Needing help... Spiraling
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Originally Posted by suki44883 
I couldn't agree with this more. I think that is where many of us get stuck...trying to make the addict (or anyone for that matter) understand things. For whatever reason, we feel they need to see our point of view and agree that what they did was wrong; as if we need validation from them before we can feel justified and truly move on. As if that will change anything that happened.
You have made a lot of progress over the past few months, but every time you communicate with him, it throws you right back into the chaotic thinking. A wound won't heal if you keep ripping off the scab. Is there any legitimate reason for you to continue talking to him?
You have made a lot of progress over the past few months, but every time you communicate with him, it throws you right back into the chaotic thinking. A wound won't heal if you keep ripping off the scab. Is there any legitimate reason for you to continue talking to him?
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Originally Posted by advbike
I'm sorry, I just have to jump in here. Why is it important for him "to understand things"? It seems you still feel a need to communicate your pain and feelings to him, perhaps in the hope for closure? or possibly a different outcome? or else why would it matter? It won't change who he is or the things he has done to hurt you. I believe at this point you would be best served to just let him go and move on, without ANY contact - whether he is drinking or not. Alcoholics remain messed up for a long time when they quit drinking. It is a very long road to recovery.
I am so sorry for the pain you are going through.
I am so sorry for the pain you are going through.
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But he didn't see you or hear you before either. I went through some of your earlier threads again, when he was just your BF. He never really changed. Maybe he played a part for a while, maybe he would like to be that "normal" guy, he's just not, not then, not after you married him, not now.
What you want from him he does not have the capacity to give you. You are asking/expecting too much from him. You would like for him to be a nice human being, and treat you with understanding but he can't.
It's just not in him.
You have wanted all along for him to get sober to save your relationship, he never has. It is not something he is willing (or perhaps able) to do right now, or in the past many years. Same idea.
For you, understanding why you would have that expectation of him when he has never been that, that's something to look at.
What you want from him he does not have the capacity to give you. You are asking/expecting too much from him. You would like for him to be a nice human being, and treat you with understanding but he can't.
It's just not in him.
You have wanted all along for him to get sober to save your relationship, he never has. It is not something he is willing (or perhaps able) to do right now, or in the past many years. Same idea.
For you, understanding why you would have that expectation of him when he has never been that, that's something to look at.
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It’s terrifying to think you didn’t see it coming, because then what’s to stop it from happening again? If we could just understand it, maybe we could prevent it from happening ever again. Same reason why people asked my mom what she ate when she was diagnosed with cancer—maybe if there was a reason that made sense, they could protect themselves from her fate?
I totally get why you want this to make sense. Because it’s crazy, what happened to you. It is. And no one wants to risk facing this kind of heartbreak and financial chaos ever, let alone ever again. Feelings of anxiety about ever being put through this again may have been triggered by your date. But your ex may never be able to be truly honest about what happened. Because admitting it involves shattering their whole current worldview, that they’ve built on denial. He may never be able to give you justice. But you don’t need him. You’re more than enough. It’s not fair or logical what happened to you, but you are handling it so well. Because you’re awesome.
I totally get why you want this to make sense. Because it’s crazy, what happened to you. It is. And no one wants to risk facing this kind of heartbreak and financial chaos ever, let alone ever again. Feelings of anxiety about ever being put through this again may have been triggered by your date. But your ex may never be able to be truly honest about what happened. Because admitting it involves shattering their whole current worldview, that they’ve built on denial. He may never be able to give you justice. But you don’t need him. You’re more than enough. It’s not fair or logical what happened to you, but you are handling it so well. Because you’re awesome.
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Originally Posted by edoering
It’s terrifying to think you didn’t see it coming, because then what’s to stop it from happening again? If we could just understand it, maybe we could prevent it from happening ever again. Same reason why people asked my mom what she ate when she was diagnosed with cancer—maybe if there was a reason that made sense, they could protect themselves from her fate?
I totally get why you want this to make sense. Because it’s crazy, what happened to you. It is. And no one wants to risk facing this kind of heartbreak and financial chaos ever, let alone ever again. Feelings of anxiety about ever being put through this again may have been triggered by your date. But your ex may never be able to be truly honest about what happened. Because admitting it involves shattering their whole current worldview, that they’ve built on denial. He may never be able to give you justice. But you don’t need him. You’re more than enough. It’s not fair or logical what happened to you, but you are handling it so well. Because you’re awesome.
I totally get why you want this to make sense. Because it’s crazy, what happened to you. It is. And no one wants to risk facing this kind of heartbreak and financial chaos ever, let alone ever again. Feelings of anxiety about ever being put through this again may have been triggered by your date. But your ex may never be able to be truly honest about what happened. Because admitting it involves shattering their whole current worldview, that they’ve built on denial. He may never be able to give you justice. But you don’t need him. You’re more than enough. It’s not fair or logical what happened to you, but you are handling it so well. Because you’re awesome.
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Originally Posted by trailmix
But he didn't see you or hear you before either. I went through some of your earlier threads again, when he was just your BF. He never really changed. Maybe he played a part for a while, maybe he would like to be that "normal" guy, he's just not, not then, not after you married him, not now.
What you want from him he does not have the capacity to give you. You are asking/expecting too much from him. You would like for him to be a nice human being, and treat you with understanding but he can't.
It's just not in him.
You have wanted all along for him to get sober to save your relationship, he never has. It is not something he is willing (or perhaps able) to do right now, or in the past many years. Same idea.
For you, understanding why you would have that expectation of him when he has never been that, that's something to look at.
What you want from him he does not have the capacity to give you. You are asking/expecting too much from him. You would like for him to be a nice human being, and treat you with understanding but he can't.
It's just not in him.
You have wanted all along for him to get sober to save your relationship, he never has. It is not something he is willing (or perhaps able) to do right now, or in the past many years. Same idea.
For you, understanding why you would have that expectation of him when he has never been that, that's something to look at.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
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I understand, I really do. I looked at one of your posts where you had only spoken to him via text 3 times in a month I think it was and you were starting to get clarity:
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ny-things.html (Realizing so many things)
You've had a set back, that's understandable. Every time you go in to the lions den.
I also get that alcoholics are people and have good traits too. They aren't some evil monsters. So underneath it all maybe he is an ok guy, although his behaviour now and before wouldn't lead me to believe so, but there had to be something good in him!
I know you want him to understand and I think you believe he has the capacity for that somewhere in him, maybe you've seen it from time to time. But right now he's still the guy that showed up with the boxes and moved out, driving off drunk with his two children, he's that guy. He doesn't want to deal with anything.
In that post I linked to above you mentioned how maybe you never really knew him, that how he was depended on how many drink he had consumed that day or night. Well that is him, the guy with no fixed address, unpredictable, changing his mind depending on number of drinks.
Please don't be too hard on yourself, you went in to it with good intentions. I'm sorry you may not be able to have a biological child now, that has to be very tough. Who knows who will come in to your life now, you may get the family you want after all.
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ny-things.html (Realizing so many things)
You've had a set back, that's understandable. Every time you go in to the lions den.
I also get that alcoholics are people and have good traits too. They aren't some evil monsters. So underneath it all maybe he is an ok guy, although his behaviour now and before wouldn't lead me to believe so, but there had to be something good in him!
I know you want him to understand and I think you believe he has the capacity for that somewhere in him, maybe you've seen it from time to time. But right now he's still the guy that showed up with the boxes and moved out, driving off drunk with his two children, he's that guy. He doesn't want to deal with anything.
In that post I linked to above you mentioned how maybe you never really knew him, that how he was depended on how many drink he had consumed that day or night. Well that is him, the guy with no fixed address, unpredictable, changing his mind depending on number of drinks.
Please don't be too hard on yourself, you went in to it with good intentions. I'm sorry you may not be able to have a biological child now, that has to be very tough. Who knows who will come in to your life now, you may get the family you want after all.
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Kaya......you ask how in the world couold he give you only one hour's notice before leaving and after looking at apartments , the day before.
If my memory still serves me right, I think I read in one of your threads thst he had been drinking from early in that morning and continued, on and off, all that day.
As we know, intioxication effects the frontal lobe and the cognitive function---often to the point of black out drunk.
I have worked with hundreds of alcoholics, and you probably wouldn\t be;oeve some of the stories that I have heard and witnessed.
People can do some realy Krazy things when they are intoxicated.
Do you think that his obvifous intoxication could have had anything to do with the one hour notice?.
--
If my memory still serves me right, I think I read in one of your threads thst he had been drinking from early in that morning and continued, on and off, all that day.
As we know, intioxication effects the frontal lobe and the cognitive function---often to the point of black out drunk.
I have worked with hundreds of alcoholics, and you probably wouldn\t be;oeve some of the stories that I have heard and witnessed.
People can do some realy Krazy things when they are intoxicated.
Do you think that his obvifous intoxication could have had anything to do with the one hour notice?.
--
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This is all part of it, Kaya, and you will get there. It will not take as little time as you might like, but it won't take as long as you fear either. You are right where you should be.
Accepting that the key to understanding what happened does not lie with him, but with you and you alone, is a frightening, but necessary, step. And once you do it, you will be amazed at the wealth of internal resources you have to dedicate to it.
Accepting that the key to understanding what happened does not lie with him, but with you and you alone, is a frightening, but necessary, step. And once you do it, you will be amazed at the wealth of internal resources you have to dedicate to it.
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Hey Kaya, this is indeed tough stuff. You have been hit by the chaos and craziness of Alcoholism. It doesn't make sense anymore than being hit by some natural disaster. Trying to come to closure through understanding is completely natural; we all have tried to do this. However most of us reach a point of acceptance rather than closure . . . . hmmm . . . this may be more semantics than anything; I'm not sure.
Five months out from this relationship and its traumatic end isn't very long. Of course some people start to feel better after a few months but they may well be the exception rather than the rule. It took me years to feel better. We are all different and the same so your journey will have its unique aspects.
Please keep getting through the days and let us know how you get on.
Five months out from this relationship and its traumatic end isn't very long. Of course some people start to feel better after a few months but they may well be the exception rather than the rule. It took me years to feel better. We are all different and the same so your journey will have its unique aspects.
Please keep getting through the days and let us know how you get on.
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Join Date: Jul 2021
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Kaya, it sounds as if you are just overloaded with many feelings right now, grief, fear, anger . . . when we're in the thick of it with our qualifier, we shut our emotions down to get through it all, so now that you're out of that, in a way it's almost like a detox for you, to get used to your feelings again. Sometimes it helps to just sit with and feel those feelings rather than suppress and prolong them, before you let go of each one. As someone else said, it's only been 5 months, and we all heal at different rates. You've really come so far, trust that you will get through, because you will.
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Originally Posted by trailmix
How are you doing now Kaya?
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Originally Posted by LovelyKaya33333
Hi. Thank you for checking in… I didn’t have to work today… so I decided to get some healthy food and stay in bed all day. I cried a lot and let myself feel. I pretended I was sick with the flu in a way. I almost made myself go to the gym and go grocery shopping but instead I decided it was important to grieve today. I’m hoping tomorrow I feel a little more centered. I had events for work on Saturday all day and evening so I was distracted with work. So today I just thought to myself “I’m not going to push myself”… not today.
It is good to hear you are taking care of yourself the best you can.
Big hug to you!
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Originally Posted by LovelyKaya33333
Hi. Thank you for checking in… I didn’t have to work today… so I decided to get some healthy food and stay in bed all day. I cried a lot and let myself feel. I pretended I was sick with the flu in a way. I almost made myself go to the gym and go grocery shopping but instead I decided it was important to grieve today. I’m hoping tomorrow I feel a little more centered. I had events for work on Saturday all day and evening so I was distracted with work. So today I just thought to myself “I’m not going to push myself”… not today.
No matter how many therapy sessions I have been through or how many journal entries I have written...or how many tears I have shed... just not understanding why is so hard...
Addictions, LIes and Relationships:
"This natural defensive maneuver of "the best defense is a good offense" variety can be the first step on a slippery slope that leads to the paranoid demonization of the very people the addict cares about the most. Unable any longer to carry the burden of his own transgressions he begins to think of himself as the victim of the unfairness and unreasonableness of others who are forever harping on his addiction and the consequences that flow from it. "Leave me alone," he may snap. "I'm not hurting anybody but myself!" He has become almost totally blind to how his addictive behavior does in fact harm those around him who care about him; and he has grown so confused thathurting only himself has begun to sound like a rational, even a virtuous thing to do"!
Perhaps earlier in his addiction he may even have been able to convince himself that "some day" he would be able to quit. That turned out not to be the case.
I don't think this was a sudden as it seems, I mean him exiting was, but he was already in his own little world:
Originally Posted by LovelyKaya33333
I feel like he hates me for wanting more for us. For wanting better. For wanting a closer relationship. If he wants to keep drinking I just wish he would be kind to me about it. I wish he would just let me go with love. All I am asking for is a sense of a normal life with him and he punishes me with the silent treatment and pulling away just from a confrontation about drinking. So now I am stuck. I feel stuck...not only can't I say "Hey are you drunk or drinking?" I now have to act ok with it. I can't even remove myself emotionally. I feel invisible. Like my actual feelings are a burden.
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People have to reach a certain level of maturity to handle the concept of being responsible for the things they do and having empathy for others. Some people may never get there.
Non-alcoholic example: I had an acquaintance whose son's dog bit a child in the neighborhood - badly. Kid was in the hospital for a couple weeks and needed plastic surgery. Dog owner and his mom ***just could not*** grasp why the neighbors were furious at their attempt to keep the dog. I didn't know the son, but I did know the mom. Talking to her about it, she just. didn't. get. it. "My son's so sad, why do they have to kill the dog?...my other son came to the house and let him out accidentally, so it isn't really Joe's fault, it's his brother's...I didn't know what kind of dog it was" (It was a pit bull) If you asked her today, she'd still say it was unfair for the state to take that dog and euthanize it.
Your ex's other ex-wife may have *much* lower standards than you - she, (or whomever he hooks up with next) may be totally okay with someone who's drunk most of the time. It's absolutely normal to want a partner who is sober, empathetic and engaged - it just doesn't obligate anyone else to live up to our standards.
Non-alcoholic example: I had an acquaintance whose son's dog bit a child in the neighborhood - badly. Kid was in the hospital for a couple weeks and needed plastic surgery. Dog owner and his mom ***just could not*** grasp why the neighbors were furious at their attempt to keep the dog. I didn't know the son, but I did know the mom. Talking to her about it, she just. didn't. get. it. "My son's so sad, why do they have to kill the dog?...my other son came to the house and let him out accidentally, so it isn't really Joe's fault, it's his brother's...I didn't know what kind of dog it was" (It was a pit bull) If you asked her today, she'd still say it was unfair for the state to take that dog and euthanize it.
Your ex's other ex-wife may have *much* lower standards than you - she, (or whomever he hooks up with next) may be totally okay with someone who's drunk most of the time. It's absolutely normal to want a partner who is sober, empathetic and engaged - it just doesn't obligate anyone else to live up to our standards.
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Originally Posted by trailmix
I also think that was a wise idea, you're hurt so why not take time for yourself until you feel better. I'm glad you had the day off. Rest is really important and I know you work hard, so yes, when you get the chance take it!
I personally think that your ex might have some moments (just moments) of clarity, when he knows just what he has done and the damage he has caused, however, those are just moments and the rest of the time the addiction intercedes.
Addictions, LIes and Relationships:
He cannot see what he has done, can't/won't. To do that would mean he would have to confess all - lay down all the defenses he has built (if he even can anymore). I'm an alcoholic, I just want to drink alone really, I don't care what happens to you or anyone else. I've been hurting you for years but I don't want to confess to/believe I am a horrible person (because I can't face that) and I really don't want anyone to ever ask me to or expect me to quit drinking.
Perhaps earlier in his addiction he may even have been able to convince himself that "some day" he would be able to quit. That turned out not to be the case.
I don't think this was a sudden as it seems, I mean him exiting was, but he was already in his own little world:
I personally think that your ex might have some moments (just moments) of clarity, when he knows just what he has done and the damage he has caused, however, those are just moments and the rest of the time the addiction intercedes.
Addictions, LIes and Relationships:
He cannot see what he has done, can't/won't. To do that would mean he would have to confess all - lay down all the defenses he has built (if he even can anymore). I'm an alcoholic, I just want to drink alone really, I don't care what happens to you or anyone else. I've been hurting you for years but I don't want to confess to/believe I am a horrible person (because I can't face that) and I really don't want anyone to ever ask me to or expect me to quit drinking.
Perhaps earlier in his addiction he may even have been able to convince himself that "some day" he would be able to quit. That turned out not to be the case.
I don't think this was a sudden as it seems, I mean him exiting was, but he was already in his own little world:
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Originally Posted by velma929
People have to reach a certain level of maturity to handle the concept of being responsible for the things they do and having empathy for others. Some people may never get there.
Non-alcoholic example: I had an acquaintance whose son's dog bit a child in the neighborhood - badly. Kid was in the hospital for a couple weeks and needed plastic surgery. Dog owner and his mom ***just could not*** grasp why the neighbors were furious at their attempt to keep the dog. I didn't know the son, but I did know the mom. Talking to her about it, she just. didn't. get. it. "My son's so sad, why do they have to kill the dog?...my other son came to the house and let him out accidentally, so it isn't really Joe's fault, it's his brother's...I didn't know what kind of dog it was" (It was a pit bull) If you asked her today, she'd still say it was unfair for the state to take that dog and euthanize it.
Your ex's other ex-wife may have *much* lower standards than you - she, (or whomever he hooks up with next) may be totally okay with someone who's drunk most of the time. It's absolutely normal to want a partner who is sober, empathetic and engaged - it just doesn't obligate anyone else to live up to our standards.
Non-alcoholic example: I had an acquaintance whose son's dog bit a child in the neighborhood - badly. Kid was in the hospital for a couple weeks and needed plastic surgery. Dog owner and his mom ***just could not*** grasp why the neighbors were furious at their attempt to keep the dog. I didn't know the son, but I did know the mom. Talking to her about it, she just. didn't. get. it. "My son's so sad, why do they have to kill the dog?...my other son came to the house and let him out accidentally, so it isn't really Joe's fault, it's his brother's...I didn't know what kind of dog it was" (It was a pit bull) If you asked her today, she'd still say it was unfair for the state to take that dog and euthanize it.
Your ex's other ex-wife may have *much* lower standards than you - she, (or whomever he hooks up with next) may be totally okay with someone who's drunk most of the time. It's absolutely normal to want a partner who is sober, empathetic and engaged - it just doesn't obligate anyone else to live up to our standards.
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