Ldmblack

Hello - I am new to this site and not sure where to begin with my post so I will apologize now if this is not the right thread.
I am 49 and my husband soon to be ex is 54 - we have been married 20 years with a great ilfe (no kids). I knew he had a temper and liked to drink beer so in April 2017 thru May 2018 he had an emotional affair (with another married women who had all kinds of problems), then his bicep tore and then he had a tumor on his kidney that grew up into his inferior vena cava) - we started counseling and he did not like the person and said he was ok. Dec 2019 he started calling another girl and they talked and texted until I busted him May 2020 with his burner phone. He apologized said he loved me started counseling and then April 2021 told me he wanted out - said he was not happy and did not know why but was not in love with anything in his life. His drinking increased by double from 2017 through current and then he started getting beer on his way home from work and then was taking beer out to his hunting blind and was always drinking. He has lied to me so much that I really do not know the truth and he has said said many hurtful things to me over the past year during counseling that does not make any sense (I never loved him, I did not value him, I order dinners for him when we go out, our dog is lazy, he complains about our friends and family). He comes from an alcoholic family (parents/siblings/uncles/grandparents)
I have loved him more than life itself and I thought we were building a life together and I was willing to work through all this with him but he would not do marriage counseling - he just wanted to leave the marriage.

The only thing he recently said to me was he didnt want to die a drunk or loser and he needs alot of help and one day he will get there. I said to him you look me in the eyes and tell me you dont love me anymore and he said he wont and cant. He says its not me but all him. I do not even understand any of this and my heart and world is shattered, He says he needs to figure out why he keeps hurting people. How can someone walk away from 20 years and destroy his marriage and wife at the same time?

All of our friends and family cannot believe what is happening and no one understands why he is the one wanting out when it should have been me that kicked him out years ago but I dont quit and give up on people.

Any advice/support is appreciated! Thank You

dbyrer

I am sorry for your reason but glad you are here. You will find a lot of support here, and some who are wiser than me will be coming with the advice! I had to chuckle when you said your AH complained in counselling that your dog was lazy! Maybe thinking about that will help give you some perspective. He is so unhappy with himself and his life that he can't even begin to focus on his actual problems. Only he can say if he is an alcoholic or not, but it is evident that your relationship is not a priority for him at this time. Perhaps you could seek counselling for yourself to begin to work through the maze of feelings you have and begin to understand this bewildering situation. I wish you the very best.

Ldmblack

Thank you. He has told me several times if he stays he will be living a lie and die a drunk. What does living the lie even mean ??

dandylion

Ldm.......it sounds like he is looking for something outside of himsef to bring him happiness and help him cope with his feelings and emotions. Evidently, the alcohol is not doing it as well as it must have, in the past. Seeking fnew experiences---such as extra marital affairs can be an attempt at finding a new pain-reliever.
Of course. heaping blame onto you is a good way of deflecting the attention off of him and his alcoholism and bad behaviors---shining a light on you and takkng all responsibility off of himself.
Most marriage counselors will not even take a couple if they are aware of active addiction going on----and, there is a good reason for that!
They know that you can't even do therapy when one party is not plugged in.

Your situation is a very common one, here on this forum....there are thousands of the same or similar stories.

I suggest that you not accept the blame that he is throwing about. I have no idea if your marriage is a good one or not, of course----but the reasons that he is putting forward sound like he is blowing smoke, to me---blowing smoke to cover uo for his slcoholsim that he is probably not getting the kind of help that he really needs for it.

I haven't met your dog, either, but, I would bet my children's milk money that your dog is not lazy!!

trailmix

hi Ldmblack. I'm sorry you got hurt in all of this.

Your Husband is either an alcoholic (probably) or has a very big drinking problem. He may have been drinking more than you knew, all along, far more than just "liking beer" would imply. Alcoholism is progressive.

Whether it's just him or the alcohol, or both, living a lie means he is pretending to be something he doesn't want to be (from what I can gather from what you have said). That's not a reflection on you. Generally when people make lame excuses like the dog being lazy or you ordering his dinner, it means there is probably something else and that something else might be the alcohol.

His consumption is increasing in front of you, but as I mentioned, it may always have been greater. Also, alcoholism, generally, gets worse over time, tolerance increases, one is never enough and neither is 50.

You didn't Cause it, can't Control it and can't Cure it (the 3 c's). If you think about who he is now, today and last week (not when things were going better) is this a man you even want to be around? Someone that would cheat, lie and consume major amounts of alcohol. Who treats you so horribly? That is who he is now. He doesn't want to be fixed.

This is going to sound harsh and is not intended that way. You have a problem with his drinking, he doesn't.

Cookie314

I'm sorry his actions have caused you such pain and left you with such a mess. I know this sounds bad, but it seems that he's doing you a favor in this, even if it's a sh*tty thing to do. You've described a situation where you have been pouring your heart and soul into this relationship for years, and he has been unwilling, or unable to reciprocate. Some people are emotional vacuums like that, whether from narcissism, or ignorance, or some other factor. They need that emotional support and energy from others, but don't give any of themselves.

I'm not saying this to mean he's a bad guy or is doing this with intent. He may be, or maybe he's incapable of seeing the common thread between his attempts to connect with others is himself. Who knows? If you look back on daily life with him, does it seem uneven like that? The sort of stuff where he comes to you (or these other women) for emotional support, but doesn't ever seem to reach out to offer you any? Living like that is incredibly draining, and sometimes it takes sharp, painful events like this to give you the clarity to look back on past events and see that.

I know it's a painful road ahead, but there will be positives that come from escaping this storm as well. This may be a good time for you to turn your focus inward on what's good for you, instead of always on holding your relationship together. Are there any hobbies or activities that you used to enjoy that have fallen away over the years? Maybe now is a good time to get back into it. Losing someone you love in any capacity is always difficult, but it can give you new opportunities too. I hope we see more of you around here.

On a side note, why do people say having a lazy dog like it's a bad thing? If I had a dog, laziness would be a prerequisite. I'm thinking some day I'll rescue a nice gray hound, ie: the world's fastest couch potatoes. Lazy is just a term to describe a dog who's just as content to cuddle on the couch and watch movies as you are. You get a good lazy dog, and an equally lazy lap cat, and you'll never have to (or be able to) leave your house to attend stuff you didn't really want to go to anyways. "Oh no, was that noisy party today?! I'm sorry, I simply can't go, I'm trapped you see." It's perfect. Give your pup a hug for me.

Ldmblack

I am trying to understand the alcohol disease does but even after his two emotional affairs ..i have been willing to work through them and he is the one who wants out of the marriage. He cannot give me a valid reason why except he isnt happy BUT he doesnt know why. He wont take medication and did try vitamin supplements but that didnt help. He has yelled at me to go buy happiness that he cant live with himself. I went to Florida in April he told me he loved me have a great trip but when i got home he said he wanted out and was not in love with anything in his life. No passion for hunting..fishing..our home..our dog..me....nothing. He says he wishes he could change his feelings. He contradicts himself all the time. He is all over the place. He says so much stuff then says you always talk over me..hes never heard. I told him im not the enemy. He says he is and has been trying to tell me that. OUR beautiful english lab is not lazy. Hes angry that i watched the phone records but i told him you kept lying and put me in this situation. Does the alcohol disease cause people to deattach their love to their spouse. Low self esteem? It just seems like hes running from all his problems

Ldmblack

We had a great marriage. We had everything in common from hunting..fishing..snowmobilng. outdoor stuff. We both love flowers and landscape projects. I cooked awesome food and smoked food too (he doesnt cook) He has communication anger issues and would always say hes working on that. I had to take care of the finances. He wasnt good at that. He did alot of things for me but it seems like the last 8 yrs it was all about him and beer drinking. Why would a 54 yr old man leave a great wife ..home and upcoming retirement future together and destroy all that. Now hes leaving. Im getting house and half his 401. Hes living with friends. He has no plan of action and relies on everyone else. Neither one of us will be able to retire like what was planned. It makes no sense. Throw it all away

Ldmblack

Also he is always telling everyone that he messed up and has to go fix himself. Hes losing his beautiful wife and home...... im not kicking him out..hes the one leaving. His parents were alcoholics and his dad cheated on his mom...he told me he never wanted to be like his dad and look what happened. Does alcohol abuse cause cheating?

sage1969

He's all over the place because maybe a part of him does want to have everything your relationship used to be. The problem is that the alcohol will always come first. The addiction is so strong that he is looking through a filter that will cause him to reject anything that might get in the way of his addiction. The behaviors, the affairs, all of that is a smokescreen for the addiction. And sadly, none of that will make sense to anyone on the wrong side of the filter, the smokescreen -- we won't ever be able to understand the logic of the addicted mind, other than to understand the generalisation that the alcohol will always come first and that the addiction will protect itself at the expense of everything else.

SparkleKitty

Alcohol abuse doesn't cause cheating.

Unresolved issues cause both alcoholism and cheating. Everything is an attempt to get something from others (people and things) that he never learned to give himself.

He's not relationship material right now, and probably never really has been. But in his need and desire to pretend he is happy he has managed to fake it for some time.

I know this is going to sound insane, but what he is doing actually has nothing to do with you or with your marriage. He is reaching a crisis point in a journey that began long before you ever met, and none of his tried-and-true tactics for looking like a healthy, well-adjusted human being are working anymore. He will either face his demons and deal with them, or he won't. You can't make that choice for him, nor can you give him the will to make the choice you want him to.

Sometimes the kindest thing we can do for others and for ourselves is to let go. This isn't "giving up" -- "giving up" implies you are engaged in a battle that can possibly be won by you. This is HIS fight, and it always has been.

Cookie314

They're hard questions, and none of us have the answers to them sadly. I don't know if addiction causes cheating, or this loss of feeling he's describing, or the other things you've gone through. It's often a very tangled mess of causes and effects. We know that having alcoholism in the family increases the odds of someone becoming an addict themselves, but it isn't a guarantee. Just as some people develope addictions despite no family history, others have it on their families, but are not addicts themselves.

I think the disease model of addiction has a lot of merit and accuracies, but it doesn't explain everything for every case, because everyone is an individual. It sounds like your husband is also struggling with other mental health issues, such as depression. It's quite common for addicts to have other mental illnesses like that, often playing off the other. It is impossible to say if one causes the other, likely they are both present in some measure, and over time fuel one another.

Brain chemistry plays a major role in this as well. It's well documented how long term addiction changes a person's brain, reducing the levels and efficacy of chemicals like dopamine. He may have been feeling the effects of his drinking and other issues for a long time, and has only now reached a breaking point. Alcoholism is progressive, and the damage done by heavy drinking is cumulative. Often addicts function for many years, until the total damage and increased consumption reaches a tipping point, and the balance is broken.

I can't say if addiction causes cheating. My first impulse is to say not directly, I would guess that dandylion is closer to the mark. Addiction often starts as a way to relieve pain and stress, and it wouldn't surprise me if cheating in this case is another form of pain relief or grasping for novelty.

I know this is so painful to experience. That feeling of loss and confusion is so sharp. It's common for addicts to act in hurtful, contradictory ways, but that doesn't make it any easier to understand. Instead of trying to make sense of the unreasonable, it helps to instead focus on what you can do for yourself during this time. Communities like this, zoom meetings, al anon, etc are great places to learn more about addiction and heart the stories of others. You aren't alone in this pain. It will take time to make peace with what has happened, and release that sense of guilt for it. I know it's hard to hear and believe things like the 3 C's, because I struggled with that too. Everyone does. You've done the best you can this whole time, and while his choice to leave is a hurtful one, you know in your heart you did all you could. It's OK to feel confused and upset, and to question how and why. It will take time, but you will heal from this.

Ldmblack

Yes this is so very painful to go thru and watch someone you love self destruct. He told me last week that he is dealing with a bunch of demons and somehow he needs to fix them.

He also said that he does not love the man he is and he if doesnt love himself how can he love anyone. That does not justify to leave a marriage. He apologized and said hes sorry for ruining us and doing what he did to me BUT apparently I am not worth keeping that hurts even more.

Has anyone every heard of couples getting back together after a divorce? I am bound and determined to win his heart back again (someday)

dandylion

Ldm.........I propose that you can't "win his heart back" because this is not about you.
I. also, suggest that you read "Co-dependent No More", which is the most frequently recommended book on this forum. You can get it on amazon.com or at any library.
It is easy to read and I think that a lot of it is going to resonate with you.

Cookie314

Did he actually say "you are not worth keeping", or is that what you feel like he means? If he's the one that said that, it's a very underhanded and hurtful thing to do. If not though, it's a very unfair way to think of yourself. Your worth is not determined by someone else's choices.

I know what he's doing is painful, it sounds like he's really struggling with himself and what to do about it. The way he decides to go about finding those answers is something only he can do, and sometimes the choices he makes will be ones you don't agree with or understand. I know it's easy to turn blame on yourself, when no other explination seems possible, but that's just not the case. You didn't cause this disease, and you can't control his choices. I'm sorry the ones he's making are hurting you so.

dandylion

Ldm......We all understand how traumatic and painful this turn of events is for you. Needless to say that we all have empathy for you, as we have all been through your kind of pain in one way or another.
Here is another concept for you to give some consideration to------when we have been treated badly by someone, it is not always the actual Love that we miss---it is really the security that we miss. Fear of the Unknown can make us cling even harder to anything that represents security, to us.
Love is not supposed to hurt---and does not treat us poorly.

SparkleKitty

What would happen if you were instead "bound and determined" to be the healthiest, happiest person you could be, regardless of what he does or doesn't do?

edoering

I feel your pain in trying to understand, but I promise you the more you try to understand, the more pain you will inflict!

Unresolved issues and alcoholism don’t make sense, at least not to a brain that isn’t battling those issues. The more I tried to step into my husband’s “world” at the time of our separation, the more ungrounded, confused, heartbroken, etc I got. Addiction is such a strange beast because it fights for its own survival, even when it’s survival is destroying the “host” as it were. What things make us want to drink or use drugs? Misery, lack of self-love, unresolved issues, isolation. To be in recovery means to be fighting those things (resolving trauma, self-love, community and connection, coping skills, etc). Addiction itself wants those things to persist so you keep using, so the substances keep coming first.

Addiction can also get really sneaky, and hide itself in the guise of “healing” to convince your loved one to do things that actually contribute to the cycle of addiction. Sometimes, people will even seem to do actions that are like self-fulfilling prophecies, they feel unworthy of love so they wind up doing something to prove it. And then they feel awful and the addiction is there to wrap them up and swallow them whole.

Why would you want to spend any time in that brain space? In that crazy, upside-down world? In my own case, I think I wanted to understand because I thought if I understood I could “control” the situation. I could fix it. I could “explain” it to my husband and make him see the truth. But the truth is I couldn’t control a damn thing. And the truth was he wouldn’t have listened if I did.

I also realized 1) if I truly love my husband, I also need to respect him enough to believe he can save himself. If I don’t believe that, than I shouldn’t actually be in a relationship with him, because that means I don’t actually see him as a whole, healthy person. I do trust him to pull himself out of this, I do believe in him, but I’m also not going to be broken and waste my own life if he doesn’t. So for now, I’m taking care of me and my life.
2) If I truly want us to someday reconcile after he’s actually DEALT with his addiction/mental illness/unresolved issues, I need to make sure there is something left to salvage. I.e. I need to make sure I don’t let this time destroy me so much that there’s too much pain and damage to come back from. I need to make sure my finances are safe so there’s still family resources to come back to. I need to make sure I am also a whole, healthy person so we can meet again as equals if/when the time is right.

It doesn’t matter if you never reconcile or if you do, our job is the same. Love and care for ourselves, and give our partners the chance to do the same. They deserve to know that they can love themselves, take care of themselves, heal themselves, just as much as we do.

trailmix

No, it doesn't make any sense, but, in general, addiction doesn't make much sense to people that aren't addicted (and even to those that are).

You have a man with a great wife, great dog, nice house, money, holidays, life is going along swimmingly. Now he is not interested in anything he used to like, in fact all he seems to be interested in is drinking.

That actually is the truth, his interest, his focus, is drinking. This has nothing to do with you personally. That is alcoholism.

Men and women leave their wives, husbands, children, babies every day to pursue that.

I would really recommend learning as much as you can about alcoholism (for you, not for him), that will help you to understand that this isn't actually about you. I hope you will read around this forum as well and you will no doubt see many threads that resonate with you.

The most important thing and one that you will see often on this forum is to look after yourself, focus back on yourself.

Ldmblack

No he did not say I wasnt worth keeping but when I said it to him that I wanted to be the one worth fighting for he never responded to me. I told him that I never gave on him and he says he never gave up on himself either. (What does that even mean) I do feel like a failure - like I never saw any of this coming before the first affair and these last 4 years has been a roller coaster and I was the one who got thrown off the tracks. It is really disheartening that he says he loves me but not in love with the program (what the program). He has never told his siblings what has been going on (they know from me) but his sister said that he said he's done wrong and if this is what he needs to do to make things right then it is what it is. I feel like it is a coward/coppout way of thinking.