PeacefulWater12

I am very sorry for your loss, Edoering. Thank you for sharing that you also experienced this. I never have before.

I thought it was "normal" to feel uneasy and jittery around people. I can now see it is not, it was just the people I was attracted to be around. Repeating my childhood experience of fear, unease, on edge ready for attack all the time.

I notice people do give off a certain frequency of energy. I fined this fascinating and have been reading into it recently.

As an empath (a trauma response from childhood as the current thinking now suggests) I am ultra aware and sensitive to it, I can feel and read people with ease. I like to look at this as a gift now despite it developing as a trauma protection.

I expect a lot of us on this forum are empaths, if we walk into a room of say, ten people we know in an instant how each one is feeling. I have been able to use this skill in my job, my sponsor also does in his job. A useful skill.

Another thing I notice about my healthy friend is that he does not pressure, he will ask or suggest something then allow me as long as I want to think it over. None of that badgering for an immediate answer like damaged people do. They want a fast answer as whatever they are pushing for is always destructive in some way.

Damaged people are living in a high/crash low of chemicals. Driven by distorted thinking and what they think are emotions but really are chemical releases caused by whatever substance or addictive behaviour is in play in that moment. It is not based in reality.

Anyway, just some thoughts this calm Saturday morning.

I send thanks to a member here who mentioned Caroline Strawson. Sorry I don't recall the members name. I have been listening to Caroline on You Tube, she deals with trauma from being with narcissists. She was married to one. Eye opening for me. Lots of moments in me of "oh, so that's why that happened". Very helpful to me, for my processing and releasing the trauma.

She mentions that is common for narcissists to use addictions. The addiction being the top layer, the root problem being the narcissism beneath.

She was saying narcs and codies are formed in childhood. We are born with a blank mind, our circumstances form how act. It is all about trying to keep ourselves safe in unsafe childhood environments.

We can go either way in what protection we use. A narc goes down the take take take take route. A codie goes down the give give give give route.

Both toxic and unhealthy. Anyways, hence a codie and narc are a perfect fit. Both have no boundaries and no idea of what healthy looks like. A match in toxic heaven!

Thankful to say I am working on changing that in me.

Have a good day all.

PeacefulWater12

I have a couple of "smart arses" in my life. I am as low contact with them as is possible.

Anyways I notice now I give zero (ZERO) reaction to their smart arse comments, they are gradually stopping doing it.

It is disappearing right in front of my eyes. One of them has even started to apologise for his gut reaction smart arse response. (His own protective defense mechanism, I suppose). Silence and zero reaction trumps smart arse undermining comment. Squeezes the air out of it.

It felt very uncomfortable to me at first to give no response, my programming is that I am supposed to give a hearty laugh and act like these childish comments are the most hilarious thing I have heard in my life! I developed this programming living with a drunk father who acted like an a***hole a lot and expected praise for how hilarious he was.

Onwards.

More and more I am seeing if I change my part of the interaction, the whole thing changes.

When I don't dutifully say my half of the old, tired script. In that moment it all shifts.

We have far more personal power than we realise. Change ourselves, our world changes.

Another thing I noticed is an old pal has stopped phoning twice a week to dump her moans on me. I changed how I reacted. Instead of sympathy when listening to her repeat the same pattern of self destruct she has repeated for 50 years, I started to ask what she was going to do to solve the problem. Obviously not the response she wanted. Gone in a puff of smoke!

velma929

Peaceful, I used to work with a dry drunk. I mean he seriously had quit drinking, but everything going wrong in his world was everybody else's fault somehow. Speeding tickets? Cops 'out to get him' even though he knew the oversized tires on his car created a false reading on his speedometer. No sex life - (Yes, he mentioned it at work) I'll bet it was because he was having affairs. Money troubles? He belonged to an MLM and was buying excess product every month to qualify for points, so Noooooo, can't stop that. One day, he came in sniffling and frowning. I made the mistake of asking what was wrong. He said, "My doctor thinks I may be suffering from depression. I don't know how you want to deal with that." I said, "I don't expect to deal with that. If you don't feel well enough to come to work, maybe you should stay home." Not what he was hoping for.

And yeah, I've been on and off anti-depressants (mostly on) for decades, so I 'get it.' My workmates expect me to come in and do my thing to the best of my ability. I don't ask them to be therapists. I didn't ask my shrink for a paycheck.

PeacefulWater12

Thanks so much for sharing this. Doesn't it feel great when you realise you haven't got hooked in?? Big boost to self esteem. Well played with him.

Speaking from my own experience, I have found dry drunks far harder work to be around than active ones!

PeacefulWater12

I had visitors in my home today. Came for coffees, chats and a meal. It was so very nice.

When late AH was here, it always used to be very tense. He would be anxious before, during and after the visit. Eventually I stopped having people to visit as it was so much pressure from him. I swapped to meeting friends/family in coffee shops on my own.

He would be tense as he needed a drink, he would tend to not drink before they came so would be craving and getting desperate. He would monologue a lot so no one else got a word in. As soon as visitors left, he would sink into a big drink.

He resented anyone coming, of course, as it got in the way of his drinking routine.

Today felt so very normal! I like it.

SmallButMighty

Amen Sister!

This was also my experience. As much as I didn't want AXH to drink.. at least I knew what to expect and how to deal with it when he was drinking... his dry drunk behavior was way more volatile and unpredictable.

PeacefulWater12

100%.

Late A hubby quit briefly from time to time, always due to an outside issue such as wanting to slim down a bit. Never because of actual alcoholism. He would make big fanfare announcement that he was quitting, my heart would sink! Luckily it never lasted long. He was far more relaxed and pleasant with alcohol in his system.

Many, many years ago, I worked with a lady who smoked who periodically would quit. Urgh, hell on earth. She was sooooo nasty. Also created a terribly tense atmosphere. It wouldn't be tolerated these days, of course. It was work place bullying. When she gave up her quits, I swear the whole office sighed in relief! Haha!

An alcoholic who is not drinking and is not working a recovery is not at all pleasant. The visual is red faced, screaming baby who has had their bottle of milk taken from them!

Runn awaaaaaay fast!

velma929

He would monologue a lot so no one else got a word in.

Late AH had a variation on that. He'd be reading a book, or have seen a movie, and every conversation he'd turn around to talk about his latest obsession. It didn't matter what anyone else was discussing. He had to have a chance to expound on "Uncle John's Bathroom Reader" even if the neighbor was talking about reading "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe" to her kids.

PeacefulWater12

LOL!! I relate to this too, Velma. My late A hubby used to do similar on his various obsessions.

Thank you for speaking of your late AH. I hope you don't mind me asking and if so, is no problem I understand and please just don't answer. I fully respect it.

Would you mind sharing a little on how you felt when he passed. Is such a complex emotional situation.

I contrast my own experience of my AH dying with a pal who was discarded by her A boyfriend of 12 years. He discarded her for a new supply. All about the same time as my AH died. What interests me is that I am finding it far easier to adapt and move on than she is.

My thought being because her Alcoholic ex-boyfriend is likely to hover her back in at some point when the shine rubs off his new supply, plus A's/narcs do like to keep a reserve as it were.

So my situation is much cleaner and final hence easier to process and deal with.

dandylion

Peaceful.....the other day, I heard Sinead O'Connor speaking on a t.v. show---she spoke so compellingly of the (mostly) hidden child abuse in the homes of her native country...and, the abuse she suffered from her own mentally ill mother. She spoke of how common it was.
PeacefulWater, I immediately thought of you and the whole time that she was talking. My heart went out to you and how glad that I am that you are peeling back those layers and shedding that damaged skin!
Peaceful....I think that you are doing a therapeutic molting....lol...lol...

velma929

Oh, it's okay. He died 11 years ago. Yes, I was conflicted, but I was conflicted living with him, too.
When I was very very young, a woman I knew commented that she loved her ex-husband, but she couldn't live with him. Being very, very young I thought that was hogwash, if you love someone, you work things out, right? (thankfully, I didn't actually say this) After years of marriage, our lives, home, and finances so entwined, I was having a hard time seeing my way clear to separating from him - and - I loved him. So thinking that divorcing people don't somehow love one another is mistaken.

I miss the man I married, but he started disappearing years before he died, is the way I looked at it. Our lives, my love for him and his for me (however imperfect those were) are part of who I am, and part of what made me the person my Current Guy fell in love with. I had friends whose relationships crashed and burned around the same time as Late AH's death. One of them had a really hard time, but she's a very social person. Being alone was much harder for her than it was for me.

PeacefulWater12

Hey Dandylion

I love it, a "therapeutic healing".

I very much agree. I can feel those layers peeling and shedding away. I am very grateful and thankful that this is happening. It means I can lead a peaceful and deeply satisfying life. When I shower, I use an exfoliating sponge with some gorgeous smelling shower gel. Each morning I feel the feeling of a deep cleansing.

As each layer comes up and out, I feel better. Far more clearer who I am. Although painful at times, I am relishing this process. The recent layers have been only very mildly painful. The deep, almost vomit like stuff seems to have stopped although if more becomes ready to be released I welcome up.

I like Sinead O'Connor. Her song Nothing Compares to You is just stunning. I played it over and over as a teen. On a vinyl record in those days. I had the 12" of it. She is Irish as is my sponsor who also suffered abuse at the hands of their mentally ill mother. Violence was very common in the home. Swept under the carpet though, of course. As I said in earlier post, so good that is now being talked about.

It's tricky with mentally ill people because yes they are ILL but their actions are still unacceptable. Being ill does not make verbal and physical attack ok.

As it is moving forward I am letting go of that ingrained thought of being "not good enough". That being such a damaging mindset to be in.

I had a nice little moment this morning, I had a text from someone saying they hadn't heard from me for quite a while and was I all right. I looked at it puzzled then realised I had, without any conscious thought, stopped phoning this person as they are so negative about everything

I looked at the text and though "oh eff off". Deleted it.

The old me would have felt obliged to phone, JADE or whatever. Today I just thought - lady I ain't wasting my time on you!

This is self care at its finest!

PeacefulWater12

On the subject of JADE'ing. Earlier this morning I was on the receiving end of it.

Interesting to experience the other side.

I was chatting to neighbour and had to ask him about an issue going on currently.

Now all I needed was a "yes, please" or "no, thanks". Very straight forward.

Off he went into a great long JADE! In amongst it all he was saying no, which was fine. However what a energy wasting, brain spinning jumble to say it.. I politely stopped him as soon as I could.

I didn't care either way, I just needed to know.

Of course I noticed it as I am in tune with these things. His wife is a abusive bully so I suppose he just automatically JADE's all the time.

Is irritating to be on receiving end, to be honest. I remember years ago, a codie relative deciding to "rescue" me, that was irritating too.

PeacefulWater12

Thanks for your reply, Velma. My husband also disappeared many years before his body died. I think the brain damage alcohol causes does that. It destroys the more humane, delicate areas.

You share that your late husband helped you become who you are, I feel the same way about mine. He was exactly the right person for me at the right time. I hope I was for him too.

PeacefulWater12

I notice on this journey of change and correcting/updating my unhealthy thought patterns and behaviours, once they are changed and embedded, it becomes impossible to repeat them.

It feels like the old program on the computer has been removed and replaced with the next version. I can't go back because the old one has gone.

Impossible because the denial and lies I was entrenched in which supported my insane codie behaviours are gone, so if I were to consider say as an example, go rushing in and getting myself a brand new shiny alkie to repeat all my old insane pattern on, I can't because I can now SEE how insane it all is.

Like they say in AA when you relapse and drink and you have a head full of recovery knowledge, it spoils the drink because you know what you are doing. These insane behaviours only work when they are in the half light and steeped in denial.

In the plain daylight, it all clearly insane and sad.

PeacefulWater12

I tell you something I am finding weird as I am so used to being with a narc/alkie.

When friends do nice little things for me or I do nice little things for them, it remains nice. Appreciated on both sides. The doer and the receiver!

With a narc/alkie whatever you do is never enough and also it soon turns sour and gets criticised! Oh yeah and plus they do sod all for you!! LOL!

I am much preferring my new way. I would put a big smilie here but I have yet to work out how to used them on this board.

PeacefulWater12

ha, worked it out!

honeypig

I think this is true in a lot of areas of life, PW. Thanks for reminding me of that.

Hawkeye13

This really hits home for me—the last time I had a relapse, my spouse and I were discussing it, and he said something like “I don’t even know why you bother to drink anymore as you don’t have fun like you used to, and in fact each time you seem more uncomfortable when you have alcohol”.

And that is so true. I cannot unsee what alcohol does to me personally, my family, and my life. I know the score and I know it is wrong action. This felt like a paradigm shift to me as that word—uncomfortable—really kicked in and I knew what had been largely unconscious had landed smack in the middle of my conscious self seeking recovery.

I am so happy that happened—

dandylion

Peaceful......thank you for reminding me of that saying that I had forgotten!

"Nothing spoils a buzz like a head full of AA and a belly full of beer"

Another old favorite of mine is this one about co-dependency.

"Just when it seems like all is going well----Here come Miss Co-dependency wearing a smile and a Sunday Dress"

LOL...LOL