NewHeart

I know I am trying to control everything by setting and doing everything perfectly in my 20s. I feel like I should have gotten my ExABF type of relationship out of my system in high school or college instead of "wasting" the last of my 20s when the dating pool was wider...yes I felt extremely content in that relationship. The sex was engaging, the physical touch was amazing, the feeling of connection and our habits...I just knew that it could never bear responsibility on it or it would be crushed...and I couldn't be 27 forever. Once I turned 29 reality hit....I feel like I hurt him. I truly did talk about the future with him but I also denied his alcoholism while joking about it. I do feel that after my Exfiance that all I wanted was to be with someone who desired me. I felt so ugly and abused in that relationship with my ex fiance. He compared me to other women and I ended up doing most of the legwork to apply to grad schools for him and I moved to a different state for him...and then he tried to sleep with my sister. Then I was desired by my exABF. I COULD NOT STOP thinking about ExABF due to his high desire to be with me. Even when I hadn't talked to him for months it was like eating and breathing I was obsessed with him. I felt like it was unavoidable. That scares me. It scares me how much I enjoyed the relationship with someone who was abusing themselves and was going nowhere. It scares me that I "threw away" my time with him. But in my 20s I didn't think about my fertility window. My relationship with my FOO was so bad I thought I didn't want kids. See my post above.

At the end of the day no I didn't let it drag on forever. And yes, I know I am human and that I couldn't have done it perfectly...but I still beat myself up over it. I feel that what I learned from my last relationship is that I am desirable and that attention and even extreme feelings of love (which I had never received before or felt) is not enough. Perhaps it is a warning side that we need each other in a co dependent manner too much.

I don't know if you guys believe in any of this but I did go to a woman who reads astrology. I scheduled an appt with her before the end of the breakup but ended up seeing her afterwards. She told me my exABF came to put me back on my path away from my exfiance who would have taken me away from my purpose. But that his struggle in this lifetime was around addiction and that it was so strong in his psychology that it was his go-to reaction. That the gift was that he saved me and then I learned from him how to save myself.

Perhaps it is all woo, but it is a different narrative.

sage1969

Perhaps, yes. It sounds as if you've been working hard and that is a good thing. As you let go of unhealthy friendships and thought patterns and feelings about yourself, there will be space to fill with healthy emotions and self love and new relationships. I have to remind myself every day to work my recovery. I have to thoughtfully consider every connection I make, every commitment I make. These are things you might consider that cannot be rushed.

This is a scarcity mindset, that if you think about, that you can overcome. You can be certain about the people you let into your life by being certain who you are, and loving yourself unconditionally. *Then* you are ready to add friendships and possibly romantic connections. This is not an instant process, that is why in recovery programs, one is highly encouraged to wait at least a year into their program.

For codies, the falling in love process is like a fairy tale and it happens all in one go. I think for "more normal" people, it means dating someone over a period of time to get to know them. It doesnt mean you'll date 1 person and find the love of your life. It might mean you date several people, and narrow down who they really are, and then assess if you could live with them and if you could trust them to parent your children. After hearing your FOO stories, I'm absolutely certain that you know what you can and cannot live with going forward, so you will have to be true to yourself and listen to your gut instincts.

As painful as it has been, as Trailmix pointed out, there have been some life lessons in your past relationships. So good for you -- you recognise you have to figure out *why* you want children. It's not like getting a goldfish. And you aren't done when they turn 18. These are living souls that you are only guiding until they are ready to guide themselves, so if being a mother is important to you, really think about why and also about the gifts you have to share with your child(ren). Some of the work you are doing now is so important, breaking intergenerational addiction / abuse / neglect, and it would be a blessing to break these "curses" and pass on a healthy life to your descendants.

When you are ready to have children, let's be honest, you don't necessarily need a partner. You might find you are ready, and choose a different way to have a child. Being a parent means many things to many people. As a widow and as a parent of 4, I really like the idea of a partner who could fully share parenting with me. I've never had that.

Realistically, only you know where you are in this journey, only you can set your own goals. (Just know that your biology is not going to magically shut off at 35 or 40, that you have some time to find yourself).

Also as far as astrology and your destiny, you always have 100% choice of where your journey takes you. If you hit some karmic snags, there may be a lesson for you to learn. Learn it, let it go, and move on. It is always your journey, no one else's.

edoering

If you think about it, what the astrologist told you and Trailmix said are very similar!

Basically, you can’t do better than you know how to do. You didn’t know how what you really wanted or how to get before dating your exABF. That experience got you closer to understanding yourself. If you met the “perfect person” before that understanding, would you have been able to see it? To move forward with it? Probably not.

Between you and me, it almost sounds like you’re beating yourself up because this part of the codie recovery journey is so painful that you’re subconsciously looking for reasons you deserve to feel this pain. But this pain you are feeling isn’t fair, or deserved, it just is. Sometimes, there is nothing we can do to prevent feeling some pain in life. Nothing you “could have done differently” or sooner than you were ready to. Sometimes, we just have to feel through hardship until the next miracle that life throws at us.

Because life is both. Suffering and miracles. The important thing isn’t if you “could have done more/different/better/worse”—it’s what you are going to do next. For you.

NewHeart

I read these replies multiple times since I last responded. I think I was going through the grief process because it was painful to grow and learn from my co dependency and the hope that if I do everything perfectly then I would avoid the pain...but you are right and why do I think I should and can avoid pain in life. It is not realistic.

The falling in love like a fairy tale process I am figuring out is unrealistic too. Part of it was being starved for love living in an addicted household and latching onto whomever gave me some resemblance of it instead of asking if they respect me or are a good fit. As I am recovering my own life I see how many unrealistic expectations or desires were ruling my life based on my low self esteem. I also realize it is just a part of growing up and being disappointed and realizing that a lot of social narratives of what will make us happy and how we should set up our lives is not realistic

• Healthy love is not like a fairytale.
• Healthy love is not based on how much two people will sacrifice for one another and shut off the rest of the world.
• Infatuation is not enough to overcome serious psychological, financial and physical issues such as addiction
• Other relationships and others approval do not equate to healthiness
• One has to have children with an appropriate mindset of guiding them instead of having them as status symbols or to love you or to cement a relationship and if I never get to the point where I cam give that I am not entitled to children just because I want them.

Being on these forums has helped me to understand that I did love my ex. He was a full separate human being loved by God. Part of my love recognized it. Another part was an unhealthy attachment during a period of my life where I left another poor relationship that I also idealized thinking love was enough and was in denial of his sex addiction. It was a period of my life where my sister tried to get me hooked on drugs and I was separated from my parents and extended family due to lies stemming from addiction. It is understandable that I formed a connection with a man offering physical and emotional comfort even if it was coming from a sick place. Most of our relationship involved drinking together which decreased my critical thinking to evaluate the health of the relationship outside of the emotional issues I was dealing with.

Now I have re established the relationship with my family, put distance between my sister and I with love, broke up with my alcoholic boyfriend and started the 12 step process. My mind is no longer affected by the drug induced flashbacks which I also used my exabf and drinking with him to quell.

I am seeing that I have gifts from God that I must protect. A mind. A body. And a soul. Whatever happens in a life cannot take away those gifts even if I am disappointed with what happens.

Sometimes I feel a dissonance between my old unhealthy patterns of thinking and now as I see just how unrealistic those patterns of thought were...but then I live life and see that unhealthy patterns of thinking are everywhere and are promoted everywhere. The sick man's prayer is relevant to most of my day and to myself.

I do miss my exabf from time to time but the room was already empty and I was being pushed out of it as I started to push back against the alcohol and the craziness of bringing children into the situation. The room was empty before I even came. There is a sadness to that. A sweet sadness of being human but it is not mine to take on. It is the sadness God experiences seeing his children live in sin. All I can do is turn back to God myself and pray for my ex and people in his situation as I crawl out of mine.

I think I need to dig into my past with my sister on these forums to gain perspective because I think I played out a lot of those habits with my ex.

sage1969

@NewHeart This is an amazing post. There are so many lessons for me to consider in what you have said. Thank you for sharing this!

NewHeart

That means a lot coming from you. Thank you

NewHeart

An update

Im still struggling. I talked with my mother about my fertility fears. My mom did tell me that if I did not find anyone suitable and still wanted a child, she would help me to raise one. She said so no matter what you will have a child whether it is with a man or with her. She keeps on telling me that it is most likely I will find someone.

I started taking Zoloft. My anxiety is so bad I cant sleep. Its 4 in the morning right now. I just cant help researching the statistics of my possibility of getting married. It seems like I did miss my opportunity in my late 20s by dating the wrong guy and from lockdowns which I still regret even though I know everyone is saying to not regret the past.

I just don't want to go through the uncertainty and shame for the next 5 years. I dont want to see myself aging as a single woman. I want someone to hold me at night. I just want to be normal. I dont want to have this anxiety every night until I meet someone.

I keep on using and deleting dating apps. I hate them. They are demoralizing and I feel myself spiraling after using one. I dont want to spend all my free time on them either. I just got done using one and I think this is why I am spiraling so much right now. It increases my tradeoff anxiety. I hate everyone I meet off of them instantly.

I just feel like I am the caricature of a woman who focused too long on her career and having fun and now I will die alone.

I am going to start going to a different church. I started going to a church near work, fell for a guy there who ended up rejecting me and now I can't stand to go. The church is small and revolves around his family. His mother even suggested that I go somewhere else.

I feel like I'm running out of time to have a family. Why didnt I settle down beforehand?

sage1969

There is a pattern I noticed with myself. I noticed that times when I'm dating someone, I seem to attract others who also want to date. When I started thinking about that, I realised it had less to do with actually dating, but more to do with my attitude and outlook on life. It seems like the harder I try, the more difficult it is to meet people, and if I enjoy life and take things moment by moment, the easier it is to meet people.

I'd agree with you on the dating apps, even though it seems everyone says they use them, I've not had much luck meeting people near me who are really who they say they are. I think meeting people on something like meetup can be helpful, to make friends with interests similar to yours. I live in a small town and after XABF I've had to change my social group completely, so yes, it can be uncomfortable finding new friends and new places to go.

I will be honest, I was feeling the same pressure when I was younger and had not worked through my codependency and alcohol issues, and I married XAH because I wanted children. Big mistake, years of trauma, abuse, and legal stuff. What I know on this side of it is that I was able to have healthy children in my 40s. I've also learnt that I needed to be healthier and emotionally mature and stable before I started raising little humans (I was totally unprepared to be a parent).

If your anxiety is not easing up it might be that the medication needs tweaking? Sometimes you have to try a few before one works. It might be also that you work on the underlying issues, either journaling or with a therapist? I'm still digging, and I've worked through codependency, FOO issues, attachment styles, personality types . . . it is one thing to recognise that you'd like a partner and a child in your life for the enrichment to all of your lives, but another if you will be depending on their presence to bring meaning and happiness to your life.

NewHeart

Thank you once again for your response. I am changing my meds, I am going to church, talking with my family who talks similarly to how you all here do, I am still working the 12 steps and I am going to therapy.

I just have this anxiety that my life will be meaningless without children. So many parents talk about the happiness and purpose from having children. I want to feel that purpose. Isn't loving others the ultimate purpose in life. It is so hard to hear that family is not the reason why I am alive. I am terrified of aging and being alone. How do you confront these anxieties? How do you have happiness and meaning when you are not in a family unit?

SparkleKitty

I don't have children. My life is not meaningless.

There is more than one way to love others and give back to the next generation. There is more than one way to find purpose and meaning in the world.

Keep doing what you are doing, newheart, and try to keep an open mind and heart about your future. The best thing any of us can do is love and accept ourselves exactly as we are right now. From that, so much bounty follows.

trailmix

So why not have a baby right now? You have no reason to wait do you? I'm just saying that is an option for you if you want to try that route, so that's not off any table right now. Fostering? Adoption? IVF?

You know when you have children it is nice, then they turn 18 and go off to do whatever it is they will do, you see them periodically, which is also great, but they are busy with their own work and relationships.

I have 2 siblings (and two BILs) and a child and 2 nephews and a niece. My Son is mad at me and everyone else lives elsewhere - different countries (oh they also move away lol). So the storybook Christmas with everyone nestled around the tree is a non-starter haha.

I'm just saying that your idea of a family and what you might get can be far different, so prepare for that if you do decide to have a child(ren).

You will probably meet someone, perhaps a more "normal" way would be to get out in the world, travel, go to meetups with groups with similar interests, singles groups that DO something (I will never understand dating apps), join a team, whatever you are interested in. meetup.com is a good resource, no pressure ever to attend.

You might meet someone or not, but you will certainly make friends and that enriches your life.

All that said, you can have a great life even if you don't have a "traditional" family surrounding you, fun and laughter and happiness.

PeacefulWater12

I am sorry to hear how you are feeling. Nice job on all the action you are taking to move on. Really good work.

I don't have children and my life is not meaningless at all.

I tell you what is hundred times worse than aging and being on your own is aging and being with a partner who is not the right person for you. I live alone now and love it. When my late husband was still here it was lonely and horrible.

Growing up in my toxic family unit was also horrible! So family unit and/or marriage does not automatically bring meaning and happiness!

There are many many ways of living now, all of which can bring meaning and happiness.

I hope your anxiety leaves you soon. Take care.

PS living alone is GLORIOUS!!!

NewHeart

I am reading everyone's very thoughtful and beautiful responses.

I don't think I want to adopt or have a child as a single mother right now. I dont have my own place and I really do want to have a partner to raise the child with. Also, I do think I want to confront this co dependency thing a bit more instead of fixing it with a kid. I want to choose that from a healthy place of joy and readiness. Right now I'm mentally spiraling.

I'm going to share something I find embarrassing but I need help with it. I am constantly researching and looking up internet articles and opinions. The statistics all point to less marriage after age 30 and that parents have more purpose than people without children. I need help unraveling the prominence of "research" particularly internet research as the source of TRUTH. I know that when I looked to the internet as a source of truth for 2020 and all that entailed I kept on being pushed to believe about the Illuminati and such things. While I know that is silly I know my emotional state at the time became way more paranoid. I think it has to do with the control aspect of co dependency. I want to KNOW so I go to the experts and make the 100 percent right decision and there is a right decision. I feel like this child question and research about how being a parent is the ultimate meaning of life is putting me in a similar paranoid and controlling mentality as I was in when I was trying to do internet research on what was socially going on in 2020. I know that sounds goofy but that is the best way I can describe it. I also just want to see that the internet does not have the TRUTH but I am seriously struggling to not pick my phone up at 3 in the morning and read once again how meaningless life is without a husband and kids especially as a woman and how I will be ostracized from the community once I pass my child bearing years. Does anyone else understand this behavior or relate? It's trying to get all the information and obsessively reviewing the info and trying to find absolute truth. When I discussed this with my mother she said...do you know hoe many sick people are on the internet and why are you listening to them?

SparkleKitty

It sounds like this obsessive research is just another expression of codependency. "If I do x, y, and z, then I can be happy."

There is no formula. Those articles are designed to sell you on ideas that make you feel bad about yourself. People who feel bad about themselves buy things to try to fix it.

The truth is, nothing external -- not a weight-loss product, a relationship, a child, or the right shampoo -- can build your self-esteem. Only YOU can give yourself worth.

NewHeart

Thank you. I know that it is a symptom of my addiction. This helps give me clarity.

There is no formula and that is scary when your addiction is control

trailmix

Yes, that's right, there is no formula and there are no perfect families and having children doesn't make you "complete". Nothing external ever will.

Generally people like to control out of fear. Once you find out what it is you fear, and tackle that, the rest will fall away. That's easy for me to say but a little harder to do! But that's where I would start. Fear like that encompasses everything.

NewHeart

I have a fear of missing out. I have a fear that not being married or having children means I am rejected and out of the mainstream and society. That I made bad decisions and messed up my life. I am afraid it means something is wrong with me. I am afraid of being isolated and lonely.

SparkleKitty

Those things are only true if you buy into them. I know how hard it can be to see happiness and contentment as a choice you get to make. I had to really focus on the moment at hand instead of the unknowable future.

sage1969

Fear of missing out can be powerful, and it seems like it's completely driven by what we see in social media, on television, in movies . . .

What if you set all of it aside for a moment, and think on times you've felt 100% happy, shiny, content. It could be at any point(s) in your life, and think about how you felt and what was going on around you.

For instance, I find quite a lot of peace when I'm watching the sky, and then I started digging deeper to find I was happiest outside, gardening, hiking, or simply watching the clouds. This led me to spend more time thinking about my personality (introverted), and what positively feeds my soul. Then I found ways to spend more time doing those things.

Your list can be quite long, or one or two times, and it can grow as you find moments in which you are happy and at peace.

When you are using all your conscious time to compare your life to others', it gets exhausting and extremely unfulfilling. I find that I really needed to delete most of my social media and be much more selective of what I watched. For me, I'm very much not what I see in any form of media and if I kept attempting to identify or compare with any of it, I'd drive myself mad. As a codie, I grew up fitting myself around other people and their interests, and never figured out what interested me. It's been a hard process to find myself in this way.

NewHeart

Thanks guys. I will try your suggestions particularly thinking about what it is that I like.

I do think it is codie in that I think that I should find being in a family the most fulfilling thing and if I don't then there is something deficient in me. As in mothers are more perfect people who have more loving hearts than non mothers. Mothers understand love in a way non mothers dont. Dont I want to be loving? People who are attractive and social are chosen to be married. If Im not chosen something went wrong. If I am not striving at all times to be a mother or married I am missing out on opportunities and it will be 100 percent my fault so I need to focus on this 100 percent otherwise I will miss out.

I'm just getting my thought patterns out because trying to unravel it myself and not share it with others isnt working.

Also, I want to share on my recent heartbreak. I was invited to go to a church by a co worker in her 60s. She has a son around my age and I think she and her husband were hoping we would fall in love. Initially I was reluctant to as I was weeks out of my last relationship. Her son started to flirt with me and I acted shy but as time went on and we got more friendly I did start to have feelings for him. We started flirting more. I loved his family who started to treat me like a daughter. People joked about us getting together and asking when. I loved the lifestyle of all of us being in the little church together, him and I are co workers and work together, and the feeling of belonging was very strong. My parents even came to church to meet him. They both said he was shy though and my mom was a bit wary saying...its been months he should be pursuing you a bit more. I just said he was shy and he is known for being shy. At work he was much "shyer" and he never directly came up to me at church but in the parking lot of church he was very flirty hugging me and telling me how good I looked. The same at work when we were alone together in the break room or in the elevator. I thought he was just stressed at work since he is a nurse and has an 8 patient caseload most days.

Well I feel stupid now because I found out he has a girlfriend. His family didnt know either until his cousin who he lives with figured it out. It broke my heart and the sense of belonging I had. He was still flirting with me up until the minute I found out. Now I feel heartbroken and like there is something wrong with me for having this pattern again. Its increasing my sense of hopelessness.

I do feel like a fool too. And there is a part of me that hopes he realizes his feelings for me and a much more realistic side that I wouldnt want him if he did. He showed his character. Perhaps I was falling in love with his family and the sense of belonging more than him anyway.

I feel like this all ties in with my fear of missing out and feeling like a reject.