Suddenly feeling confused.

Old 06-24-2021, 07:46 PM
  # 1 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 122
Suddenly feeling confused.

Had an appointment today with my therapist. Have had several good days and my doubts have subsided somewhat. Suddenly, they e reared their ugly head.

what if I am what ah says? Maybe I couldn’t just leave the past behind like he says. I don’t know, seems whatever he said I did, he was doing in the moment. He said I was blaming and justifying. Not accountable. And worse. I don’t think I was doing that. I don’t see how wanting to share my fears with him as blaming him. I don’t see how that’s justifying or not being accountable either. I couldn’t agree with what he would put on me. Seems he couldn’t agree with things I was afraid of. They made him mad.

nothing makes much sense.
Macyc is offline  
Old 06-24-2021, 08:02 PM
  # 2 (permalink)  
Community Greeter
 
dandylion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Macy.....Oh My, your self was beaten down for so long and in such blatant and calculating ways. No wonder you have self doubt, and it doesn't get wiped out in just one sweep. Bits and pieces are bound to pop up, now and then.
Give yourself Time.

Plant more grass and it will choke out all of the weeds.
dandylion is offline  
Old 06-24-2021, 08:06 PM
  # 3 (permalink)  
Community Greeter
 
dandylion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Mavy....I have a suggestion for right now. Go to the youtube videos of those women who have left very abusive relationships and watch them for a while. There is something about real faces with real voices that has power. The power of human connection, in real time---one to one. It is that human thing that that promotes healing.
Avoid isolation. Isolation is not your friend..
dandylion is offline  
Old 06-24-2021, 08:40 PM
  # 4 (permalink)  
Member
 
trailmix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,565
Originally Posted by Macyc View Post
nothing makes much sense.
It can't, the way you two think are miles apart.

His words, truly, mean nothing.
trailmix is offline  
Old 06-24-2021, 09:01 PM
  # 5 (permalink)  
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Northwest
Posts: 4,215
Macy…go back and re-read his texts. Re-read your posts about the names he called you, the rages, the psychological abuse of your children.

These are your words:

lie after lie after lie after lie. The abuse. The alcohol. The drugs. The lies. And more lies. And more lies. And more lies. Did I mention the lies?

he’s most dangerous when he’s nice. Then my guard is down.

even the nice is a lie.

who is he? What is he?

He’s so confident with his lies and rewritten realities. He speaks it as if his words are real. His version of everything as if it’s how it is. Every name he calls me, as if it’s fact. Every claim he makes as if it makes sense.

and here I struggle with reality. Because it’s unreal.

Flip it on her.

those four words hold such a punch to me. I can’t even explain why
Do you see what’s happening here? He’s not even there…and he’s now got you “flipping it on her.”

Sweetie. Do NOT let him flip it on you. Nothing that he did was because of you. He always, ALWAYS had another choice…not to abuse you, not to torment your children, not to go to strip clubs, not to drug and drink, not to throw furniture, not to punch holes in walls, not to hit you, not to scream at you, not to control your every move, on and on and on and on. He ALWAYS had another choice. It’s not like you were holding a gun to his head demanding that he abuse you or else.

You are not now and never were responsible for his behavior. He chose what he chose.

Don’t flip it on you.

Big hugs, Macy.


Ariesagain is offline  
Old 06-24-2021, 09:08 PM
  # 6 (permalink)  
Member
 
Steely's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: NSW - Australia
Posts: 14,272
He's a creep.
Steely is offline  
Old 06-24-2021, 09:15 PM
  # 7 (permalink)  
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Northwest
Posts: 4,215
What Steely said!
Ariesagain is offline  
Old 06-24-2021, 09:15 PM
  # 8 (permalink)  
Member
 
PeacefulWater12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: uk
Posts: 2,428
You are bound to wobble after all you have been and are going through. You are doing well, keep going.
Sending positive thoughts to you, Macy.
PeacefulWater12 is offline  
Old 06-24-2021, 09:35 PM
  # 9 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 122
The last texts he and I exchanged, not even his nasty friend texts Before I left went like

him: I sent daughter a text, she didn’t reply. A big eff you to me. What kid blocks their parent?

me: I can understand why it feels like that. You have a lot to prove to her. Give it time. And keep a good attitude.

him: I’d never let her be so disrespectful to you as you let her be to me. You encourage it. You should make her unblock me or take her phone if she won’t.

me: she isn’t disrespectful to you. How could she be? You two don’t talk. Why do I sense you’re going down a wrong path here? “Here’s” where it is. “Here’s” the goal. How do you get there? That’s the focus.

him: so sick of your bs. We are here because of what you’ve filled her head with her entire life.

me: no, you’re “here” because of what she’s experienced from you her entire life.

him: her experience is what you’ve filled her head with.

me: her experience is her own. Just as my experience is my own. Either way, why are you going backwards.

him: sure

me: when you use that word, it isn’t good. I’ve become hyper vigilant. To words you use, facial expressions and so on. That’s normal. She has also, only she’s shut down toward you. Having this attitude isn’t going to help.

him: it’s just a word. So sick of your accusations.

me: I didn’t make an accusation. I shared something. Typically, when you use the word “sure” you do so with an attitude. Like shaking your head no while saying yes. And it leads to something bad. I get a rush of anxiety when you use the word. That’s my experience.

him: so sick of your blame. Stupid bs games. You did this to her. Sick of all you’ve done to me. Look in the mirror! You justify everything you do. Blame. Point the finger. Look in the mirror.

me: ok, no idea why this is going south. I’m on your side. You don’t talk like someone who even likes me the second I try to speak about anything real.

him: real? You call your bs real? I never did anything to her. She thinks it because of you. And you won’t fix anything you’ve done.

me: how do I fix what you’re talking about.

him: it’s simple. Tell her I’m her dad and that I love her and that you’re sorry you’ve let her think otherwise.

me: she knows you’re her dad. She doesn’t think you love her and that isn’t because I told her so. I don’t think the answer is I tell her you do. I think the answer is you apologize and show her different. And you tell her you do.

him: apologize for your stupid bs? See how dumb that is. I’ll never believe it any other way. Save your bs and your games. I don’t even want to look at you.

me: ok.

him: Don’t go cry to my sister and tell her how mean I am

me: ok.

him: what’s for dinner. Or are you ignoring me now?


I didn’t reply. And got ignored for several days.

yeah I don’t get it.
Macyc is offline  
Old 06-24-2021, 09:37 PM
  # 10 (permalink)  
Member
 
PeacefulWater12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: uk
Posts: 2,428
He is just plain crazy, no wonder you don't "get it".
PeacefulWater12 is offline  
Old 06-24-2021, 10:02 PM
  # 11 (permalink)  
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Northwest
Posts: 4,215
Go back and re-read that, but this time forget this is supposedly a grown man. Those words are those of a bratty, spoiled tween who badly needs to be grounded, his allowance taken away, and forced to get a part-time job. You are trying to have a reasonable discussion, like an adult. He is acting out. And it ends just like it does with most super bratty tweens, “what’s for dinner?”

As they used to say on the coast of Maine, “he ain’t right.”

And he ain’t.
Ariesagain is offline  
Old 06-24-2021, 10:31 PM
  # 12 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 122
He’s not. And I don’t know why he thinks he’s so awesome. And not the failure he is.

I have raised our children on my own. Literally. I don’t know how I did it but I did. I remember when they all were younger, those days they seemed they were life forever. Having then age 10, 7, 5, 3, newborn..... or any age of 12 and under until my youngest and last was born.... even taking them to theme parks by myself! Open to close. Taking my oldest boys to concerts. Girls to Broadway shows. Youngest always with me like a third leg. On and on this goes. If I took some somewhere others weren’t interested in, finding a place they’d be because never relied on AH, at all. Not once. Music lessons, voice lessons, every interest after school, driving them all. My entire life dedicated to them. Fully. Then, our youngest requiring 24 hour care. More than having a newborn, and doing that along with what I just mentioned. Not complaining. Never said “no I can’t because of your brother....” I just did it with him. Now, most of our kids grown and off except the last two, our near 17 year old and our son who will be 13 a week from today. You know when he was born I was told he wouldn’t see his 3rd birthday. Well, he did! Doctors tell me they believe he’s here because of the wonderful care I have given him. I don’t know if that’s true. But it’s what they say.

All that, I did that. I don’t know how or how I’m even sane at this point. How I haven’t given in to the bed.

I’m that woman. And he treats that woman the way he has!

id rather poke my eye with a fork then treat someone the way he does.

if I never have to hear his hateful, nasty tone, the one he uses when he’s about to flip it on me and stick with that narrative, it’ll be too soon. It’s what keeps me from giving in to the pull I have to call him when I get this idiotic confusion and think I want to talk to him, as if then I’ll feel better. He will love me, I can be wrong and it can all stop. Only I can’t do it because it could go the other way. I could get the other thing if I’m not sorry enough or if I’m too weak of insecure or who the heck even knows. And if I hear that voice, I may end up on an episode of snapped.
Macyc is offline  
Old 06-25-2021, 05:30 AM
  # 13 (permalink)  
Member
 
velma929's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: maine
Posts: 1,540
I suspect, when we once loved someone, it's hard to let go of the dream we once had of being together forever. Even though you've parented alone for years - maybe it's hard to lose the dream that he once was "the one" - even when it's obviously the best thing to do. Weren't you very young when you got together? You had five children - you wanted it to work out and did your damnedest.

The death of a dream is still a death.

velma929 is offline  
Old 06-25-2021, 05:41 AM
  # 14 (permalink)  
Member
 
Eauchiche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,790
Dear Macy
Again, I am SO proud of you.
What you describe in this thread is two things:
1. Your ex sometimes hoovers you into "arguments", although they are not so in a classical sense. It is just a plain old drunken brawl. The solution: YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO TO EVERY FIGHT YOU'RE INVITED TO.

2. You are trying to convince him of the error of his ways. IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.

That being said, let me share a little personal experience.

Even now, after many years of sobriety and not living with my ex, I have an occasional thought about the "good old days."
It had it's own level of comfort, because I was using alcohol to numb the stresses of life. It was one way I had of avoiding "living life on life's terms."
Today I live alone and am starting up two businesses. In addition, I have been appointed the Organist at our parish. This is all WONDERFUL, but has it's own set of stresses. I can no longer fall back on "spirits" or the relationship I was in to help cope.

I'm just giving you a little heads-up here. As you recover ( and you will), you will be tempted to look back occasionally and romanticize the past.
Eauchiche is offline  
Old 06-25-2021, 07:59 AM
  # 15 (permalink)  
Member
 
mylifeismine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains
Posts: 815
I agree with other posters! Just curious - does he have a relationship with the
older kids?
mylifeismine is offline  
Old 06-25-2021, 08:46 AM
  # 16 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 122
No, he doesn’t. He was a “parent” for show. He talks the talk for others, that was it. He’d show up at their events, most of the time. It ended there. Plus, they witnessed his behavior. They’ve no bond to him, how could they, he never even changed a diaper or read them a story. Nothing. They said if he died, they’d speak at his funeral with few words, “many of you think ah was a good man, he wasn’t.” And that’s it. He tried to buy them, it doesn’t work, they don’t care about his money. They were never impressed with a fancy car or expensive things. They’d never ask him for anything, they say too many strings are attached even if it isn’t spoken. To be blunt, they don’t like him, at all. They’ve said even if he “changed” they wouldn’t believe it, that it would be a facade. They don’t call him or text him, they wouldn’t answer if he called them. They really have just moved on, without him.
Macyc is offline  
Old 06-25-2021, 09:47 AM
  # 17 (permalink)  
Member
 
trailmix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,565
Originally Posted by Macyc View Post
It’s what keeps me from giving in to the pull I have to call him when I get this idiotic confusion and think I want to talk to him, as if then I’ll feel better. He will love me, I can be wrong and it can all stop. Only I can’t do it because it could go the other way. I could get the other thing if I’m not sorry enough or if I’m too weak of insecure or who the heck even knows. And if I hear that voice, I may end up on an episode of snapped.
There is a term, cognitive dissonance, where you are holding two conflicting views of something. The mind is not comfortable with that! So it goes round and round, trying to settle on something "real", like a decision of how you will think of something.

You know he is poison but on the flip side all this, that has now become your world, can stop and go back to "normal" if you make it so. Well, the truth is, you probably could, except your logical mind knows this is not "normal", which seems to be what is stopping you (good!).

It's hard to put down though (and it's also very annoying for you I'm sure). Once you have decided how you will look at this, this conflict will stop. Sounds easy, sometimes it's not.

The difference in thought between what you hoped would be, what you thought maybe this could be, what might of been if he had just changed, and what he truly is. That's not easy to accept. The good thing is, you know the truth.

So how to stop that rumination and disbelief? By accepting him just the way he is. By challenging your thoughts each time they appear.

One thing that might help is writing a list, I know you have his horrendous phone conversations to give you that perspective, but that's pretty traumatic. A simple list might help, something in hard copy even that you keep with you that you can refer to any time you feel yourself dwelling on how it could have been:

- Never showed any real interest in me
- Never showed any real interest in the kids
- Could never make plans as he might or might not show up
- Hit me 3 times
- Would yell at me in front of the kids
- Never let me have any money of my own
- Lied to everyone about me
- Insulted my intelligence
- Never agreed with anything I said
- Would always be happier spending time at the bar instead of at home

etc etc

You get the idea. It's almost kind of a training for your brain when it starts to ponder the whole thing to say, no hold on, wait a second, he isn't "that" he will never be "that" this is what he is. The acceptance of that will come eventually, this is just a tool to help.

Once you accept him for who he is, you will probably feel more like your kids do about him. It takes time, there are huge resentments (justifiable), anger, sadness etc. You will get through all this.

I think the difference between having a list like this and actually viewing the phone conversations is that it is less traumatic and you don't have to be shocked and appalled each time you reference it, these are your words and your thoughts, not his (and if you need to look at it 20 times a day to start - that's ok).


trailmix is offline  
Old 06-25-2021, 10:46 AM
  # 18 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 259
Macy, when you wrote the start of this thread, how were you feeling? As in physically in this case. I ask because I have come to realize that a lot of my biggest moments of self doubt, guilt, questioning, and depreciation come in tangent with times my other needs aren't being met. Maybe I hadn't had my latest meal, or gotten enough sleep the night before, or gone on a good walk for a while, etc. Dealing with an addicted spouse is completely mentally and emotionally draining. You spend so much energy caring for them, you run out of energy for yourself. When your physical needs aren't being met, it lowers your defenses against those negative thoughts and emotions even further.

I definitely agree with Trailmix about making a list, lists are generally pretty great. (Who doesn't love making a list of chores, then adding chores you've already done so you get the sweet sweet satisfaction of crossing them off?) In addition to that though, make a mental or physical checklist of your needs too. When you catch yourself having those bad thoughts and doubts, stop yourself, and go through your checklist. Have you eaten? Slept? Exercised? Etc. Take a minute to reflect on the other things affecting you in that moment, and also in your moments of strength and clarity. You mentioned you'd just had a therapy session right before that post. Those can be really draining, which can leave the door open for other thoughts to sink in.

I'm not saying this to mean don't do therapy or anything. More to suggest getting into the habit of stopping yourself when you have those thoughts and doubts, and consider the other factors at play in your life. You know you're not those horrible things he claims you to be. When you find yourself doubting that, stop and take stock on yourself and your needs. Abusers take advantage of any weakness to sow seeds of doubt in you. Focus on your self care, and you'll likely see those confident thoughts also coincide with moments of health. You are worth taking care of, and keeping yourself safe and healthy.
Cookie314 is offline  
Old 06-25-2021, 11:00 AM
  # 19 (permalink)  
Member
 
trailmix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,565
Yes! What cookie said.

There is an acronym for that - HALT, when you are feeling particularly bad stop and ask yourself if you are Hungry, Angry, Lonely or Tired. If any of these apply, attend to it right away. Even if you are having trouble with sleeping, for instance, just go lay down for an hour or two and read and try to relax, sleep if you can.

trailmix is offline  
Old 06-25-2021, 11:14 AM
  # 20 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 259
Hah, Trailmix, I didn't know there was an acronym for that already, but I love it. I think my therapist just referred to it as mindfulness. She used to have me wear a rubber band on my wrist for a short while, and when I caught myself having those hurtful thoughts, I'd "snap" myself out of it.

It was a silly as it sounds, but the idea is to get into the habit of stopping when you have those thoughts, and instead thinking about why you're having them. Instead of calling myself an idiot, I stop and think about why I'm doing that. Am I just embarrassed? Did things just not turn out how I wanted? Do I know something now that I didn't know then, and that's what makes me "look stupid"? Etc.

There's always stuff acting on you all the time. When you have physical needs pressuring you on top of what's going on emotionally, it makes having clear thoughts much harder. You've gotta be fair to yourself. Taking a break from what's troubling you to take care of yourself is often enough to give you better perspective, or at the very least settle the rumblings from your tummy.
Cookie314 is offline  

Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:14 PM.