Why is this?
 

Spoke with my therapist today, she said If ah did cocaine again, he’d drink. If he drank, he’d do cocaine. In other words, she said if he does one, he’d do them all.

fascinating. I just don’t understand why? Anyone else get it?

I've read that here before, from people in recovery, something along the lines of, if they use cocaine they will go ahead and drink.

I think, probably, her theory is, if you will do one drug, why wouldn't you do another? Unless you have some fear of it. like i will do cocaine and drink but I'll never touch meth! That kind of thing. But if he's not sober, he's not. So why wouldn't he drink?

I think people who are trying to get sober may rationalize using an alternative as "that's not what I quit doing so it's OK" but once they've broken the taboo and don't experience what they do from their ultimate drug of choice, it becomes very easy to use what you really wanted in the first place.

So then if one wants to maintain sobriety, they have rj stay away from all mind altering drugs or they’ll end up using their drug or drugs of choice in no time?

Yeah, that is pretty much how I understand it. My qualifier was a meth addict. He wound up getting sober and still is as far as I know. He doesn't drink even a beer.

Well that is the theory for sure. Could there be cocaine addicts that quit and then drink but never go back to cocaine? I suppose that happens. I don't know that there is a definitive answer really.

It’s probable…some people use alcohol as a legal alternative when other drugs aren’t available. Alcohol is also a depressant, so it takes the edge off other drugs, like cocaine, which is a big stimulant. Mix and match, so to speak.

Alcohol also lowers inhibitions and leads to impulsive actions, so if someone says, “hey, wanna buy some cocaine”say, at a strip club, it’s more likely he’ll say yes if he’s been drinking.

I’m curious as to why this matters to her or to you? I don’t mean to diminish his drug or alcohol use, not at all, but it’s his abuse of you and your children that I would think is the most important reality?

Are you okay, Macy?

Writing with my recovering alcoholic hat on rather than my Friends and Family of alcoholics hat on.

I am 11 years sober and if I were to take a drink it opens up a gateway in me. I will then, as sure as sure can be, be picking up cigarettes and sugary foods, start my eating disorder off into binge/starve mode, start crazy codie behaviours.

Taking one of our drugs seems to activate something in us that then leads us to our other stuff. It changes my brain and affects my thinking processes. My values change. They drop. Enormously.

I was speaking to my sponsor recently about this subject. My sponsor and myself are both very slim, very healthy, very fit, very active people.and we know that if we were to open that void in us by using any one of our "demons", we would escalate downwards incredibly fast. We would very quickly lose all we have both worked so hard to achieve.

So bottom line is we cannot use any of our problem substances or behaviours as it sets of this spiral.

Hope me sharing this helps others.

Macy.....here is a link for an article that I think might shed some light on your question.


Addiction and the Brain | Psychology Today

However---I, like AriesAgain, my question to you is----beyond simple intellectual curiosity----why does that even matter, at this point?
It is the consequences of what he does that have turned your life into a misery. In your case, this includes addiction Plus abuse---does it not?

LOL....why do birds poo on your car? This can lead to a very interesting dissertation on the development of their alimentary system, in developmental anatomy.
However, if one is parking their car under a tree (especially, during the season that mulberries are ripe)....what are you going to do about their poo habits and the effect on your life?

Macy.....I hope that you are not getting sucked back into the reasoning, that, "If I could just get him to stop using substances, everything would be o.k.". Abuse, and the narcissistic tendencies that go along with it, is a subject that goes far deeper than just his addictions".

No, I’ve not talked to him at all. Was a thing she said, we spent one minute on when I told her I hope he’s drinking again, that it would make my world better as far as legal things are concerned. Knowing my history with him, she just made the comment that he would be drinking again in no time, and if he drinks, he will be doing it all again.

she and I did discuss why is it hard for me to not be in contact with him. Because it is hard, I feel anxiety over it and a pull to reach out. What stops me? My dignity? Maybe I have some. My logic? It exists. But emotionally, it’s difficult. I feel afraid. If I were to reach out, and know his mood or what he’s thinking, I feel safer. I don’t know why that is. It isn’t true. But that’s how it FEELS. So for now, she gave me exercises to do when I feel that pull. Like questions I’m to ask myself to bring myself to the present. To ground myself. And she told me to look at the phone of his I have, read the texts of him talking to his “friends” where they brag about their conquests and the like. To look at videos he has that are equally disgusting, for a reality check because that is the real him, drinking or not. Which is true. After all, he was sending these things after the fact, sobered up.

we did discuss that staying is a choice. That lots of people do stay and get treated that way, cheated on and so forth. She asked if I could do that? The answer is no. I tried, it’s too painful. I couldn’t ever not speak up eventually. I’m not dead enough inside and I clearly am unable to not say eventually “I don’t like it when.....” or any variation which then sets him off.

I don’t think her point was to try and get me to go back. It was to get me to think about myself, not him. I wish I could do that, go back and not care. I don’t know how, I never have. It makes me blame myself even as if I can’t even “not care” about what he says or does well enough. I even fail at that.

I still haven’t cried.

on another note, I do like his sister. I could imagine we would be friends if I met her outside of marriage. With that said, she does know how he is and so on. But, I know the day will come that she will buy in to whatever he says. It always does. This disappoints me.

it’s like this, when it comes to abuse, a person has to pick a side in my opinion. And pick it carefully because there is no neutral. There is no “not getting in the middle.” Because that’s pretty much his side. That tells him what he does and has done is ok, even if that isn’t said. It says it to him. Not to mention, he would get information or manipulate it without someone knowing or meaning to.

so I can’t have contact with her either. She has been supportive. But I know that’ll end like it does one day when she struggles to not believe some lie he will tell.

am I worried about that? Not really, it just hurts. It hurts that I care about some people who will never be a real ally to the person who needs it most. Not to mention, anything less than that, means someone is enabling him to be how he is to me, whether they know it or not. And I can’t have that in my life.

I know the drill. I’ve seen the movie. I’ve tried to leave before. Several times.

Macy, it only makes sense to want to gauge his temperature. When you live in fear of someone’s moods, you constantly monitor the emotional weather forecast, so to speak. It’s like living in tornado country. You watch the sky, you sniff the air, you check the forecasts, because it’s better to be prepared than to not see it coming. I grew up that way and it’s a terribly hard habit to break. I understand.

It sounds like you have a good therapist and you have a history with her, which is really helpful. I don’t want to speak too much for others, but I think we worry when we don’t hear anything that you might be getting pulled back in and we’re concerned for you, both your mental health and your safety. Wow, that sounded grandma-esque…sorry. But still…

You’re unusual in that, by the time you started posting here, you were on the brink of breaking free. I think the validation just gave you that tiny bit of affirmation and you would have gotten there soon anyway. Most of the time new posters are still very much ambivalent and still stuck in the “how do I fix this” mindset and when there aren’t magic solutions many tend to vacillate and then disappear. Particularly with the abuse situations, that’s worrisome and I always wonder about how they are.

So you’re a bit of an overachiever! And good for you. Please let us know how you get on when you can, yes?

:grouphug:

I’d post every day with my anxiety induced thoughts. With the wheel that turns from the emotional thinking. All those “maybes” and the biggest one.... maybe it’s me. Maybe I over react. Maybe I exaggerate. Maybe there’s something terribly wrong and it is me because if it isn’t, wouldn’t this be easier? He’s not belly aching over it, no doubt. But I am. He’s not heartbroken or feeling any love. I am. And I wish he was who he tells me. So I want to dip my toe in and see if I get that man. Because I love that man. Or do I?

but I don’t because I feel so annoying. I would annoy him after all, by just coming to him with something.

this is really hard. If I’m further ahead, my body and mind don’t know it. So that feels fake as much as I’d love to be able to own that as real. I don’t see it as such.

Oh and yes, I know what you mean. When someone disappears, it typically means they’ve gone back. I know that drill, I’ve done it several times over.

Macy, you’re an empath and probably an HSP (highly sensitive person). We tend to get in relationships with people who are our polar opposites, who have little to no empathy and are only sensitive when it affects them, not when it affects those around them. Why? Because many of those people seem to have a sixth sense as to finding those who can be emotionally manipulated and bullied. Empathy has its downside, because we can always see someone else’s point. And that can be used against our better instincts.

You’ve spent over twenty years in a relationship where your interests have been mostly negated and your best qualities (kindness, empathy, sensitivity) have been used against you. It’s no wonder you’re feeling major anxiety in breaking away…this is what you know. But it’s remarkable how that inner voice you have is still in there and it’s loud and clear that enough is enough. It just gets drowned out by the anxiety sometimes and that’s perfectly understandable.

It’s not you. It’s him. It’s who he is and he’s proven it over and over and over again. What kind of marriage is it that only works only if you never say anything honest to him because it might upset him? That’s not a marriage…it’s a hostage situation.

Breathe. Listen to that rational voice inside you. It’s one smart cookie. And post whenever and whatever you feel it might help you, yes? Even if it’s only to get it out there.

Thanks ariesagain, that makes so much sense. The things my brain and body feel, and my mind tells me at times, make no sense at all. It’s a war inside myself. And yes, my inner voice is involved.

it’s amazing to me how people believe his lies and see it as “poor him” and bad me. When I know they know exactly how he is on some level. He’d turn on anyone who didn’t buy in or spoke out. This is how he is, isn’t personal. It’s still outrageous to me. It’s hurtful. It’s scary. I could never leave someone stranded and go on with business as usual with the abuser. I just could not do that. I’m trying to accept this is just the way the world works..... even if it shouldn’t be that way. It’s a big one to swallow.

if people would stand with the victim, and I mean the people who know the abuser, this would be so much easier.

Yes, you're right. However, from their point of view, they just want the "good guy" back too. Like your sister in law for instance. Someone posted yesterday that the only person who is also the alcoholic's friend, that seemed to "get it", jumped ship yesterday and called her and wanted to get in to a conference all with the ex boyfriend because didn't she realize how much better he is!! He can't do this without her!

So no, the friend (who is also an addict) doesn't get it. https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ml#post7650520

People want to see the best in people, heck you want to see the best in this man that has abused you for years, it's human nature.

As for the anxiety wanting to gauge his mood, I totally get that. I don't know if I mentioned this before but my Father was an alcoholic and up until a few years ago (and sometimes still) when someone comes to the door or I hear a car door close as someone arrives, it's still gives me a sinking feeling.

Oh and on that same note, when my Father died, my Aunt (his Sister) deemed to tell me off on the phone about how I had not spoken to him for a year (a few years earlier) and do I realize how that made him feel blah blah blah. So I said to her, have you never had a falling out with any of your children? She said well yes. And I said and is that any of my business?

Anyway, you get the gist. Leaving someone, even an abuser, maybe even especially an abuser, is not easy. You are doing fine. It's natural to want to go back to some kind of "norm", you are at an "in between" place. Perhaps the best thing you can do now is look for permanent accommodation for you and your kiddies (and the dog!), to give yourself a sense of home?

From Classic Reading in the stickies at the top of the forum:

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...een-place.html

Macy.....yeah, you are in that awful "inbetween place". I think it is even more so, if you happen to be isolated. I hope that you will fread trailmix's suggestion.

There is another suggestion, that I don't know if I already suggested to you. There are gazillions of videos on youtube about leaving a narcissistic abuser.
I am going to give you the following link to a particular one---done by a woman who has many, many videos that she made about how it felt, to her, over a long period of time, after she ended her 24 year marriage to her abusive husband---all the way to her healing process.
I think that her videos may give you comfort and validation when the stuff is whirling around in your head.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...4&&FORM=VDRVSR

Thanks everyone. I read the tread and listened to so many videos from the link! Then.... took another couple steps! Blindly. And I took them because they make me anxious as opposed to not doing it because it makes me anxious. 1. I changed my phone number! Ah was blocked but it wasn’t helping. I was still getting texts sometimes by third parties. Those don’t help!

2. I rented a lake house in brevard North Carolina. Near where I went to camp every summer growing up. This is a few states away from where I live. My older kids can come visit (they aren’t speaking to ah and wouldn’t tell him where I am even if they did but they won’t, they’ve blocked him. They’ve accepted he won’t change long ago.). It’s summer. My 16 year old has no obligations. Why not right? Calming places.

3. Right before we go, I have a court date. An emergency hearing for temporary relief. Because of my son and situation, i get to attend by zoom and my attorney will be present in person. I won’t physically see ah! And he doesn’t get to physically see me. Because he won’t produce his latest tax return, I submitted to my attorney, the last one I have. Ah is always a solid two years behind. He, as a business owner, filed extension after extension until he can’t anymore.

what he isn’t counting on or thinking of I’m sure. Is I also have a years worth of Amex bills of HIS. Showing he spends over 20,000 a month on entertainment AND pays it and this isn’t business related.

Further, I have many texts where he’s bragging, saying things like “babe, I just had my first million dollar day.....” and so on. Too much to count. My attorney loved all of them!

this hearing will ONLY be about temporary relief. I just didn’t realize how much evidence I have that will disprove what he’s about to claim! Not to mention the things on his old phone I took where he discusses money with his business partner and hiding money.

I almost have second hand embarrassment for him already.

wwwoooooohooooo.

go away anxiety. You liar! You’re interfering with my ability to rebuild my confidence and celebrate the fact that Macy isn’t as dumb as ah has made her feel.

I’m thinking he may see real rage for the first time instead of his fake abusive kind..... maybe then he will know the difference.

I remember plain as day he told me not so long ago, in the most hateful tone “you’re so stupid, you don’t even know how stupid you are, that’s how stupid you are.” Back at you ah, back at you.