My eyes were opened!
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This is another aspect of being a codie that I don't often see mentioned on here. Something that Joyce Meyer often speaks of in relation to her experience.
So you got a couple. A co-dependent/enabler and an alcoholic. They have children.
The children grow up feeling doubly let down. Firstly because of the drunk parent but also because the sober parent did not protect them from the alcoholic parent. Angry and hurt because the sober parent allowed the children to remain in that horrible, unsafe toxic environment.
So you got a couple. A co-dependent/enabler and an alcoholic. They have children.
The children grow up feeling doubly let down. Firstly because of the drunk parent but also because the sober parent did not protect them from the alcoholic parent. Angry and hurt because the sober parent allowed the children to remain in that horrible, unsafe toxic environment.
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Originally Posted by PeacefulWater12 
This is another aspect of being a codie that I don't often see mentioned on here. Something that Joyce Meyer often speaks of in relation to her experience.
So you got a couple. A co-dependent/enabler and an alcoholic. They have children.
The children grow up feeling doubly let down. Firstly because of the drunk parent but also because the sober parent did not protect them from the alcoholic parent. Angry and hurt because the sober parent allowed the children to remain in that horrible, unsafe toxic environment.
So you got a couple. A co-dependent/enabler and an alcoholic. They have children.
The children grow up feeling doubly let down. Firstly because of the drunk parent but also because the sober parent did not protect them from the alcoholic parent. Angry and hurt because the sober parent allowed the children to remain in that horrible, unsafe toxic environment.
And the damage is so cunning and powerful....the chaos and unpredictability of the home life...sometimes here I think we can defensively and prejudicially picture only the most squalid broken down of alcoholic homes, sometimes to differentiate we use terms like "functioning alcoholic" because the A can keep a job or present a normal face to the world at times; when the reality is, the home may be quite picture perfect (partly due to the hard work of denial by the codie parent)...the let-downs and ugly scenes may be intermittent, unpredictable, suddenly erupting with intensity or even violence, and then without ever being truly acknowledged or processed with the children, just swept under the rug as the old, often tense, tentative fake dynamic is restored... until the next crisis erupts....year after year.....UGH it's just awful.
So grateful for AlAnon and to you Peaceful Water and everyone on this forum for the unflinching, brave, curious, and honest support in unraveling these learned dynamics. (looking up Joyce Meyer right now!)
Peace,
B
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Originally Posted by Bernadette
Yes indeed.
And the damage is so cunning and powerful....the chaos and unpredictability of the home life...sometimes here I think we can defensively and prejudicially picture only the most squalid broken down of alcoholic homes, sometimes to differentiate we use terms like "functioning alcoholic" because the A can keep a job or present a normal face to the world at times; when the reality is, the home may be quite picture perfect (partly due to the hard work of denial by the codie parent)...the let-downs and ugly scenes may be intermittent, unpredictable, suddenly erupting with intensity or even violence, and then without ever being truly acknowledged or processed with the children, just swept under the rug as the old, often tense, tentative fake dynamic is restored... until the next crisis erupts....year after year.....UGH it's just awful.
So grateful for AlAnon and to you Peaceful Water and everyone on this forum for the unflinching, brave, curious, and honest support in unraveling these learned dynamics. (looking up Joyce Meyer right now!)
Peace,
B
And the damage is so cunning and powerful....the chaos and unpredictability of the home life...sometimes here I think we can defensively and prejudicially picture only the most squalid broken down of alcoholic homes, sometimes to differentiate we use terms like "functioning alcoholic" because the A can keep a job or present a normal face to the world at times; when the reality is, the home may be quite picture perfect (partly due to the hard work of denial by the codie parent)...the let-downs and ugly scenes may be intermittent, unpredictable, suddenly erupting with intensity or even violence, and then without ever being truly acknowledged or processed with the children, just swept under the rug as the old, often tense, tentative fake dynamic is restored... until the next crisis erupts....year after year.....UGH it's just awful.
So grateful for AlAnon and to you Peaceful Water and everyone on this forum for the unflinching, brave, curious, and honest support in unraveling these learned dynamics. (looking up Joyce Meyer right now!)
Peace,
B
My alcoholic father had a successful business, my mother was a teacher, our home was large and always looked good, my parents both had nice cars. So from the outside it looked lovely. Indeed it looked picture perfect. As a child, I was often told by outsiders how lucky I was. This added to my confusion, of course.
However inside the home behind closed doors, it was exactly as you describe.
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Bernadette, what an articulate, accurate and chilling description of what goes on
in an alcoholic or otherwise dysfunctional home where people are not treated with
respect, or kindness, nurtured, live in reality, or given the attention humans need
to evolve to their best.
in an alcoholic or otherwise dysfunctional home where people are not treated with
respect, or kindness, nurtured, live in reality, or given the attention humans need
to evolve to their best.
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Originally Posted by mylifeismine
Bernadette, what an articulate, accurate and chilling description of what goes on
in an alcoholic or otherwise dysfunctional home where people are not treated with
respect, or kindness, nurtured, live in reality, or given the attention humans need
to evolve to their best.
in an alcoholic or otherwise dysfunctional home where people are not treated with
respect, or kindness, nurtured, live in reality, or given the attention humans need
to evolve to their best.
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Oh goodness me! A post I read has really hit me in the face. Oh yes, this is me! I am realising.
The post being about how us codies think we are God!! Yes, that was me.
Yes, I was God, rushing in to fix other people (people who were not actually asking for help and who didn't want it, of course).
Thinking I could save/cure/rescue people. Reality being the person who needed the help and to change most was ME!
I was chatting to an elderly neighbour yesterday and he mentioned some medical problems.
I listened, empathized but said very little. It was only afterwards I realised that I had not gone galloping in on my white horse trying to "save" him! No, I had gone on about my day having minded my own business.
If he needs medical help, it is up to him and/or his adult children to seek it.
I have done this in the past, got involved in all manner of exhausting stuff that was nothing to do with me, then I ended up being a martyr and resenting it. Yet it was me and my mouth opening that got me into that spot in the first place.
This example with my neighbour is a very small issue, my usual playing God involved saving alkies, addicts etc.
I very much notice now as I look back, whenever I played God it was for people who were not asking for help at all. It was always something I decided they needed.
Very arrogant of me.
Thankful to say I no longer do this. I think before I open my mouth and I also examine any gut reactions of wanting to take action. Checking if that action is healthy or not, or even any of my business.
The post being about how us codies think we are God!! Yes, that was me.
Yes, I was God, rushing in to fix other people (people who were not actually asking for help and who didn't want it, of course).
Thinking I could save/cure/rescue people. Reality being the person who needed the help and to change most was ME!
I was chatting to an elderly neighbour yesterday and he mentioned some medical problems.
I listened, empathized but said very little. It was only afterwards I realised that I had not gone galloping in on my white horse trying to "save" him! No, I had gone on about my day having minded my own business.
If he needs medical help, it is up to him and/or his adult children to seek it.
I have done this in the past, got involved in all manner of exhausting stuff that was nothing to do with me, then I ended up being a martyr and resenting it. Yet it was me and my mouth opening that got me into that spot in the first place.
This example with my neighbour is a very small issue, my usual playing God involved saving alkies, addicts etc.
I very much notice now as I look back, whenever I played God it was for people who were not asking for help at all. It was always something I decided they needed.
Very arrogant of me.
Thankful to say I no longer do this. I think before I open my mouth and I also examine any gut reactions of wanting to take action. Checking if that action is healthy or not, or even any of my business.
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I don't even know where to start. I pop in from time to time when I crave support and inspiration--I always get it here. And today--WOW.
So, I had a few of those cravings lately because AH of 44 years is newly sober (7 months) and as a result, of course, our alkie/codie dance has changed and I haven't learned the steps yet. So I browsed the topics here and started reading the FIRST post of this thread, not catching the date. I was saying in my head, "yes! yes!" to all the comments about how the relationship is based on comfort with the sickness/addiction. I started a response about how I find that sometimes I, and my family, objectify and support AH's alcoholism, because when he's had a few drinks he's so much fun to be with until he's not (because of course, the drinking has taken him to another place, not so fun). But we all love the fun guy! The guy who jokes, who takes us with him on the ride to excitement. The guy who connects with all your vulnerable places--at all fits like a glove. Because I've always been the good girl, full of insecurities, his whisking me away to a place where I could let loose enabled me to not only have a great release but I could make him accountable for it.
Thank God I didn't hit the "post" button so quickly, because just an hour ago I realized that this thread has been about a journey in the making with profound experiences and insights noted at each turn. I am going to print out the whole thread... I have learned so much in 45 minutes of reading through ALL the posts.
Peaceful Water (I thought your name was Peaceful Warrior until I checked it), thank you for your articulate and self-aware sharing. It's always helpful for those of us who go the mile with an alcoholic, for good reasons and bad, to hear those experiences as well as the experiences of those who leave. The outcome of the people's journeys in this forum is not always separation and divorce. I few of us stay the course, even though it eats at our serenity, obscures our own growth, compromises our God-given potential, and endangers the mental and physical health of our families. We ARE not only co-dependent, but co-conspirators in the creation of a conjoined life derailed from self-actualization.
Until we're not. That's our decision. As you have noted, PW, it's a process, and sometimes it's a bolt from on high, and sometimes a slow bath into a new direction or train of thought.
PW, I'm so very sorry for your loss, yet so happy that you are are finding a new road to peace. Thank you, and all the posters for all of this insight.
So, I had a few of those cravings lately because AH of 44 years is newly sober (7 months) and as a result, of course, our alkie/codie dance has changed and I haven't learned the steps yet. So I browsed the topics here and started reading the FIRST post of this thread, not catching the date. I was saying in my head, "yes! yes!" to all the comments about how the relationship is based on comfort with the sickness/addiction. I started a response about how I find that sometimes I, and my family, objectify and support AH's alcoholism, because when he's had a few drinks he's so much fun to be with until he's not (because of course, the drinking has taken him to another place, not so fun). But we all love the fun guy! The guy who jokes, who takes us with him on the ride to excitement. The guy who connects with all your vulnerable places--at all fits like a glove. Because I've always been the good girl, full of insecurities, his whisking me away to a place where I could let loose enabled me to not only have a great release but I could make him accountable for it.
Thank God I didn't hit the "post" button so quickly, because just an hour ago I realized that this thread has been about a journey in the making with profound experiences and insights noted at each turn. I am going to print out the whole thread... I have learned so much in 45 minutes of reading through ALL the posts.
Peaceful Water (I thought your name was Peaceful Warrior until I checked it), thank you for your articulate and self-aware sharing. It's always helpful for those of us who go the mile with an alcoholic, for good reasons and bad, to hear those experiences as well as the experiences of those who leave. The outcome of the people's journeys in this forum is not always separation and divorce. I few of us stay the course, even though it eats at our serenity, obscures our own growth, compromises our God-given potential, and endangers the mental and physical health of our families. We ARE not only co-dependent, but co-conspirators in the creation of a conjoined life derailed from self-actualization.
Until we're not. That's our decision. As you have noted, PW, it's a process, and sometimes it's a bolt from on high, and sometimes a slow bath into a new direction or train of thought.
PW, I'm so very sorry for your loss, yet so happy that you are are finding a new road to peace. Thank you, and all the posters for all of this insight.
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Hello SoloMio
I am so glad my journey is resonating with you. Oh boy the dance steps. I hear you on that. Those so deeply ingrained dance steps we do together. He says this - I say that! ..... and on! Then I went and messed up that well practised dance when I quit drinking while he continued. How dare I change the music, change the dance! New steps neither of us knew. Not the comfortable old stinkie well worn ones!
My late AH did do "not drinking" for about 8 months at one time. Note I don't say "sober", I say "not drinking". Worlds apart in the meaning. I was writing in another thread just yesterday what an enormous relief it was for both he and I when he picked up again. Phew. Without his medication/whisky he was a horror! The tension was unbearable.
I could feel in the atmosphere that he was building ready to pick up again. It was almost like I could reach out and touch something solid. A suitable reason/excuse came along which he gratefully grasped and sank back into his ease and comfort of whisky. It felt like the whole house, the brickwork physically breathed out! Phew!!!!
I was literally just speaking to my sponsor before I came on here and saw your post. We were saying how it was indeed the right thing for me to do to stay with AH. Not to divorce. Had I left him, I would have in nano seconds replaced him with a clone. Or more likely got a clone lined up first before I left him.
A memory came up in me, when I left my first husband I was early 30's, I had completely forgotten that I had started recovery work at that time. I joined a 12 step group and was a little way in. A part of me must have recognised my dysfunction.
I then met my next victim/partner and the recovery work ceased immediately, and I repeated my sick codie dance again with that man. Several afterwards too.
Urgh.
As I have said before, the years with late AH gave me the time and space to do this much needed work. Not that he knew or cared what I was doing. He liked to live his life upside down so he would be awake all night drinking and sleep most of the day so I had loads of spare time to use to its fullest. I think us living on different time zones helped our marriage enormously. It also helped that I wasn't bothered about going out doing stuff together. Lots of wives would have been mightily annoyed about that but I didn't care.
I was thinking today I am a little sad he is gone. I do like it on my own though. Everything is so easy now.
Also with my sponsor today we were chatting about how being in close contact with an active or unrecovered alcoholic affects others.
The lies, manipulations, gaslighting etc an alcoholic pulls to facilitate their drinking is not personal to anyone whoever it is very impactful. I liked this description. Not personal but is impactful.
As both my sponsor and myself are recovering alcoholics as well as recovering codies we can see it from both sides.
I do have to say that when I was on the doing side of it, it far far far far less painful than when I was on the receiving side of it.
It is far less painful to lie than to be lied to.
Anyways, just a few thoughts.
I am so glad my journey is resonating with you. Oh boy the dance steps. I hear you on that. Those so deeply ingrained dance steps we do together. He says this - I say that! ..... and on! Then I went and messed up that well practised dance when I quit drinking while he continued. How dare I change the music, change the dance! New steps neither of us knew. Not the comfortable old stinkie well worn ones!
My late AH did do "not drinking" for about 8 months at one time. Note I don't say "sober", I say "not drinking". Worlds apart in the meaning. I was writing in another thread just yesterday what an enormous relief it was for both he and I when he picked up again. Phew. Without his medication/whisky he was a horror! The tension was unbearable.
I could feel in the atmosphere that he was building ready to pick up again. It was almost like I could reach out and touch something solid. A suitable reason/excuse came along which he gratefully grasped and sank back into his ease and comfort of whisky. It felt like the whole house, the brickwork physically breathed out! Phew!!!!
I was literally just speaking to my sponsor before I came on here and saw your post. We were saying how it was indeed the right thing for me to do to stay with AH. Not to divorce. Had I left him, I would have in nano seconds replaced him with a clone. Or more likely got a clone lined up first before I left him.
A memory came up in me, when I left my first husband I was early 30's, I had completely forgotten that I had started recovery work at that time. I joined a 12 step group and was a little way in. A part of me must have recognised my dysfunction.
I then met my next victim/partner and the recovery work ceased immediately, and I repeated my sick codie dance again with that man. Several afterwards too.
Urgh.
As I have said before, the years with late AH gave me the time and space to do this much needed work. Not that he knew or cared what I was doing. He liked to live his life upside down so he would be awake all night drinking and sleep most of the day so I had loads of spare time to use to its fullest. I think us living on different time zones helped our marriage enormously. It also helped that I wasn't bothered about going out doing stuff together. Lots of wives would have been mightily annoyed about that but I didn't care.
I was thinking today I am a little sad he is gone. I do like it on my own though. Everything is so easy now.
Also with my sponsor today we were chatting about how being in close contact with an active or unrecovered alcoholic affects others.
The lies, manipulations, gaslighting etc an alcoholic pulls to facilitate their drinking is not personal to anyone whoever it is very impactful. I liked this description. Not personal but is impactful.
As both my sponsor and myself are recovering alcoholics as well as recovering codies we can see it from both sides.
I do have to say that when I was on the doing side of it, it far far far far less painful than when I was on the receiving side of it.
It is far less painful to lie than to be lied to.
Anyways, just a few thoughts.
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PeacefulWater, you said, "The lies, manipulations, gaslighting etc an alcoholic pulls to facilitate their drinking is not personal to anyone whoever it is very impactful. ... Not personal but is impactful. ...I do have to say that when I was on the doing side of it, it far far far far less painful than when I was on the receiving side of it. It is far less painful to lie than to be lied to."
Thank you for recognizing the pain of -- and the other impacts on -- the friends and family of the Q. I read something on another forum the other day and it really kind of upset/triggered me because it showed total ignorance of the impact on us. The original post was by a young alcoholic adult who had promised to do something for his mother (take her to get her car at a shop). He drank instead of helping his mom and totally blew his mom off, not calling her or texting her or anything. His mom texts the next day and says what he did was extremely disrespectful and that she is very hurt. She repeats that it was extremely disrespectful. The young adult posts a screenshot of the text string between him and his mom to get the forum's feedback, saying something like, "Doesn't she realize how hard it is for me" and then everyone (my guess is other young adult alcoholics on the forum) chime in, saying the Mom never should have said she was disrespected or hurt, that she is not being supportive of her son, that she doesn't have his back, too bad for the young adult that his family doesn't love him, and so on.
Oh, man, did I know where the Mom was coming from. Respect is huge for me. I try so hard to respect absolutely everyone in my life. I'm respectful of my colleagues, my students, my neighbors, my friends, etc. If I have a meeting or an event or a lunch date, I make it. If I can't make it, I call or text ahead and explain the (truthful) reason I can't make it, sincerely apologize, and set up another date. I've never blown someone off in my life.
I agree with the Mom that her son's behavior is disrespectful. What broke my heart the most with my Q is how he repeatedly blew me off -- just disrespecting me and my time and my care left and right. I was so disrespected. That hurt the most. Everything else hurt a lot less. I was so impacted. But to him it was nothing.
But the reason I'm so sensitive to the young adult's post is that I had my Q's back for months and months. I gave him a billion chances. I WAS more supportive than anyone else could possibly be. All I did was support him. And love him. And want him to get well. And wish him well. And all I got in return was continued disrespect. And, now, per the kid (and per my Q, who is 43), I'm being unsupportive by finally giving him the respect to handle his life his own way?
We are so impacted. Yet when we need to step back from those impacts, now we are the bad ones. It's this manipulation that I can't take.
Thank you for recognizing the pain of -- and the other impacts on -- the friends and family of the Q. I read something on another forum the other day and it really kind of upset/triggered me because it showed total ignorance of the impact on us. The original post was by a young alcoholic adult who had promised to do something for his mother (take her to get her car at a shop). He drank instead of helping his mom and totally blew his mom off, not calling her or texting her or anything. His mom texts the next day and says what he did was extremely disrespectful and that she is very hurt. She repeats that it was extremely disrespectful. The young adult posts a screenshot of the text string between him and his mom to get the forum's feedback, saying something like, "Doesn't she realize how hard it is for me" and then everyone (my guess is other young adult alcoholics on the forum) chime in, saying the Mom never should have said she was disrespected or hurt, that she is not being supportive of her son, that she doesn't have his back, too bad for the young adult that his family doesn't love him, and so on.
Oh, man, did I know where the Mom was coming from. Respect is huge for me. I try so hard to respect absolutely everyone in my life. I'm respectful of my colleagues, my students, my neighbors, my friends, etc. If I have a meeting or an event or a lunch date, I make it. If I can't make it, I call or text ahead and explain the (truthful) reason I can't make it, sincerely apologize, and set up another date. I've never blown someone off in my life.
I agree with the Mom that her son's behavior is disrespectful. What broke my heart the most with my Q is how he repeatedly blew me off -- just disrespecting me and my time and my care left and right. I was so disrespected. That hurt the most. Everything else hurt a lot less. I was so impacted. But to him it was nothing.
But the reason I'm so sensitive to the young adult's post is that I had my Q's back for months and months. I gave him a billion chances. I WAS more supportive than anyone else could possibly be. All I did was support him. And love him. And want him to get well. And wish him well. And all I got in return was continued disrespect. And, now, per the kid (and per my Q, who is 43), I'm being unsupportive by finally giving him the respect to handle his life his own way?
We are so impacted. Yet when we need to step back from those impacts, now we are the bad ones. It's this manipulation that I can't take.
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Glad my share helped you, OK Runner. I have also been triggered by A's making similar comments. When the brain and body is soaked in alcohol, the person simply CANNOT see the impact of their behaviour. I think partly because of the denial system in place and partly because of the physical effects of alcohol on the brain.
When I drank I HAD to believe that my drinking was not affecting anyone but me. I HAD to. I could not let myself know it was upsetting to others. My addiction needed to continue. (I drank for about 5 years, have been sober 11. Am in my late 50's. I was teetotal for many years as I hated drinking so much having grown up in an alcoholic home. I had very distorted views on drinking. When I did start drinking, I went from one glass of wine with lunch to full blown daily alcoholic drinker very quickly).
The biggest lie we are telling is to ourselves.
Therefore we will defend this lie and also, as you point out, drag in other drinkers to support us in that lie. Bear in mind other drinkers who are doing the same crappy things are bound to support us in these crappy things.
To continue to drink we must believe the lie we are telling ourselves.
The first step of recovery is admitting to OURSELVES that we are an alcoholic.
I hope in some way this helps you, OK Runner. I found my late AH's behaviour very very hurtful at times. Even though I knew it wasn't personal to me and that it was his addiction keeping its going even though it knew it was literally killing him, which in due course it did.
Gosh the level of denial needed to shut out the knowledge that this liquid was literally killing your body day by day must be immense. The evidence in that mobility was going, the bodily weakness, the organs shutting down, speech going. The doctors stating it frequently. The huge amount of medications needed daily. Yet still the alcohol was still in charge and being poured.
He shared with me how frightened he felt if his collection of whisky dropped below a certain number of bottles. This thing that was killing him.
OK Runner, the right thing to do is step away from them. It truly is. It doesn't matter if other people outside don't get that. Us codies being kind to alkies can kill them. Seriously it can.
I drank with AH for those five years, until my mind and body could take it no more. I got sober. Worked my program. AH continued to drink. I stepped away from sitting with him for endless hours drinking and talking rubbish everyday. (We are retired) I found it boring. Well sober people would. In a funny way although AH was livid about me quitting, it helped him. Without a drinking buddy he drank far less.
Anyways just some more thoughts. Take what you want and leave the rest.
When I drank I HAD to believe that my drinking was not affecting anyone but me. I HAD to. I could not let myself know it was upsetting to others. My addiction needed to continue. (I drank for about 5 years, have been sober 11. Am in my late 50's. I was teetotal for many years as I hated drinking so much having grown up in an alcoholic home. I had very distorted views on drinking. When I did start drinking, I went from one glass of wine with lunch to full blown daily alcoholic drinker very quickly).
The biggest lie we are telling is to ourselves.
Therefore we will defend this lie and also, as you point out, drag in other drinkers to support us in that lie. Bear in mind other drinkers who are doing the same crappy things are bound to support us in these crappy things.
To continue to drink we must believe the lie we are telling ourselves.
The first step of recovery is admitting to OURSELVES that we are an alcoholic.
I hope in some way this helps you, OK Runner. I found my late AH's behaviour very very hurtful at times. Even though I knew it wasn't personal to me and that it was his addiction keeping its going even though it knew it was literally killing him, which in due course it did.
Gosh the level of denial needed to shut out the knowledge that this liquid was literally killing your body day by day must be immense. The evidence in that mobility was going, the bodily weakness, the organs shutting down, speech going. The doctors stating it frequently. The huge amount of medications needed daily. Yet still the alcohol was still in charge and being poured.
He shared with me how frightened he felt if his collection of whisky dropped below a certain number of bottles. This thing that was killing him.
OK Runner, the right thing to do is step away from them. It truly is. It doesn't matter if other people outside don't get that. Us codies being kind to alkies can kill them. Seriously it can.
I drank with AH for those five years, until my mind and body could take it no more. I got sober. Worked my program. AH continued to drink. I stepped away from sitting with him for endless hours drinking and talking rubbish everyday. (We are retired) I found it boring. Well sober people would. In a funny way although AH was livid about me quitting, it helped him. Without a drinking buddy he drank far less.
Anyways just some more thoughts. Take what you want and leave the rest.
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Your understanding of yourself and your situation is very insightful.
And I so understand the fact that your husband became another ‘addiction’ for you in that preoccupation with him saved you from having to build a healthy life for yourself.
I lived with an addict who was ‘worse’ than myself and I still remember the subconscious reason I was in that relationship which was that I got to feel superior to somebody and that massaged my ego. It sounds like your aware of a similar motif in your life.
Best of luck to you (and your husband) and I’m looking forward to future posts of yours.
And I so understand the fact that your husband became another ‘addiction’ for you in that preoccupation with him saved you from having to build a healthy life for yourself.
I lived with an addict who was ‘worse’ than myself and I still remember the subconscious reason I was in that relationship which was that I got to feel superior to somebody and that massaged my ego. It sounds like your aware of a similar motif in your life.
Best of luck to you (and your husband) and I’m looking forward to future posts of yours.
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PeacefulWater, thank you so much for your insight and your sharing. I take it all and leave none. Always. I am grateful for your support and time.
You and the others on this Forum are the only ones who have encouraged me to, and subsequently not judged me for, not responding to him anymore. Detaching form my Q has been brutal for me, as I now can see that my co-dependency was as strong as his alcoholism. But even greater than my co-dependency was my daily (hourly?) heartache, pain, sadness, humiliation, embarrassment, and overwhelming hurt from being treated like nothing; from being treated like a disposable waste bag; from being treated like neglected trash. Thank you for your support and for helping me not feel so alone on this journey forward.
You and the others on this Forum are the only ones who have encouraged me to, and subsequently not judged me for, not responding to him anymore. Detaching form my Q has been brutal for me, as I now can see that my co-dependency was as strong as his alcoholism. But even greater than my co-dependency was my daily (hourly?) heartache, pain, sadness, humiliation, embarrassment, and overwhelming hurt from being treated like nothing; from being treated like a disposable waste bag; from being treated like neglected trash. Thank you for your support and for helping me not feel so alone on this journey forward.
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Originally Posted by enaiddes
Your understanding of yourself and your situation is very insightful.
And I so understand the fact that your husband became another ‘addiction’ for you in that preoccupation with him saved you from having to build a healthy life for yourself.
I lived with an addict who was ‘worse’ than myself and I still remember the subconscious reason I was in that relationship which was that I got to feel superior to somebody and that massaged my ego. It sounds like your aware of a similar motif in your life.
Best of luck to you (and your husband) and I’m looking forward to future posts of yours.
And I so understand the fact that your husband became another ‘addiction’ for you in that preoccupation with him saved you from having to build a healthy life for yourself.
I lived with an addict who was ‘worse’ than myself and I still remember the subconscious reason I was in that relationship which was that I got to feel superior to somebody and that massaged my ego. It sounds like your aware of a similar motif in your life.
Best of luck to you (and your husband) and I’m looking forward to future posts of yours.
My AH died in March so I am now building myself a new life.
A memory popped up in that when late AH and I drank together, I actually drank a lot more than him. Also I drank very quickly, whereas he was a sipper. I slammed it down fast on an empty stomach (which gave extra "buzz"). I used to urge him to keep up with me. When I quit, a side benefit was that he drank far less as he didn't have me constantly topping his glass up and bugging him to "drink up"!
I was an alkie that went for a fast buzz, whereas late AH was an alkie that liked to reach a certain level of alcohol in his body then just keep it at that level by topping it up steadily. His goal was ease and comfort in his mind and body whereas mine was to get a buzz.
I do recall though that he very much liked that I was a "worse" drinker than him.
Ah well, it was all crazy. Glad don't have to do that anymore. It was very hard work.
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Originally Posted by OKRunner
PeacefulWater, thank you so much for your insight and your sharing. I take it all and leave none. Always. I am grateful for your support and time.
You and the others on this Forum are the only ones who have encouraged me to, and subsequently not judged me for, not responding to him anymore. Detaching form my Q has been brutal for me, as I now can see that my co-dependency was as strong as his alcoholism. But even greater than my co-dependency was my daily (hourly?) heartache, pain, sadness, humiliation, embarrassment, and overwhelming hurt from being treated like nothing; from being treated like a disposable waste bag; from being treated like neglected trash. Thank you for your support and for helping me not feel so alone on this journey forward.
You and the others on this Forum are the only ones who have encouraged me to, and subsequently not judged me for, not responding to him anymore. Detaching form my Q has been brutal for me, as I now can see that my co-dependency was as strong as his alcoholism. But even greater than my co-dependency was my daily (hourly?) heartache, pain, sadness, humiliation, embarrassment, and overwhelming hurt from being treated like nothing; from being treated like a disposable waste bag; from being treated like neglected trash. Thank you for your support and for helping me not feel so alone on this journey forward.
Glad you are here and we are walking this path together.
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An observation - normal people don't lie!! Wow,did you know that? I am stunned to be noticing this.
Also - they give straight answers to questions. They are not deliberately vague as they are working an angle to get something out of you.
They don't twist your words and try and blame everything on you either!!
Did you know that too??
Wow, crikey!
I am saying this with a laugh and a smile. I am discovering "normal" people! Who knew. Haha. I like 'em. They are easy to be around.
Have a good day all.
Also - they give straight answers to questions. They are not deliberately vague as they are working an angle to get something out of you.
They don't twist your words and try and blame everything on you either!!
Did you know that too??
Wow, crikey!
I am saying this with a laugh and a smile. I am discovering "normal" people! Who knew. Haha. I like 'em. They are easy to be around.
Have a good day all.
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Originally Posted by PeacefulWater12
late AH was an alkie that liked to reach a certain level of alcohol in his body then just keep it at that level by topping it up steadily. His goal was ease and comfort in his mind and body
He retired not quite 2 years ago, and again, I thought "well, now that he doesn't have to go to work or, really, have ANY commitments any more, he'll just drink nonstop and things will get bad." Nope, that hasn't happened either, and I think the reason is exactly what you mentioned above. He wasn't limiting or controlling his drinking b/c he needed to appear sober to me, b/c he needed to be able to go to work in the AM, or for any other reason. He was drinking to a certain level of anesthesia, where nothing bothered him, and once there, he just maintained.
How much he drank was all about him and what he needed, and even though I thought my presence had some effect, it truly, truly had none at all. That saying about me not Causing, Controlling or Curing the drinking was accurate in a much deeper sense than I originally understood.
The more that time goes by, the more I understand about the years we spent together. In the earliest days after we split, I tried to forgive b/c I'd been told this was the only way to set myself free. I went through the motions, hoping for the best, but there was so much anger and pain blocking the way that I'm not sure I made much progress.
What I'm seeing now, years after those initial attempts, is the slow growth of real forgiveness now that the anger and pain have receded. It has taken time and the clarity that comes with time and distance. I needed to have more life experience, experience of the wider world, not the narrow one we lived in with our dysfunctions. It's a practice, a process, and it seems it will be ongoing for a long time, maybe always.
I'm grateful for SR and for threads like this where I can think out loud to people who understand. Sometimes just the act of typing out my thoughts really helps me clarify and dig deeper. I appreciate what you've all shared here.
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Thank you so much for your thoughts, Honey Pig
"He was drinking to a certain level of anesthesia, where nothing bothered him, and once there, he just maintained."
I quote a sentence you shared, yes indeed that is spot on for how my hubby drank too. You word it far better than I did. anesthesia is an excellent description. To get to a place where nothing bothered him. AH could have chosen to drink a lot more, the whisky was always here, he had the free time, no commitments yet he choose to keep at that certain level.
As I shared,once I had quit drinking and therefore stopped pushing him to keep up with me, he was free to settle into the drinking pattern he wanted and that was what he did for about ten years until he passed.
I was reflecting on this with a view to understanding my own drinking, which as I mentioned was very different to his. I started drinking alcohol when we got together. Prior to that I was a sugar binge eater. I just switched. Both addictions are basically the same and are inter changeable as are most addictions. This is why I see mention on here of when people quit booze, they just replace it with something else, maybe sexual cheating or gambling etc. The person is not sober, they have merely changed the object/substance they are using.
For me both with sugar binge and with alcohol drinking it was fast, slamming it down, keep going until it was ALL gone! All of it gone!
H used to happily keep about 6 bottles in the cupboard, I would not have been able to do that, I would have had to keep going. He found great comfort in all those bottles being there. Lined up neatly. As mentioned before if he didn't have this nice sized stash, he would get anxious.
I am just thinking out loud here really, hopefully helping others along my way with my experiences.
I am feeling very calm and peaceful today. A gentle sadness about hubby but moving forward. Bringing new things in to my life, building new habits, updating things. There is no rush. Slowly does it. Taking it slowly is right for me. I have a blank canvas now. Wow, I can create whatever I want. What an amazing thought. I can see the world, my world, is a far wider place than I had been living in.
Some gentle tears as I am writing, peaceful, gentle ones.
Being able to cry is such a gift. Growing up in a dysfunctional, alcoholic home I was taught that I was not allowed to cry as my emotions were inconvenient to the alcoholic and codie running the household. Kids were not allowed their own emotions, they had to match how the drunk & codie were play acting in the particular part of their abuse cycle they were in at that time.
To have and to own my own emotions is wonderful.
I was chatting on the phone to my friend show is also an ACoA and she was saying the same. That it took her a long time to recognise how she was feeling as she was so used to someone else being in charge of how she felt. Her drunk dad. She then went from drunk dad to drunk husband.
Drunks are so BIG, aren't they? Do you know what I mean? They kind of eat everything up and dominate everything. Take over. Suck all the air out of everything.
Yet the strange thing in, inside they are full of fear, they are tiny frightened children, scared to death of every thing. Full of anxiety and fear. Driven by fear. Bullies are always afraid inside.
I don't feel afraid, I am safe and secure. I am happily drawing up some lovely goals, what I want to do. I have a few little ideas germinating.
Gosh writing all of this feel vulnerable but that is ok.
Have a good day, all.
"He was drinking to a certain level of anesthesia, where nothing bothered him, and once there, he just maintained."
I quote a sentence you shared, yes indeed that is spot on for how my hubby drank too. You word it far better than I did. anesthesia is an excellent description. To get to a place where nothing bothered him. AH could have chosen to drink a lot more, the whisky was always here, he had the free time, no commitments yet he choose to keep at that certain level.
As I shared,once I had quit drinking and therefore stopped pushing him to keep up with me, he was free to settle into the drinking pattern he wanted and that was what he did for about ten years until he passed.
I was reflecting on this with a view to understanding my own drinking, which as I mentioned was very different to his. I started drinking alcohol when we got together. Prior to that I was a sugar binge eater. I just switched. Both addictions are basically the same and are inter changeable as are most addictions. This is why I see mention on here of when people quit booze, they just replace it with something else, maybe sexual cheating or gambling etc. The person is not sober, they have merely changed the object/substance they are using.
For me both with sugar binge and with alcohol drinking it was fast, slamming it down, keep going until it was ALL gone! All of it gone!
H used to happily keep about 6 bottles in the cupboard, I would not have been able to do that, I would have had to keep going. He found great comfort in all those bottles being there. Lined up neatly. As mentioned before if he didn't have this nice sized stash, he would get anxious.
I am just thinking out loud here really, hopefully helping others along my way with my experiences.
I am feeling very calm and peaceful today. A gentle sadness about hubby but moving forward. Bringing new things in to my life, building new habits, updating things. There is no rush. Slowly does it. Taking it slowly is right for me. I have a blank canvas now. Wow, I can create whatever I want. What an amazing thought. I can see the world, my world, is a far wider place than I had been living in.
Some gentle tears as I am writing, peaceful, gentle ones.
Being able to cry is such a gift. Growing up in a dysfunctional, alcoholic home I was taught that I was not allowed to cry as my emotions were inconvenient to the alcoholic and codie running the household. Kids were not allowed their own emotions, they had to match how the drunk & codie were play acting in the particular part of their abuse cycle they were in at that time.
To have and to own my own emotions is wonderful.
I was chatting on the phone to my friend show is also an ACoA and she was saying the same. That it took her a long time to recognise how she was feeling as she was so used to someone else being in charge of how she felt. Her drunk dad. She then went from drunk dad to drunk husband.
Drunks are so BIG, aren't they? Do you know what I mean? They kind of eat everything up and dominate everything. Take over. Suck all the air out of everything.
Yet the strange thing in, inside they are full of fear, they are tiny frightened children, scared to death of every thing. Full of anxiety and fear. Driven by fear. Bullies are always afraid inside.
I don't feel afraid, I am safe and secure. I am happily drawing up some lovely goals, what I want to do. I have a few little ideas germinating.
Gosh writing all of this feel vulnerable but that is ok.
Have a good day, all.
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Thread closed. Please see link for new thread. Thanks, all
My eyes were opened! Part 2 - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information (My eyes were opened! Part 2)
My eyes were opened! Part 2 - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information (My eyes were opened! Part 2)
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