Need some advice
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 259
Need some advice
Hey everyone, it has been a while since I've been on here. I have been busy with life and my AH, the roller coaster continues I suppose. I realize this will be a novel, so the tldr is that my partner has been relapsing more frequently, and I need advice on how to protect myself/the house/our finances and other important things in my life if he ends up in a long-term rehab facility (by force or by choice) at some point, or if this ends in divorce, or worse.
For those of you in the mood for too much reading, here's the wall of text:
Last year in May he had drank severely until he ran out, then felt so terrible from the withdrawal that he called me at work saying he wanted to kill himself. I took him to the hospital, where he was given fluids/meds, then turned down detox and was released AMA. After that he was able to maintain 3 months of sobriety. In August he began slipping back into hiding drinks and keeping it low enough to still function.
Then in September he binge drank again, and agreed that he needed help. He went to a detox facility, but felt the conditions there we so bad he couldn't tolerate it, and left after 2 days.
At the end of January, he drank again until running out, and the withdrawal was so severe that he couldn't control his breathing. He was hyperventilating, sweating, rocking back and forth, and his hands were tightening into claws beyond his control. He refused to go to the hospital, but eventually agreed I was incapable of caring for him medically. He went to a detox facility for a week, then turned down long-term rehab. He had intensive outpatient care for about a month, and after that generally managed to make it an average of 2-3 weeks between relapses.
At the tail end of April, he had his most extreme relapse. We had been working on improving our communication, and discussing difficult topics. When I got home that night, he seemed to be a bit drunk, but insisted he wasn't. We went on our normal nightly walk, during which time he stated how he felt he shouldn't have gone to detox, how treatment was unnecessary, etc. I calmly disagreed with him on that, but it was clear he was becoming agitated. Once we made it back home, he got louder and very in my face about him going to treatment for me and how everything wrong must be his fault, etc, until I broke off the conversation and told him I needed a break to calm down and take my shower; we could discuss this more when we were both calmer later. Shortly after I started my shower, the switch flipped, and he was back to being sad and apologetic and telling me how sorry he was while I tried to wash. I said I understood his frustrations, I was just worried that not seeking more treatment would make it easy for us to fall back into complacent habits (something like that, I don't remember exactly what anymore). It flipped the switch again, and he was back to angrily yelling at me and gesticulating wildly. I began to feel trapped and a little panicked, and that I wouldn't have any peace in the house. After my shower I told him I'd like to get a hotel room for myself for the night so I could have time alone, and that I would be back the next day after work. He said I should take the cat, to which I said "How am I supposed to bring a cat to a hotel room? What, do you want it? -the room-" This was enough of an excuse for him, and he stormed out of the house. Telling me to **** off, I could keep the house, etc.
After this he was largely silent for a week, binge drinking in a hotel. At the end of the week, he called me in the middle of the night Saturday to say he was suicidal and in pain. I held firm to my boundary, and told him he needed to be the one to call for help. If he felt medically unable to, I would call the hospital, but otherwise he needed to be in charge of his own care. He ended up calling for help Sunday morning. After staying in the hospital for a day, he returned home late Sunday night. Monday we discussed our boundaries again, particularly about respecting the rule for no drinking in the house.
About a week and a half ago, I came home Monday to find him drunk again. We talked about respecting boundaries, and not drinking in the house. I told him I don't think he should be driving, but he should call for a ride or an uber, and find a hotel room or stay with family if he is going to drink. I said I can't force him to leave or stay, nor stop him from driving if he chooses that, but once he was sober we could talk about things again. When I returned from my walk, he had driven off. He was silent for a while again, then Wednesday began responding in our group family chat, and said he was "sober enough to drive." I called to talk, and saw he was clearly drunk and unbalanced. He was making a lot of suicidal comments again, and laughing at inappropriate times in conversation. (Sort of like in the new Joker movie.) He refused to say where he was, and that he had been "changing hotel rooms every night so 'they' couldn't find him." When asked he didn't seem to know who "they" were, or realize he'd only been out about two days. I decided to call the police, who were able to locate him and bring him to a hospital.
The kicker in all this is that when the nurse at the hospital called me the next morning, because he was cooperating with them at that point, (it's amazing how cooperative he becomes when doctors get involved) and he had stayed at different hospitals/detox facilities up to this point, they didn't have enough history to use section 35 to put him in rehab. She said as his spouse I have the ability to file for it personally, but at that time they could not. Once he returned home, we had more talks over the next few days. I told him about the suicidal things he said to me, the way he was drinking and driving, and what the hospital had said. I told him I wasn't ready to file for section 35 myself, because I didn't want to take that control over his treatment away from him. That said, the reality of the situation is he has begun consistently risking other people's safety by driving drunk, as well as his own. I said I think he should look for long-term treatment while he is the one able to choose what he wants for himself, because if he's hospitalized again, he may lose all choice. I ended by saying that even if it hurt our marriage, if I felt like he was a danger to himself, I would file it if it reached that point.
Tonight when I arrived home, it was rather clear to me he was drunk. He had been largely silent all day in our various group chats among friends, and was swaying in his computer chair. When I went to shower, I saw a nip that had rolled under the couch. I set it on the coffee table, and showered before trying to discuss it. By the time I finished, he was curled up on the couch, completely cocooned in his blanket. His head was totally covered, and he was only responding to me in grunts, if at all. I said I was going on my walk, and that I loved him. When he didn't respond I lifted the blanket to see if he was even conscious. He told me "I don't think you do" then lulled back out of it. After returning from my walk 40 minutes later, he was out cold and didn't respond to me at all. While getting dinner together, I heard him cough and then gasp for air a couple times. I got worried at this point of him choking, and checked to see if he was responding. He could open his eyes to look at me and grunt, but then faded back out of it a few seconds later. When I woke him to say I wanted to call him an ambulance, he was able to get out a "no" before going back out. After that he stopped really responding to me, so I called the police.
The paramedics arrived shortly after, and wow, like magic, suddenly he was able to sit up and respond! They let him get dressed, the whole time which he glared at me (naturally that glare also disappeared when the returned back in. More magic I suppose.) Once they started asking him questions he fumbled his way through saying he'd "only had 5 drinks" to the cop, then 6 to the paramedic, etc. Yet, since he was cooperating with them, and insistent that he was just drunk, not suicidal, not a risk to me or himself, etc, they said they couldn't force him to come in. He insisted I was just exaggerating, though thankfully the cop saw through that immediately. The made it clear if he had to come back, AH would be spending the night sobering up at the station. After they left, he curled back up on the couch for a couple hours. Then he woke up and came in to tell me how I'm using the state against him, and they clearly disagree with me. How he doesn't even want to talk to me, and he's leaving, etc. I held firm and told him how unresponsive he'd been with me, and that everything I've done to this point has been to protect his health, and mine. At least this time he called his sister to pick him up and stay with her, instead of drunk driving to a hotel.
So now he's out of the house again. I'm both hurt and relieved, and unsure of what to do next. I think things are broken between us in a way I don't know how to fix, but I have no idea what my next steps are. I don't think I can float our house alone financially, but we haven't had it for a year yet, so we can't sell it. I don't know who I should call professionally for this stuff. I do have a support group run by a counselor, who I am in contact with every week, and a very strong family support network, so mentally I feel alright. I just don't know what to do next. I would love some advice, though it helps to just vent everything in writing as well. Thanks to anyone who made it through.
For those of you in the mood for too much reading, here's the wall of text:
Last year in May he had drank severely until he ran out, then felt so terrible from the withdrawal that he called me at work saying he wanted to kill himself. I took him to the hospital, where he was given fluids/meds, then turned down detox and was released AMA. After that he was able to maintain 3 months of sobriety. In August he began slipping back into hiding drinks and keeping it low enough to still function.
Then in September he binge drank again, and agreed that he needed help. He went to a detox facility, but felt the conditions there we so bad he couldn't tolerate it, and left after 2 days.
At the end of January, he drank again until running out, and the withdrawal was so severe that he couldn't control his breathing. He was hyperventilating, sweating, rocking back and forth, and his hands were tightening into claws beyond his control. He refused to go to the hospital, but eventually agreed I was incapable of caring for him medically. He went to a detox facility for a week, then turned down long-term rehab. He had intensive outpatient care for about a month, and after that generally managed to make it an average of 2-3 weeks between relapses.
At the tail end of April, he had his most extreme relapse. We had been working on improving our communication, and discussing difficult topics. When I got home that night, he seemed to be a bit drunk, but insisted he wasn't. We went on our normal nightly walk, during which time he stated how he felt he shouldn't have gone to detox, how treatment was unnecessary, etc. I calmly disagreed with him on that, but it was clear he was becoming agitated. Once we made it back home, he got louder and very in my face about him going to treatment for me and how everything wrong must be his fault, etc, until I broke off the conversation and told him I needed a break to calm down and take my shower; we could discuss this more when we were both calmer later. Shortly after I started my shower, the switch flipped, and he was back to being sad and apologetic and telling me how sorry he was while I tried to wash. I said I understood his frustrations, I was just worried that not seeking more treatment would make it easy for us to fall back into complacent habits (something like that, I don't remember exactly what anymore). It flipped the switch again, and he was back to angrily yelling at me and gesticulating wildly. I began to feel trapped and a little panicked, and that I wouldn't have any peace in the house. After my shower I told him I'd like to get a hotel room for myself for the night so I could have time alone, and that I would be back the next day after work. He said I should take the cat, to which I said "How am I supposed to bring a cat to a hotel room? What, do you want it? -the room-" This was enough of an excuse for him, and he stormed out of the house. Telling me to **** off, I could keep the house, etc.
After this he was largely silent for a week, binge drinking in a hotel. At the end of the week, he called me in the middle of the night Saturday to say he was suicidal and in pain. I held firm to my boundary, and told him he needed to be the one to call for help. If he felt medically unable to, I would call the hospital, but otherwise he needed to be in charge of his own care. He ended up calling for help Sunday morning. After staying in the hospital for a day, he returned home late Sunday night. Monday we discussed our boundaries again, particularly about respecting the rule for no drinking in the house.
About a week and a half ago, I came home Monday to find him drunk again. We talked about respecting boundaries, and not drinking in the house. I told him I don't think he should be driving, but he should call for a ride or an uber, and find a hotel room or stay with family if he is going to drink. I said I can't force him to leave or stay, nor stop him from driving if he chooses that, but once he was sober we could talk about things again. When I returned from my walk, he had driven off. He was silent for a while again, then Wednesday began responding in our group family chat, and said he was "sober enough to drive." I called to talk, and saw he was clearly drunk and unbalanced. He was making a lot of suicidal comments again, and laughing at inappropriate times in conversation. (Sort of like in the new Joker movie.) He refused to say where he was, and that he had been "changing hotel rooms every night so 'they' couldn't find him." When asked he didn't seem to know who "they" were, or realize he'd only been out about two days. I decided to call the police, who were able to locate him and bring him to a hospital.
The kicker in all this is that when the nurse at the hospital called me the next morning, because he was cooperating with them at that point, (it's amazing how cooperative he becomes when doctors get involved) and he had stayed at different hospitals/detox facilities up to this point, they didn't have enough history to use section 35 to put him in rehab. She said as his spouse I have the ability to file for it personally, but at that time they could not. Once he returned home, we had more talks over the next few days. I told him about the suicidal things he said to me, the way he was drinking and driving, and what the hospital had said. I told him I wasn't ready to file for section 35 myself, because I didn't want to take that control over his treatment away from him. That said, the reality of the situation is he has begun consistently risking other people's safety by driving drunk, as well as his own. I said I think he should look for long-term treatment while he is the one able to choose what he wants for himself, because if he's hospitalized again, he may lose all choice. I ended by saying that even if it hurt our marriage, if I felt like he was a danger to himself, I would file it if it reached that point.
Tonight when I arrived home, it was rather clear to me he was drunk. He had been largely silent all day in our various group chats among friends, and was swaying in his computer chair. When I went to shower, I saw a nip that had rolled under the couch. I set it on the coffee table, and showered before trying to discuss it. By the time I finished, he was curled up on the couch, completely cocooned in his blanket. His head was totally covered, and he was only responding to me in grunts, if at all. I said I was going on my walk, and that I loved him. When he didn't respond I lifted the blanket to see if he was even conscious. He told me "I don't think you do" then lulled back out of it. After returning from my walk 40 minutes later, he was out cold and didn't respond to me at all. While getting dinner together, I heard him cough and then gasp for air a couple times. I got worried at this point of him choking, and checked to see if he was responding. He could open his eyes to look at me and grunt, but then faded back out of it a few seconds later. When I woke him to say I wanted to call him an ambulance, he was able to get out a "no" before going back out. After that he stopped really responding to me, so I called the police.
The paramedics arrived shortly after, and wow, like magic, suddenly he was able to sit up and respond! They let him get dressed, the whole time which he glared at me (naturally that glare also disappeared when the returned back in. More magic I suppose.) Once they started asking him questions he fumbled his way through saying he'd "only had 5 drinks" to the cop, then 6 to the paramedic, etc. Yet, since he was cooperating with them, and insistent that he was just drunk, not suicidal, not a risk to me or himself, etc, they said they couldn't force him to come in. He insisted I was just exaggerating, though thankfully the cop saw through that immediately. The made it clear if he had to come back, AH would be spending the night sobering up at the station. After they left, he curled back up on the couch for a couple hours. Then he woke up and came in to tell me how I'm using the state against him, and they clearly disagree with me. How he doesn't even want to talk to me, and he's leaving, etc. I held firm and told him how unresponsive he'd been with me, and that everything I've done to this point has been to protect his health, and mine. At least this time he called his sister to pick him up and stay with her, instead of drunk driving to a hotel.
So now he's out of the house again. I'm both hurt and relieved, and unsure of what to do next. I think things are broken between us in a way I don't know how to fix, but I have no idea what my next steps are. I don't think I can float our house alone financially, but we haven't had it for a year yet, so we can't sell it. I don't know who I should call professionally for this stuff. I do have a support group run by a counselor, who I am in contact with every week, and a very strong family support network, so mentally I feel alright. I just don't know what to do next. I would love some advice, though it helps to just vent everything in writing as well. Thanks to anyone who made it through.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Cookie.....here is a link to an article from out list of articles in our "Stickies" section...that are located just under the regular threads. I think it is a pretty good yardstick.
10 Ways to Tell When an Addict or Alcoholic is Full of Crap - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information (10 Ways to Tell When an Addict or Alcoholic is Full of Crap)
10 Ways to Tell When an Addict or Alcoholic is Full of Crap - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information (10 Ways to Tell When an Addict or Alcoholic is Full of Crap)
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Cookies.....here is another link that might help you with knowing your rights as well as his, This website is listed by state. It might help you to organize your thoughts and know what questions to ask.
Divorce Advice, Laws, and Information from WomansDivorce.com
Divorce Advice, Laws, and Information from WomansDivorce.com
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Northwest
Posts: 4,215
I’m sorry to hear you’re going through this…I’m on my way out the door, so just wanted to say I hope you’ll spend some time looking through the links DandyLion has offered.
Also…I don’t know where you live but I’ve never seen a better time to sell a house. You might not make money once you pay closing costs, but you might well break even. So talking to a realtor might be a good next step before you assume you “can’t” sell it because it’s been a relatively short time since you bought it.
You know you don’t want to keep living this way. Paramedics, cops, ER physicians, hospitals…it all sounds completely exhausting and it certainly isn’t getting him anywhere anyway.
One last thought…if he keeps drinking like this and driving, sooner or later he’s going to hurt someone and/or himself and you would potentially lose everything to a law suit depending on what damage he causes. You may want to consider divorce as much to protect your assets as much as anything else…it sounds harsh, but it’s true.
Wishing you well…
Also…I don’t know where you live but I’ve never seen a better time to sell a house. You might not make money once you pay closing costs, but you might well break even. So talking to a realtor might be a good next step before you assume you “can’t” sell it because it’s been a relatively short time since you bought it.
You know you don’t want to keep living this way. Paramedics, cops, ER physicians, hospitals…it all sounds completely exhausting and it certainly isn’t getting him anywhere anyway.
One last thought…if he keeps drinking like this and driving, sooner or later he’s going to hurt someone and/or himself and you would potentially lose everything to a law suit depending on what damage he causes. You may want to consider divorce as much to protect your assets as much as anything else…it sounds harsh, but it’s true.
Wishing you well…
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,620
What a tough situation to be in. The relationship may already be broken, but if not it certainly will be if this continues. You can't even feel relaxed and safe in your own home.
The best scenario would be for him to go to a long term treatment facility and then perhaps to a sober living facility. That said, is that even realistic, can you all actually do that?
You mentioned you may not be able to afford the house on your own, so he is still working? If so, that surely won't last for long if he keeps on down this path.
Personally I would sit down and work out a realistic budget for yourself, to see if you could afford the house. If not, are there any options where you could make a bit more money to do that. If not, as Aries mentioned, I would consult with a realtor to see what a realistic price for the house might be now.
All that said, it actually doesn't sound like he wants treatment he just keeps stumbling in to it. Then again, he may just be sitting on the fence. As long as he can keep putting one foot in front of the other, he will be headed to the liquor store?
You've set a boundary you are standing by and he is pretty much ignoring it.
So, personally, I would do the investigation above, the budget and the house appraisal. Perhaps taking in to account with the budget that you might need to get a house mate.
The best scenario would be for him to go to a long term treatment facility and then perhaps to a sober living facility. That said, is that even realistic, can you all actually do that?
You mentioned you may not be able to afford the house on your own, so he is still working? If so, that surely won't last for long if he keeps on down this path.
Personally I would sit down and work out a realistic budget for yourself, to see if you could afford the house. If not, are there any options where you could make a bit more money to do that. If not, as Aries mentioned, I would consult with a realtor to see what a realistic price for the house might be now.
All that said, it actually doesn't sound like he wants treatment he just keeps stumbling in to it. Then again, he may just be sitting on the fence. As long as he can keep putting one foot in front of the other, he will be headed to the liquor store?
You've set a boundary you are standing by and he is pretty much ignoring it.
So, personally, I would do the investigation above, the budget and the house appraisal. Perhaps taking in to account with the budget that you might need to get a house mate.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 259
Dandylion, I think that sticky needs to be a checklist, or possibly the world's worst bingo board. It describes so many of his thoughts and actions. Particularly about the person that knows exactly what to say. He is very good at saying just the right thing to placate this around him, including me.
I've made a lot of progress in setting proper boundaries, and discussing them, even when painful. They have definitely helped my sanity tremendously. Of course all of this is painful, but it's more... manageable and understandable. I don't look at feeling unsure or hurt as a sign of personal weakness or failure like I used to.
I also agree that creating a solo budget sounds like a good next step. I might not be able to float the house on my own, though if I could it would be great not to lose it. I'll be sure to read the other link about housing rights next.
I've made a lot of progress in setting proper boundaries, and discussing them, even when painful. They have definitely helped my sanity tremendously. Of course all of this is painful, but it's more... manageable and understandable. I don't look at feeling unsure or hurt as a sign of personal weakness or failure like I used to.
I also agree that creating a solo budget sounds like a good next step. I might not be able to float the house on my own, though if I could it would be great not to lose it. I'll be sure to read the other link about housing rights next.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 334
Financially, I agree that it’s hugely important to protect your assets. If things get worse, it’s critical, if things improve between you, you’ll both be grateful.
In most places it is definitely a sellers market, and if not, if you have no kids, it may be worth it to look at a roommate. Adult roommates don’t sound fun, but the rental income can help make up the difference in being able to pay the mortgage, as well as help keep you safe if you get concerned AH will come back to the home in a dangerous or emotionally unstable way.
For me, the fear of losing the “good” AH forever sometimes makes me too scared to make the healthy choices I need to make now. But the realization that helped me break through, was realizing that when I try to hold onto the past with my AH (especially the good) it actually makes a future with him feel more impossible. Because the pain of feeling like he’s betraying our relationship (and me) with his current actions is so heavy, I don’t know if I can ever forgive him for what he’s put me and my family through. But when I take steps towards truly letting go of what we had, I understand that any possible future with him will have to be new, and will have to be earned, and will be something I can’t picture now because it won’t be like the past.
I’ll admit though, in my case it’s still getting worse before it gets better and we are living in different states. Divorce (just like marriage) isn’t forever, but it may be the safest choice now.
In most places it is definitely a sellers market, and if not, if you have no kids, it may be worth it to look at a roommate. Adult roommates don’t sound fun, but the rental income can help make up the difference in being able to pay the mortgage, as well as help keep you safe if you get concerned AH will come back to the home in a dangerous or emotionally unstable way.
For me, the fear of losing the “good” AH forever sometimes makes me too scared to make the healthy choices I need to make now. But the realization that helped me break through, was realizing that when I try to hold onto the past with my AH (especially the good) it actually makes a future with him feel more impossible. Because the pain of feeling like he’s betraying our relationship (and me) with his current actions is so heavy, I don’t know if I can ever forgive him for what he’s put me and my family through. But when I take steps towards truly letting go of what we had, I understand that any possible future with him will have to be new, and will have to be earned, and will be something I can’t picture now because it won’t be like the past.
I’ll admit though, in my case it’s still getting worse before it gets better and we are living in different states. Divorce (just like marriage) isn’t forever, but it may be the safest choice now.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 259
Originally Posted by edoering 
For me, the fear of losing the “good” AH forever sometimes makes me too scared to make the healthy choices I need to make now. But the realization that helped me break through, was realizing that when I try to hold onto the past with my AH (especially the good) it actually makes a future with him feel more impossible.
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