Dealing with Ongoing Fallout
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 688
Dealing with Ongoing Fallout
Trying to make a long story short: I separated from my family of origin 12-13 years ago after two years in a row of holiday melt-downs, one aimed at my then 11 year old daughter and another, even uglier, aimed at me while everyone placidly watched the culprit scream at me, then all went back to dinner. My AF later absolutely promised me he was behind me being treated like this by any of them because I'm annoying and always in the wrong and they never are.
Trying to talk it out did no good. I saw there was no fighting an alcoholic family system where I'm always in the wrong, where my siblings are given the okay by my parents, even as adults, to scream at me, humiliate me, throw things at me, lecture me, etc. and do these things in front of my kids. This could only end up with my kids utterly disrespecting me as they watched that example. I saw no choice but to separate from people who would teach my kids by example that they, too, could treat me this way.
The problem is, the older kids, in their late teens and early adult years, couldn't be stopped from continuing to spend lots of time with these people. My older daughter has learned this behavior anyway and, long story short again, in recent months, exploded on me about things I supposedly did to her siblings (things she wasn't there to witness). When told she had basic facts wrong and didn't know the truth of the stories she repeated, only doubled down.
When I agreed to everything she wanted regarding her upcoming event (which was something that causes me health issues but it was a major event) rather than say thank you or just let it rest, her husband went on to speak down to me in a way I wouldn't speak to a 6-year-old it was so disrespectful. I agreed to what he wanted and he demanded I agree to it in the exact words he wanted...or he would disinvite me. Worse, the next day, he kicked my husband out of the church altogether, rather than just let him sit alone in the foyer during their event. [Let me stress my husband had done NOTHING to anyone and had in fact gone to great expense to buy me nice clothes for their event and drive halfway across the country to be there for them. He is simply incapable of wearing a mask without his vision tunneling in and so chose to sit alone in the foyer, in order to respect their wishes, rather than go into the church.]
Needless to say, I feel my daughter and SIL have concluded they can treat me (and now my husband) with the same contempt and disrespect my parents and siblings have. I have tried to talk to her about it and she has only doubled down. The things she believes of me are flat out not true--but she will have none of that. She will defend her husband's actions toward me and my husband.
Where do I go from here?
Holidays are coming up. I see only the choice of tell them they need to promise to start behaving with basic courtesy, which they won't promise (as they're very self-righteous about their actions) and so there's another family rift as her siblings may then start choosing sides and refuse to come, or say nothing about it and let things move forward with them believing they can speak down to me and treat me with disrespect forever. Do my husband and I tell them that he himself will not have SIL in his home after the way he was treated and let her consider that someone other than me (the family scapegoat who doesn't count, as she has learned) will not tolerate this behavior?
I have spent my life with a family of origin and then a dysfunctional narcissistic husband who pulled the 'YOU are always in the wrong' game with me for decades. Now I have my daughter doing it and my attempts to talk with her came to nothing. What is left? Cut my daughter out of my life, have family fights on holidays as I stand up for myself, tell her she needs to shape up to be invited and hope, disinvite her and her husband and risk losing all my kids, try to talk to her again?
What kills me is, she has learned the alcoholic family line and she can't even see it. The words coming out of her mouth are exactly the words of my parents. I don't have these problems with anyone in my life, except those who spend time with my parents. In any other field of my life, I'm well-liked and more--well-respected. It is only people who spend time with my parents who view me this way.
Trying to talk it out did no good. I saw there was no fighting an alcoholic family system where I'm always in the wrong, where my siblings are given the okay by my parents, even as adults, to scream at me, humiliate me, throw things at me, lecture me, etc. and do these things in front of my kids. This could only end up with my kids utterly disrespecting me as they watched that example. I saw no choice but to separate from people who would teach my kids by example that they, too, could treat me this way.
The problem is, the older kids, in their late teens and early adult years, couldn't be stopped from continuing to spend lots of time with these people. My older daughter has learned this behavior anyway and, long story short again, in recent months, exploded on me about things I supposedly did to her siblings (things she wasn't there to witness). When told she had basic facts wrong and didn't know the truth of the stories she repeated, only doubled down.
When I agreed to everything she wanted regarding her upcoming event (which was something that causes me health issues but it was a major event) rather than say thank you or just let it rest, her husband went on to speak down to me in a way I wouldn't speak to a 6-year-old it was so disrespectful. I agreed to what he wanted and he demanded I agree to it in the exact words he wanted...or he would disinvite me. Worse, the next day, he kicked my husband out of the church altogether, rather than just let him sit alone in the foyer during their event. [Let me stress my husband had done NOTHING to anyone and had in fact gone to great expense to buy me nice clothes for their event and drive halfway across the country to be there for them. He is simply incapable of wearing a mask without his vision tunneling in and so chose to sit alone in the foyer, in order to respect their wishes, rather than go into the church.]
Needless to say, I feel my daughter and SIL have concluded they can treat me (and now my husband) with the same contempt and disrespect my parents and siblings have. I have tried to talk to her about it and she has only doubled down. The things she believes of me are flat out not true--but she will have none of that. She will defend her husband's actions toward me and my husband.
Where do I go from here?
Holidays are coming up. I see only the choice of tell them they need to promise to start behaving with basic courtesy, which they won't promise (as they're very self-righteous about their actions) and so there's another family rift as her siblings may then start choosing sides and refuse to come, or say nothing about it and let things move forward with them believing they can speak down to me and treat me with disrespect forever. Do my husband and I tell them that he himself will not have SIL in his home after the way he was treated and let her consider that someone other than me (the family scapegoat who doesn't count, as she has learned) will not tolerate this behavior?
I have spent my life with a family of origin and then a dysfunctional narcissistic husband who pulled the 'YOU are always in the wrong' game with me for decades. Now I have my daughter doing it and my attempts to talk with her came to nothing. What is left? Cut my daughter out of my life, have family fights on holidays as I stand up for myself, tell her she needs to shape up to be invited and hope, disinvite her and her husband and risk losing all my kids, try to talk to her again?
What kills me is, she has learned the alcoholic family line and she can't even see it. The words coming out of her mouth are exactly the words of my parents. I don't have these problems with anyone in my life, except those who spend time with my parents. In any other field of my life, I'm well-liked and more--well-respected. It is only people who spend time with my parents who view me this way.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,620
hi Eveningrose, well what a messy situation.
For your Daughter, I think you may be wasting your time trying to get through to her, personally I would back right off as in go no-contact, let her contact you if she has something (nice) to say to you.
Remember you never have to JADE Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain yourself. Your Daughter is entitled to her opinions, even if they are wrong. It's very sad, I do know.
Personally I would never put up with any of that, not for one minute from your FOO. Why would you? You don't want to spend time with them and when you do they are abusive, I can't imagine a reason to ever want to spend time in their company.
I'm not sure what your xmas/holiday tradition is, do you have dinner at your house? I certainly would if I were you, invite who you want, don't invite who you don't want. You can invite your Daughter if you would like to but if they can't be civil then you can always ask them to leave. If you think them being civil impossible, perhaps don't invite them. You would be better off with just you and your children that haven't been brought in to the toxic fold then in a room full of people.
You need to take care of yourself you know? There are times when you have to distance yourself from your child(ren). It happens! Doesn't mean you don't love them or care about them, just that you can't be around them right now.
For your Daughter, I think you may be wasting your time trying to get through to her, personally I would back right off as in go no-contact, let her contact you if she has something (nice) to say to you.
Remember you never have to JADE Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain yourself. Your Daughter is entitled to her opinions, even if they are wrong. It's very sad, I do know.
Personally I would never put up with any of that, not for one minute from your FOO. Why would you? You don't want to spend time with them and when you do they are abusive, I can't imagine a reason to ever want to spend time in their company.
I'm not sure what your xmas/holiday tradition is, do you have dinner at your house? I certainly would if I were you, invite who you want, don't invite who you don't want. You can invite your Daughter if you would like to but if they can't be civil then you can always ask them to leave. If you think them being civil impossible, perhaps don't invite them. You would be better off with just you and your children that haven't been brought in to the toxic fold then in a room full of people.
You need to take care of yourself you know? There are times when you have to distance yourself from your child(ren). It happens! Doesn't mean you don't love them or care about them, just that you can't be around them right now.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 64
First I am so terribly sorry for what you are going through. It is absolutely horrible and you don't deserve it. I read a book decades ago--I don't recall the title or the author or even the overall theme of the book, but there is one line that I will never forget: What you tolerate, you accept. I'm not always so good at applying this, but for years it is the phrase that keeps me on track (or brings me back). It seems very appropriate in your situation. It answers your questions. You do not have to tolerate abuse from anyone, regardless of the relationship. If you do not want your younger children to learn this behavior with you specifically, you cannot accept it. A lack of action is acceptance. I'm not suggesting you become the monster, just that you show your children there is a consequence, with you, for choosing to act in this manner. That consequence may very well be no-contact. That consequence might be telling the attacker that you disagree and refuse to engage with them, calmly collecting your things and leaving. That consequence might be calmly telling them that you do not tolerate abusive behavior in your home so they will have to leave. Whatever is appropriate, but definitely some action. It's a really tough situation and I wish you did not have to go through it, but it sounds as if you have been going through it for a really long time---you can't change that, but you can change tomorrow.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,792
I too am sorry for your situation
With any dysfunctional family system seems to come an attitude of entitlement. They think they’re entitled to you and anything you have.
I’ve gotten pretty good at cutting people off, relatives or not. As sick as this culture is, I doubt things will get any easier.
With any dysfunctional family system seems to come an attitude of entitlement. They think they’re entitled to you and anything you have.
I’ve gotten pretty good at cutting people off, relatives or not. As sick as this culture is, I doubt things will get any easier.
sage
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 704
I'm so sorry you are still dealing with this. My FOO behaves in a similar way. With one of my siblings I'm no contact, as I really don't want her around my children. One of my parents has only met my children once. The others I keep at arm's length, and I limit the time we spend. My deceased AH was a poor role model, and my children unfortunately have developed some behavioral traits and habits that I'm still attempting to undo, so I really do feel the conflict you have with your daughter.
For your own peace of mind, and for the benefit of your family, I'd suggest what others have suggested, that within the context of what you prefer your holidays to feel and look like, that you decide on an event by event basis whether to go no contact or limited contact with conditions. You truly do have to consider that nothing will change, that you don't have to sit through the hideous behaviors, and that you really shouldn't allow your other children to be treated this way. A healthy and happy holiday without the abusive parts of the family is so much better for all of you.
I'm sorry. I know this is a tough call to make.
For your own peace of mind, and for the benefit of your family, I'd suggest what others have suggested, that within the context of what you prefer your holidays to feel and look like, that you decide on an event by event basis whether to go no contact or limited contact with conditions. You truly do have to consider that nothing will change, that you don't have to sit through the hideous behaviors, and that you really shouldn't allow your other children to be treated this way. A healthy and happy holiday without the abusive parts of the family is so much better for all of you.
I'm sorry. I know this is a tough call to make.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 334
Is it worth it to you to sign up for any kind of family counselor for you and your daughter or any other children you want to keep good communication and relationships with? Because, mostly, how we are perceived by others is out of our hands, but if it really hurts you to not have her understand where you’re coming from, possible a neutral third party who is professional and reliable could be helpful? Especially one who is family with families of alcoholics who understand the dynamics?
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: New England
Posts: 4,409
I am not being glib. Pack up the younger kids and take them and your husband on a nice, tropical vacation over Christmas. The rest of the family can get by on their own. It sounds like you have been taking their BS long enough.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 688
Originally Posted by edoering 
Is it worth it to you to sign up for any kind of family counselor for you and your daughter or any other children you want to keep good communication and relationships with? Because, mostly, how we are perceived by others is out of our hands, but if it really hurts you to not have her understand where you’re coming from, possible a neutral third party who is professional and reliable could be helpful? Especially one who is family with families of alcoholics who understand the dynamics?
I don't rule this out. I believe my daughter wants to have a good and close relationship with me but is also unaware of how the family drama has caught her in its net making her think and see the 'narrative' instead of the truth.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
