equus

There's no point in chalking up days anymore, he drank on Boxing day, he drank the day before NY's eve. He wants to try drinking occasionally now.

I heard his reasoning - all of it. The fact it nearly killed him means he 's safe (because he won't let that happen again), the fact it's taken years of his life away means I should trust his logic, after all he's the expert, the fact that it crept up so quickly when he tried social drinking means I should feel safe (he says he's learned from that), that he got blasted in Tuscanny means it's safe because he didn't drink when he got home (a least not for over a week). It goes on and on, to him EVERYTHING proves it's ok, drinking, not drinking EVERYTHING.

So now he wants to drink occasionally but the occasions get closer together, months then weeks, now I think it'll be every week. I don't know what next, he doesn't drink every night, he doesn't get blasted day after day after one drink, he's drinking much less than your average person - but his logic stays the same, to me it's alcoholic logic!!

He asked if I trusted him and I said yes but I don't trust alcohol with him. He agreed and said neither does he - I know that together with his reasoning just doesn't make sense.

He hit his floor years ago, alcohol sent him completely crackers to the point he couldn't get out his own front door and he's slowly drank less not more. BUT what he has consistantly lacked is control, through all the years getting better (than he was) it's nibbled away at chunks of his life. Sometimes I swear the way he looks at a pint that he doesn't want it - but he's not really in control. I think he really did want to stop, I think maybe more than anything but now I feel he's heading back to regular drinking. I don't think he admits that to himself, looking in the mirror I think he truly believes in his batty logic..... 'one more try, it's safe, he won't ever let it get bad again'.

I'm torn - on the one hand I prepare for the worst and if it comes I believe in him that he'll fight his way through it, if the worst comes I think he will get help, he went for it in the past. On the other hand with each realisation he does pull back, maybe it'll be simply a case of him realising however little he drinks it creeps up.

I'm leaving it as his choice, right now that means to say - 'Ok try it but you know what I think'. He has accepted that I hold a different view to him about his drinking. He's offered to me to be the one in control but I've refused, he's a man not a boy and if I tell him he can't drink he'll never know for himself if it's the truth. So now, he's trying to drink 'occasionally'.

Seeing what people here go through my situation is so much easier, he's only drank 8 nights since October, first nearly 50 days with none, then - well just seeing 8 nights since December I know as always it's going up.

My problem is fear, my fear for him, my problem is that I remember how bad he got, my problem is that I never worried for his liver, the way he was malnutrition or hypothermia would have killed him long before his liver had chance to pack up. People talk about functioning alcoholics, which he is now - but fullt ime drinking he was almost the polar opposite, all functioning stopped including eating and sleeping under cover!

I can accept that what will be will be, but the fear I find much harder.

mamasmitty

I understand how you feel! It's hard to watch someone you love distroy themselves. Especially when they are a good person! Please read my post "just checking". My AH drinks every day, and I find myself looking on web sites for liver problem signs and stuff like that. I hope it works out for you, but when my AH said he would stop drinking (except on the weekends) it lasted 4 days till the day before the weekend, and hasn't stopped since! ((((((HUG))))))

equus

My hubby did exactly that through months of last year. The only difference was that before he tried to keep it to weekends I had brought up the issue of control - limiting it was going to be a test of control and if he didn't manage to keep to it by Christmas he'd agreed he'd stop.

He stopped mid October because it blatantly wasn't working (trying to keep to 2 days a week) but the fact he managed then to stop for nearly 50 days made him feel more confident that he was in control - hence round two (yeah right - more like round 102!!). Maybe each time he does learn a little, obviously I hope he's just taking the wonkiest route to the same conclusion.

I believe I have to be VERY careful not to try and control it, he offers me lots of control regularly but I think his lack of self awareness is a MASSIVE issue and if I take over he won't learn to see his own actions objectively. I more frequently can guess what he will or won't do than he can - that goes for far more than drink!!

One thing I am sure of is that this is far more complex than easy stereotypes but then that doesn't surprise me, most things are!

mamasmitty

You are SO right! And that’s weird that you say you know what he will do before he does. I can always tell when my AH is going to go to the bar. He goes upstairs and brushes his teeth, combs his hair and tucks in his shirt. Then comes down stairs and hovers around like he is waiting for something. (Probably the nerve to say he is going) Frankly I find it comical. He's like a little kid afraid to ask his mommy something. Funny thing is, is I am glad when he goes. I can be free to BREATH a little!!! Ha! Ha! Sometimes I wonder if I should make a fuss about him going. Act pissed or something. Then I think if I do that, he won't go, and then I'll have to put up with him! That is probably enabeling I suppose!

cwohio

equus - good luck to you guys. i really think that most a's cannot go the "controlled" route. it just doesn't work for the majority.

i think most of us can identify with knowing what our a's will do before they even do it. i know i can! certain little mannerisms, etc. i think some of that comes from our focusing on THEM so much before we started our recovery. i really TRY not to even think about those things. had to remind myself last evening not to even bother - my ah had "taken a break from drinking" for 10 days and i'm sure he had something yesterday and had scold myself for starting to think to myself, "i knew it!".

mamasmitty - at least yours goes out to drink - mine is retired and is a closet drinker at home - arghhhh!

equus

Knowing what he'll do goes beyond the drink and I find it a really worrying thing. For example I know he hates wearing his glasses - I know because he doesn't wear them sometimes for weeks, even months despite getting very sore eyes and headaches. He started his new job without them and last night said he was going to have to start wearing them again, but this morning he took them in their case - not on his face!! When he is wearing them he does so all the time but I'd bet any money they're not on his face when he comes home.

If HE accepted that he doesn't like it, that childhood teasing left him very shy about them - maybe he would get contact lenses. But no, he doesn't see it like that. Of course I could be wrong but then how come I can see into the future? How come I know he won't be wearing them tonight?

If he didn't come up with 3001 other convoluted reasons for everything, if he was aware of himself, his own clues and hang ups, his own battle with drink - not just past but present, if he acknowledged the health issues he faces sober, then I would be much less concerned. Sometimes I could scream at him for just NOT looking after himself, not ever cutting himself any slack, not ever thinking he deserves any help.

I daren't try to control his drinking, compared to wearing glasses the drinking is dangerous - I daren't act to do anything that might stop him seeing his own behaviour - uncontrolled except by him.

Hearing his potty reasoning around how it's worth trying to drink again. Hearing his un-self aware, self bluffing confidence, and knowing he so desperately wants to believe what he's saying, that it's being said to convince himself not me, all of that makes me feel fear.

1stp2stp

I spoke with a very dear friend of mine who is an alcoholic and was very active at the time. HE was the one that said to me, "the al-anoner is always the first one to know when the alcoholic is going to drink before they even drink".
Instinct? Signs? Who knows, but I could always tell when we going into that hole about a month before it happened.

Aquiana

That "alcoholic logic" sounded so familiar it sounds like my abf could have read it off the screen. He said the exact same things to me when he decided to try social drinking again. It did not work for him, once he started he went down like a rock. What I've never been able to figure out is who the logic was directed at. Is it to justify it to us, or is it to justify it to themselves?

Zoey

equus.. Sounds like you are doing everything right. Wish you didn't have the fear, but I so understand that.
Have you read the AA Big Book?? It mentions we have an allergy to alcohol.
An allergy usually means one bite of something like choc or sweets and we can't stop.
i know that about me with lots of things including choc, sweets and alcohol.
Maybe to mention this if you have a friend or self who says if I take a bite I can't quit. I am addicted. Sounds harmless with choc etc. but deadly with alcohol.
Just plant a seed like off hand and not telling him he is allergic. Or has he been to AA meetings??? Then the other thing, he may fight that theory too.
I think he is going to "Get It" pretty soon. You keeping cool as you are doing is helping I can see. BEST TO YOU BOTH thelma

Gracey

My AH stopped drinking for six months.........he has now drank 7 or 8 times since October 22nd.......he has been trying since last April.....19th........

I do believe he cant handle life and alcohol was or is his medication......

The first step I am taking in letting go.......I am no longer going to mark off my calendar the days he decides not to give in to his addiction....WHY it is his addiction......

I was planning on leaving my husband if he drinks........I was trying to control the situation........

I am not saying that I am leaving or staying....because I really dont know what I am going to do....so I am going to quit threatening though........He dont believe me anyway.....

I have said it so often. My H told me that if it wasnt for me, he dont know where he would be..........he needs me to be the way that I am, he needs someone to control it for him.........Just recently I told him I give up...........I am no longer going to spend my evenings listening to his logic of how he can control it......I told him to reason with himself, I dont want to hear the BS........Next time he threatens, I am going to the store........I am going to smile and hand him the keys.............There is nothing I can do.......so I need to decide what I want......and what I want to live with........

prodigal

The perverse logic of an addict never ceases to amaze me. My AH doesn't have a "problem" yet at other times he'll go as far as to say, "I drink too much." Mind you, he doesn't do a damn thing about it, he simply acknowledges it.

His biggest argument to "prove" he is not an alcoholic is the six months he deployed to Kosovo where no liquor was available. He claims he had trouble sleeping for about three nights, then then he was fine. He never craved alcohol. He worked 16 hour days, 7 days a week and no booze was available. I guess if all he had to occupy his time was work and sleep (with a few meals in between) he didn't have a chance to crave his beloved Scotch too much. In fact, Kosovo sounds a bit like a rehab - after all, his mind was occupied elsewhere and he had no access to alcohol.

Pity he won't be returning there. It would give me some peace, get him out of my hair, and sober him up for awhile!

equus

I was right about the glasses!!

You know the really odd thing? He admits he's an alcoholic, he doesn't deny what happened or the extent of it. I think he's shocked that he managed to stop, I think that gives him the confidence to drink - then it goes up so he's scared and stops, then he's surprised that he can stop, that gives him the confidence...... and round and round and round. He's fairly receptive that alcohol could act differently in him, he has other allergies so it's a familiar idea to him. He doesn't deny it's a problem - he just thinks it's one he can solve without help!

Each time he's pulled a little further back - each time I think the fear of it being that bad again has spurred him on. I watch him when he does drink and I think the effort it takes to not get drunk is so great that there's little pleasure in it.

It had crept up to about 2/3 pints a night in October, because of the past that was enough to really scare him - that and a day he went to the pub in the afternoon. This was at a time when he said (and I do believe him) that he would like to just drink a couple of days in the week. He of course had to sail close to the wind before jolting himself to do something, an afternoon lone visit to the pub wasn't something small it was a line he'd sworn not to cross and I think losing the control over that was huge to him.

Since he came back it's never been about the amount he drinks - more that he still isn't controlling it, influencing maybe but not control and for someone who can't remember 3 years of their life because they were so drunk, that's bloody risky in anyone's book!!

I wonder if he'll go that close to real risk this time?

wraybear

Wow, Equus. Sounds like you are so strong and so much doing the right thing. I have learned a lot from this post. Thanks for so much detail. Your writing is really sinking in to my brain! I need good thoughts and observations to sink into my brain tonight!

Live

Equus, you are so right on not taking the responsibility for his addiction.
But you know what I noticed? All you have written about is him, what about you, what about your life, how are you?
Is everything about him?
I hope not.

DefofLov

Yeah, what about Equus?

equus

On here that's true - but then it is an alcoholism forum. As for my life, well - I hate my job but right now I need to keep it, D earns a good wage but had to take a pay cut to move here and we have a large mortgage. I ride at the weekends which I love because my years as a groom mean I get to do what I like with VERY decent horses. Over Christmas (like many people) I've been a bit lazy but normally I swim and/or go skating in the week too.

As for how I feel about D:

I think it's natural for me to be taking more than average time to 'settle in' to married life, until last Feb I thought the guy I'm married to was dead! It has been a steep learning curve, I went from thinking all the problems were past to understanding there's no such thing. About a month before we married I saw the first bout of real depression, I watched him get so angry at himself and I saw weight drop off him, he went from a 32" waist to 28" in less than a month - mainly because he lost interest in food. I also saw him fight it and win. Since then I've seen the same with being out the house, at first thinking agrophobia was just something that happened to him years ago then slowly realising he's still struggling with it. He says it's because he's drank coffee, or eaten the wrong cheese - it isn't, my crystal ball never fails, we plan to go somewhere busy and his head is down the loo, in a supermarket he won't think straight and if I suggest going back for something, he'll either come or argue that we don't need it. But I see him fight this too, he does come with me if I ask him to (sometimes it's just easier alone), he even came to a festival with me. I have so much respect for him, I'm the one who moans and whinges, I don't think he's ever asked for sympathy. It's me that's cried on his shoulder not the other way around.

I don't know what it's like to be in love (and newly married) with someone ordinary so it's hard to really know how much of this is different, I do know some of it is. Things get smaller as I understand a little bit more, and sometimes it is about working round things. I love him, I wouldn't swap him even when he drives me potty, it isn't like I ever wanted an ordinary bloke anyway. Last night he was down (first day back at work), fed up and grumpy - we went to fix my old neighbours computer, he got it up and running for her and encouraged her to keep up with her course. He came back beeming because now he has his first Silver surfer (Old lady) here as well as the silver surfers in his home village!!

One thing in my life has been on hold, this time last year I was planning to move to Sri Lanka!! I have good local friends there. Unfortunately it's a country with an enormous alcohol problem, 1 in 5 of the population are alcoholics (which is scarier than it looks as only the men drink!). It's also Asia with all the chaos and teaming crowds. I'm worried to take D there he grew up in mountains and is used to islolation, even a UK city is something he finds hard to deal with and I know he'd be offered alcohol constantly by friendly folk who share everything. Other than that and the fact we're newly weds so probably a bit too wrapped in each other, I think our relationship is pretty healthy. I have my own friends and life too.

I ned to figure out what I want to do job wise, but I've been stuck with that for a long time. At 16 I did a job I loved but that would never pay enough to live, at 23 I got sensible and went to uni, but since then I've felt a bit like a fish out of water, more used to hard physical labour than being sat at a desk. This is a big problem for me and one that D bends over backwards to help with, he's happy to support whatever I want to do but I'm a proud woman and have always earned my own keep.

So there you go... the rest of my life isn't very alcohol related which is pretty much why it hasn't really been posted on here.