Why is this?
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Macy.....Wow. You have just taken some terrific strategic moves! And, bravely, I might add. I feel happy for you that you are moving in the forward direction.
How nice it will be for you at the lake house. It will be good for the soul. You will be able to exhale.
The reason that he called you that "s" word is because he knows---Knows---way down deep, that you are the exact opposite of that! Probably his deepest fear....that you are smarter than him.
To me, the really significant thing, here, is that you have taken these steps while still scared and anxious.
How nice it will be for you at the lake house. It will be good for the soul. You will be able to exhale.
The reason that he called you that "s" word is because he knows---Knows---way down deep, that you are the exact opposite of that! Probably his deepest fear....that you are smarter than him.
To me, the really significant thing, here, is that you have taken these steps while still scared and anxious.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 122
For real dandylion! And I catch myself thinking “but what if this means it’s really over for good. He will never forgive me.” Ugh. That’s why I have to do it. My logical mind knows, that’s backwards. I may not ever figure him. If I do, may it be in a pathetic way. Like “I forgive him for being his truest self”. And that truest self, has no place in my life, ever. In fact, may I never give him a chance to ever dismiss, discard, minimize. Lie, deny and so on to my face or in my ear again! May I never put myself in that position again.
after he would blame me for everything, he used to say he wanted me to get help for being a liar! Any truth spoken meant I was a liar. He’d want me to admit I did this on purpose and get help for that also. I never would give in to that. Not once. I couldn’t. But that projection is thick.
I just cannot buy in to the idea that they don’t know what they’re doing.
after he would blame me for everything, he used to say he wanted me to get help for being a liar! Any truth spoken meant I was a liar. He’d want me to admit I did this on purpose and get help for that also. I never would give in to that. Not once. I couldn’t. But that projection is thick.
I just cannot buy in to the idea that they don’t know what they’re doing.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Macy.....OMG. He was really cruel to you. Pure psychological abuse.
Thank god that you can't "understand" him. You don't have the distorted character---the disordered personality that he has. It will always seem foreign to you.
This is my understanding, from those professionals that study such things---that sociopaths and such narcissistic disorders--it is not that they don't know what they are doing---it is that they DONT CARE. They don't feel like they are doing anything wrong---because they don't have the capacity for empathy and they don't recognize or value inherent human worth of others.
There is also lack of personal insight. So, forget that he will ever change or forgive. He doesn't have the capacity.
I think that you are going to be grieving the loss of this past relationship and past time of your life. It didn't turn out the way you would have wanted---and, that is a great LOSS to you. We all must grieve our losses. I think it is important for you to be aware of this---and the stages of grieving---so, that, when you are going through it, you won't mistakenly assume that it means that you did the wrong thing. You did the right thing.
Along with the usual sadness, anger, bargening, etc. associated with grieving----there seems to be a lot of ruminating about the whole thing, which goes on for quite a while.
lol...I suspect that you are doing it, now. Gosh, I remember doing it to the point that I just felt Krazy, sometimes. I had to learn to just turn my mind off by doing something entirely different to change my brain. Eventually, it does recede
I agree with some of the others, here, who say that they feel that forgiveness is highly over hyped and over rated, these days.
If it does happen---I think that it comes when you are ready for it---and, I think that it happens in the following way-----it happens when you are ready and able to say that certain things have become HISTORY in your llife---and, you accept that history doesnt change itself---it just IS and it is over---in the past---doesn't belong in your present.
to me, it is not so much that you "forgive"---it is just that it doesn't matter, any more. This may take any amount of time that it takes---it may take years or decades for some things---or, maybe never---it just depends. Personally, I don't think that all things are necessarily forgiveabe---somethings just recede so far back in history that they are essentially forgotten....but, of course, that is me.
Thank god that you can't "understand" him. You don't have the distorted character---the disordered personality that he has. It will always seem foreign to you.
This is my understanding, from those professionals that study such things---that sociopaths and such narcissistic disorders--it is not that they don't know what they are doing---it is that they DONT CARE. They don't feel like they are doing anything wrong---because they don't have the capacity for empathy and they don't recognize or value inherent human worth of others.
There is also lack of personal insight. So, forget that he will ever change or forgive. He doesn't have the capacity.
I think that you are going to be grieving the loss of this past relationship and past time of your life. It didn't turn out the way you would have wanted---and, that is a great LOSS to you. We all must grieve our losses. I think it is important for you to be aware of this---and the stages of grieving---so, that, when you are going through it, you won't mistakenly assume that it means that you did the wrong thing. You did the right thing.
Along with the usual sadness, anger, bargening, etc. associated with grieving----there seems to be a lot of ruminating about the whole thing, which goes on for quite a while.
lol...I suspect that you are doing it, now. Gosh, I remember doing it to the point that I just felt Krazy, sometimes. I had to learn to just turn my mind off by doing something entirely different to change my brain. Eventually, it does recede
I agree with some of the others, here, who say that they feel that forgiveness is highly over hyped and over rated, these days.
If it does happen---I think that it comes when you are ready for it---and, I think that it happens in the following way-----it happens when you are ready and able to say that certain things have become HISTORY in your llife---and, you accept that history doesnt change itself---it just IS and it is over---in the past---doesn't belong in your present.
to me, it is not so much that you "forgive"---it is just that it doesn't matter, any more. This may take any amount of time that it takes---it may take years or decades for some things---or, maybe never---it just depends. Personally, I don't think that all things are necessarily forgiveabe---somethings just recede so far back in history that they are essentially forgotten....but, of course, that is me.
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
Macy, I'm so glad you're moving forward! I haven't checked in for a while and all of this is great news. You are a force of nature, and won't AH be surprised to see the hurricane you've become?
Just to touch on the "one substance, all substances" thing briefly--I'm an ex-smoker, having smoked from about 15 to 36, quitting soon after XAH and I married. I am not an A, but during the first several months, I drank virtually no alcohol for 2 reasons: First, for me, a cigarette and a beer went together really well, so there was that trigger thing. Second, I'd quit before and always took it back up; I knew the process was that I'd be like "oh, I'll just bum a smoke, one smoke, what's the big deal?" and then I'd be like "well, I'll just buy a pack for tonight at the bar and throw the rest away tomorrow AM" and then I'd be like "well, it's a shame to waste these b/c they were expensive, so I'll just finish this pack" and then...you get the picture, right?
Just to touch on the "one substance, all substances" thing briefly--I'm an ex-smoker, having smoked from about 15 to 36, quitting soon after XAH and I married. I am not an A, but during the first several months, I drank virtually no alcohol for 2 reasons: First, for me, a cigarette and a beer went together really well, so there was that trigger thing. Second, I'd quit before and always took it back up; I knew the process was that I'd be like "oh, I'll just bum a smoke, one smoke, what's the big deal?" and then I'd be like "well, I'll just buy a pack for tonight at the bar and throw the rest away tomorrow AM" and then I'd be like "well, it's a shame to waste these b/c they were expensive, so I'll just finish this pack" and then...you get the picture, right?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 122
Thanks dandylion, it’s nice to hear from someone on the outside of it, who makes sense. That’s been ever lacking from my life.
honeypig, that makes sense. Well, hopefully he’s back to it. He deserves it.
honeypig, that makes sense. Well, hopefully he’s back to it. He deserves it.
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Northwest
Posts: 4,215
Macy, I am in awe. Your kids are right…you are so much stronger than you know.
Ask for the moon, particularly for your son, and ask for it now, up front, more than payments over time, because he has no ethics or morals and he’ll weasel out of it the second he thinks he can. If your lawyer plays this right, it’ll never go to divorce court because your ex would be exposed by that, both criminally and publicly, and he’ll do anything to avoid that. So please don’t be hobbled by trying to be fair, or trying to placate him. You own half PLUS what your child will need. Plus combat pay, dammit.
This is why he’s stomped down so hard on you all these years. You’re everything he’s not and he’s afraid of that.
Use it.
Ask for the moon, particularly for your son, and ask for it now, up front, more than payments over time, because he has no ethics or morals and he’ll weasel out of it the second he thinks he can. If your lawyer plays this right, it’ll never go to divorce court because your ex would be exposed by that, both criminally and publicly, and he’ll do anything to avoid that. So please don’t be hobbled by trying to be fair, or trying to placate him. You own half PLUS what your child will need. Plus combat pay, dammit.
This is why he’s stomped down so hard on you all these years. You’re everything he’s not and he’s afraid of that.
Use it.
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,426
Great job! You are strong and smart Macy 
I suggest you make sure to download and make multiple copies of all the evidence you have on your phone, and get all of it in the hands of your lawyer, with a back—up left with friend and it safe deposit box ASAP.
I also think advice to get settlements now, and more than half, instead of payments is really really a good idea. He can’t be trusted, and more importantly he may squander and lose everything when he goes back to addictions and drinking. A long-term addict can spiral pretty quickly when they feel justified and nobody is in their “way” to stop them
I suggest you make sure to download and make multiple copies of all the evidence you have on your phone, and get all of it in the hands of your lawyer, with a back—up left with friend and it safe deposit box ASAP.
I also think advice to get settlements now, and more than half, instead of payments is really really a good idea. He can’t be trusted, and more importantly he may squander and lose everything when he goes back to addictions and drinking. A long-term addict can spiral pretty quickly when they feel justified and nobody is in their “way” to stop them
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Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 136
[QUOTE I also think advice to get settlements now, and more than half, instead of payments is really really a good idea. He can’t be trusted, and more importantly he may squander and lose everything when he goes back to addictions and drinking. A long-term addict can spiral pretty quickly when they feel justified and nobody is in their “way” to stop them [/QUOTE]
I second this. AH re-started drinking about 5 years ago and went from being a highly paid operations manager ($100k+/year) to being out of a job and no income. And with an $80-100/day drinking habit, he doesn't have much in savings anymore and apparently no intention of trying to find a new job. Tells everyone he's 'retired' now, he was fired.
[/QUOTE]I second this. AH re-started drinking about 5 years ago and went from being a highly paid operations manager ($100k+/year) to being out of a job and no income. And with an $80-100/day drinking habit, he doesn't have much in savings anymore and apparently no intention of trying to find a new job. Tells everyone he's 'retired' now, he was fired.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,634
Wow, congratulations on taking all those next right steps. Doing the next right thing, listening to your mind not your mixed feelings (which are so natural at this point).
I so agree with dandylion on the forgiveness thing. It's been so hyped that you "must forgive to move on yourself" blah blah quack quack. That just isn't true lol. Someone thought it made a good saying maybe?
I agree that it can just become history, it happened, we move along.
I dated a narcissist once, it was all dramatic and sad and etc. I didn't "forgive" him, but there is no need to, I just don't care anymore. If he showed up at the door I would just close the door, I have no interest in what stupidity he is up to. I hope some day you will feel that way too and I have a hunch you will.
I so agree with dandylion on the forgiveness thing. It's been so hyped that you "must forgive to move on yourself" blah blah quack quack. That just isn't true lol. Someone thought it made a good saying maybe?
I agree that it can just become history, it happened, we move along.
I dated a narcissist once, it was all dramatic and sad and etc. I didn't "forgive" him, but there is no need to, I just don't care anymore. If he showed up at the door I would just close the door, I have no interest in what stupidity he is up to. I hope some day you will feel that way too and I have a hunch you will.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 122
Oh I do too trailmix, no doubt about it.
one thing that baffles me is the way he would be so mean and angry acting when I’d leave. He would claim he was trying to get me to come back home. He was wanting me to come back home. As if he believed the mean stuff, all negative about me (putting it nicely) was conveying that sentiment. I would be so mistrusting. Like a person saying yes while shaking their head no, only worse.
who in their right mind believes they’re trying to straighten something out and convey they want their family back by behaving so mean, nasty, negative and angry. I’ll never get it. In my world, it means exactly what it seems. And that is the opposite of what he’d say.
I’m angry today. Which I prefer.
one thing that baffles me is the way he would be so mean and angry acting when I’d leave. He would claim he was trying to get me to come back home. He was wanting me to come back home. As if he believed the mean stuff, all negative about me (putting it nicely) was conveying that sentiment. I would be so mistrusting. Like a person saying yes while shaking their head no, only worse.
who in their right mind believes they’re trying to straighten something out and convey they want their family back by behaving so mean, nasty, negative and angry. I’ll never get it. In my world, it means exactly what it seems. And that is the opposite of what he’d say.
I’m angry today. Which I prefer.
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Join Date: Jan 2016
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one thing that baffles me is the way he would be so mean and angry acting when I’d leave. He would claim he was trying to get me to come back home. He was wanting me to come back home.
With guys like this, it’s all about control. In his world, if you win, he loses…there’s no such thing as a win-win.
And IMO, a marriage by definition should always be about finding the win-win.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2021
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There you go again ariesagain, with All that sense. It grosses me out when the light bulb flashes and screams “that’s it”. What I couldn’t put into words. What seemed so scary and confusing, now, is just gross. So unattractive. Like a bratty toddler only in an adult body and with an adult vocabulary. Boiling it down as such does calm my fear. It’s almost laughable.
his worst night mare should be the day I wake up fully.
his worst night mare should be the day I wake up fully.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,634
Originally Posted by Macyc 
who in their right mind believes they’re trying to straighten something out and convey they want their family back by behaving so mean, nasty, negative and angry. I’ll never get it. In my world, it means exactly what it seems. And that is the opposite of what he’d say.
Another one is when people pout, I can't stand it lol - you know the, what, you don't want to go - pout face. Now I am sure that also works on some people.
In any scenario like that, the other person has failed to take in to account who they are talking to and what they are like, they just use their go-to.
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Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 336
Macy, what you are doing is incredible and I hope anyone in a similar situation reads these threads and feels inspired.
For empaths, I also recommend Pia Mellody’s book “Facing Codependence.” She talks a lot about something called ‘carried emotions’ where you are absorbing the emotions of those around you, but your mind/body perceives them as if they are you own, which is of course a confusing and overwhelming sensation. These emotions feel foreign and illogical (since they aren’t actually your own emotional reaction to a situation) but also so real. Parts of that book were so helpful for me.
For empaths, I also recommend Pia Mellody’s book “Facing Codependence.” She talks a lot about something called ‘carried emotions’ where you are absorbing the emotions of those around you, but your mind/body perceives them as if they are you own, which is of course a confusing and overwhelming sensation. These emotions feel foreign and illogical (since they aren’t actually your own emotional reaction to a situation) but also so real. Parts of that book were so helpful for me.
Moving On
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 13
I do know that some who drink a lot do Cocaine to stay awake and drink more. I guess my ex Q, let's call him drunk a hole, said he used to do coke, but not anymore. Lol yeah right. That's why he usually sleeps by 8 not drinking, up til 4 am when drunk. They are addicts. Period.
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