Batgirl273

I've heard the saying "how can you tell when an alcoholic is lying to you?" - "When their lips are moving".

I'm just wondering. Why do they lie even when NOT drinking, and why do they manipulate? For example, my ex used to lie to me even when he was sober (he's a binge drinker so 'sober' 5 days a week). The dumbest things too. But I also heard the truth, sometimes he would attempt to be truthful. He had a bad habit of lying/gaslighting, then telling the truth afterwards.

The manipulation... why? If you want to go drink and ruin your life, go for it. But why manipulate people with suicidal threats, with telling them you love them, with future faking and people pleasing behaviors? Are these traits in their character and exist before the alcoholic did?

I'm struggling to understand the jekyl and hyde thing as well. So loving to so angry all within hours. So moody when sober.

The complete silences. Being left on read. Phone calls ignored. Shutting down in person and going quiet, only to fire off loving or cruel texts when drunk.

I am so broken over this. I miss him. And I loathe him. I hate that I still love him and think we can get 'us' back even though he shows contempt for me now that his drinking has progressed.

dandylion

Batgirl.....I hope that you are still engaged with your other, current thread---as it is still being addressed by members in great detail---about the subject of your "hatred" of your husband.

You have a lot of questions about alcoholic behaviors---about the reasons of why alcoholics do what they do. These questions come up frequently in the discussions, here on the forum.

I am giving you some links to our excellent and large library of articles on alcoholism and the effects on the love ones. We have several hundreds of great articles!
1 one library collection is contained within the stickies section---right above the regular threads--in the "Classic Readings" section.
2. another library is on the very last forum on the soberrecovery website. The one at the very very bottom of the page.
It is called "The Best of Sober Recovery". The best collection that you will find altogether, anywhere!!

I hope that you will read these articles, because so many of your questions are answered in great detail.

Classic Reading - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information (Classic Reading)

The Best of SoberRecovery - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

ironwill

Hi batgirl,

The alcoholic wants someone to support their drinking. If this means lying and manipulation so be it. They will say what they need to say to keep you on the hook. For some odd reason Alcoholics are good at this manipulation and lying. Making you believe something and doubting things that you know are not correct.

The jekyl and hyde act is the alcohol changing the chemistry in the brain. The more he drinks the worse this will get. The Moody part comes in because the brain is craving that next drink and when will it get it. Who stands in my way of getting that next drink.

This is someone that you loved and though you had a future with. You will be heartbroken from this and it will take time to heal. Some days will be better then others. It just takes time and taking it one day at a time. Coming here and educating yourself is the best thing you could of done for yourself. There are so many knowledgeable people here that can get you through this. Just keep coming back and keep being strong.

Cookie314

I don't know if there's much "why" to it. This is from my perspective as the spouse of an addict, but I think some of it is they lie to themselves about everything as well. There's the obvious lies to try to deflect guilt and blame (such as saying they haven't been drinking when they're clearly drunk), the lies to themselves about how they're feeling and how much of a problem they have, the lies to friends and coworkers, etc. No one can keep track of them all, and things get overwhelming very fast.

Of course alcoholics are individuals too. Some of them have other mental health issues in addition to addiction, or possibly are just huge jerks -or worse-, maybe they're narcissistic, maybe they're guilty and feel trapped, etc. There's a million reasons for why they lie and treat us the way they do, and even when you know the individual, sometimes it's impossible to pinpoint the exact reasons why. Often they don't even know why themselves.

The suicidal threats are particularly of note to me. You need to take those seriously every time. If someone's threatening suicide, you take their word for it and call the police. If you think it's a bluff or manipulation tactic, do it anyways. Either way this will get them the help they need while protecting you. If you fear calling the police will lead to repercussions after, then you either pull an officer aside and tell them that, or you leave first, before doing anything. Your safety is paramount in that situation.

Ultimately, I don't know if any of us will truly understand why our addicts treat us the way they do. It really sucks, and I completely understand your hurt and frustration. Love is so tricky. At the end of the day make sure you're loving yourself first. If he treats you so hurtfully and disrespectfully, then being apart is likely the best thing for you, however painful. Focus on taking care of yourself. There's a lot of good people and good resources on this forum to help you through this.

trailmix

There is no way to know unless the person is sober and in recovery. I think one important thing to remember is that he is not "two" people, he is one person, good and bad, sober and drunk. Thinking of him as the good guy or the bad/drunk guy is misleading to you, he is both. You can't have the one without the other.

Maybe, in his ideal world, he would like a family/home etc - does he admit to himself that's not on the table because of his drinking? Or does he carry on with that wishful thinking, until life at the bar seems far more comfortable and besides doesn't seem to be anyone that wants to go along with his wishful thinking.

If he wasn't manipulative and lying, to you, to others, to himself, what would that look like?

- I am an incurable (to his mind) alcoholic/addict
- I might call you tonight, unless I am well in to the alcohol, then I probably won't
- We can go to the movies on Saturday, except if it's a drinking day, can't drink enough at the movies to maintain my buzz
- Won't be able to go to your Sister's for dinner on Monday because they have no drinks at her house and I need to drink if I'm going to be around strangers
- Don't expect to hear from me for 3-4 days because if I'm not on a binge I will probably be sleeping/hung over
- I know I said I would come over tonight but I got invited to a football game with some guys and we are going to drink through the whole game then go to the casino

Soooo - how would that work? Anyone going to sign up for that? Perhaps throw a mortgage and children in to the mix as well?

doggonecarl

There is a saying in AA. "Sober up a horse thief and all you have is a sober horse thief." In other words, even if people become sober it does not necessarily mean that they will become a better person.

Maybe your ex is a liar. Drunk or sober.

Eauchiche

As usual, I am grateful for the collective experience and wisdom on these pages.
In another thread, someone pointed out that the "why" doesn't really matter. It boils down to the behaviors we are observing and decisions about whether or not we can live with those behaviors. Someone also pointed out on that thread that talk is meaningless in recovery circles.

I amazed that the same principles apply to all kinds of situations.

SparkleKitty

When I accepted that the behavior was what it was, even if I never understood "why", I was free.

edoering

Humans are really good at lying to ourselves if it preserves some kind of emotional conclusion we already wish to be true (literally our brains pump happy/reward chemicals when we justify our feelings, whether or not it is “true”). Especially if facing the truth means facing hard facts about ourselves. For many addicts, somewhere deep down they don’t feel worthy of anything, and they don’t want to ever have to face that, so a mix of denial and distraction is common.

Sometimes they lie to you on purpose, sometimes they are so far away from reality they think they are telling the truth.