sage1969

Good morning, and thank you for being here and listening

My parent and grandparents is / were alcoholics, my sister is an addict, and my addiction is not chemical but codependency. I'm working very hard at not enabling and living a thoughtful, clean life. My partner is an alcoholic.

We've been been seeing each other 1 1/2 years; my partner is gentle, creative, artistic. Because we both have children, we have been conservative about involving the children yet. It became quite apparent early on that my partner is an alcoholic. I do love him and I have told him so. There are no throw - away people in this world. I don't make / pay for plans / dates, I don't double - text, if he forgets when his time off from child custody falls I don't remind him to set dates to see me (sometimes we go up to 8 weeks between dates), I don't pay for alcohol, I don't drink with my partner (or at all and I have told him why), I don't make excuses, my partner is responsible for his own home / finances.

This is a heart - breaking way to see my partner manage his life. Yes, it full - on triggers me when he forgets we've had a date (reminds me of memories as a small child waiting with my overnight bag for the parent that never showed up) or when he forgets the things we've talked about ( we can easily have 6 hour conversations), or when we talk about something challenging and he comes back from a " bathroom break" fully intoxicated and unable to remember the discussion.

He told me last night he wanted to set a date for next week, he missed me (it's been 4 weeks). I'd told him that I'd been giving him some space since he'd been attempting to get some things in order and work done. He seemed honestly upset when he told me he thought we were past this stage. He told me he loved me (which he'd never said before) and that he wanted to spend the rest of his life with me. The problem: he was extremely intoxicated and sounded like he was in his blackout stage. I did tell him that he knows how I feel about him and he said he knew.

I have no idea how to move forward. I won't enable. I can envision living with and making a commitment to this person if he were sober. I also know as a parent, I cannot possibly expose my children to living in a household with an active alcoholic.

I'm not certain how to bring up last night's conversation and what was said, if he even remembers it. I'm not certain how to ask for him to not drink while we're talking. And I'm not certain how to talk about going forward if he is still active and not in recovery.

(Yes, I have read most of the support materials available for AlAnon groups; for various reasons I don't want to be in a local group right now).

Thank you for listening,

Surrendered19

Hi sage. Welcome to SR. Right off the bat, I ask myself what is in the relationship for you? The guy sounds like a total disaster and unless he gets sober under his own steam and because he wants to, I really cannot see much of a future with him that would make you happy. But if you love him and simply must stay with him, please keep him at the arm's length he is at now. If you don't live with him and you only see him once every several weeks, as he continues to go down with drinking, he cannot really take you or your kids with him.

You say that you won't enable. But enabling him is what you are doing. You sticking with him over the phone and discussing the future with him is showing him that he can be a blackout drunk and still have you be a meaningful part of his life and future.

I also just want to say that you deserve a partner who remembers everything, is not an addict and that you can see more than every 2 months without it feeling unsafe for you and your kids. You definitely deserve that and I dare say you will not find it with your current partner. You wouldn't be throwing him away by deciding the relationship just isn't going to work like this. Far from it, you would be reclaiming your own future and perhaps helping him to reclaim his.

doggonecarl

Sorry for what brings you here.

Not to dissuade you from posting to the newcomers forum, you are certain welcome to. Didn't know if you knew we had a friends and family of alcoholics forum. Plenty of people who have been right where you are now.

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ly-alcoholics/

OKRunner

Hi, and welcome. I am very sorry for what brings you here.

Everyone's situation is very different, and I can only speak for my own situation, but I was in a somewhat similar situation, and perhaps my experience may help in some way. My handsome, smart, and athletic ex-boyfriend has alcohol use disorder and he would set a date with me and then forget that we had a date, maybe because he made the date while drinking or nearing black out? Or, he would admit that he remembered our date but not show up so he could drink by himself. (I don't drink.) Same thing with our conversations. This went on for some time. I loved him dearly.

Eventually, I realized I was not getting very much that was positive out of the relationship. I never got to go on those dates. I never got to build on those wonderful conversations. Our conversations never turned into reality. In addition, I was sad and hurt when he canceled or never showed up for our dates. When I did the math, I realize the relationship was seriously hurting me without adding much (if anything?) positive to my life.

Everyone's situation is very different, and I can only speak for my own situation. But the math for me, eventually, didn't add up. We are no longer together. I am no longer hurting because he no longer blows me off. In addition, when I make plans with my current friends, they actually show up. Sometimes they show up before me! I also am able to make plans on my own -- and actually carry them out. It's wonderful.

I think I'm worth more than being blown off so someone can drink or because someone is hung over. I think my conversations are worth remembering.

Maybe make a list of all of the things he brings to your relationship. All of the things he does that make you happy. Not things he could do, if sober, but things he does right now, as someone who is active in his alcohol use. Then make another list of all of the negatives. The missed/canceled dates. The forgotten conversations. The inability to be around your kids. That may help you see things more clearly. Assess your relationship as it is now -- because it is what it is.

ScottFromWI

Welcome sage - it sounds like you've set a lot of boundaries already, and that is a good thing. I'd also echo the comments to keep posting here but also check out our friends and family section too.

I can't speak to co-dependency, but it sounds to me that your situation is indeed a lot like chemical addiction. You want to have him in your life, but only the good parts - not the bad ones caused by his addiction. Just like I wanted to somehow keep the "good" parts of alcohol in my life without the consequences - and by the end there were no good parts anyway.

Overall it doesn't sound like there is much good going on with your relationship either - and as you likely know with your exposure to addicts, it will likely only get worse unless he somehow decides to address his addiction and quit drinking for good. As selfish as it sounds, you aren't as important to him as drinking - and always will be a secondary priority until he quits. There's no way to make sense of it or make it hurt any less, but it's the raw truth and I am guessing you already know that unfortunately.

least

Welcome to the family. Do have a look at the friends and family of alcoholics forum. The people there have had experiences like what you are going thru and could have valuable advice for you.

I can only speak for myself, but I would not be able to accept the flaws in such a relationship. Drinking is coming before everything else, including you. I hope you can decide where you want to go from here. You deserve a better life than what your relationship sounds like.

sage1969

Thank you, I didn't realise I was on the incorrect thread, but have no idea how to move my post . . .

I will also try to search for how to even talk to my partner about all this, because I don't know.

And yes, by still talking on the phone and occasionally seeing him, I agree, I am still enabling. Thank you for pointing this out. For me, it is more easy to see that I can never drink again; it's so much harder for me to see from the inside which of my behaviors and words are enabling to others.

Dee74

Hi Sage - welcome to SR

You’re not in the wrong place - you’re a newcomer - but if you want me to move this thread to our family and friends forum I can do that. Alternatively you can repost there yourself.

There’s been some good advice here.

You can’t ‘make’ someone stop drinking - you will have read about the three Cs in your AlAnon reading?
Some of us fo stop - but many do not.

If this is not the way you see yourself living in the future, then you have some hard decisions to make.

D

sage1969

Yes, please, Dee, could you move this thread to the correct forum? Thank you!

Steely

Hi sage,

Memories of your father are similar to my own. Standing on the front porch waiting for him to take me someowhere, but never arriving. Powerless and disappointed. Seems you are reenacting the same scenario with this man. Powerless and disappointed. . It won't get better until he recognises he's being a selfish prat and has a problem with alcohol. Seems he has very selective "sensitivity".

I'm interested to know if you have ever raised the question of alcohol in his life. The impact it is having on you, and to some degree your kids. Pretty sure your disappointment, uncertainty, would play out into their lives as you continue to 'wait', continue to accept the unacceptable. Bit of a dismal life. Kids are very perceptive.

For you to be posting here tells me you are unhappy as things stand and think it's time for you to have that very serious discussion with him about what YOU want and what you are prepared to accept. Doesn't seem to be much future in it if things continue this way.

Sorry if i appear hard hearted towards a man you see as "gentle, creative, and artistic." But I can't see him in that light. I think he's just being selfish and has no reason to change because you are prepared to accept whatever crumbs he's prepared to give. That's not love, that's exploitation. And I do care because I know the feeling.

Hope you access "Friends and Family of Alcoholics", here.

sage1969

Thank you for all of your responses. I msgd that I needed to speak to him and quite clearly why, and he surprisingly responded back right away to fix a time for us to speak tonight.

Surrendered: thank you for your honesty. Yes, I need to reclaim my future. I will honor myself by setting boundaries and keeping them.

Doggone and Dee: yes, I have read through the forums for family; Dee, could you move my post there? I think I have a better handle on where to post now.

OKrunner: it sounds as if you've experienced a very similar situation. That you for the honesty in this and your other posts. It leaves me much to think about.

Scott: thank you for the raw truth. It hurts but best to rip that bandaid off now.

Least and Steely: Yes, I can see the flaws in this relationship. There should be a middle ground, compromise, and yes, I now know what I want and what must change to go forward.

Surrendered19

You should definitely post over in the Family & Friends forum sage. But you can post here too and get some truth. We were all your boyfriend.

Dee74

Hi Sage

I saw your request to move the thread when I logged in again.
Its done

D

trailmix

You may have already spoken to him by now.

If you think about it, you have been in a relationship with him for a year and a half and yet you struggle to speak to him about the dates/lack of memory due to blackout/him basically proposing to you while drunk/his drinking in general.

I would chalk this up to being raised in an environment where you were surrounded by alcoholism. Everyone has to walk on eggshells right? Drinking is not spoken about, all the odd things that happen are not mentioned and if they are it's a huge fight.

That's the nutshell version. I'm sure you've wondered why you chose an alcoholic for a partner, but hey, that is what you know. This is not unusual for a child of an alcoholic.

Just be prepared, if you challenge him on his drinking he may well turn on you. Alcohol is the most important thing to him, before you, before his children, his family and probably before himself. You might just become the enemy.

Does that mean you shouldn't mention it? No, you should feel free to speak to him about whatever is on your mind, that's how healthy relationships are built, understanding each other, communication. Sadly with an alcoholic this may never be possible.

Perhaps it's time to look after yourself better? To focus on your life and what you want and what would make you feel safe and happy and content.

You didn't Cause it, can't Control it and can't Cure it (the 3 c's).

dandylion

sage.....how to talk to him? Tell him the same things that you have told us---in a nutshell, of course. lol...remember that when all else fails--try the Truth.
I imagine that your self described co-dependency in getting in the way of your opening up the conversation. You would like to control the outcome of the conversation, I would imagine. I assume that you would like for him to understand exactly your point of view about the alcoholism, and to willingly put the bottle aside----in favor of the relationship and vow allegiance to the things that would strengthen the bond between the two of you. Professing his love and loyalty and all of those things that are supportive to your and your children's welfare.
sage....no matter what you say and how you put it---I don't think that there is any chance that you are going to get the result that you really want.

Thus, I suggest that you just go with the unadulterated truth about your feelings and fears---and, adding to that---your own boundaries about what you are unwilling to admit into your and your children's lives. In other words, to cut to the chase.

suggestion----"Clancy. it has come to pass that I must tell you completely, what I am thinking and feeling. I feel that I MUST be honest with myself and you, as well"
I suggest that might be a good opening sentence.

Let the Truth be your guidance and let go of the outcome. He is going to react as he is going to react. Let go of the urge to control how he reacts. You cannot control him. You can only have governance over your own actions.
In the end, I believe that you will find that the Truth is the simplest way.

You will need to be willing to let him go.

PeacefulWater12

Welcome, Sage. Sorry for the situation that brings you here.

I would encourage you to think of yourself and your children and let him go.

Cookie314

The way I would bring up things like this to my AH is to ask him outright if he remembers the night before. If he didn't, I'd describe what happened. It helped me to do it more in a factual, reporting of events sort of thing to start because it would help me not to turn it into mud slinging.

For asking about not drinking and moving forward while in recovery, I would word it as more of your boundaries. It sounds like you have a lot of healthy ones already. When I laid them down for my AH, I even wrote them down in a list. Two of the boundaries you can discuss are only communicating with you when he's sober, and only continuing your relationship if he's in recovery.

My AH liked to throw things back in my face, and has called some of my boundaries ultimatums. I don't think of them as such, but ultimately the distinction is meaningless. Using an ultimatum against someone in active recovery to control their actions is manipulative. If they are actively drinking and risking themselves and the people around you however, an ultimatum is you saying: "this is my final line, the consequences of crossing it are x."

Is leaving the relationship an option for you now, in your heart? Do you still feel that sense that things will reach that recovery stage you're looking for? If you do, then I hope he can get into treatment and begin recovery. If you don't feel ready to leave yet, then making a solid list of what is acceptable or not, and what would make you leave is important. Especially with your children in the mix, you need to be honest with yourself, and follow through when lines are crossed that are unacceptable.

I liked to think of the boundaries as my action in response to his action. In your case, if your boundary is no communicating with you while drunk, your response to him drunk calling you is to end the conversation until he's sober. If your boundary is not furthering the relationship unless he's in recovery, then say exactly that. It really sucks to end a relationship, exorcist when you still care for the person. But they need to respect you, and your boundaries.

velma929

You can take this as an observation from someone who's circled the sun for a lot of years.

A question to ask one's self might be: Am I dating to have something to occasionally look forward to, or am I looking for a partner? Either one is fine. As a widow, I've done both. Once I wanted a partner, though, there were deal-breakers. No, there are no throw-away people, but there are people I won't partner with.

When I was dating for fun, a FWB suited me just fine. We saw each other once in a while, looked forward to it when we couldn't. Once I decided I wanted to look for a partner I had a choice to make. FWB was a done deal. He'd be there (wasn't available for a relationship, but he'd do what he could). Or I could ditch the sure thing, and date for real, to see if I could find a partner. I'd have to go out there [again] risk rejection [again] be disappointed [again] so that maybe, at 54, I'd find someone to spend a life with.

I texted FWB and told him it was over.

sage1969

I sent a msg yesterday, and he responded right away, which during the daytime is unusual, that yes, we could talk. I'd been quite clear why I wanted to talk, I'd sent a pretty extensive, comprehensive msg. The plan was to talk in the evening once I got home after kids' sports. He was a no call no show.

I'm not surprised. I'm not anything, actually. A bit numb. My heart should hurt like it has so many times in the last year, but it doesn't.

I was honest in my msg. I told him my feelings, my fears. I told him in the end it was his choice and I accepted whatever choice he makes.

At some point he might call. Dunno. If he does, we have to talk about all this, and if he won't, that is his choice. I know mine.

Trailmix: thanks for your support. You've said it all, that's where I am now. Letting go. I've done it so many times, thinking I had it figured out. This feels different. The numbness, the nothing there, the lack of pain.

Cookie: your boundaries are good. I had never thought about the drunk calling specifically, but you're right. Though in the past when he'd crossed the line and I knew he was blackout drunk, I'd get off the call. Now I know to make it clear if he's not sober, to end it then.

Dandylion, Peaceful: ditto. Letting go.

Velma: I get it. I'm a widow also. I went through several FWB, just figured out I wanted more connection, didn't want to be someone's cure for boredom. And in a way, being in a relationship with someone who isn't sober is still just a FWB, no matter how meaningful when they are sober. Because when they aren't sober, once again, I'm someone's cure for boredom, not a real person with real feelings and dreams. Who knows, maybe there's someone out there for me, perhaps not. Being with someone isn't my life. My life might include being with someone. I get it.

dandylion

sage, I hope that you will continue to post and participate in this forum. The"numb" feeling after such a turn in the relationship is not unusual---as it is described by many others who come to the forum.
It is likely that after the numb feeling passes---that, there may be some other varied emotions to appear---as you will, undoubtedly grieve the change/loss of what you had wanted from this relationship. Kind of like a kalediscope of various shifting emotions. This of course, can be expected to subside in increments, over time.

You future has yet to unfold and you have much to look forward to---as you are still young with lots of life yet to live. (yes, you are still young whether you believe that or not....lol).
This is a great opportunity for learning. Some of our greatest learning occurs during times of crisis and adversity. Change can do that for us.
We have sooo much educational material in our library of articles on alcoholism and the effects on the loved ones. The best ones that you will find anywhere in one place.

Please avail yourself of these articles
1. in the stickies---just above the main threads. Look for the section that is titled "Classic Readings" within the stickies.
2. The very, very last Forum on the soberrecovery website---the one at the very bottom,, called "The Best of Soberrecovery".

And, of course, do read the most recommended book on this forum---"Co-dependent No More". It is an easy read that I think will resonate with you a lot!

Don't forget to share your experiences and journey with others who may be walking in your same or similar path.