PeacefulWater12

Dropping this thought in this thread as it is not about anyone in particular so I thought this thread is neutral.

Anyways my thought recently is when reading around our forum is that really really really really really really really it isn't about alcohol.

Yes, this is a forum for Friends and Family of Alkies but the reality is that fact they are alkies/addicts is just the top layer. The real issue is the abusive behaviours on their side and on our side is that we tolerate these abusive behaviours.

It feels more and more to me that the booze is just top layer and the abusive beneath is the real issue.

Often the drinking is used as an excuse(on both sides) for the underlaying abusive attitudes and abusive behaviours.

Take the drinking away and the abusive attitude is still there!

So us codies are flogging our guts out trying to get "our" alkies to quit which then if they do, just reveals the abusive attitude underneath!

It just takes it to another layer.

If you look at the Abuse Cycle in an abusive relationship, it has the same stages whether alcohol use is present or not.

This has helped me in my recovery a lot. I can see I choose an abusive man to marry. (His drinking was by the by). I (underlined several times) picked an abusive man. So this allows me very clearly to see what I need to work on in myself to change.

I think coming from a background of generations of alcohols, that was the flavour of abuse I went for but it could have been any type of abuse. Abuse is abuse regardless of the top layer and outward appearance.

Also each situation is very simple. It is usually twisted and woven around like a spider web but really it boils down to - one person is being abusive, the other person is being abused.

Just some thoughts. Putting pen to paper. Haha, my first version was written wiith words that would have been ****** out automatically. I was aware of that but enjoying writing it. Very cleansing. Before I hit post, I cleaned it up to polite words!!

sage1969

@PeacefulWater12 Thank you for this clarity.

It is all about codies tolerating abuse, and abuse is anything that would infringe upon our boundaries.

Some of us start out with good boundaries and let them be violated; some of us never learn what are boundaries, so never have them to begin with.

So my writing prompt for myself today is to take a look at what are my boundaries now.

PeacefulWater12

Thanks for this, Sage.

When I started this journey I had zero boundaries. None At All.

I didn't even know I was meant to. Growing up everyone stomped over everyone elses personal space. Every ones personal business was a free for all for everyone to dive in, meddle, give opinions. Lots of blame, scapegoating etc.

Anyone having a problem was gleefully met by a mob of others rolling up their sleeves and get stuck in to interfere and generally enjoy high intensity drama. Looking back it was like a pack of animals.

It has been a gradual process of learning to discover I have to not only have boundaries but enforce them.

That others were not entitled to trample over me or me over them. That my business is my own.

I had to learn where my responsibility started and stopped.

I had an absolute ton to learn. Thankfully there are great resources available to us now, which I have embraced.

Thanks again for your thoughts, Sage. The person I am today thanks to my personal growth wouldn't attract an abusive man, they would find me intimidating. Equally I wouldn't find an abusive man attractive. That sounds like a win to me. Plenty more work to do though. Onwards.

sage1969

Growing up in my FOO we were told what our boundaries should be but then the adults insisted that those boundaries didn't apply, that I had to listen / obey no matter what, along with all the other destructive patterns you mentioned, like scapegoating, blame, drama . . . no wonder I had no boundaries as a teen or young adult. How do you tell someone "no," when all it meant was the parent was going to do it anyway? That coupled with some seriously risky situations caused me to really become messed up. I had to do a lot of work around "no," to give the word back it's power.

I'm finding this same thing to be true. I think it is the combination of energy, attitude, and physical posture. I have also noticed that people, both men and women, who give me the red flag gut feeling are not able to look me in the eye. They know, and they want no part of me, and I'm truly fine with that.

As I find and build new friendships, I'm choosing who I want to spend time with. Before, it was who I was thrown together with by circumstance. Now it is because I'm respecting my own boundaries first.

PeacefulWater12

Gosh, yes, This. Thank you so much for saying this. Exactly what I have been experiencing. People just know. I agree is my energy, attitude, posture. I stand tall, look upwards, meet people eyes although as you say, the red flag people cannot look me in the eye. Just a general inner confidence I give off now rebels them.

My recovery buddy has experienced the same. Both in personal life and in business.

Interesting regarding your boundaries growing up, that you were actually taught them but at the same time you were shown that they could be overridden by certain people.

I also ended up with friends purely by circumstance. I didn't like them. None of them.

I thought that was normal! Ooops, eventually I discovered it wasn't. I have started to pick new friends, ones I actually like and who like me. Healthy people who are into personal growth. I have two and to be honest that is enough. Both are fabulous and we get on so very well. Strong, solid people who know who they are. As an introvert I would rather have two deep, close friends than a hoard of casual ones.

One lady has been literally pestering me to be friends with her but I have resisted. I can see she is very energy draining. I suspect she has driven away her old friends so is looking for a new people to drain. It won't be me! Haha.

I think a lot of this is to do with the energy we give off. As to who we do and do not attract. Toxic people have a horrible toxic energy coming off them. Stagnant. I am told I have a strong, calm, warm energy coming off me now.

edoering

I will say I don’t find this to be the case for myself. My partner was never abusive. When substances entered our life, and simultaneously PTSD/depression, there was a switch to self-destructive behaviors that cost us both our life together, but he was never abusive before (or during for that matter). So for me, and based on conversations with his family, substance abuse is a major crux of our struggles. As his former sponsor shared, addiction for some people is inseparable from mental illness, it functions as mental illness and it’s best treated as mental illness and it is often comorbid with other disorders. A chicken and egg scenario. But there isn’t really a way to separate him from his addiction. In fact, thinking he had addressed his inner demons and therefore could “handle” reintroducing substances (the logic being that they weren’t the root problem, rather a symptom of the root problem) was a big part of how everything fell apart.

PeacefulWater12

Thank you for this, always interesting to hear other perspectives.

sage1969

I can see how addiction could be treated as mental illness. When it comes down to it, mental illness is a biochemical process in the brain, where depending on the illness, there're not enough receptors, too many or not enough neurotransmitters -- it's all chemical. And addictions, whether alcohol or other drugs (or the adrenaline generated by codie behaviors and responses), are chemicals that we add to our neurological systems to affect those biochemical processes.

So it's understandable to approach alcoholism in this way, and if it's mixed up with PTSD and trauma, there's definitely an argument to coordinate services with mental healthcare providers.

Perhaps now is a good time to really sit with this one sentence. If others are doing the separating, no, I agree, it will never work. Only he can decide to change his life, no one else.

If he can't or won't recognise addiction is not the same as who he is, deep down inside, if he only identifies with being addicted like having green eyes or blond hair, then again, it will never work. He has to recognise that the addiction does not define who he is, and that he can live independently from that addiction.

And, as a codependent and coalcoholic with him, you yourself will need to also rewrite this sentence. Empower yourself to let him find his own solutions and let you find your own solutions. Even though you say that the reintroduction of substances for him was what triggered this current state of affairs, at what point would it have all come tumbling down again for you?