I engaged in conversation again..UGH
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I engaged in conversation again..UGH
Needless to say it was through text. It was back and forth a bunch and I don't know why I did it. I started it. I unblocked. I reached out. I do so well and then I get so hurt and angry. He still doesn't think it was wrong what he did. I shouldn't be in shock by his responses. He says things like "he is sorry but has nothing he can say that will make me feel better"... "That sometimes things just don't work out" ..."that I need to stop being a victim"... I mean how how how ... When I told him that he just left me with an hour notice... a 7 year relationship and a marriage just gone in the blink of an eye... he said " what was I suppose to do, give you a 2 week notice"...Then said "Listen Kaya, I am sad that you are sad and if I could take away your heartbreak I would"... But it all seems so fake...and I want to throw something that he STILL doesn't see what he did as problematic...He still said " It isn't great for me out here... I don't have any support or friends out here"... I mean what the ****!!!! It is like he has an inability to give a crap about me...Then he asked if we could be friends and said in a few weeks he would be back in California for a week... Nope Nope Nope..... Nope!!! He said "If it helps you to see me to have a real goodbye than I am open to it...Just no crying or getting upset and yelling!" Nope Nope Nope.... So he leaves me...Leaves me to take care of all the bills, all the trash , ALL the ******* responsibilies .... Then 2 months later he will be in town for a few days and says he is ok seeing me but that I can't be upset if he does!!!! I JUST CANT anymore... Holy crap... This dude as zero empathy!!! Why on gods green earth did I ever find him acceptable... I know he is still drinking daily but he is something else...something more than alcohol...he is a straight up Dick... I thought as time went by he could own his actions even a little... but then he would have to say "Yes alcohol caused this"... and he can't do that.... I had to take a mental health day today... I am so annoyed with myself. I am still looking for some kind of closure from a person who won't ever give it to me.... AGHHHHHHH so mad at myself
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It sounds like you need to keep being reminded of what you already know. You already know he can be pretty heartless and that he sees nothing wrong with what he did. Just the way he talked to you proves that. Hopefully, you have heard all you need to.
As far as closure goes, you don't really need it. You just need to give yourself permission to move on.
As far as closure goes, you don't really need it. You just need to give yourself permission to move on.
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Originally Posted by suki44883 
It sounds like you need to keep being reminded of what you already know. You already know he can be pretty heartless and that he sees nothing wrong with what he did. Just the way he talked to you proves that. Hopefully, you have heard all you need to.
As far as closure goes, you don't really need it. You just need to give yourself permission to move on.
As far as closure goes, you don't really need it. You just need to give yourself permission to move on.
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I'm not sure what you wanted to have happen.
Would it have been better if he deceived you like my friend's husband did? He told her the marriage wasn't working for him any more. They went to counseling sessions, but he refused to do the work the counselor suggested. When my friend asked why, he told her he'd already made his decision. He said he went along with counseling only because he though it would help HER deal with it.
I ask because in planning to leave my husband, I was going to do pretty much the same as your husband did. He was going to drink, and I could deal with that. He was (I think) sleeping with other women. I didn't care. My boundary was 'being treated like a second class citizen.' I wasn't going to argue. I wasn't going to issue ultimatums. I wasn't going to tell him (again) his drinking made a real marriage impossible. There was a post I'd read about moving out without notifying your addict spouse first, and that was my plan.
You could have left. You just hadn't reached YOUR breaking point.
Would it have been better if he deceived you like my friend's husband did? He told her the marriage wasn't working for him any more. They went to counseling sessions, but he refused to do the work the counselor suggested. When my friend asked why, he told her he'd already made his decision. He said he went along with counseling only because he though it would help HER deal with it.
I ask because in planning to leave my husband, I was going to do pretty much the same as your husband did. He was going to drink, and I could deal with that. He was (I think) sleeping with other women. I didn't care. My boundary was 'being treated like a second class citizen.' I wasn't going to argue. I wasn't going to issue ultimatums. I wasn't going to tell him (again) his drinking made a real marriage impossible. There was a post I'd read about moving out without notifying your addict spouse first, and that was my plan.
You could have left. You just hadn't reached YOUR breaking point.
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Originally Posted by velma929
I'm not sure what you wanted to have happen.
Would it have been better if he deceived you like my friend's husband did? He told her the marriage wasn't working for him any more. They went to counseling sessions, but he refused to do the work the counselor suggested. When my friend asked why, he told her he'd already made his decision. He said he went along with counseling only because he though it would help HER deal with it.
Would it have been better if he deceived you like my friend's husband did? He told her the marriage wasn't working for him any more. They went to counseling sessions, but he refused to do the work the counselor suggested. When my friend asked why, he told her he'd already made his decision. He said he went along with counseling only because he though it would help HER deal with it.
I already wrote that I am upset at myself for even reaching out so I am not quite sure where you are going with this ... Any how.... No I don't prefer what happened to your friend to happen to me. I would have preferred to be treated with respect, dignity and have a meaningful goodbye that didn't include me bagging up his **** and having to throw it away. What I was hoping to gain is after time he would be able to see human to human that his actions were devestating ....I get he is an active alcoholic but there are times I am not 100% strong. It has only been 6 weeks. I am only human..
I am really unsure why your comment triggered me a bunch but it did. As my only options to a divorce are to be left over night (without any emotional or financial help) or to be placaded through therapy he really didn't want to be there for?
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Originally Posted by sage1969
You do know all you need to know. This is confirmation. So the next time you decide to unblock, reach out, whatever, remember today.
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Kaya, I recently was talking with Dandylion about codependency symptoms—one of which is often a difficulty claiming our own reality. I.e. we struggle with confidence that the way we see and interpret what’s happening around us as true and valid (usually because other people have previously policed our perceptions and emotions and told us we were wrong and we believed them). Often, that symptom makes us crave the validation of others to confirm that what we KNOW happened in life did in fact, really happen. Almost like we want permission to believe what we know to be true.
It sounds to me, like on some level, you want him to confirm or validate that he’s really an alcoholic doing terrible things to you and who has been doing terrible things for years. But we know addicts don’t live in the real world. They can’t. Because they would have to face the truth of their actions and their addiction, and truth is the enemy of using/drinking. And it sucks because it’s absolutely not personal (most of the time), it’s not meant to hurt us at all. We are just collateral damage in their need to protect themselves and their addiction.
So yes, going to him for any kind of recognition of reality is just going to be torture. For me, it took time, but I just had to remind myself whenever I started to feel the familiar self-flagellating panic that I KNOW the truth. And that’s enough. No matter if people who have never known an addict don’t understand. No matter if my addict can’t see it. I know what is real, and that’s enough. I’m enough.
It sounds to me, like on some level, you want him to confirm or validate that he’s really an alcoholic doing terrible things to you and who has been doing terrible things for years. But we know addicts don’t live in the real world. They can’t. Because they would have to face the truth of their actions and their addiction, and truth is the enemy of using/drinking. And it sucks because it’s absolutely not personal (most of the time), it’s not meant to hurt us at all. We are just collateral damage in their need to protect themselves and their addiction.
So yes, going to him for any kind of recognition of reality is just going to be torture. For me, it took time, but I just had to remind myself whenever I started to feel the familiar self-flagellating panic that I KNOW the truth. And that’s enough. No matter if people who have never known an addict don’t understand. No matter if my addict can’t see it. I know what is real, and that’s enough. I’m enough.
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Originally Posted by edoering
Kaya, I recently was talking with Dandylion about codependency symptoms—one of which is often a difficulty claiming our own reality. I.e. we struggle with confidence that the way we see and interpret what’s happening around us as true and valid (usually because other people have previously policed our perceptions and emotions and told us we were wrong and we believed them). Often, that symptom makes us crave the validation of others to confirm that what we KNOW happened in life did in fact, really happen. Almost like we want permission to believe what we know to be true.
It sounds to me, like on some level, you want him to confirm or validate that he’s really an alcoholic doing terrible things to you and who has been doing terrible things for years. But we know addicts don’t live in the real world. They can’t. Because they would have to face the truth of their actions and their addiction, and truth is the enemy of using/drinking. And it sucks because it’s absolutely not personal (most of the time), it’s not meant to hurt us at all. We are just collateral damage in their need to protect themselves and their addiction.
So yes, going to him for any kind of recognition of reality is just going to be torture. For me, it took time, but I just had to remind myself whenever I started to feel the familiar self-flagellating panic that I KNOW the truth. And that’s enough. No matter if people who have never known an addict don’t understand. No matter if my addict can’t see it. I know what is real, and that’s enough. I’m enough.
It sounds to me, like on some level, you want him to confirm or validate that he’s really an alcoholic doing terrible things to you and who has been doing terrible things for years. But we know addicts don’t live in the real world. They can’t. Because they would have to face the truth of their actions and their addiction, and truth is the enemy of using/drinking. And it sucks because it’s absolutely not personal (most of the time), it’s not meant to hurt us at all. We are just collateral damage in their need to protect themselves and their addiction.
So yes, going to him for any kind of recognition of reality is just going to be torture. For me, it took time, but I just had to remind myself whenever I started to feel the familiar self-flagellating panic that I KNOW the truth. And that’s enough. No matter if people who have never known an addict don’t understand. No matter if my addict can’t see it. I know what is real, and that’s enough. I’m enough.
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I'm sorry you had to go through that Kaya, I think any time you engage with him going forward it will be the same, it's where he is at.
You mentioned in previous posts that you all argued and argued and it was always about his drinking. As you know, from experience now and from reading around this forum, alcohol is the most important thing to him, more important that you and his children and friends and job, more important than having a roof over his head.
So no, he doesn't have empathy and he will probably never (while in active addiction) understand what the heck you are talking about. He doesn't think the way you do. While his behaviour might seem outrageous to the outside world and to you, is it really? If you read back on your old posts, he was mean and erratic from the beginning. Well, to be accurate, to start with he was pretty nice, then once he had you he confessed that he was a very heavy drinking alcoholic.
I know it's hard to understand why he would walk away. A man has a nice place to live, a loving wife, good job, future prospects, all sounds great right? Well not if you can't drink. If the offer had been, wife, job and drinking whenever he likes as much as he likes, he would probably be passed out on the sofa right now!
Here is the sad part and many struggle with this. If he were "just" thinking in his right mind and he would "just" see what he has he could sober up surely? If he loves this lifestyle, our marriage and home as much as I do, if he could SEE it, then surely he would sober up and we could have a good relationship?
Well no, that is who you are, that is where you are (were) at, he's not there. He's living in his van with no job and a drink in his hand. That's what he wants.
From a purely physiological point of view, drugs change the pleasure receptors in the brain (over time and he is now many years in to addiction). Visit the newcomers to alcoholism forum and see how many times you see the word "bored" or "boring". When your pleasure receptors don't act the way they do in normal brains, everything is BORING, unless it's accompanied by a drink. Imagine if everything you did seemed lacklustre and flat. You see your cat when you get home from work and you love her but she's a cat and yeah, where is the food. But what if you could have a bottle of wine and you LOVE your cat and isn't she so cute and she loves you too! Now apply that kind of feeling to anything, going out to dinner, having a conversation, visiting the pub, going to a party or family function.
You can have fun, or at least a reasonable time, with some wine, or you can just sit there flat and watch and be uncomfortable.
That's just one tiny example in a world of addiction, it's miserable. But suffice to say what you experienced and what he experienced and experiences are not the same thing, so it's no surprise he doesn't see it the way you do.
Could he be an alcoholic and less self centered and even a bit empathetic, sure - but he's past all that. Alcoholism is progressive, as you know, this is where he is at.
You mentioned in previous posts that you all argued and argued and it was always about his drinking. As you know, from experience now and from reading around this forum, alcohol is the most important thing to him, more important that you and his children and friends and job, more important than having a roof over his head.
So no, he doesn't have empathy and he will probably never (while in active addiction) understand what the heck you are talking about. He doesn't think the way you do. While his behaviour might seem outrageous to the outside world and to you, is it really? If you read back on your old posts, he was mean and erratic from the beginning. Well, to be accurate, to start with he was pretty nice, then once he had you he confessed that he was a very heavy drinking alcoholic.
I know it's hard to understand why he would walk away. A man has a nice place to live, a loving wife, good job, future prospects, all sounds great right? Well not if you can't drink. If the offer had been, wife, job and drinking whenever he likes as much as he likes, he would probably be passed out on the sofa right now!
Here is the sad part and many struggle with this. If he were "just" thinking in his right mind and he would "just" see what he has he could sober up surely? If he loves this lifestyle, our marriage and home as much as I do, if he could SEE it, then surely he would sober up and we could have a good relationship?
Well no, that is who you are, that is where you are (were) at, he's not there. He's living in his van with no job and a drink in his hand. That's what he wants.
From a purely physiological point of view, drugs change the pleasure receptors in the brain (over time and he is now many years in to addiction). Visit the newcomers to alcoholism forum and see how many times you see the word "bored" or "boring". When your pleasure receptors don't act the way they do in normal brains, everything is BORING, unless it's accompanied by a drink. Imagine if everything you did seemed lacklustre and flat. You see your cat when you get home from work and you love her but she's a cat and yeah, where is the food. But what if you could have a bottle of wine and you LOVE your cat and isn't she so cute and she loves you too! Now apply that kind of feeling to anything, going out to dinner, having a conversation, visiting the pub, going to a party or family function.
You can have fun, or at least a reasonable time, with some wine, or you can just sit there flat and watch and be uncomfortable.
That's just one tiny example in a world of addiction, it's miserable. But suffice to say what you experienced and what he experienced and experiences are not the same thing, so it's no surprise he doesn't see it the way you do.
Could he be an alcoholic and less self centered and even a bit empathetic, sure - but he's past all that. Alcoholism is progressive, as you know, this is where he is at.
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Kaya
I am so sorry for the hurt.
I struggled for a long time with this. I thought the person that had hurt me, should be the one to make it better. I thought that was what closure was.
If he had been capable of that we would not be in the place we were in.
Low contact/No contact initially sounded like it was for the other person, in reality for me it was a way to not take on more than I already had. It was a way for me to find the person who could give me closure. Myself.
I am so sorry for the hurt.
I struggled for a long time with this. I thought the person that had hurt me, should be the one to make it better. I thought that was what closure was.
If he had been capable of that we would not be in the place we were in.
Low contact/No contact initially sounded like it was for the other person, in reality for me it was a way to not take on more than I already had. It was a way for me to find the person who could give me closure. Myself.
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Join Date: Jul 2021
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Originally Posted by edoering
So yes, going to him for any kind of recognition of reality is just going to be torture. For me, it took time, but I just had to remind myself whenever I started to feel the familiar self-flagellating panic that I KNOW the truth. And that’s enough. No matter if people who have never known an addict don’t understand. No matter if my addict can’t see it. I know what is real, and that’s enough. I’m enough.
My XABF did try to msg me last week. I don't have him blocked, I'd just assumed he wasn't going to either remember or care enough to contact me again. It was a painful and ridiculous conversation, but the kicker was that he told me he was really happy with where our relationship was right now and he didn't want to change things.
And it became even more crystal clear: alcohol always comes first and as a codie I'd made things easy and comfortable. Nothing else matters.
So I'm sorry you've had this painful reminder, but there really is a reason everyone keeps telling us to go no contact.
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Thank you everyone. Tonight will be a night I read on here a lot. I appreciate everyone. Today was a day that I realized I reaching out to him was because I am human but also because I didn't put the work in this last few days....reading on here ect 
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Originally Posted by trailmix
I'm sorry you had to go through that Kaya, I think any time you engage with him going forward it will be the same, it's where he is at.
You mentioned in previous posts that you all argued and argued and it was always about his drinking. As you know, from experience now and from reading around this forum, alcohol is the most important thing to him, more important that you and his children and friends and job, more important than having a roof over his head.
So no, he doesn't have empathy and he will probably never (while in active addiction) understand what the heck you are talking about. He doesn't think the way you do. While his behaviour might seem outrageous to the outside world and to you, is it really? If you read back on your old posts, he was mean and erratic from the beginning. Well, to be accurate, to start with he was pretty nice, then once he had you he confessed that he was a very heavy drinking alcoholic.
I know it's hard to understand why he would walk away. A man has a nice place to live, a loving wife, good job, future prospects, all sounds great right? Well not if you can't drink. If the offer had been, wife, job and drinking whenever he likes as much as he likes, he would probably be passed out on the sofa right now!
Here is the sad part and many struggle with this. If he were "just" thinking in his right mind and he would "just" see what he has he could sober up surely? If he loves this lifestyle, our marriage and home as much as I do, if he could SEE it, then surely he would sober up and we could have a good relationship?
Well no, that is who you are, that is where you are (were) at, he's not there. He's living in his van with no job and a drink in his hand. That's what he wants.
From a purely physiological point of view, drugs change the pleasure receptors in the brain (over time and he is now many years in to addiction). Visit the newcomers to alcoholism forum and see how many times you see the word "bored" or "boring". When your pleasure receptors don't act the way they do in normal brains, everything is BORING, unless it's accompanied by a drink. Imagine if everything you did seemed lacklustre and flat. You see your cat when you get home from work and you love her but she's a cat and yeah, where is the food. But what if you could have a bottle of wine and you LOVE your cat and isn't she so cute and she loves you too! Now apply that kind of feeling to anything, going out to dinner, having a conversation, visiting the pub, going to a party or family function.
You can have fun, or at least a reasonable time, with some wine, or you can just sit there flat and watch and be uncomfortable.
That's just one tiny example in a world of addiction, it's miserable. But suffice to say what you experienced and what he experienced and experiences are not the same thing, so it's no surprise he doesn't see it the way you do.
Could he be an alcoholic and less self centered and even a bit empathetic, sure - but he's past all that. Alcoholism is progressive, as you know, this is where he is at.
You mentioned in previous posts that you all argued and argued and it was always about his drinking. As you know, from experience now and from reading around this forum, alcohol is the most important thing to him, more important that you and his children and friends and job, more important than having a roof over his head.
So no, he doesn't have empathy and he will probably never (while in active addiction) understand what the heck you are talking about. He doesn't think the way you do. While his behaviour might seem outrageous to the outside world and to you, is it really? If you read back on your old posts, he was mean and erratic from the beginning. Well, to be accurate, to start with he was pretty nice, then once he had you he confessed that he was a very heavy drinking alcoholic.
I know it's hard to understand why he would walk away. A man has a nice place to live, a loving wife, good job, future prospects, all sounds great right? Well not if you can't drink. If the offer had been, wife, job and drinking whenever he likes as much as he likes, he would probably be passed out on the sofa right now!
Here is the sad part and many struggle with this. If he were "just" thinking in his right mind and he would "just" see what he has he could sober up surely? If he loves this lifestyle, our marriage and home as much as I do, if he could SEE it, then surely he would sober up and we could have a good relationship?
Well no, that is who you are, that is where you are (were) at, he's not there. He's living in his van with no job and a drink in his hand. That's what he wants.
From a purely physiological point of view, drugs change the pleasure receptors in the brain (over time and he is now many years in to addiction). Visit the newcomers to alcoholism forum and see how many times you see the word "bored" or "boring". When your pleasure receptors don't act the way they do in normal brains, everything is BORING, unless it's accompanied by a drink. Imagine if everything you did seemed lacklustre and flat. You see your cat when you get home from work and you love her but she's a cat and yeah, where is the food. But what if you could have a bottle of wine and you LOVE your cat and isn't she so cute and she loves you too! Now apply that kind of feeling to anything, going out to dinner, having a conversation, visiting the pub, going to a party or family function.
You can have fun, or at least a reasonable time, with some wine, or you can just sit there flat and watch and be uncomfortable.
That's just one tiny example in a world of addiction, it's miserable. But suffice to say what you experienced and what he experienced and experiences are not the same thing, so it's no surprise he doesn't see it the way you do.
Could he be an alcoholic and less self centered and even a bit empathetic, sure - but he's past all that. Alcoholism is progressive, as you know, this is where he is at.
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Originally Posted by LifeRecovery
Kaya
I am so sorry for the hurt.
I struggled for a long time with this. I thought the person that had hurt me, should be the one to make it better. I thought that was what closure was.
If he had been capable of that we would not be in the place we were in.
Low contact/No contact initially sounded like it was for the other person, in reality for me it was a way to not take on more than I already had. It was a way for me to find the person who could give me closure. Myself.
I am so sorry for the hurt.
I struggled for a long time with this. I thought the person that had hurt me, should be the one to make it better. I thought that was what closure was.
If he had been capable of that we would not be in the place we were in.
Low contact/No contact initially sounded like it was for the other person, in reality for me it was a way to not take on more than I already had. It was a way for me to find the person who could give me closure. Myself.
"If he had been capable of that we would not be in the place we were in" Yes this
Thank you
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Originally Posted by sage1969
Kaya, I thought about what you wrote earlier, and edoering's reply quoted here . . .
My XABF did try to msg me last week. I don't have him blocked, I'd just assumed he wasn't going to either remember or care enough to contact me again. It was a painful and ridiculous conversation, but the kicker was that he told me he was really happy with where our relationship was right now and he didn't want to change things.
And it became even more crystal clear: alcohol always comes first and as a codie I'd made things easy and comfortable. Nothing else matters.
So I'm sorry you've had this painful reminder, but there really is a reason everyone keeps telling us to go no contact.
My XABF did try to msg me last week. I don't have him blocked, I'd just assumed he wasn't going to either remember or care enough to contact me again. It was a painful and ridiculous conversation, but the kicker was that he told me he was really happy with where our relationship was right now and he didn't want to change things.
And it became even more crystal clear: alcohol always comes first and as a codie I'd made things easy and comfortable. Nothing else matters.
So I'm sorry you've had this painful reminder, but there really is a reason everyone keeps telling us to go no contact.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,637
Originally Posted by LovelyKaya33333
Somewhere inside of me I still feel like maybe if I could explain from a logical standpoint or maybe if he could see what alcohol did to his family before me and his family now (with me)... I guess this is the part in me that still needs so much work. It isn't everyday like usual but it still haunts me on occassion. Feeling thrown away is the worst.
You are thinking rationally with facts, he is in the world of addiction. I think sometimes as well it's not stressed enough how powerful addiction is. For many addicts it is all consuming. When they are drinking they are checking to see when the liquor store or pub closes, to make sure they don't run out before they are done drinking for the night. When they aren't drinking they are planning the next drink. Just have to get through this (meeting, lunch, ride home) then I can have a drink (or can I grab a couple at lunch or in the car on the way home?). To be without access is just horrible. If a person is standing in the way of that drink, how do they look to the addict?
Now for most intents, he could, many times, possibly look perfectly functioning, like the days the kids were there and you went to the gym and were kind of normal! Well you know that's not the case, he was planning to exit, what you saw (he showed you) and what he was/is/thinking were different things.
This can cause cognitive dissonance in your mind. On the one hand you have your ex behaving kind of like a non-addict for a few days and then a day later he has his stuff in boxes and is rushing out the door. Who is he? The guy on the treadmill at the gym or the guy in the van? Surely the guy on the treadmill can be reasoned with?
Well truly, he is the guy in the van (or at the absolute least, this is the dominant "him"). When you think of the number of alcoholics in the world, they are not all sitting on a park bench. They are the guy at work, the woman in the cubicle next to you, your Sisters best friend. People know how to act "normally" when they have to, they aren't showing their cravings out loud (generally) and this can include spouses as well. I'm sure this is where a lot of the shame comes from too. IF he/she could see what I'm really like (watching this movie but wanting to be drinking) they would not want to be sitting here next to me.
Imagine then the relief of walking out the door, no responsibilities except where to get the next drink. That kind of mindset leaves no room for consideration of anyone else.
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Originally Posted by trailmix
Well that's the really hard part to wrap your mind around, because it is possibly true. If you explained it from a logical standpoint and he could see what is happening here and really process it, yes, maybe he would be willing to change and maybe he would come out the better for it.
You are thinking rationally with facts, he is in the world of addiction. I think sometimes as well it's not stressed enough how powerful addiction is. For many addicts it is all consuming. When they are drinking they are checking to see when the liquor store or pub closes, to make sure they don't run out before they are done drinking for the night. When they aren't drinking they are planning the next drink. Just have to get through this (meeting, lunch, ride home) then I can have a drink (or can I grab a couple at lunch or in the car on the way home?). To be without access is just horrible. If a person is standing in the way of that drink, how do they look to the addict?
Now for most intents, he could, many times, possibly look perfectly functioning, like the days the kids were there and you went to the gym and were kind of normal! Well you know that's not the case, he was planning to exit, what you saw (he showed you) and what he was/is/thinking were different things.
This can cause cognitive dissonance in your mind. On the one hand you have your ex behaving kind of like a non-addict for a few days and then a day later he has his stuff in boxes and is rushing out the door. Who is he? The guy on the treadmill at the gym or the guy in the van? Surely the guy on the treadmill can be reasoned with?
Well truly, he is the guy in the van (or at the absolute least, this is the dominant "him"). When you think of the number of alcoholics in the world, they are not all sitting on a park bench. They are the guy at work, the woman in the cubicle next to you, your Sisters best friend. People know how to act "normally" when they have to, they aren't showing their cravings out loud (generally) and this can include spouses as well. I'm sure this is where a lot of the shame comes from too. IF he/she could see what I'm really like (watching this movie but wanting to be drinking) they would not want to be sitting here next to me.
Imagine then the relief of walking out the door, no responsibilities except where to get the next drink. That kind of mindset leaves no room for consideration of anyone else.
You are thinking rationally with facts, he is in the world of addiction. I think sometimes as well it's not stressed enough how powerful addiction is. For many addicts it is all consuming. When they are drinking they are checking to see when the liquor store or pub closes, to make sure they don't run out before they are done drinking for the night. When they aren't drinking they are planning the next drink. Just have to get through this (meeting, lunch, ride home) then I can have a drink (or can I grab a couple at lunch or in the car on the way home?). To be without access is just horrible. If a person is standing in the way of that drink, how do they look to the addict?
Now for most intents, he could, many times, possibly look perfectly functioning, like the days the kids were there and you went to the gym and were kind of normal! Well you know that's not the case, he was planning to exit, what you saw (he showed you) and what he was/is/thinking were different things.
This can cause cognitive dissonance in your mind. On the one hand you have your ex behaving kind of like a non-addict for a few days and then a day later he has his stuff in boxes and is rushing out the door. Who is he? The guy on the treadmill at the gym or the guy in the van? Surely the guy on the treadmill can be reasoned with?
Well truly, he is the guy in the van (or at the absolute least, this is the dominant "him"). When you think of the number of alcoholics in the world, they are not all sitting on a park bench. They are the guy at work, the woman in the cubicle next to you, your Sisters best friend. People know how to act "normally" when they have to, they aren't showing their cravings out loud (generally) and this can include spouses as well. I'm sure this is where a lot of the shame comes from too. IF he/she could see what I'm really like (watching this movie but wanting to be drinking) they would not want to be sitting here next to me.
Imagine then the relief of walking out the door, no responsibilities except where to get the next drink. That kind of mindset leaves no room for consideration of anyone else.
sage
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 704
Originally Posted by LovelyKaya33333
.So one part of me knows this sweet soul and the other part of me knows this total gaslighting emotionally abuse drunk. It is so hard to come to terms with hating one part of him and missing another part of him. It ping pongs in my head. It messed with me a lot and as good as I’m doing I have days like today where I just feel lost.
I'm sad for all these wasted lives, all the wasted beauty and memories and what - might - have - beens.
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 648
Originally Posted by sage1969
Kaya, I struggled with this as well. My XABF is an amazing artist, creative, a beautiful soul . . . until I realised that he'd been drinking since he was 12, that I'd never seen him without a drink in his hand or open and within reach, and that he actually remembered few of our conversations. The thought that he didn't remember me or himself even, was horrifying to me. As was the first time I saw him with the shakes in the morning, and the first time he snapped at me. And I realised what I was looking at and that it was never going to change if I stayed.
I'm sad for all these wasted lives, all the wasted beauty and memories and what - might - have - beens.
I'm sad for all these wasted lives, all the wasted beauty and memories and what - might - have - beens.
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