Stephanie1968

I’m very new to this forum. My sponsor told me about it last night. I am a codependent and have been working on myself for the last year. I attend a 12 step class with Celebrate Recovery on Monday evenings, a Boundaries class on Tuesday nights, a Codependent class on Wednesdays, see my therapist on Thursdays and was going to celebrate recovery on Fridays until my husband attended the last two drunk and saying things under his breath during the teaching. Example: during teaching they spoke of controlling behavior. And he said under his breath “huh, YEP haha” not funny haha but like He totally gets it because I am so controlling. And I’m controlling because I want him to stop drinking and so it’s my way or the highway even though he puts up with so much from me. Like my spending money and being overweight. If there is any money strains I can’t talk to him because he will blow up and blame me OR be kind about it and seem to understand and the next day blame me and twist things.

anyway. This has been a growing issue and so has his gaslighting. I recently moved out saying I’d be out for a month to work on myself while he worked on himself and check back in on a month. No way is it a divorce. Or even considering that right now. My dr advised for my health I get out of the chaos for a while. He’s gone from being drunk for five days to being sober and kind to guilting me for being gone to again being drunk and ticked off at me because I acknowledged that I could tell on the phone that he had been drinking. So now we haven’t talked for two days other than me sending a work text (we own a business together) and him sending a text last night saying he loves me and have a good night. Then today a “work text” to me in a group text with my adult son (who works for us) in which the text wasn’t needed by me at all. So not sure what that was about. Showing me how hard he’s working or idk. Im just so sad.

trailmix

Hi stephanie. What are your boundaries around all this. You have moved out for a month (no doubt that was good advice) and this is time that perhaps you can start looking after yourself, being kind to yourself, with little input if any from him.

He is obviously not going to change anytime soon (and you can't really change anyone).

What are you hoping will happen here? What do you want for your life?

Stephanie1968

mice been working on myself and trying to learn to set boundaries (I just started a boundaries class). For now what I’ve done so far is learn to say what I see, say how I feel and don’t be afraid to talk about it. When he gas lights me I call my sponsor to make sure it is in fact gaslighting and not something he is correct on.

I want peace. I want to not have to scan every night wondering if he is drinking. I want to not be made to feel like a piece of crap because I don’t want him to drink.

I want to practice self care and keep working on myself and ultimately I want him to get help and us to be able to continue our marriage. But I can’t control him drinking or not drinking anymore than I can control the weather. I’m trying to keep the focus on myself and stop feeling so much guilt for doing what’s best for me at this moment.

thank you so much for your reply and your questions to get me to think about things maybe I’m not fully thinking about.

trailmix

What you're thinking seems entirely reasonable for yourself.

As for him, he will stop drinking, as you no doubt know, the moment he wants to and not before. Sounds like he is well in to drinking and doesn't see a problem with it (except that you won't accept it).

What if he won't stop drinking, will you continue on in the marriage anyway? It seems like YOU are doing a ton of work and he is - not. Hopefully this time away from him will help you get rid of some of the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt). You should never feel guilty about taking care of yourself. If you aren't, who will?



Is celebrate recovery helping you at all? Perhaps a once a week meeting of Al-Anon would be more beneficial to you? It doesn't sound like he is interested in recovery, so no point in you attending perhaps, unless it is helping you in some way (I'm not familiar with the group work, although I've heard of them).

dandylion

Stephanie......congratulations for your dedication to working on yourself. Please don't ever stop.
I have heard good reports about the value of Cedlebrate Recovery, on this forum, over the years.

I hear you that you do not want to consider divorce. I, personally, know of three couples who have separated, but did not choose divorce. They have remained separated for years....and still remain in civil communication with each other. This way they don't have to live with any conflict or chaos or crap under the same roof, yet have not had to be divorced.
This seems to work for those couples.

SmallButMighty

Hi Stephanie, sorry for what brings you here but I glad you found us.

I know that heavy feeling in your heart, I lived with it for a long time. I don't have many words of wisdom on what to do if you decide to stay because I bailed at the 26year mark, had we stayed together, we'd be at 33 years now too. I think you are doing the right things. Learning as much as possible about what you can do to make your life feel more stable, sane and secure is absolutely the right move. I also think that you taking some time away to be by yourself, outside of the immediate chaos is a smart move. I was unable to think clearly when I was still sharing living space with my AXH. A little bit of time and distance does bring some much needed clarity, it most certainly did for me.

But you are right, none of the "knowing" makes any of it any less sad. It's just all soooo damn heartbreaking, from every angle. For being a cloud, that sadness is excruciatingly heavy isn't it? I wish I knew some magic words to help you alleviate that burden, but unfortunately I don't. It took me years after I left my AXH for me to not feel sad every day. But, in my case, being "just" sad was better than being sad AND anxious and furious and scared. ( Just to be clear I was not scared for my physical well-being..."just" everything else)

Part of my growth was examining my parents (very similar) marriage. I looked down the road, and despite as much love as my AXH and I shared, spending the second half of my life miserable, having a long but unhappy marriage, watching my spouse's health and integrity dwindle...wasn't the way I wanted to exist. My parents stayed married 50 years and my mum literally watched my dad die of his self induced health complications while waiting for the ambulance get there. She spent her whole adult life hoping and wishing he'd do better, be better, get better...she spent that whole time sad and disappointed. I didn't want that to be me. My AXH wasn't wanting or willing to change, I knew I'd already "turned into" my mother in many ways, but I didn't want to continue on that path....So, I made the big changes. In my case that meant I was going to have to leave. I realize that is an option not everyone is willing to consider, it certainly was the most painful, gut-wrenching and heartbreaking thing I have ever done. I wouldn't wish that pain on anyone, but it is what *I* had to do to get myself mentally and emotionally healthy again.

Keep taking those deep breaths, let those tears flow and please do keep talking to us. We know your sadness and you don't have to feel alone in it, we are here for you. *hugs*

Cookie314

Steph, in just this one message, he has:
1: Invalidated your feelings and laced it with an oblique accusation
2: Taken your legitimate concerns about his drinking, and twisted the reason for them to be a result of your controlling nature instead of his actions
3: Flipped the victim; he's the one putting up with "so much" from you
4: Claims drinking is a matter of your way or the highway, when that clearly isn't the case since he continues to drink no matter how you feel
5: Insults and degrades you by calling you overweight. (He refers to your weight as "something he puts up with"! Are you kidding me?!)
6: Implies the money you spend is actually his. He wouldn't need to "put up with" you spending your own money, now would he? Any argument into what you spend on is what he wants to bait you on, because doing so essentially agrees to the loaded implication that it isn't under your control to decide how to spend.
7: Classic gaslighting, when he keeps you completely off base about your own feelings, and turn everything into "who is to blame?" It makes you question if you really have done something wrong, even for situations where blame doesn't even enter into it (which is most of them tbh.)

Steph, if you go to this link:
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/best-soberrecovery/47269-you-abused-woman.html
It will take you to one of our "best of sober recovery" threads. That section houses so much good information, and while this thread is a long one, you really should read it. His actions are so clearly abusive just reading your post is raising my blood pressure. I know you aren't looking for a divorce right now, I get that. That sort of choice takes a lot of careful consideration, I understand not wanting to do something like that till you're absolutely sure.

That said, you need to consider the possibility that this is what he's going to stay like. Recovery or no, that sort of hurtful, manipulative behavior speaks to deeper issues than just addiction. While it's true addiction and abuse often go hand in hand, from the sounds of it his issues run deeper than drinking.

Something that helped me come to terms with how warped my own thinking is to ask "opposite questions." Instead of asking "what thing could he do would make me leave immediately?" (Hitting me is an easy answer to this many people give), Ask yourself "What would make me stay if he did that unforgivable thing?"

When we were searching for our home last year, my AH had made it a few months without drinking (or so he told me at the time. I have no way now to know how true that was. But I digress...) before starting to drink in secret again. I remember so clearly we were preparing dinner, and talking about his drinking and search for a therapist. I didn't realize at that point he had drank that night, though in retrospect it was obvious. I brought up a point about continuing to search for treatment, because even though he'd had some success, it could be easy to fall back into complacency. This angered him, and in a second he snapped. We went from preparing dinner and talking, to him screaming at me about nothing being good enough, all he's done for me, controlling him, etc before he told me "F*ck you f*ck you f*ck you! F*ck this! F*ck the house, I'm out!" and shoved his middle fingers in my face multiple times before storming off into the computer room.

I was stunned. Before that point, he'd never screamed at me so angrily and directly. I couldn't believe it. I had no idea what to do, I almost ran out the door with nothing. Who was this person? My husband would never treat me this way. Something else was wrong.

Instead, I just finished making dinner and cleaned the kitchen. When it was nearly finished, he came out. His face was completely different. Covered in tears, he was in anguish. He held his arms out, and I debated telling him to just leave me alone. I wanted to yell at him just like he did to me. You know what I did instead? I started crying, and telling him "I'm sorry! I never meant to say you don't work hard! I didn't mean it that way!" And ran into his arms. He had just yelled at me. Screamed in my face. Scared me, and told me to f*ck off. And all I could think to do after he did all that was tell him how wrong I was. Even as we tried to talk about it during dinner, he could barely function. He was literally falling asleep while we talked! For multiple hours this went on, me trying to talk to someone incapable of doing so until I was so exhausted I just went to bed.

I continued to cover for him too. I told our realtor the next day that he had a migraine. When my mom begged me not to get the house, and said she was scared for my safety, I told her that I didn't want to be hasty. He's in recovery after all irritability is part of it, it's not his fault. It's not like he's yelled at me like this before.

I chose this story because I want you to see the similarities with what you've mentioned so far. I know you love this person, you've seen the best in him! The others just haven't seen it, they just hear this one bad thing and judge him as a whole. Leaving seems like such an extreme action. Like giving up on this person and all you've done so far. But now flip that question. Instead of thinking of what would make you leave, ask what has already happened, and why have you stayed. Why would I stay with someone who screamed at me? Why would I buy a house with someone who just told me such terrible things? At the time, I questioned if I should just end things, but I didn't trust myself. I tried to play devil's advocate, see things from his side, have compassion, etc. We'd been together for so long at that point, 7 years! I couldn't just throw it away for something so small, right? This had only happened once after all...

Those rationalizations, my own self inflection and questioning, my attempts to be fair and compassionate, my love, all were twisted to their extremes. Those good qualities were taken too far, and used to excuse the inexcusable. No one should have to tolerate being so disrespected by their own partner.

While you're taking this month to reflect, take the time to ask those kinds of questions. What are your good qualities? The things you like about yourself? What situations have they helped you in, and in what situations could others use those qualities to their advantage?

You are never at fault for how someone else mistreats you. These questions are meant to help bring more clarity to the reasoning you use to excuse that mistreatment. You are worthy of love and respect. You deserve to be supported, not demeaned. You are putting in so much work for your own benefit. Don't let someone who refuses to do the same pull you into that pit.

Stephanie1968

When we were searching for our home last year, my AH had made it a few months without drinking (or so he told me at the time. I have no way now to know how true that was. But I digress...) before starting to drink in secret again. I remember so clearly we were preparing dinner, and talking about his drinking and search for a therapist. I didn't realize at that point he had drank that night, though in retrospect it was obvious. I brought up a point about continuing to search for treatment, because even though he'd had some success, it could be easy to fall back into complacency. This angered him, and in a second he snapped. We went from preparing dinner and talking, to him screaming at me about nothing being good enough, all he's done for me, controlling him, etc before he told me "F*ck you f*ck you f*ck you! F*ck this! F*ck the house, I'm out!" and shoved his middle fingers in my face multiple times before storming off into the computer room.

I can’t believe how much this sounds like my life. Everything is fine unless I bring up his drinking. Then a switch flips and he flips out. Sadly I’ve had more than one screaming match with him. I won’t participate in them anymore. They are daily, weekly or even monthly but they happen and they are so painful and always when I bring up something negative (99% of the time it’s his drinking)

im going to go to that link and read. The amount of responses I’ve received and the words confirming things I hear from my therapist or classes helps me so much. I appreciate everyone’s wisdom so much.

Cookie314

One of the best phrases I've heard on here is "They - the addict- don't have a problem with their drinking, you do." I'm sure everything is going great for you guys, until you step into the territory he doesn't want to talk about. I'd bet if you brought up something about yourself to change ("oh I want to stop eating ice cream" since he says such kind things about your weight -which, seriously that comment was such bs I'm still angry for you over it-) he'd be ever so happy to talk about it! But as soon as the discussion veers into things he needs to work on, he gets pissed.

Here's a quick link to a page I found of common tactics for emotional manipulation:
https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/red...ulated-0917197

You can think of his getting angry like that as a mix of using fear of starting an argument to control you into not touching subjects he doesn't want; and changing the subject and playing in your insecurities when switching to things like your weight or spending.

While you read that forum I posted, and research types of mental and emotional abuse/manipulation, try getting out a pen and some paper. Make a list of instances you can remember where what you're reading fits with what you've experienced. Write down what led up to it, how did it make you feel, what do you remember thinking at the time, what did you reason about it later to dismiss or move on from it? One of the hardest things for someone in your position is to see and accept that the things he's doing to you are really not ok. To realize you are not alone in what you're feeling, you're not crazy for what you're thinking, and you're not stupid or aggressive or controlling or any number of the things he's told you is the "real" reason you get into fights.

That thread talks about one of the strongest sources of power for you in this situation is knowledge, and it's absolutely right. Whether or not you decide to stay, knowing the tactics used to manipulate you makes them easier to deal with. Often times they're still effective, since you're a normal human with emotions that can be hurt, but it gives you another item to add to your list. The more data you're able to gather in front of you, the clearer the pattern becomes.

I hope your research goes well, and I hope we keep seeing you on here. We're all wishing you the best of luck and are here if you need help or to vent.

Stephanie1968

Wow. Does this speak to me. I do feel like I’m going crazy and struggle with being sure I’m not being controlling or question if things are my fault. I know no matter how careful I am in how I bring his drinking up I need to be prepared to get iced out or annihilated from anything I’ve done “wrong” in the last 33 years.

I will go to the link and I will ask myself the questions and write down my answers. This is incredibly helpful.

thank you so much.