555Lynn555

I'm just so tired. Tired of it all. Tired of trying to understand it. Tired of trying to be patient. Tired of waiting for the other shoe to drop. Tired of worrying. Tired of waiting. Tired of being tired.

Another relapse and you know as much as I clung to my hope, deep down I saw it coming for a while. It's the way it happened that bothers me even more than that it happened. It was my son's birthday (25) and I worked very hard to make it special (something I've always done)--his favorite cake, his favorite meal, presents, and lots of presence. I took the day off work to make it all happen (also something I've always done with my kids when I could). He seemed happy--he said he was happy. I went to bed---he went out. This time he thought he was clever and went to the store as well as the liquor store so he'd have a "reason". He slept the entire next day. He omitted all the signs I usually see (he worked hard at it) but I knew. If I'm honest with myself, I put in a lot of denial because the truth hurt so much. So the next day he had to get up for a therapist call (telehealth). After, I asked him how it went and he was vague, so I just asked if he talked about the latest relapse---he looked shocked---and I have to say that hurt. It made me angry, but more than anything it just hurt. We have always been so close and it is downright insulting that he really thinks I don't know what's happening in my own house. It's really painful that he can look me in the eye and lie to me like that. Anyway without sharing the word for word conversation, I let him know I'm not stupid and reiterated that this is the second time he has brought alcohol into my house since I banned it.

This was the moment. The moment that I realized that despite all of my reading and working and trying that I am still in the same place. The moment I realized that what I've been calling "hope" is really just denial with a pretty bow on it. I say it out loud--that he still isn't in the right head space for recovery. I say it to him---that recovery is healing your whole self (physically, mentally, emotionally) not just sobriety. I know it---that he is just white knuckling it from one personal best to the next and waiting for his "attaboy" for it (which he gets at his recovery center btw). And worst of all I know that there are so many more of these in the future. He doesn't want to do the work. He knows he needs to, he knows how it is impacting him physically, he knows how it is impacting our family, he knows it is contraindicative to everything he is trying to achieve---but at the end of the day, the work is hard and he doesn't really want to do it.

I've read so much. I've read here and everywhere else. This is "normal". This is what it looks like. This won't change until he decides to change it. It doesn't matter what I say. It doesn't matter what I do. It doesn't matter what his doctors say. It doesn't matter what his therapist says. I get it. I know it. What I think I have a hard time getting my head around is how a person can know all of it and have a literal team of support in every part of their life and just choose to hurt themselves anyway. I don't think I'm ever going to understand that piece. I know that I don't have to understand it--I have to accept it as real and something I can't change. I keep thinking I've done that and cerebrally I have---but emotionally is something else because this is my child and his pain is my pain.

Everyone seems to be of the belief that the answer is to cut him off and kick him out and everyone might be right, but that is not something I feel capable of doing. It might be my codependency, but mostly it just isn't the kind of person I want to be. When I say that I usually hear that if I'm not willing to cut him off and kick him out then I just have to accept this pain and expect it to multiply. Really? Letting go of your kid is the only path to recovery? That seems so crazy to me---but so does everything about this.

I don't know what I expect from posting this. I think I just need a safe space to let it out. That makes sense because letting it out has left me ugly crying. I just got up and already I'm just so tired.

Cookie314

I'm sorry Lynn, that feeling of exhaustion and hopelessness is something nearly all of us have experienced. It's a painful place to be in. I don't think anyone, even the addicts themselves, are fully capable of understanding why they continue to harm themselves and others while surrounded by support. I think you worded it well though, you don't need to understand it to accept it for what it is. I think time is one of the only things that has made that emotional aspect easier.

I do want to say though that not everyone believes kicking him out and cutting him out of your life is the right answer. It's an option, and one that works for many people, but there are no perfectly correct answers. One of the reasons it's so commonly advocated is because it helps to maintain your safety and sanity (especially in the cases where the addict threatens physical harm to those around them, though mental and emotional safety are important too.)

I wouldn't say you need to let go of your child, but more that you need to let go of their addiction. As you are feeling now, there's nothing you can do to cure or control his addiction. Many people find that continuing to keep that close contact with their addict makes it impossible to relinquish that control, and remove themselves from the situation to facilitate that.

It is good to be honest with yourself in all this. If you know you can't completely separate yourself from him, that's ok. It simply means you'll need to find the boundaries that allow you to continue to function, no matter how dysfunctional he becomes. While our loved one's recovery is something we all crave desperately, the ultimate goal for us, as individuals, is to be able to continue forward with our own lives, even while surrounded by chaos. Some people do this with physical distance, limited contact, emotional boundaries, etc.

I've posted before about the difference between boundaries and rules. Both are healthy to have, but serve different purposes "No alcohol in the house" is a rule, since it is controlling others actions. It's a good one, but in order for it to function must be enforceable. It's like how a fine for breaking a law only makes it a punishment for people who can't afford to pay. If his only consequence for breaking that rule is being shamed for it, then weathering that scolding is simply the fine he pays. If you want to have rules that he will follow, you must have consequences that are proper, and you can follow through on. You can see where that gets tricky, since the rule is only as strong as your willingness to enforce it. If you have a rule you want respected, but cannot enforce, it's often just a matter of time until an addict bends or breaks it. This is part of why so many people find getting separate housing from their addict so integral to their own recovery. You cannot control them, and while you live together, you will likely not be able to control your own environment.

Your boundaries are your responses to events and stimuli. An example is "I will not engage in discussions with you while you are drunk" or "I will not respond to your insults or bait" etc. He will continue to do and act as he desires, but those boundaries give you the emotional breathing room you need to disengage from toxic situations.

I can't say if keeping him in your life as he is now will cause your pain to multiply, only that the continuing connection leaves the door open for more potential hurt. Watching your loved one slowly poison themselves is draining to you as well. Just as their addiction pulls their brains through cycles of stress, the trauma of watching this unfold pulls yours through the same cycles. You don't have to go no contact, kick him out, or cut him from your life. Focus on your own self care and health to create a still pool for you to exist in within the eye of the storm addiction creates. Some people do that with distance, others with reaching out to their network, others with groups and therapy, etc. You must find what allows you to create a healthy environment, that hopefully some day he'll be able to take part of.

dustyfox

Lynn, I read your post and it could have been me writing about my much younger daughter who has a different issue but it plays out in the same way, so many similarities, and I have the same emotional response. So all I can do is send virtual hug and say you are being an amazing Mum and one day he will realise. it.

PeacefulWater12

So sorry you have this going on. I hear you on being so tired. I was tired to the bone with it all. Same insane behaviours. Over and over.

From your share it would suggest that the reason you are finding it so much harder and painful now is because you are coming out of your denial and seeing more clearly what is going. I was the same. Reality hits hard and is hard to accept and deal with.

Decide what is best for you in how you move forward. Take care.

dandylion

Lynn.....I can see that you are taking his actions very personally.....when you say that it is very painful that he can look you in the eye and lie to you....you mention, several times how hurt you felt. You expressed that it was more about how it happened than the fact that he actually drank. You felt hurt that he might assume that you are stupid enough to be tricked.
It looks like the way you assume that he feels about you and the family/home, etc. is the searing pain that you feel. I am a mother, so I know that feeling---as I was in your same shoes at one time.
I feel so bad for you----and, I wish that you knew that this has nothing to do with his feelings about you and for you. It really doesn't. This is what an alcoholic does---when they are not in genuine recovery, that is. Alcoholics drink. They drink by any way they can manage to. It is a powerful compulsion that they act on because of the way their brain is wired. It is about the neurotransmitters in their brain---especially serotonin and dopamine. That is the physical aspect. The psychological part of it is that it is their pain-reliever for their strong emotions---both good and bad strong emotions.
He doesn't drink because he doesn't love you enough, or because he doesn't respect you enough, or, because he thinks you are easy to trick, or easy to lie to----he drinks because he is an alcoholic and that is what alcoholics do---they drink because, the them, they MUST drink.
To the alcoholic, the alcohol is a part of them. It is not seen as a seperate thing---the way you can see alcohol as a seperate thing. To him, it still feels like so much a part of him that he cannot---cannot---see living without it. Without it, it feels like he would cease to exist.
Just like the goldfish cannot see living without water---or you cannot imagine living without breathing.

None of what he is doing is about you.
I hope you can come to understand that---because it can help to alleviate so much of your own personal pain (and feelings of guilt and responsibility) about this.

If you stop enabling him in certain ways---it does Not mean that you have stopped loving him. If he loved you at 6 yrs. of age--he will always carry his love for you deep in his heart. That does not go away.

One time, a psychologist, who was a recovering alcoholic himself, told me something that I have never forgotten---that no child (of any age) ever gets sober while leaning on the parent in the parent's house. I have watched carefully, since then, and. so far---he is right by everything I have seen. My son never got sober until he was out of my house. God knows how much suffering I went through.

SparkleKitty

Hi Lynn. I am really sorry you are dealing with this.

I think the kind of black and white thinking you are describing (the extreme of "cutting him off and kicking him out") is not really a helpful narrative for someone in your position. Experience -- like Dandylion's above, like Ann's wealth of experience on display everyday on the Friends and Family of Substance Abusers sister forum -- shows that it is extremely possible to do what you need to do in order to maintain your boundaries (such as not living with an alcoholic) and continuing to love your son. Experience also tells us it is possible to love your son deeper and deeper into his addiction by never allowing him to feel the full consequences of his behavior. It also tells us it is possible to make yourself physically sick from waiting for him to change so you don't have to be the one who changes in order to take care of yourself.

Whatever you decide, I hope you know you will find tremendous support here and no judgment.

555Lynn555

Thank you does not seem like enough to say here, but thank you---thank you all.
First, I didn't mean to sound judgmental toward those that chose to evict their adult children, particularly when there was abusive behavior, but in all instances. I feel like it would be easy to take that from how I phrased my struggle with it and I really think that these situations are so complicated that no one should ever be judged for their decisions---whether they turn out to be right or wrong. I just wanted to say that.

Cookie, thank you for all that you said, but particularly for the part about boundaries, rules and consequences. I realize that this is the place I am struggling the hardest. I absolutely am codependent and while trying to work on this I've learned that I was taught to be early in childhood and have been my entire life---so yeah boundaries are hard for me. I know my no alcohol in my house is a rule and the consequences of that remain a point I feel lost over. I can't not have the rule, but yeah what is the consequence that I can actually control other than kicking him out? When we had our talk this time I alluded to consequences with "don't make have this conversation a third time because you're going to force me to make decisions I don't want to make". So I might as well have said, do whatever you want and I won't do anything about it other than talk. I'm sure that's what he heard. I have to figure it out--I know---I just don't know the answer yet.

Dusty--I'll take all the hugs I can get It really does help just to know you understand. Thank you.

Peaceful---thank you. I never really thought of it that way, but that makes so much sense.

Dandylion--I do know that he loves me and that it isn't about me---in my head. It still hurts my heart. I think these things hurt so much because they are so polar opposite from my son (the one I've always known) and I know that son so well....and I don't know this drunk living in my house at all. So yeah, sounds like I'm bouncing around that drama triangle like a pinball--point taken (whether you were trying to make that point or not ) If he can't get sober in my house I have no idea what to do. I'm not there. Kicking him out is not something I can live with at this time. I may not always feel this way, but today, I do. He MUST drink---that is so hard for me. I'm trying.

Sparkle--thank you. I understand what you are saying and I don't think that living apart from my son equates to not loving him, I just don't feel like, in my situation, it is a loving thing to do. I've sat here for a while staring at this screen---starting and stopping---because I don't want to say what I'm about say-------------------I realize that it may come to that. And just typing those words--that version of saying it out loud---makes me feel awful. There is more to that feeling than just the surface statement---it comes from our entire familial history. For 20 years it's been the 3 of us (I also have another son)---through everything good and bad, difficult and more difficult---and you don't just quit. Quitting literally feels like a death to me. To a "normal" (whatever that is) person that probably sound like killing myself slowly with stress the same way my son is killing himself slowly with alcohol---and that may be true, but it was honest.

SparkleKitty

I complete understand where you are coming from, and this is the last I’ll say on the subject, but — gently — I will say that equating “letting go of” with “quitting on” someone is a choice, not an inevitability. What would you be quitting, exactly?

555Lynn555

My son is an alcoholic. My son has mental health issues. My son has very high functioning autism. He has been determined permanently disabled for his mental health issues. So when I say quitting on him, that's what I'm thinking---that it's kind of giving up or at least giving up unless or until...

dandylion

Lynn.....I know that you are not "there" yet. I wasn't for a long time, either. I will say that, over the years, I have learned a lot and have come to some different perspectives, over the years. I will, also, say that each stage of understanding and learning (about this subject) came with great agony and internal turmoil. It was not easy and I probably cried enough tears to change the water table.
I went through what you are going through, now. Damn...I wish that soberrecovery had been around for me then!!!
Finally, the day came when I had to say to my son----I love you, but, I am no longer going to let alcoholism and it's destructiveness enter this home, again.
I can only see you or talk to you when you are entirely sober. I will not enable you any more---and I pray that you will forgive me for the times that I have enabled you. I was so ignorant.
Guess what he did. He moved to a tent in the woods. Carefully hidden, he lived in the woods near a very posh shopping center, only a short distance from ny house.
Now..this was a very intelligent and very resourceful guy. He managed to live by ingenious means---and by working.
We were, also, very close---like I imagine that you are with your son.
He would often come over to the house---I could tell if he had even a sip of beer. We would visit, and, sometimes, he would help me do some chores. Sometimes, we would just sit on the porch and talk. Sometimes we would have a sandwich and iced tea and just laugh and talk about any manner of things. What I did do was not say any more about quitting the drink or give in to any guilt feelings about how he was living. When he called himself "homeless"----I told him that he was NOT homeless---he just had a home that he refused to live in. He had resented, at that time, that I had pushed the idea of AA for him. After he moved to the woods---when he brought up his resentment of AA----I asked him not to talk about AA. I told him----"AA is for Quitters". lol.
He came to the house for special celebrations---like for Christmas and Thanksgiving dinners...to help dye Easter Eggs....for his birthday celebration----as long as he was totally sober!
This went on for a long time. I never in all my life thought that I would see one of my kids living in the woods!!!
However, I will say that it was such a relief to have the alcoholic behavior out of the house, But, I still had my son's heart and I knew that much. For all of that, I was thankful.
I think that that period of time was a real turning point, for me---the first turning point. There were others to come, but, that one was a real biggie.
I learned that "family" and mothering and love is not always about having every one under one roof----Norman Rockwell Style. It is what is carried in the heart. Home is where the heart is----so to speak.

Lynn...I am not trying to convince you of any particular thing----just sharing my own experiences with the kind of thing you are dealing with.

Cookie314

I think sparkle and dandylion are correct to point out your focus on "quitting" and "letting go." When you draw those boundaries for yourself and consequences for their actions, that isn't meant to be a punishment. Some actions carry immediate consequences (such as touching a hot stove leading directly to being burned), while some consequences come from the response of others.

When dandylion said: "When he called himself "homeless"----I told him that he was NOT homeless---he just had a home that he refused to live in."
She showed the perfect example of the natural consequences of a crossed boundary. Her son's choice to drink was his to make, and the consequence of choosing to drink was finding his own housing. It's one of those examples where the lines between rule and boundary can be muddled, depending on the wording, but ultimately shows her taking control of her own environment. She created a healthy space that he is welcome to partake in, if he chooses.

To loop back to quitting or letting go, my point was that she found a way to create that border between herself and his chaos, while still being supportive and compassionate. He was free to choose to join that space, or to drink. You will find your own path to support your son with compassion and empathy while still protecting yourself.

On the other end of that spectrum is my experience with my AH. We stayed together in the same house for quite a while through his initial attempts at recovery. He went through a long string of mixed successes and challenges until things came to a head, and he was hospitalized a bit more long term. Though he had been maintaining his recovery after his return from rehab, the damage done between us reached a point where I felt that I couldn't stay, even if this start on recovery was "the one." We still stay in contact, but living separately has helped me to distance myself from that hurt, and change my boundaries. My biggest one being I do my best not to rise to hurtful words, argument bait, that's, etc. That helps save me from myself, and prevents things from devolving to a point where neither of us have anything productive to say.

My point with all that is that even if my boundary is crossed, and I stop responding to him or whatever, that does not mean I've given up on his recovery. It's simply my response to a negative stimulus, and the way I disengage from the chaos. I still hope for his success, and believe he can make it. No longer being his wife doesn't mean that I don't support his recovery, only that the nature of my support has changed.

Like several of us have said before, none of this is to make you feel like you have to kick him out. Only to point out that:
1. If things reach that point, doing so isn't a sign that you don't love him or are giving up on him.
2. Focusing on your own health is also a way to help him.

Think of it another way, if you were to "kill yourself slowly with stress the same way your son is killing himself slowly with alcohol", what would that accomplish?

The three C's are made for this exact point. You didn't cause this, and can't cure or control it. The best thing you can do for both of you is to take care of yourself. What form that care takes is up to you.

trailmix

Giving up hope that he can get in to recovery? If he's not drinking in your house or living elsewhere, that's not giving up hope in my book really. You can love him and care about him and even hope he will quit without him drinking in your house.

You set a boundary, which isn't really helpful unless you have a plan for when that boundary is crossed. If someone is drunk or drinks in my house then - then what? You have the boundary, just the second part of your boundary is missing. Perhaps, I won't let anyone in my house who has been drinking, if they are drinking in my house they will have to leave until they are sober. Otherwise it's just you - wishing, you know? Or just a rule that no one is going to follow. You can't really set rules for adults, as you know.

Your original post above, you are spot on in so many areas.

Do you believe you are helping him? (I'm really asking, not trying to be argumentative or have a preconceived notion of how you will answer).

2getheryetalone

Oh my gosh, your thoughts are my thoughts exactly. I also know it's hard otherwise there wouldn't be so many groups and programs for this disease. But I just can't comprehend how my partner can choose the bottle over his kid or his family. He knows it was banned in my house too. But he finds a way. He knows he's at risk of having to move out and lose parenting rights, but he chooses a drink. I cannot understand how or why. It makes it the most painful that even though we're there to help, we still get lied to and treated as the enemy. Because we're in the way. We're the obstacle. How can I love someone who sees me that way? After 10 years, I just don't know when to give up 'hope'.

555Lynn555

Dandylion thank you so much for sharing your experience. I can't even imagine how difficult that was for you. I admire your strength.
Cookie--I'm trying hard to figure out how to care for myself and as crazy it it sounds I've realized that I don't know what that looks like--not really. A therapist I saw a while back asked me, "what do you need?" and I couldn't answer---because I truly had never stopped to consider that and no one had ever asked me before. So I've started from zero---but I'm not at zero any longer and I'm working on it.
Trailmix--it is a great question. I am confident that I am helping him in many ways. He has told me that if it weren't for me he probably wouldn't be here. I believe that some of what I tell him gets across---not always immediately but eventually. I believe that I have helped him see that he needs therapy. I believe that I helped him see that he needs help with his alcoholism. Am I helping him with sobriety? Well that is a bit tricky--I am helping him find the resources he needs to be successful but I can't help him in more tangible ways with that--he has to do that work. Believe me, if I could do it for him--in full or in part--it would be done...but I can't.

sage1969

555lynn555,
I'm sorry for this pain. I'm sorry for what you are going through.

One of my children is in a treatment center for similar diagnoses; my worry is whether they will be able to live independently, and what it will look like when they are able to discharge.

As a codie, and as a person in recovery, it has been so difficult as a parent also. So many of the others here have offered so much wisdom, so I can't really expand on any of that. Just know that you have support here.

PeacefulWater12

Your post, Lynn, was in my mind. The word "TIRED".

For me, that sums up the whole horrible experience of being with an alcoholic. It is so tiring, exhausting. Sucks all life away.

Sending supportive virtual hugs to you.

555Lynn555

Thank you. I
2gether--yes---all of it is just so hard to accept. It's like the expression you can't believe your own eyes but deep down in your heart and soul instead.
Sage---I have the same fear and if I'm honest, I don't think independent living is ever going to be an option. He used to have dreams of his own family and I'm not sure how that happens from here.
Peaceful--hugs back

Sincerely, to all of you, thank you. Thank you for reading, thank you for responding, thank you for sharing. I appreciate you so much more than I can express.

SparkleKitty

We're all here for you, Lynn, and I just want to say that coming here and spending some time on YOUR concerns and YOUR pain and YOUR struggle with people who get *is* an expression of self care--so you may not be as behind the curve as you fear in that respect.

Your son's challenges are not inconsiderable, that's for certain. But there is lots of experience here that should give you hope that it is possible to find a way forward that doesn't take such a toll on you. Whatever that way is going to look like, the first step on that journey is keeping your eyes open and your expectations realistic. Awareness, Acceptance, and Action--one thing at a time, in your own time, in a way that works for you.

555Lynn555

Thank you so much Sparkle---it truly means a lot to me.

edoering

You’ve inspired me to think of something in a new way! (Preface, this may not really apply in your specific case, if was just inspired by these posts).

”Giving up” can mean so many different things. In some ways, no matter what decisions we make, we are giving something up. For instance, obviously stopping engaging/helping can looks like “giving up.” But helping someone can be described as “giving up on believing they can help themselves.” Separating from my husband can look like “giving up.” But choosing to stay and pick his needs first over everything else (us, our healthy relationship patterns, myself, etc) could look like “giving up on our relationship.” I guess, we are forced to surrender something, we only get to decide what it is we are surrendering and why?