Quest for knowledge.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
Quest for knowledge.
One thing leads to another...
I've heard so much here that's been priceless to know, I've come to understand things and I can't express how grateful I am for everyone's input. Some things here have raised other questions for me. Alcoholism as a disease is one of them, I started to wonder if WHO (World Health Organisation) recognised it as a disease, if DSM IV -TR (Mental Health diagnosis) recognised it as a disease, or a disorder, or a condition because they all have different meanings. The problem is on the internet large 'chunks' of info are given without reference and in searching for info there's a tendency to be flooded with opinion. I want to know what evidence lies behind those opinions, I want to know what is disputed and what isn't, I want to learn.
Why does it matter?
I don't know yet, I don't know whether I will ever need what I learn, I don't know whether it will matter at all, I just know it could. I lost my faith in recieved knowledge years ago, both in it's accuracy and it's validity. Fresh out from Uni I was involved in using Applied Behavioural Analysis to treat autism. There was a time that feels much like now with alcoholism - a nagging feeling that some things don't add up - that I didn't really understand, a feeling which was shared (re-autism) by the researchers I had the most respect for.
It mattered because we had to understand our own behaviour and actions, it mattered because we on occassion were advocates for methods and on occassion individual children. The last time I used what I learned then certainly mattered. The Manager of a children's home for autistic kids was giving a lecture on autism - she said autistic children were unable to make emotional bonds. I could raise and reference the difference between 'displaying' emotional bonds and 'having' emotional bonds. the lecture was being given to future carers and I believe updating her science (she was about 20 years behind despite her position) had a significant effect. Especially judging by the comments I recieved from the carers.
I don't know yet how, when, why or even if learning about alcoholism might help - but I rather find that out with the information than without it. So where do I go for information?
Faith in Science.
The first thing I learned was the difference between a book and a journal, to publish a book you need to persuade a publisher it will sell - nothing more, you might get sued if it's false but written as fact, but that's your problem - if it sells it'll go into print. Journals are different, the older the better but to be published in a journal you have to reach a standard - you HAVE to reference, they WILL be checked, you HAVE to have the evidence you claim to have. 'The Lancet' doesn't sell by writing what people want to read - it sells by publishing science.
Faith in science is something you hear on the TV, something debated between people as wise or unwise. Faith in science is NOT faith in it's conclusions, in that sense science has no faith in itself. Faith in science is about it's rules and methods. Within science whatever you think or write WILL be challenged, what others think and write SHOULD be challenged. Science is the evolution of ideas and theories through a process of natural selection. Science expects it's own views to change. Understanding the science of anything is the epitemy of detachment, once in the thick of journal debates the pointlessness of being emotionally attached to a single viewpoint becomes obvious - views will change.
So why write this here?
Because I've lost my faith in 'experts', 'recieved knowledge', and 'popular science', but not because of an obsession with alcoholism, it was lost years ago. I research everything that matters to me, whether it be the law or science and have done for years. Without that faith the world does feel different and I ned to find evidence in order to believe.
Because no journal can tell me what people here know, because I love my alcoholic husband and I know learning will be hard. The questions I want to ask aren't for an essay, I want to know things like who said 'Alcoholism is a progressive and often fatal disease' but not to debate it just for marks on the end of a paper. As I look for the evidence I know it will be there and I know it'll hurt. I've written this here because I want to know your opinion of me undertaking it. I want the opinions of people who love an alcoholic.
I've heard so much here that's been priceless to know, I've come to understand things and I can't express how grateful I am for everyone's input. Some things here have raised other questions for me. Alcoholism as a disease is one of them, I started to wonder if WHO (World Health Organisation) recognised it as a disease, if DSM IV -TR (Mental Health diagnosis) recognised it as a disease, or a disorder, or a condition because they all have different meanings. The problem is on the internet large 'chunks' of info are given without reference and in searching for info there's a tendency to be flooded with opinion. I want to know what evidence lies behind those opinions, I want to know what is disputed and what isn't, I want to learn.
Why does it matter?
I don't know yet, I don't know whether I will ever need what I learn, I don't know whether it will matter at all, I just know it could. I lost my faith in recieved knowledge years ago, both in it's accuracy and it's validity. Fresh out from Uni I was involved in using Applied Behavioural Analysis to treat autism. There was a time that feels much like now with alcoholism - a nagging feeling that some things don't add up - that I didn't really understand, a feeling which was shared (re-autism) by the researchers I had the most respect for.
It mattered because we had to understand our own behaviour and actions, it mattered because we on occassion were advocates for methods and on occassion individual children. The last time I used what I learned then certainly mattered. The Manager of a children's home for autistic kids was giving a lecture on autism - she said autistic children were unable to make emotional bonds. I could raise and reference the difference between 'displaying' emotional bonds and 'having' emotional bonds. the lecture was being given to future carers and I believe updating her science (she was about 20 years behind despite her position) had a significant effect. Especially judging by the comments I recieved from the carers.
I don't know yet how, when, why or even if learning about alcoholism might help - but I rather find that out with the information than without it. So where do I go for information?
Faith in Science.
The first thing I learned was the difference between a book and a journal, to publish a book you need to persuade a publisher it will sell - nothing more, you might get sued if it's false but written as fact, but that's your problem - if it sells it'll go into print. Journals are different, the older the better but to be published in a journal you have to reach a standard - you HAVE to reference, they WILL be checked, you HAVE to have the evidence you claim to have. 'The Lancet' doesn't sell by writing what people want to read - it sells by publishing science.
Faith in science is something you hear on the TV, something debated between people as wise or unwise. Faith in science is NOT faith in it's conclusions, in that sense science has no faith in itself. Faith in science is about it's rules and methods. Within science whatever you think or write WILL be challenged, what others think and write SHOULD be challenged. Science is the evolution of ideas and theories through a process of natural selection. Science expects it's own views to change. Understanding the science of anything is the epitemy of detachment, once in the thick of journal debates the pointlessness of being emotionally attached to a single viewpoint becomes obvious - views will change.
So why write this here?
Because I've lost my faith in 'experts', 'recieved knowledge', and 'popular science', but not because of an obsession with alcoholism, it was lost years ago. I research everything that matters to me, whether it be the law or science and have done for years. Without that faith the world does feel different and I ned to find evidence in order to believe.
Because no journal can tell me what people here know, because I love my alcoholic husband and I know learning will be hard. The questions I want to ask aren't for an essay, I want to know things like who said 'Alcoholism is a progressive and often fatal disease' but not to debate it just for marks on the end of a paper. As I look for the evidence I know it will be there and I know it'll hurt. I've written this here because I want to know your opinion of me undertaking it. I want the opinions of people who love an alcoholic.
Dancing To My Own Beat
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: I don't know what kind of state I'm in
Posts: 1,326
Back in 1939, The Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous was written by about 100 drunks who had stayed sober for what at that time was an amazing length of time for drunks in their conditions. Their description of the alcoholic was one of a person with a progressive and if untreated, fatal disease. I am not sure this was the first publishing of alcoholism as a disease, but because most doctors at the time thought of alcoholism as a hopeless cause, not much research was done. Alcoholics were thought to be doomed, except for a few unexplained cases. Of course they were only looking at severe end stage cases that had to be institutionalized. Since the beginning of AA, and the growth of an organization of sober drunks, there has been much more research. Even today, there is no known cure.
Resently, there was a paper done that explained the phenomenon of craving. I have just heard about this, so I haven't had an opportunity to search out the facts of it.
Many people disagree with the "disease" theory. Many still think that it is a moral issue, and that enough will power can overcome it. There are organizations that promote other forms of recovery that don't veiw alcoholism in the same way. SMART recovery is one example. Because I have no experience with alternative recovery programs, I don't know how well they work.
Their is a lot of information and opinions on the internet about alcoholism. I have read a lot, and it is very interesting. The bad thing about alcoholism, if it is a disease, is that they can't biopsy it to see if someone really has it, and they can't cut it out or zap someone to cure it.
Good luck in your fact finding search. There are a lot of opinions out there along with the facts. I have found it interesting, but not neccessary to do a little searching myself. Hugs, Magic
Resently, there was a paper done that explained the phenomenon of craving. I have just heard about this, so I haven't had an opportunity to search out the facts of it.
Many people disagree with the "disease" theory. Many still think that it is a moral issue, and that enough will power can overcome it. There are organizations that promote other forms of recovery that don't veiw alcoholism in the same way. SMART recovery is one example. Because I have no experience with alternative recovery programs, I don't know how well they work.
Their is a lot of information and opinions on the internet about alcoholism. I have read a lot, and it is very interesting. The bad thing about alcoholism, if it is a disease, is that they can't biopsy it to see if someone really has it, and they can't cut it out or zap someone to cure it.
Good luck in your fact finding search. There are a lot of opinions out there along with the facts. I have found it interesting, but not neccessary to do a little searching myself. Hugs, Magic
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
Back in 1939, The Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous was written by about 100 drunks who had stayed sober for what at that time was an amazing length of time for drunks in their conditions. Their description of the alcoholic was one of a person with a progressive and if untreated, fatal disease.
In a very odd way I'm trying to follow their path, to look carefully and critically at the accepted norm.
My money (if betting) would be that it's a disease, I just want to know what parts of this are debated - if any.
My money would be that's it's chronic - no cure, progressive and yes, often fatal. I just want to know if that's debated too, to know what people have found and why they think that.
This forum is real for what it is - a place of enormous support, experience and friendship, all of which counts because I'm still very human. I'm just a human that learned to distrust 'facts' until I know why they came to be. Facts have such a horrible habit of changing! From what you said about the events of 1939 I guess I'm not the first one to think that! The big difference is that I'll never use what I learn for any real good except to make me more comfortable in my understanding.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Equus,
Start your search at the American Medical Association. The keywords you want are "lipid-soluble", "endorphin" and "dependency". Lipid-soluble is a chemical that is easily absorbed by the brain. A large number of lipid soluble chemicals are analogues of endorphins, which means they replace the natural endorphins of the brain. In the presence of these analouges, the endorphin producing cells of the brain shut down and eventually die. In the absence of endorphins a human being experiences stress, anxiety, and all the other symptoms of withdrawl.
The level of lipid-solubility determines how addictive a chemical is. Nicotine is at the top of the list.
The "disease" lies in the resilience of the brain's own endorphin producing cells. Some people have kick-a$$ cells that won't die. They can abuse chemicals for years and the day they quit their own cells start up and they have no withdrawal or addiction. other people have sensitive cells that roll over and die at the first challenge. These are the folks that get dependent from the very first time and can never quit.
Most people fall somewhere in between.
Sedatives such as Valium and Librium are lipid-soluble, which is why they are prescribed to addicts in order to reduce the intensity of withdrawl.
Mike :-)
Start your search at the American Medical Association. The keywords you want are "lipid-soluble", "endorphin" and "dependency". Lipid-soluble is a chemical that is easily absorbed by the brain. A large number of lipid soluble chemicals are analogues of endorphins, which means they replace the natural endorphins of the brain. In the presence of these analouges, the endorphin producing cells of the brain shut down and eventually die. In the absence of endorphins a human being experiences stress, anxiety, and all the other symptoms of withdrawl.
The level of lipid-solubility determines how addictive a chemical is. Nicotine is at the top of the list.
The "disease" lies in the resilience of the brain's own endorphin producing cells. Some people have kick-a$$ cells that won't die. They can abuse chemicals for years and the day they quit their own cells start up and they have no withdrawal or addiction. other people have sensitive cells that roll over and die at the first challenge. These are the folks that get dependent from the very first time and can never quit.
Most people fall somewhere in between.
Sedatives such as Valium and Librium are lipid-soluble, which is why they are prescribed to addicts in order to reduce the intensity of withdrawl.
Mike :-)
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
My friend (who's a nurse) sent me this link an hour ago:
NIAAA - Buckets of research!!
I've been glued to my screen since!! All I can say is WOW!!! WOW!! I'm dipping in an out of different articles so fast I'm not really taking them in yet, but I'm finding what's there....
WOW!!! I'm finding stuff out and some of it's very encouraging. I'm reading about the effects of severity on motivation to change and the effects of motivation on success. I need this - I need to know what's there.
NIAAA - Buckets of research!!
I've been glued to my screen since!! All I can say is WOW!!! WOW!! I'm dipping in an out of different articles so fast I'm not really taking them in yet, but I'm finding what's there....
WOW!!! I'm finding stuff out and some of it's very encouraging. I'm reading about the effects of severity on motivation to change and the effects of motivation on success. I need this - I need to know what's there.
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