to leave which continued to get worse. This was diagnosed by my medical doctor and is being managed bi monthly. You should never be sorry about asking questions about the behavior of an addict. The problem is we have all been manipulated, lied to and made wrong over and over and some of us can't talk about these things yet without emotion. The emotion won't always be this raw and it won't always feel this way. Everything changes, when we allow it. I hope that this encourages you to stick around. If you'd like to send me a personal message I'd be happy to respond.
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Old 01-26-2005, 03:40 PM
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elizabeth and amitiredenuff - what can I say? Your posts have touched me more than any I have ever read on here. I am so sorry to hear of the terrible pain you have both suffered. I hope you both keep coming back here - for your sakes and ours.

On the subject of infidelity, that is the one boundary that I had before I ever came into al-anon. If someone was to cheat on me, that was it. End of story. Over the past year, I have realised that I had virtually no other boundaries. Through al-anon and counselling, I have discovered that the only way for me to be me, to be happy and to have a healthy relationship in the future is to have healthy, intact boundaries. I have no control over someones actions, however, I have total control over my response to that situation. So, if I am cheated on, I will walk away.

I don't think all alcoholics cheat. However, I do think that there is a certain lack of judgement, along with a lack of self worth, that may increase the propensity to cheat. For me, that is no excuse.

I am sorry to hear that so many of you are suffering or have suffered because of the actions of another. We are all worth more than that.

Love

Minnie
xxx
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Old 01-26-2005, 11:58 PM
  # 46 (permalink)  
Acting not reacting
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OK, I am really sorry everyone...got way too worked up over something I can't control even if it is happening. I am so sorry to have given the impression that I don't value each and everyone of the comments made here. While I am not in the excuse business, I (like many I am sure) work two jobs to pay the bills I racked up and unfortunately live with both of my actively drinking parents. So, at times I just lose all sense of decency and am truly apologetic and hope I have not hurt anyone. I did go to a therapist this evening and will continue to do so. Thank you all and I look forward to getting better. Whether or not he does.
Love
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Old 01-27-2005, 10:38 AM
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Dax, and jane,

Well Dax, I can express the way i feel better than Chy. I just think it is a diservice to blame the group. Jane, maybe I missed something but why would your recovering A be hanging out in bars....??
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Old 01-27-2005, 11:04 AM
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Chy
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Originally Posted by elizabeth1979
Thank you all and I look forward to getting better. Whether or not he does.
Love
That a girl!
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Old 01-27-2005, 11:32 AM
  # 49 (permalink)  
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(((elizabeth)))
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Old 01-27-2005, 04:55 PM
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ahcb- Well I think it is a dis service to paint a completley rosey picture of the AA and alanon program. Cheating does go on - more so because you have emotionally sick people finding comfort wiith other very sick people- all with a common problem to discuss. I wish some alanon had warned me that the alcoholic can get hooked on the program itself- one addiction for a another- although AA would be the better choice by far. You can't die going to AA but you can wreak your family life by forsaking your family for the AA family group. And yes this certainly does happen. dax
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Old 01-27-2005, 05:46 PM
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Hello, my name is Diana and I am an alcoholic/addict.

I was married for 20 years to a very emotionally and verbally abusive non A. Did I ever cheat? NO WAY.......Did he? Absolutely!

It is true that while under the influence our guards are down, and we could do things we wouldn't even consider while sober. However, that being said, some of us do have morals in place whether we are under the influence or not. I may have the disease of addiction, but I do not suffer the disease of immorality.

I understand both sides in this discussion. Having been cheated on I understand concerns that some of you express, and I do feel for you. I think we are categorizing here and placing "labels" on A's. Do all men cheat? Of course not!
Do all women cheat? Of course not!
Do all A's cheat? Of course not!

The theory that all recovering A's protect each other with an unspoken pact about others who cheat in recovery is absolutely ludicrous.

My thoughts and prayers go out to all who are hurting because of a cheating spouse or drinking/using spouse.

God Speed
Diana
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Old 01-27-2005, 05:54 PM
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You couldn't have said that better "Best" punkinpie
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Old 01-28-2005, 08:39 AM
  # 53 (permalink)  
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Well it is my experience of 26 years in and around program people- they do cover for each other. They excuse looking the other way when unacceptable behavior by the excuse of 'working their own program and not interfering with anyone workingh theirs- even if unacceptable things go on. Our counselor, also in AA. will not go to a certain closed club because so much unacceptable behavior goes on there. She said she has several couples with the same problem- a recovered alcoholic cheating with someone in the program. In 9 years no one ever gave me a hint . But EVREYONE knew what GOOD friends my husband and this women were. Remember AA recommends woman only and men only restionships. yeah. dax
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Old 01-28-2005, 09:40 AM
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Even though we had many problems in our marriage, I trusted my AH completely. We were together 25 years. Then he had an episode and I had to ask him to leave until he got help before he hurt me or one of our kids again. During the time I thought he was trying to get himself together he was living with his best friends wife, his best friend was working out of town. She had a drinking problem also. During this time they began an affair. Last July she divorced his best friend and they are now living together in La. Even with his drinking problem I never would have believed he would have done something like that. He and I are still married. He is not the person that I met and fell in love with 26 years ago, but I can't say that I don't still love the person he was.

No, I don't believe that all A's cheat. I don't know what the reason is for the ones who do.
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Old 01-28-2005, 11:08 AM
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Dax,

First I think your premise of them being "emotionally sick people" is incorrect. Some? yes I am sure some are, but all? No. My only point is that to say that AA is a breeding ground of infidelity or those that belong are more prone to cheat is, in my mind incorrect. Many A's in recovery are aware, for the first time the pain they have caused for themselves and family and would not compound it with cheating.

Is that all would not? No, of course there are some who do. It is not the majority. Also to say I paint AA or alanon with a rosey brush is off the mark. It is like saying I paint a cancer ward that way. Those institutions may be alot of things but rosey is not one of them. If my wife decides, or I decide to have an affair It would be easy to say itwas AA or the booze, who would argue? But it does not mean it is true.

My message is that your description of the programs can actually help people decide to stay away from the programs they desperatley need by making them think the worst. Folks if your spouse,or bf,or gf has a problem and needs to go, ENCOURAGE them. Worry about what might happen when it actually happens. An affair in the future (for them or you) is a possibility, living now with a drunk is REALITY. Which do you want to worry about first.....
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Old 01-28-2005, 11:31 AM
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achb...
At first I didn't want to get caught up in this thing you and Dax have going on....but I must admit all this talk about cheating with AA members is starting to get to me. My recently sober ABF has been attending a 10:30am meeting everyday this week. He has been leaving 10 minutes earlier than usual the last day or two, instead of me thinking he is just anxious to get to the meeting, I assume he is anxious to get there to see "someone." I have had serious reservations about his fidelity in the past so all of this talk about it happening "so frequently" in AA is a bit unnerving for me. You are right Ahcb, I'd rather worry about the possiblity of an affair when and if it happens and I really should be encouraging him in his quest. Life is much happier with him sober than drunk in a bar with countless opportunities available to him when he is not in a good frame of mind.
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Old 01-28-2005, 12:08 PM
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Pmaslan,

My wife attends a minumum of two but sometimes 3 a week. She did her 90 meetings in 90 days. In the begining I went to some of the meetings with her for support. Over time that was no longer needed. I also recall wondering why is she leaving a few minutes early, and wondering that more than once. Over time, as she kept going, and began talking (not alot) about her feelings and her views i worried less. I realized she was doing what she had to do for her and her staying well. Now it is not always easy, and I get frustrated sometimes over the meetings, her having to go etc. BUT, when you consider the alternatives I say GO.

If i am a drunk and at a bar, with drunk woman there (for this to work for me they have to be blotto) it is much easier to "slip" and find yourself in a place you rather not be. This SHOULD NOT BE something you are thinking about when they are trying to hold it together sober. Also it is unfair, do we go from saying, you have a problem get help, you have a problem get help directly to your cheating, your cheating.

We yell get help, and now dont trust them sober! If that was directed at you how would you reaCT? "YOU DONT TRUST ME WHEN IM DRINKNG, OR WHEN IM SOBER???

Sober is happier, healthier, but not perfect. Alot of hurt and anger gets worked on and out. There is enough to work on without worrying about leaving ten minutes early to meet someone. Cheating is not an issue, dont make it one. Think of all the things he is going through not just for him but for you. Encourage him. If someday the worst happens well then it was meant to be. It wasnt AA's fault. Stay positive
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Old 01-28-2005, 12:17 PM
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Smile

thanks.....
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Old 01-28-2005, 02:07 PM
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ahcb....Good explaination. Thanks for your thinking and posting.
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Old 01-28-2005, 02:27 PM
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Elizabeth, You don't have to be sorry. You have posted a thread that is a very "hot" topic obvoiusly! You have given alot of people a chance to talk about a very difficult subject. To be cheated on is a very humilating, heart breaking, gut wrenching I want to puke my guts out event. Possibly this post has given many of us a chance to talk about it, as we may not be able to face it with our friends and family. You may or may not know my husband of 23 years has just gone to prison. He has cheated on me several times. I am sure I will hear and find out about more of his "adventures" as he is out of the picture. Just for a start I have his cell phone and he has some phone #s that I am curious about. I probably should be nice and let them know he is in prison HA. The thought has crossed my mind as I wonder if he will be able to charm the female guards. BLAH! THANK YOU for having the courage to post on this subject. Take Care
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