sage1969

I read over the first posts I made in this forum. It's been slightly over a month since I found SR. I almost don't recognise that Sage.

I will be honest, I still struggle, I still have times when I really just want to numb out, when I make bad choices, when I don't say kind or thoughtful things. But I think I'm past the worst of it. I'm not likely to jump back into anything, even a text conversation, with my XABF. I wonder if I will ever find what I had wanted with my XABF, a real relationship, but to be honest, I'm not certain I can tolerate anything like what I've already been through. I've always been a people - watcher, and the people I see day - to - day, I see why I thought it was ok to live the way I'd been living, even just watching other parents waiting for their children's sports, I realise, no wonder! When the culture is to get up in everyone else's business in gossip, or bring a solid coloured coffee cup so the kiddies don't realise it has alcohol in it, or the kinds of conversations I've overheard -- I'd want none of these people as partners or coparents. Is there no one out there who lives a sober life in recovery?!

I have been thinking about my experience with XABF and other relationships, and reading others' stories here, and I'm realising that codies have a tendency to fall in love with the first person they bump into, don't seem to understand how to date (that it's a selection process and not necessarily the first day of forever after), how to evaluate potential partners, or how to let go of something that doesn't suit us (I don't think I've ever told someone I dated I didn't think we suited each other). I think part of it has to do with our families and how our society defines relationships, and it's not improved by the "love at first sight" stories scattered all over television and in movies.

So I'm wondering if we can talk about this?

PeacefulWater12

Thank you for bringing this subject up, Sage.

I think the men I was attracted to matched my dysfunction. They were a perfect fit to the role of dysfunction I grew up with.

I did realise later that I didn't actually like them. As people I didn't like any of them.

sage1969

Peaceful, I agree with you. Whatever energy I carried then was like a great neon sign on my forehead. I think we've talked about this in other posts, that we are different now in the way we carry ourselves, that we simply no longer attract what we used to.

That being said, I know there are books out there about how to build healthy relationships, which I will read, but I actually have no idea how to do it. Everything I've been conditioned to do since childhood is so off.

I have made a few good friends, friends whom I trust and are so much healthier in the way they approach life and relationships, and for that I'm grateful. But only a few. And I find where I live is mostly lonely for me because those few friends seem the only sane ones out there. And I have to keep my FOO at arms length. So I'm attempting to find a good balance in which to raise my children, but it is a very small world for them, because I'm attempting to find healthy places for them to be.

I think about all the places people say to go to meet new people (and I'm simply going for friends right now; I'm not certain I'm ready for anything romantic), and none of these are places I can go. I've walked away from my religious community, from all the places I volunteered; it seemed all these connections were ones that codie me made, and when I was no longer willing to give my all, I lost value to the people in those places. I'm in the tender - pink - new - skin, scab - just - fell - off stages, and I think any sort of volunteering would really test my recovery. I don't live in a small town, but sometimes it seems that way. It seems substance use and abuse is so common and accepted here, in all demographics.

OKRunner

I had extreme self-loathing due to a non-drinking but extremely dysfunctional in every other way family growing up. When my alcoholic ex-boyfriend said he liked me, I thought that I had to like him too. After all, who else would like me? This was my thinking -- despite an incredible career, advanced degrees, a beautiful home, awesome dogs, great colleagues, and on and on. It sounds insane. But it is the way I thought.

I read your post with interest because now I am going to view dating very differently. I'm interested in searching for and finding someone who is healthy, someone who likes to travel, someone who likes to do healthy things, both physically and relationship wise. Maybe someone who makes fewer promises but whose actions actually match the promises he makes. The key is "searching for." I'm sure it's going to take a lot of dates and a lot of mis-matches, but I know what I want and I'm interested in finding that. Not the other way around; that is, not agreeing to be with any guy who express an interest in me.

The last year (the year recovering from my ex and our roller-coaster situation) has without a doubt been the worst of my life. I cried myself to sleep more times than I can count. But I can honestly say that I almost am glad it happened now? Because I feel so much stronger. Because I know myself so much better. Because if I can get over him, I can do anything. And I did get over him. And I'm ready to not make the same mistakes again.

sage1969

Yes. Exactly my way of thinking for so many years. And so, over and over again, I settled rather than looking for a true partner.

That and / or going after guys that I found attractive yet were just cookie - cutter images of all the bad relationships of my past. I've had to come to terms with needing time to heal, needing time to cherish myself and who I really am, and perhaps in the future I might be ready, but I don't think I am now. It sounds as if you've already done all this work, and know exactly who you are and what you want.

I'm inspired by your story, and you've made some truly helpful observations and comments in this forum, over the short time I've been here. It helps me feel some relief that others have gone through this painful and difficult process and made it through to the other side, and that it's not impossible.

Eauchiche

Dear Runner
Whoever came up with the phrase "better to have loved and lost than not loved at all," didn't know what the hell they were talking about.
I'm more interested in good solid friends who are healthy than in a romantic relationship. I wish you the best in your quest.

PeacefulWater12

Amen, this is exactly where I am at too. I am enjoying it. No pressure, just going along taking life in the natural flow.

Sage, I relate to what you say about being raw, tender stage so I am treating myself with extra special care.

Interesting you mention voluntary work, I had always thought that when my husband died and I would have free time on my hands that I would like to do voluntary work. I have done quite a lot in the past and enjoyed it at the time. (I am retired). BUT now that time is here I can see there is no way on earth I want to get involved in voluntary work. I can also see that when I did it in the past, I ended up doing the work of a full time worker but for no pay. Once they realise they have a willing codie on their hands, they take advantage big time!!

I know in recovery we are "meant to be of service to others" but for me part of my recovery is being of service to me and me only. Certainly for the time being. I do some service work within my 12 step work but I have great boundaries in place on it.

PeacefulWater12

Just some thoughts now. Ok so for us codies messed up relationships are our version of what alcohol is for a drinker.

Thing is as we start to recover and start to see things for what they really are, it gets to where there is no "buzz" to be had from dashing into yet another sick relationship trying to rescue an alkie who is staggering along minding their own business getting hammered and train wrecking their life.

Once our denial that we are genuinely helping someone has lifted and we can see the truth that we are not helping and that actually it is up to the alkie to seek recovery if and when they want it and that it is up to us to take care of ourselves. For us to focus on ourselves and getting ourselves a more healthy outlook in life. This then means even if we do take on another alkie rescue mission, it won't feel right to us and it certainly won't give that anxiety driven high that we used to get.

Knowledge cures the sickness. We can't unlearn it.

We were talking about this in another thread.

That a headful of knowledge ruins the pleasure of diving into an dysfunctional relationship for us, or a drink for a drinker.

For it all to work, it all has to be hidden and unaware.

So if I met a clone of my late husband now, I wouldn't even notice him, whereas when I met him about 15 years ago, the me of then lit up and his dysfunction ticked every box in my head for me.

All these ramblings are really boiling down to knowledge is absolutely key.

sage1969

Peaceful, yes, I'd agree that knowledge and understanding are key. I have a greater understanding of addiction and codependency. I'd lived it my whole life, but now I have the knowledge of why.

Part of my problems start where I love knowledge and understanding the why. I read, I research . . . but the knowledge gets wrapped up in ego and I do too much thinking. Somewhere in me there is a disconnect between knowledge and practical implimentation. Thirty years ago I could give the same summary I can today about addiction and codependency. What was missing was the practical way red flags feel, how it feels when my boundaries are being tested -- I didn't know how to feel these or implement these.

Many times in the past weeks I've been focusing on the difference between ego and spirit. Ego and the thinking mind get me wrapped into a snarl of knots, every single time. When I let go of ego, things flow. I'm not certain how to reconcile all of it, as knowledge is important. For me, allowing everything to come from the Creator has helped to guide me. When it all flows correctly, I can sometimes compare, and nothing that flows from Spirit contradicts the underlying knowledge.

But how does this translate to building friendships and relationships . . . that's where I've gotten stuck. So perhaps I'm not ready, or I'm overly cautious, or I'm thinking too hard.

advbike

As a codependent man this is so true for me. I tend to look outside myself for external validation and gratification. I always pick the worst partners, or let them pick me, lol. Especially those who "need fixing", because of my underlying need to rescue people, which of course I can't. Normal, healthy people seem so boring. It started in my family of origin with my mom, after my alcoholic father left us. The hardest part is letting go of a bad relationship, or telling someone you don't think it's going to work out, because the guilt is overwhelming. It's almost impossible for me to do because I see it as so selfish to not sacrifice myself.

Thanks for starting the thread.

sage1969

This true for me also. I used to thrive at sports, especially slalom and road cycling because I loved the adrenaline, and I did them til I broke too many parts of me. Relationships have been the same for me, in the past I have chosen drama over boredom. I think I've reversed that trend . . . drama now makes me feel anxious and sick to my stomach (i.e., the adrenaline rush now makes me feel sick). I much prefer serenity and calm now (and my surgeon has given me a list of things he won't fix anymore).

Yes, we were raised in my FOO that family was everything and you gave whatever was needed and necessary, even if it meant sacrificing what you wanted or needed, so in that time, standing up for what I might need instantly triggered guilt within myself and negative talk from family members.

Of course, yes, family is important, but a person shouldn't have to routinely give up everything for someone else. And in a healthy family, there is give and take, so that it is more a situation of compromise and everyone having some needs met. And as a parent I've had to come to peace with myself about the difference between what I am able to provide materially and emotionally, and what I can't (if it's not in a budget, they need to get a job; I don't take on "making them happy," that's a skill they've had to learn to do for themselves).

It's just taken me much longer to apply those boundaries to friendships and relationships. It's been a long climb to finding my own self - worth.

PeacefulWater12

Interesting shares, Sage & Advbike.

Oh I hear you on finding normal people "boring". I used to but now as I have worked on my self I absolutely love and embrace the calm, stability of a "normal" person.

I was laughing with someone about how "weird" normal people are. They do what they say they are going to do, they don't mood swing at a whirlwind rate, they don't disappear suddenly for days/weeks getting drunk, they are the same all the time, they don't lie etc etc !!

2ndhandrose

I am loving this thread and each and every share!

Lots of head nodding here.

to everyone!

NewHeart

Hey sage I always love your comments.

I jumped back into dating just as an experiment and to break the first person who says they likes me has to be my boyfriend merry go round.

It was EXHAUSTING. Let me tell you there are so many co dependent behaviors out there that thank the lord turn me off so much now it actually has been a good barometer for my growing health. People planning our lives together after the 2nd date, asking me to move to a different country with them after a week, fantasizing and obsessing about our relationship future after a few meetings. I want to shake them and day "You don't even KNOW me!!" My last romantic relationships all started that way. Thank the lord I have no patience for that.

I'm taking a break from dating right now because I feel like I learned what I wanted to and I really am focused on my 12 step writing and the relationship with my family as my first priority.

If you ever just want to send me a message and let out all the crap that comes with founding a new friendship or dating feel free. Its a rough ride at first but I feel like I'm coming out the other side now.

Also, the belief that there is a scarcity of healthy relationships out there is a codie behavior not reality. Many people do display codie behaviors but as you get healthier you will weed them out and find the healthy ones


This is a good site about codie thought patterns

Notice the one about scarcity of good romantic partners..that applies to friendships as well

https://www.loveaddictionhelp.com/th...-relationships

OKRunner

Sage, I totally made it through the other side and I was about as heartbroken and hurt as one could be. If I can make it, trust me, anyone can make it. And you -- you most certainly can. I know that for sure. Last October I couldn't even look at another man without thinking of my ex. There was literally no desire to be with anyone else. There was actually no desire to be with anyone ... ever again. Somehow in the last month or two, though, I have turned some type of corner. You will too. It just takes patience and gentleness with yourself. I know that's easier said than done. If you knew me, you would know that patience and self-care are not my thing. When someone used to say "be patient" to me, I kind of wanted to write back and insert a vomit emoji. But now I get it.

NewHeart, you are right. Now I can spot other co-dependents, and I just kind of steer clear. It's almost like your tastebuds change? I'm also able to see the independence, self-sufficiency, and lack of co-dependency in others that I didn't see before. That is so much more attractive to me now.

Re: normal people who are boring, some may be, definitely. Totally. But maybe an equal number are not boring? I've gotten to know many of you over the past year just from reading your posts and you are pilots, international businessmen, downhill skiers, road cyclists, surfers, snowboarders, and on and on. I like to ski (really fast), travel (on a moment's notice), run marathons (without really training), and leave work in the middle of the day (to do something fun). We can't be the only ones, you know? I think the key is we need to take the time to find these other people who are just like us. Folks who are healthy and outgoing and fun. We might eat broccoli and free-range chicken for dinner instead of drinking a 20 pack of beer, but we're fun too, you know? I think folks who are not co-dependent just take a bit more energy to find since they aren't magnets to the first people who give them attention.

Eauchiche, I love your point about just having solid healthy non-romantic friendships. The one thing that has been wonderful about this experience is that I've really gotten to cultivate and rely on my friendships with other people and give back to them in their times of need, too. But I also do like romantic relationships. I just do. I always have.

PeacefulWater12

This is what has happened to me. It all my addictions. Thank goodness.

So I am coming at recovery from two angles. I learnt to understand why I was attracted to what I was which was an enormous help, also from the angle of no longer getting a sick excitement from being involved in it.

I notice drinkers in early recovery will comment that life is boring, that codies will say that people are boring. Because the body is no longer producing the rush of chemicals it used to so in comparison everything feels dull.

The body adjusts though and life and people become fun again. As long as we don't pick up the first drink/find ourselves a brand new alkie to obsess over/reconnect with our old alkie.

Have a good day all. I have nice busy one ahead of me with plenty of rest and relaxation along the way.

Eauchiche

I have been watching some documentaries about the opioid crisis in our culture. We can thank some physicians for this, as well as some big pharma companies who got people hooked.
That being said, these new addicts will also spawn new codependents.

I think there are higher rates of recovery in some areas than others. Statistics reflect this. In the other areas, there will be crazymaking behaviors like you describe.

NewHeart

Wow! I never thought of that. Do you know what areas have higher rates of recovery? I am in the midwest so I assume it is one of the more affected areas

Helenlee

I took screen shots of this thread because it resonated with me so much, & this morning I searched it out out again. Do we have a forum here for “love addiction” or does anyone know any good websites to check out please? TIA

LifeRecovery

So interesting. I must have missed this originally, but had a therapy session this week that touches on a lot of the themes mentioned here and I was considering starting my own thread (and am willing to).

After the relationship that got me here I have been really trigger shy about starting new friends and/or intimate relationships. A number of things have come together in the last month to shine a light on this pattern in my life and I was finally ready to dive into it this week in therapy.

We examined my instincts for wanting to help, the individual and cultural influences on that, and my stored resentment around this idea, topic and previous/current behavior. I really came to sit in the statement "Expectations are pre-determined resentments," and uncovered some deeply buried resentments that with time can be released.

We also though talked about my underlying motivation to want to help - to be cared about and to be loved. That I don't have a full sense of trust that I can be liked and loved just for being. I have only considered it as a side effect of being nice or helpful. What a bittersweet sentiment - but one I am grateful to see so I can step back and examine it with some distance. There is nothing wrong about wanting community or love. One thing that I love about recovery is that I have so many more options now, not because they were not there, but because I could not see them. This feels like one of the places that new pathways are being formed for me, though I suspect I will have to give some well trodden pathways up.

My relationship that got me here - I was bound to have it (or one similar to it). Our individual challenges allowed it to be created. My therapist once said that two sick folks can be in relationship (she was not talking about the health of it), two well folks can be in relationship, but relationships often dissolve if one person is working on getting healthy and the other person is not interested in this. However I was probably in that situation to create an opportunity to heal - and I have. That does not discount the pain, hurt or heartbreak, but my capacity for perspective opening has also come from the same place.

I am in process with this, but am relieved. My behaviors have been crazy making and unhealthy, but my capacity for change comes from there too. There is not shame or blame or trying to make this about willpower. I am astonished because I am curious to dig into this, because that is how I feel better. That is enough.

Thanks so much for this post.